Western “Thinking” on Nuclear Weapons

Via Automatic Earth

My good friend Wayne brings up some interesting questions about weapons, in the view of the current Ukraine conflict. Are nuclear weapons the most terrifying ones we know? Or have hypersonic precision weapons taken that “crown”? The answer is not all that obvious.

There is a persistent rumor that sometime in March, Russia hit a secret NATO base deep underground near Kiev with a hypersonic Kinzhal missile and took out some 300 people, including a bunch of high-placed NATO commanders. I have neither seen this confirmed nor, perhaps more importantly, denied. But Russia has no reason to boast about it, and the US has even less reason to acknowledge it happened.

What we do know is that US/NATO (or even China) doesn’t have these weapons, and Russia does. And that, from what I’ve read, partly has to do with the fact that since the missiles move at speeds of up to Mach 15 (15x speed of sound), they need a special heat resistant coating that only Russia has been able to develop. Moreover, these hypersonic missiles are not just much faster than any other missile, they are also far better at hitting precision targets. Try hitting a bunker 60 meters or more underground.

Here’s Wayne for some philosophy:

Wayne Hall:

The 1980s were the decade of the Non-aligned Anti-Nuclear Weapons Movement. The Non-aligned movement’s political line differed from that of the Communist-Party controlled anti-nuclear movements, which took their lead from Soviet diplomacy. The Non-aligned current had some party-political cover from Eurocommunist parties. It said “there are no good and bad nuclear weapons”. Implication: Soviet nuclear weapons are bad. To be consistent the movement should have called for Soviet nuclear disarmament when the USSR disintegrated, particularly because it was not clear at first whether Yeltsin would be better or worse than Gorbachev. Some of us did indeed call for unilateral Soviet nuclear disarmament.

NATO policy was for removal of Soviet nuclear weapons from Kazakhstan, Belarus and Ukraine. But not from Russia. Why not from Russia? Well, for a start, that would mean abolition of the Russian nuclear bogy. What justification could there then be for NATO’s nuclear weapons? The Non-Aligned Anti-Nuclear Weapons Movement was clearly confused. Why were they not raising the demand for nuclear disarmament of Russia? They had spent the nineteen eighties ridiculing ideas of “nuclear deterrence”.

Yeltsin turned out to be (or at least to appear) even more open to ideas of nuclear disarmament of Russia than Gorbachev had been. The Non-Aligned Anti-Nuclear Weapons Movement called out NATO for fraud. Even official spokespersons acknowledged that nuclear weapons were “more of political than of military utility”. In other words they were useless, except for politicians (and journalists). The Swedes had recognized the uselessness when the nuclear hawk Olof Palme changed his stripes and became an anti-nuclear activist, presiding over unilateral nuclear disarmament of Sweden.

A demand for unilateral nuclear disarmament of Russia would have been a brilliant poke in the eye for the Tory smartypants who were always jeering: “If you want unilateral nuclear disarmament, recommend it to the Soviets!” Instead of raising the demand, some anti-nuclear activists simply started pointing out to each other that the Cold War is over and this should be recognized. Others didn’t do even that.

Since March 2023, the unnecessary character of Russian nuclear weapons has been confirmed. In March a provocation was staged inside Russia (by Ukraine? By NATO?) with civilians including children being killed and injured. Putin declared that there would be retaliation, and indeed, there was, within days. A command bunker in Ukraine four hundred feet underground (too deep then for run-of-the-mill bunker-busting technology) was hit by a Russian hypersonic Kinzhal missile and hundreds of dignitaries and high-ranking NATO personnel were allegedly killed. The media were pretty silent about it. And pretty soon the gaslighting started.

If this Kinzhal strike typifies the code of ethics that Russia intends to follow in its war making, the superfluous character of Russian nuclear weapons is confirmed. Attacks on civilians are punished by attacks on the top leadership of the side that resorts to them. The media propaganda machine is now bending over backwards to scream that the Kinzhals are “nuclear capable”. So what? Is a nuclear weapon needed to wipe out political leadership in a bunker? It is said that the United States has begun testing its own hypersonic missiles but the tests so far have failed. Will this failure be the prelude to a new arms race, or to abandonment of the 20th century mode of conducting wars particularly from 1914 onwards? The twentieth century mode of mass politics and mass slaughter of civilians?

