How Christianity Allowed Tyranny In America … And How Christians Can Restore Liberty

BACKGROUND

The United States of America was birthed in revolution, war, bloodshed and death. This was approved of and led by the leaders of this nation, better known as the Founding Fathers (most of whom were Christian and, if not, lived and governed by Christian principles). The citizenry in this newborn Christian nation also approved of this violent insurrection as a means to an end … Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit Of Happiness.

I use “Christian nation” in an all-inclusive sense. Meaning, Catholics and all their offshoots, Protestants and their many variant denominations, Puritans, Quakers, Deists, and so on. In other words, anyone who follows Jesus, regardless of HOW they understand it to be done. Also, this nation’s morals, laws, morays, and cultural heritage are based on those found in the Judeo-Christian worldview. It certainly isn’t based on Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, or any other religion.

I am not in the least bit interested in engaging in the ridiculous practice of being a Christ Fruit Inspector – meaning, the intellectual exercise of determining which person or group is a “real” Christian, or not. First, that task is best left to God. Second, this article will not engage in spiritual warfare – meaning, I have zero interest in how a particular Bible verse pertains to spiritual topics or the world/life after this one. I am only interested in how a particular passage affects the current world we live in, especially as it relates to politics.

[Note: For ease of navigation and searching, major sections are delineated in red caps, Founding Father quotes are green italicized, and all Scripture verses are blue italicized.)

PREMISE

Polls vary widely, but a minimum of 20% and a maximum of 40% of Americans attend some type of Judeo-Christian service WEEKLY. That’s roughly between 64 million and 128 million people listening to a sermon each and every week.

With that in mind, my minor premise is that sermons have an effect on how people live their lives, not only on a “spiritual” level, but also in our day-to-day lives including what is often erroneously referred to as “politics”.

As just one example, Jesus unequivocally commands his followers on several occasions to feed the hungry. Such a simple command. Is it mostly a spiritual command in that Jesus meant feed the poor in spirit? Is it a political command so that Democrats can justify SNAP cards? Or, are the Republicans correct that yes, we should feed the poor … but only if they work? Whatever it is, it is a command to DO something in the real world we live in.

Few, if any, of Jesus teachings involve mere intellectual ascent. A faith that is merely based on correct thinking, and not doing, is nothing but a noisy cymbal, a pie-in-the-sky theology which benefits no one. It is a “faith” which God truly hates. God heaped scorn on the very religious Pharisee who spent the day in prayer but did nothing, yet God praised the poor widow who put a penny in the offering plate!

One last observation; nowhere does Jesus even hint that it is the government, or State, which should feed the poor, ever. That responsibility is only and always that of the individual. There is nothing political about that … but modern American Christianity has abrogated so many of its individual responsibilities over to the State. One of those being the call to fight tyranny, and proclaim “Liberty!” to the captives. Where is that supposed to take place? In the next world? Of course, not! As always, the call is to fight tyranny pertains to this world, the one we live in.

As such, my first major premise is that Christianity for at least the past hundred years has been in grave error regarding the relationship between the Christian and the State. If it’s possible to summarize in just one word what the State demands it would be OBEDIENCE! While Believers in Scripture are allegorically referred to as “sheep”, the State desires it’s citizens to be that literally, and preachers in tens of thousands of churches across this land dutifully oblige. We’ll cover the church’s raison d’etat in some more detail in a moment, but Modern American Christianity (I can’t speak for other countries) servitude to the State can be summarized thusly;

—1) When Jesus said to Pilate “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting,” it means that Christians also should not be involved in this world (especially, politically) and, clearly, under no circumstances should the Believer ever practice violence against the State.

—2) When Jesus said to the soldier who came to arrest him “Don’t you realize that I could ask my Father for thousands of angels to protect us, and he would send them instantly?” and, then to Pilate “You would have no power at all over me unless it were given to you from above.”, that this means that God foreordained (from the beginning of creation) ALL earthly leadership and, that it is none of a Believer’s business to thwart the Will Of God.

–3) The Bottom Line: It doesn’t matter who is in power, even if that power is Authoritarian, Dictatorial, or Tyrannical, it is the Christian duty to not only submit to them, but to pray for them! (See video below.)

My second major premise is that the State should fear Christianity, not vice-versa. Christian teachings should act as a bulwark for all citizens, not just Christians, against all forms of tyranny. The State can only exist under the threat of force and power. Christianity gives power to the powerless. Thomas Jefferson said it best; “When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.” We MUST get back to the government fearing its people, no matter what it takes, passive or violent, if we are to ever again have a chance at life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness … as the Founding Fathers envisioned it, and as the Bible teaches.

Before we get to how we arrived to the point where Christianity tolerated tyranny, and how it is reflected in our culture, let us first take a look at some quotes from our Founding Fathers.

15 QUOTES FROM THE FOUNDING FATHERS

As you read these quotes I want you to keep in mind these two questions;

—1) “Do the Founding Fathers sound like they believe that the citizens in the Colonies should submit to the State (England)?”

—2) “If revolting against what they considered tyranny was acceptable back then, why shouldn’t it be acceptable for us, today?”

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1)— “There is a time for all things, a time to preach and a time to pray, but those times have passed away. There is a time to fight, and that time has now come!” ……… Peter Muhlenberg

2)— “If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense …. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.” ……… Alexander Hamilton

3)— “Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!” ……… Patrick Henry

4)— “Liberty is not … so much in removing all restraint from the orderly, as in imposing it on the violent.” ……… Fisher Ames

5)— “I have not yet begun to fight!” ……… John Paul Jones

6)— I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.” ……… Nathan Hale

7)— “It is necessary for every American, … to rescue and save their civil and religious rights from the outstretched arm of tyranny, which may appear under any mode or form of government.” ……… Mercy Warren

8)— “Our unalterable resolution would be to be free. They have attempted to subdue us by force, but God be praised in vain. Their arts may be more dangerous than their arms. Let us then renounce all treaty with them upon any score but that of total separation, and under God trust our cause to our swords.” ……… Samuel Adams

 9)— “This is the only form of government we wish to see established; .. an American republic ..” ……… Instructions of Malden

10)— “Resolved: That these colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent states, that they are absolved of all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved. That it is expedient forthwith to take the most effectual measures for forming foreign Alliances. That a plan of confederation be prepared and transmitted to the respective colonies for their consideration and approbation.” ……… Richard Henry Lee

11)— “Whenever any form of government becomes destructive, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government.” ……… Declaration Of Independence

12)— “Proclaim liberty throughout the land unto all the inhabitants thereof.” ……… Leviticus 25:10, also the Inscription on the Liberty Bell

13)— It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority.” ……… Benjamin Franklin

Then there is the Second Amendment issue. If the citizenry, Christians included, are to submit and obey the state, then why were the Founding Fathers so darn adamant about arming the people? (Perhaps to shoot ignorant church leaders?

14)— “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them.” ……… Richard Henry Lee

Lastly, to all you clergy out there who have made a pact with the devil with your lips locked on the State’s posterior;

15)— “In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.” ……… Thomas Jefferson

If the beliefs of Modern American Christianity existed back then, we might still be British subjects and the Founding Fathers would clearly never have signed the Declaration Of Independence on July 4, 1776 … not to mention that the Israelites would never have left Pharaoh’s Egypt, no slaves anywhere would ever receive freedom, and no subjugated people would ever even be allowed to consider throwing off the yokes of their oppressors. It is no wonder that our government has had no practical use for the Constitution for many years now. It’s just a goddamned piece of paper that’s fun to wave around every four years when campaigning.

So, why does Modern American Christianity have teachings that fly in the face of reason, and against liberty? Let’s take a look.

7 KEY BIBLE VERSES WHICH INDICATE SUBMISSION TO THE STATE

Here’s what I’m not going to do – turn this into an academic Bible study; delving deep into historical context, trying desperately to find “original” meanings, whipping out the old “original language” canard, parsing verbs, subjects, the placement of prepositions, and other such minutiae. I’ll leave that to the really smart Bible Scholars, which I am not.

Instead, I’ll take a “plain meaning”-“face value” approach. It is how millions of lay people have read, interpreted, and understood the Bible for many centuries – before really smart people started doing it for us. As such, I will be using The Living Bible – an interpretation (not a translation) that doesn’t get any plainer for English-speaking readers.

The nice thing about a face-value reading is that it really doesn’t require any commentary. ‘It is what it is’ and ‘what you see is what you get’, to use common colloquialisms. We’ll start with Romans 13 – the Holy Grail, the mother-lode for “submit to the state” sermons.