When one studies the ideas of Hitler apologists it is easy to come to the conclusion that Hitler’s key intellectual mistake was to assume that the category “white people” includes Germans. The Boers had to learn the same lesson in South Africa, I suppose. Given this and given the assumptions of “nuclear deterrence”, which is an acceptable doctrine for the white people of NATO but not for the white people of Russia unless they face the “fact” that they too require to be “deterred” from destroying all life on planet earth, WOKE notions that “only white people can be racist” become comprehensible and the Hitlerian misreadings of the Coudenhove-Kalergi prediction/recommendation(?) of a world of mulattos following the extinction of “white people”, elevatable into a praiseworthy program for the future of this world.

If racism cannot be overcome intellectually there is obviously no alternative to overcoming it, or “trying to”, biologically. Is there? It seems to me that the logic of Russia’s development of hypersonic missiles, particularly given the way they appear to be using them, is the opposite of the motives according to which nuclear weapons were initially developed: i.e. elaboration of a mass “shock and awe” effect. Hypersonic missiles apparently aim at introducing military precision: graduated retaliation, which so far has been used to retaliate for attacks on the civilians of one’s own side. But the retaliation has been strikingly disproportionate, suggesting that one is planning to really stigmatize cowardly attacks on unarmed civilians. In effect stigmatize modern mass destruction warfare.

If it is true that “the West” is behind in this hypersonic missiles technology, how is it going to respond? Through embarking on a hypersonic missiles arms race? If it does to Russia what Russia has just done to it in Ukraine, there is a widespread view that this will trigger generalized nuclear war, which “the West” claims not to want. So what would be the purpose of getting ahead in hypersonic missiles technology? Public relations? Being first for the sake of being able to say that one is first?

It is said that nuclear weapons serve political more than military purposes, but those political purposes have to do with the “shock and awe” effect, not the ability to launch a precision strike at the nerve centre of the enemy (and so trigger the nuclear war one supposedly seeks to avoid). Will “the West” think this through or will it just go ahead anyway and “try to catch up and overtake”? Is “the West” thinking coherently about nuclear weapons?

-----------------------------------------------------
It is my sincere desire to provide readers of this site with the best unbiased information available, and a forum where it can be discussed openly, as our Founders intended. But it is not easy nor inexpensive to do so, especially when those who wish to prevent us from making the truth known, attack us without mercy on all fronts on a daily basis. So each time you visit the site, I would ask that you consider the value that you receive and have received from The Burning Platform and the community of which you are a vital part. I can't do it all alone, and I need your help and support to keep it alive. Please consider contributing an amount commensurate to the value that you receive from this site and community, or even by becoming a sustaining supporter through periodic contributions. [Burning Platform LLC - PO Box 1520 Kulpsville, PA 19443] or Paypal

-----------------------------------------------------
To donate via Stripe, click here.
-----------------------------------------------------
Use promo code ILMF2, and save up to 66% on all MyPillow purchases. (The Burning Platform benefits when you use this promo code.)
Click to visit the TBP Store for Great TBP Merchandise
Subscribe
Notify of
guest
33 Comments
Iggy
Iggy
April 27, 2023 10:20 am

I wish they would kinzhal the Capitol and Bidens home in Delaware.

Anthony Aaron
Anthony Aaron
  Iggy
April 27, 2023 12:18 pm

… and the WEF conferences … and the Bilderberg conferences … and the UN … and the WHO … and …

Call me Jack
Call me Jack
  Iggy
April 27, 2023 12:55 pm

As an adult,i have come to realize that i,and my family,are far,far more vulnerable to our own government;than we are to the Russians or Chinese.

CCRider
CCRider
April 27, 2023 10:29 am

Russia’s game-changing technology is proof of how valuable budgets are. Budget restraints force people to think and prioritize. You’re forced to come up with a better way. Every capable manager who ever managed multi-department entities knows this. Conversely, the U S military that gets more loot than they ask for of course produces bureaucratic blubber and poor performance. Just look at Milley and Austin for a visual of this phenomenon.

But never worry. If the Ruskies need an ass-whooping we can always fling our dress-wearing admiral at them.

m
m
  CCRider
April 27, 2023 1:10 pm

You are completely missing the central point: STEM education.

TN Patriot
TN Patriot
  m
April 27, 2023 2:23 pm

In the US, we are not allowed to push STEM because it would discriminate against POC.

CCRider
CCRider
  m
April 27, 2023 2:51 pm

Actually, I ignored it.