————— –

1)— “Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow. For the policeman does not frighten people who are doing right; but those doing evil will always fear him. So if you don’t want to be afraid, keep the laws and you will get along well. The policeman is sent by God to help you. But if you are doing something wrong, of course you should be afraid, for he will have you punished. He is sent by God for that very purpose. Obey the laws, then, for two reasons: first, to keep from being punished, and second, just because you know you should. Pay your taxes too, for these same two reasons. For government workers need to be paid so that they can keep on doing God’s work, serving you. Pay everyone whatever he ought to have: pay your taxes and import duties gladly, obey those over you, and give honor and respect to all those to whom it is due.” ……… Romans 13:1-7 (to which the government shouts, “Amen!!”)

What makes the above passage even more stunning — in either a good way, or bad way, depending on your point of view regarding obedience to the State – is the cultural / political background. Nero was the emperor of Rome from AD 54 to 68. Not a good man, he participated in many illicit acts, homosexual marriage being among them (not that there’s anything wrong with that. lol) . In AD 64 the great Roman fire occurred, with Nero himself being suspected of arson. The Roman senator Tacitus wrote, — “To get rid of the report [that he had started the fire], Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace.”. It was during this time that the apostle Paul wrote his epistle to the Romans. Instead of condemning this barbarity, Paul tacitly endorses it!!

2)— “Remind your people to obey the government and its officers, and always to be obedient and ready for any honest work. They must not speak evil of anyone, nor quarrel, but be gentle and truly courteous to all.” ……… Titus 3:1-2

3)— “For the Lord’s sake, obey every law of your government: those of the king as head of the state, and those of the king’s officers, for he has sent them to punish all who do wrong, and to honor those who do right. Show respect for everyone. Love Christians everywhere. Fear God and honor the government.” ……… 1 Peter 2:13-15,17

4)— “Pray in this way for kings and all others who are in authority over us, or are in places of high responsibility, so that we can live in peace and quietness, spending our time in godly living and thinking much about the Lord.” ……… 1 Timothy 2:2

5)— “Give to Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.” ……… Matthew 22:21 (Jesus actually mocks Caesar because everything belongs to God, meaning that Caesar has …… nothing!) 

6)— “Never curse the king, not even in your thoughts, nor the rich man, either; for a little bird will tell them what you’ve said.” ……… Ecclesiastes 10:20

7)— “World events are under his control. He removes kings and sets others on their thrones.” ……… Daniel 2:21

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Isn’t the first question that crosses your mind the following; “Why in the world would the Roman authorities persecute such compliant sheep??” One would think that the State would enthusiastically embrace a citizenry whose God not only demands that its followers obey all earthly authorities, but that they even pray for those authorities. Such a sheeple are what tyrants crave.

Yet, Nero hunted them down, burned them at the stake and crucified many. An analytical mind would conclude that something else is going on behind the scenes regarding Rome’s fear of this new Jewish sect called Christians. You might even start to think that what you believed about the early Christians is wrong – that they weren’t nearly as compliant to the State as Modern American Christianity wants you to believe. This will be addressed in a little more detail in the “Romans” section below.

Moreover, Rome was fairly immoral and corrupt throughout much of its history, especially when compared to Christian morays. Sepphoris, the “ornament of all Galilee,” according to Flavius Josephus, was a hill top city of 30,000 that had been selected and built up by the Romans during their occupation of Palestine in the first century BCE. It was a Roman military strategic center of commerce, government, theater and religion. The city was less than an hour’s walk (3 miles) from Jesus’ hometown of Nazareth. Oddly, the city is not mentioned in the New Testament. Nevertheless, considering it extremely close proximity to Nazareth (where Jesus lived for 30 years), it is a virtual certainty Jesus visited the city often.   It was very likely to be the city that Jesus spoke of when he said, “A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.”. We know the city was home to the elites (the “rich” of the New Testament), absentee landlords, owners of large estates, major importers/exporters, Chief Tax Collectors, high ranking Roman soldiers, and judges. We also know from the lavish frescoes, mosaics, and other archaeological artifacts that sexual depravity was rampant. In other words, Sepphoris, a Roman built city whose citizenry was comprised of both Roman Citizens and very Roman-friendly Jews, was itself a microcosm of the Roman Empire.

Jesus got to see firsthand how the other half lived; state sanctioned taxes, theft, aggression, fraud, malice, sexual depravity, gross materialism, oppression of the poor, and idolatry have all been verified via ancient texts found at or near the site. In other words, that place was just like Washington DC.

It is exceedingly difficult, logically flawed, and philosophically abhorrent for me to believe that either Jesus or the Apostles would condone/teach submission to the Roman State, especially after witnessing the corruption and debauchery up close and personal. That would be a Bizzaro-Edorsement which embraces the opposite of everything Jesus stood for and taught elsewhere in the Gospels.  Taken to its extreme conclusion, submission to the State would involve the utterly disgusting picture below.

Jesus and the Nazi
Would the Apostle Paul approve of this??

 

Anyway, what are we to make of these verses? First of all, let us not minimalize, sugarcoat, or try to explain them away as irrelevant, misunderstood, or taken out of context. These verses are powerful words in their simplicity which surely do indicate that Christians are to submit to all kinds of authority … including to those who rule over us here on earth.

More germane to this discussion is not the interpretation of these verses but, rather, in their application to our lives by church leaders. In that vein, let’s look at a typical application by a pastor who has authored more than fifty books (emphasis in the quote below are his);

“There can be NO power, of ANY government, except what God allows. This passage is instruction to us in our INDIVIDUAL PERSONAL LIFE! And our people indeed are a law-abiding, patriotic people. The Christian’s responsibility does not end with mere obedience to government authority. Paul actually tells us to pray for those in authority [even if they do evil]”  

The author of that quote goes on to say that since no ruler can be put in place unless God wills it, then that means that God has selected winners “in advance”. Therefore, any attempt to remove such a leader, even by the peaceable method of voting, means that the Christian is choosing to “fight God’s purpose!”. He draws this conclusion from Acts 5:39But if it is of God, you will not be able to stop them, lest you find yourselves fighting even against God.”.    

Don’t think the above quote is an outlier. I logged on to the main websites of over thirty major Christian denominations and they all follow the same basic three step formula; 1) God controls everything, including human affairs, 2) God appoints earthly leaders, 3) Therefore, we are to submit to them and even pray for them, whether they do good, or evil.

This level of obedience – without conditions attached – was eventually used by Christian preachers to urge their flock towards blind obedience. The consequences thereof have been devastating. Blind obedience led to acceptance of the State, acceptance led to reverence, and reverence eventually became defacto State worship.   What the pastor above is ultimately doing, and tens of thousands like him across this land, is equating disobedience to the State with disobedience to God. That, my friends, is a lie from the pits of Hell itself because it adds to Scripture something that is not there … a favorite tactic employed by the enemy of our souls.

The result of all this Christian obeying & submitting is totally unexpected, and in some regards, bizarre. You would think the State would embrace and protect such compliant folks. Nothing could be further from the truth! One political party in this country openly mocks Christians, especially the devout ones whom they tag with the derogatory label ‘right wing fundamentalists”. Liberals and certain MSM television stations froth at the mouth at the mere mention of “Christianity”. The DHS regards Christians as potential terrorists. The highly regarded theologian Francis Schaeffer concurs; — “If we as Christians do not speak out as authoritarian governments grow from within or come from outside, eventually we or our children will be the enemy of society and the state.”.   Lesson learned: when you sleep with the devil, he will charge you a price you can never repay.

But, there are almost always at least two sides of any Scriptural teaching. We’ll take a peek at the other side of the coin below. But, first, let’s take a quick look at how America became the 21st century version of the Golden Calf.

 WHEN JESUS BECAME AN AMERICAN

[Disclaimer: I do not hate the military. I served in the USAF for four years during the Vietnam era (I was never deployed there). I believe this country should have a strong military. The world is a bad place with bad human leaders, and we have the duty and obligation to protect our land and loved ones. What I hate is how the State is using our Armed Forces … not for defense, but for offense. We have become the most aggressive nation on earth. “Bomb ‘em” is our first option in diplomacy. This should be surprising considering our Commander-In-Chief is a Nobel Peace Prize winner. If he had any integrity he would return it.]

You don’t need to look any further in uncovering the Americanization of Jesus than the Word Of God, albeit repackaged as “The Patriot Bible” and “The Military Bible”.