Harrington Richardson
Harrington Richardson
April 27, 2023 10:37 am

I like it. If our government which is currently illegitimate starts shit with Russia, Russia will try to zap Dementia Joe and his amalgamation of fuqueres while leaving we the fuquees alone and unharmed. Puts the onus and the target on those responsible where it belongs.

Klingon
Klingon
April 27, 2023 10:41 am

Good discussion. Was any seismic shock registered as an ‘earthquake’ around that time ?
Nukes are a concern, but what of other weapons ? Space weapons ? Lasers ? Who knows what the Bond villains have cooked up. Then there are the bio-labs all over the planet, like in Sudan we now learn. Nikola Tesla was said to have made a death ray of some kind and said he could bring down a building with focused sound or frequency waves.

Maybe the UFO’s / UAP’s are the next act ?

Paleocon
Paleocon
  Administrator
April 27, 2023 11:15 am

Be not afraid. Don’t fall for the narrative. The way to defeat them is not to try to follow them into their house of lies.

The way to defeat them is to ignore them, and build what works.

Build over, build under, build around.

Be not afraid.

-Sarah Hoyt

Illusions

Iggy
Iggy
  Administrator
April 27, 2023 1:31 pm

A face of a Jew Golem

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Administrator
April 27, 2023 8:33 pm

Slumming from her day job as the nurse in One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest.

Iggy
Iggy
  Anonymous
April 27, 2023 9:24 pm

Nurse rat shit lol.

JACk
JACk
  Administrator
April 28, 2023 1:08 am

The US is Babylon. Nuland is a whore of the worst kind-she sold her soul and prostituted her integrity for a dehumanizing ideology of arrogant gluttonous power consumption – an ever feeding tick sucking life from this world. She is a neo-con high-priestess. The neo-cons are a power hungry, secular, death cult. The sooner they are removed from power and influence the better for the US and the World.

Euddie
Euddie
April 27, 2023 12:57 pm

Hmm……..
And suddenly, all the politicians with Bunker Passes are as vulnerable as the pawns they had planned to sacrifice on the surface.

PRICELESS!

Klingon
Klingon
  Euddie
April 27, 2023 1:29 pm

The don’t call ’em D.U.M.B.S. for nothing …. lol

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 27, 2023 1:25 pm

Can someone explain to me what in the world that “Hitlerian” paragraph is about?

Captain Quaalude
Captain Quaalude
  Anonymous
April 28, 2023 3:09 am

No shit. I read that 3 times. It, at least, is missing a comma. Even with,
it is tortured

Klingon
Klingon
April 27, 2023 1:52 pm

A biological Benghazi ? Just great.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 27, 2023 2:21 pm

Real or disinfo ? Something going on in the Baltics.

Thread mentions under sea cables in the area.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Anonymous
April 27, 2023 11:26 pm

sniffers gonna sniff
don’t mean sheiiitttttt

Euddie
Euddie
April 27, 2023 2:53 pm

There’s just no way “hypersonic missile” is a euphemism for “extremely high powered military laser weapon system”

/s

Euddie
Euddie
  Euddie
April 28, 2023 8:20 am

Amazing how we seem to have collectively memory holed Directed Energy Weapons Systems like terrawatt and petawatt lasers.

Does anyone remember the straight line that California “wildfure” burned across a sports field?
Or the melted automobiles glass, wheels, engines?
What?
If its older than two years,
No one remembers?

Pretty sure lasers or some other DEW system started those fires.
Search:
“Paradise California Wildfire” images
In the wildfire that was “hot enough to melt aluminum and glass” it was not hot enough to melt plastic yard furniture and trash cans just feet away from melted metals and glass.

If you search through the Paradise wildfire images, you should notice one important fact:
Many to most of the trees are still intact, (only slightly scorched) in photos showing all homes burned to the ground.

How does a forest fire burn hot enough to melt aluminum and glass without burning the forest?

WilliamtheResolute
WilliamtheResolute
April 27, 2023 3:14 pm

Apparently the rats can’t hide underground anymore…this is really pushing the bastards into a corner.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 27, 2023 4:52 pm

Utter nonsense. 300 nato personnel killed, could not have been kept quiet.