The American Patriot’s Bible (APB) is edited by Richard G. Lee, a former president of the Pastors’ Conference of the Southern Baptist Convention, and currently a trustee at Liberty University and Liberty School of Law and a board member of the National Religious Broadcasters. The Bible is published by Thomas Nelson Publishers. A more accurate title would have been “America’s Warmonger Bible” as it is filled with nationalistic violence and promotes idolatry.

The APB consists of hundreds of commentaries randomly appearing all over the place on various patriotic themes — national monuments, State symbols, stars and stripes, armed soldiers, bombers, battleships, etc., and extensive commentaries on America’s wars and glorious victories against always, of course, the forces of evil. Each Gospel opens with a picture that includes soldiers struggling to raise a flag under the words ‘In God We Trust’. Throughout history nations and tribes have assumed that its military victories were clear evidence of Divine Favor. This is pure idolatry at its finest. Pagan religions are filled with stories of victorious soldiers giving credit to whatever warrior God they worship. The APB also has a warrior god – he goes by the name of “Jesus” and His Story (history) is interwoven into the biblical narrative which then becomes the Gospel According To America. George Washington (who is actually called ‘The American Moses’) replaces Jesus as the one we’re to emulate and the Kingdom of America replaces the Kingdom of God as the kingdom we’re to persevere for. You can read a wonderfully scathing review about the APB by Laurence Vance here; http://archive.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance209.html

In the house of God ….. chanting “USA! USA! USA!” ….. while an American bald eagle flies around ….. then crashes into a window. My God, what have we become??!!

The abomination enters a new gear with the addition of the various Military Bibles (a different one for each armed service). Laurence Vance has this to say about filling young men’s minds with mush via Military Bibles;

“Military Bibles corrupt the word of God …. are designed to sooth the conscience of Christians in the military … ignore real military values … blaspheme God … contain lies about the Bible and the military … make false insinuations and connections … attempt to sanctify war … mask the true nature of the military … promote war criminals … misapply Scripture … are filled with military propaganda.”   You can read the rest of is wonderfully scathing review here;  https://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/10/laurence-m-vance/official-blasphemy/

I’ve engaged in debates regarding whether or not the US Military will fire upon its citizens if (or, when) ordered to do so. Some folks think I’m nuts for believing that they will, and offer up all kinds for arguments in support; from Oathkeeper type organizations to an adamant belief the most of the military is comprised of good men who will not blindly “follow orders”. Such logic makes no sense to me. These folks should get their hands on a military Bible. The State has already conditioned these men to follow the State’s orders to perfection … and now the State convinces these order-following-soldiers that they are doing the will of both the State AND GOD for the betterment of mankind! Do you think they won’t shoot whomever they are commanded to shoot? This is most illogical. Maybe 5% or even 10% will still have an independent conscience but, unfortunately, most won’t win the Battle for their Minds.

demotivational poster BLESS THE SOLDIER...

Does this soldier understand that she is a pawn of the State? Or, did the State convince her that she’s doing God’s work, protecting this country (against no enemy who can breach our shores). Will this soldier pray for the innocent civilians in the countries Americans had invaded, who were killed, maimed, and tortured? Will this soldier pray for the widows and orphans America created? Will she pray for the homeless, the refuges? She might pray for the leaders who sent her there but, will she pray for whom Jesus said she should pray …. her enemies. Does she pray that her aim is true, that her bullet find its mark …. and then will she wonder if God is in heaven clapping for what she just did, or if he’s crying ? If she kills a fellow Christian, even if he is an enemy, isn’t that like killing God all over again? (“Inasmuch as you have done it to the least of these my brethren, you have done it to ME” — Matt. 25:40)

Here’s my point. The State knows full well that when Nationalism and religious zeal are fused together then virtually nothing will be impossible for them to do. It is what enables USA!USA!USA! drones to bomb Pakistani wedding parties without fear of reprisal from its citizens. In fact, if you’re one of the minority criticizing American bombings, you’ll be shouted down; “America hater!”, “Muslim lover!”, and you’ll be encouraged to leave this country pronto, and some will even wish you dead. Such is the power of American propaganda brought to you by their Official Outreach Program; CNN, Fox, and MSNBC.

But, that’s a two-edged sword. Religious zeal can also be turned against the State with equal effectiveness — which is exactly what I hope this article eventually accomplishes in your life.