Get a brian moran lmao

Euddie
Euddie
  Anonymous
April 28, 2023 8:56 am

I don’t even care if it’s true.
The idea that these coward war mongers hiding in a deep hole got taken out is the kind of Diversity Inclusion and Equity I can whole heartedly support.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 27, 2023 9:36 pm

Wait until the masses go crazy looking for the people who fuked everything up and then cook them all while hiding in a bunker. That could be the thinking. fits right in with depopulation plans.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Anonymous
April 28, 2023 12:21 am

SOYLENT GREEN ,,,,, is elected officials ?

Sold Out !

JACk
JACk
April 28, 2023 12:58 am

Or have hypersonic precision weapons taken that “crown”?

Absolutely.

Is the West thinking coherently about nuclear weapons?

No. Not at all.

In 2018 Russia publically announced posession and production of hypersonics. Russia now has three types of hypersonic missile: kinzhal, zircon, and avantgardd.

Russia has already demonstrated that these missiles have the kenetic energy to destroy deep bunkers (or silos), the speed to hit targets in less than 30 minutes – 5 to 10 minutes, and the quantity and precision to take out all US carrier groups or bombers on the ground. Russia has already demonstrated the ability to park nuclear capable/hypersonic capable submarines off the US coast.

In other words, Russia can take out the US nuclear defence triad without the US having any ability to stop the hypersonics. THEN if Russia wants it will still have its nuclear arms to use as desired. It does not matter if hypersonics are nuclear capable or not. But, they are.

So yes, the balance of power has shifted.

In 2018 USMC Gen Mattis said in response to Russia’s announcement that Russian hypersonics were a redundant waste of money. Many neo-cons think the US can win a nuclear exchange; whatever that means, it comes down to insanely stupid. Gen Mattis understood how the US nuclear triad worked. He understood the theory of mutually assured destruction (MAD). Either he was stupid or deceitful. Given my interaction with him and other senior officers and peers around him, whatever he was, it is not stupid.

Although nothing I’ve said here proves concretely Russia has sufficient numbers of hypersonics to truly shift balance of power, there is a fair amount of corroboration. The use of hypersonics in Ukraine is confirmed. Their ability to avoid Western defense system is not secret. It established. Projects by the US in 2018 was that Russia could produce 1000 hypersonic missiles a year. It has been dube years. Russia is still producing.

The specifics of the hypersonic attacks by Russia are confirmed by a NATO country senior leader, Croatian Admiral Davorin Domazet (ret.)

https://alexkrainer.substack.com/p/why-hypersonic-weapons-change-everything

Here are a few other considerations. 20% of Russia still uses out-houses vice indoor plumbing. Meaning when SHTF they can still deal with Sh*t. That same group gets water from wells. The US is no where near that level of self-sufficient. Outhouses can’t be turned off by attacks on central plumbing. Russia has a lot of resources that cannot be sanctioned. And over half the worlds population lives in Russia sympathetic countries or just pissed-off at America countries.

Many Russians can flee to the houses of the 20%. AND Russia never stopped investing in civil defense. It has shelters for more than half its people DEEP underground. No where in the West compares.

Given Russia’s 5 year capacity to produce hypersonics, it would not take many to shift the balance of power. The balance of power has shifted.

The West is analyzing Russia through a lens of farsical caricature and demagoguery that prevents honest analysis. For some reason 6 to 9 million Ukrainians found safety in Russia not the West. Over 2 million fled from Ukraine to Russia and between 4 to 7 million chose to stay in Russian controlled/annexed Oblasts. No other single country has received more Ukrainian refugees. The closest is not even half of the number received by Russia.

This, and the fact that Russia did not do to Kyiv what it did to other cities shows Russia is refraining from genocidal mania, whatever it is doing. However, decades of Russia, Russia, Russia, have conditioned a pavlovian response in most Americans and NATO members. That does not make Russia good. It makes Americans stupid. It dumbs down analysis.

Russia has shifted the balance of power. It has potentially made Western nuclear weapons obsolete while amplifying the impact of theirs. We live in a new world in more ways than one. The Petro-dollar is dead or dying. MAD is dead. Global default to US supremacy is dead or dying. Most importantly, the US did most of this to itself. The US committed political and economic suicide. God help us hold off on nuclear suicide.

Not cheery. But some times we have to fight on the terrain we have, not the terrain we hope to have.

Stay alert. We live in interesting times.
God bless

JACk
JACk
  JACk
April 28, 2023 2:57 am

Sorry! I fat-fingered the keys on my phone and lost the dual with autocorrect. Operator error:

“Projections by the US in 2018 were that Russia could produce 1000 hypersonic missiles a year. It has been five years.”