 

GOD, FAMILY, COUNTRY

God, family, country!” Isn’t that the correct order (assuming you believe in God)? Not according to one of the most war-mongering anti-Christian newspapers in America, the Washington (com)Post;

The order … ‘God, Family, Country’ comprises a bewildering conflation of priorities, recklessly emphasizing the personal over the civic … the assumption [being] that one enters public service not to uphold the constitution, not to defend the nation, not to enrich the lives of citizens, but to honor God. …. those Americans [who put God first in the list] perhaps ought not run for high office.” ———– (I refuse to provide a link to that filthy rag)

If you are a Christian then this attitude should fill you with rage. Look, I am not suggesting that the USA should become a theocratic state (a horrible idea) or, that we should abandon the principle of separation between church and State (a wonderful idea). Putting God first in your life simply means that you live your life according to principles and morality that is above that which the State can offer. This is because States have no moral compass, as they are a law unto themselves. It is the State’s “morals” which puts a man in prison for ten years for stealing a case of beer, while allowing a banker to steal billions while getting his picture on the cover of Time as a paradigm of virtue and good leadership. Anathema!

George Washington and more than a few other Founding Fathers put God first (as described above) in their dealings with men and in governing, and it worked out just fine. It seems that all government, regardless of their initial good intentions, eventually devolve into tyranny, despotism, or authoritarianism. For it is true amongst the human species that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. While it is true that power corrupts also in theocratic circles, nevertheless, putting God first in the context described herein is still the best safeguard we have to keep the State from becoming God.

Unfortunately, we have crossed that Rubicon. Family –you can revolt against them, divorce your spouse, abandon your children, and tear apart the fabric of society all with the State’s blessing. God — you can revolt against Him, mock Him, abandon Him completely and even place a crucified Christ upside down in a jar of piss and get thousands of dollars from the State for such a “work of art”! But, revolt against the State? Never!! Even writing or thinking about it will insure that you’ll be placed on some DHS Watch List branded as a possible home-grown terrorist. And God help your wretched soul if you actually participate in an act of revolution, even if it’s just a nonviolent act of civil disobedience. The lucky ones are hauled off to jail, while the unlucky ones die for “resisting arrest” or, some other trumped up lie. That’s because while the State breeds and even foments dissension amongst its own citizens, it cannot ever tolerate dissension against itself. Such is life, and you shouldn’t be surprised by it, when you elevate the State above God. I’m fairly certain that Jesus, and later, the Apostles taught that any Christian – American or otherwise – should have allegiance first and foremost to God, and whatever is left over, (maybe) to country —- for Jesus made it quite clear that you can never, ever, serve two masters. A Christian will place Jesus before Caesar, and I have a sneaking suspicion that’s why the State secretly hates us.

SO, WHY DID THE ROMANS REALLY KILL CHRISTIANS?

The Caesars simply would not kill people under their rule if they were like Modern American Christians … totally compliant in obedience to the State to the point of even praying for them! Some other set of circumstances must have preceded the killings. In the first three centuries (until Constantine made Christianity the State religion) the church endured regular but, not constant, persecution at the hands of Roman authorities, some it fierce while at other times more benign and local. Let’s take a look at the minor reasons, and then The Biggie.

1)- Romans viewed Christianity as a superstition. Writing in 110AD, Pliny, a Roman governor called Christianity a “superstition taken to extravagant lengths.” For the Romans “superstition” was reserved for something foreign and different. Religious beliefs which could be shown to be old and in line with ancient customs were tolerated, while new and innovative teachings, such as Christianity, were regarded with distrust.

2) That’s why the Romans didn’t persecute Jews for their religious beliefs … it was an old and established religion. What the Romans did not tolerate was political insurrection against Rome, which the Jews engaged in vigorously on several occasions, and for which they paid dearly.

3) Romans were generally tolerant of other religions. They occupied huge portions of Europe, Northern Africa, and the Middle East and, so, came in contact with very many religions. Had the Romans persecuted religions just because they were different than Rome’s gods, then hardly any people would have been left to rule. Rome itself was polytheistic, so adding another bevy of gods to the pot wasn’t a big deal. What Rome did not like were religions that were vastly different than their own. Polytheistic religions are tolerant of other gods, the more the merrier, while monotheistic religions are by nature intolerant of other deities. Rome did not like this aspect of Christianity.

4) In fact, Rome considered Christians to be atheists because Christians refused to worship the gods of Rome.

5) Rome had a problem with what Christians did. They believed Christians were just plain weird with their religious practices; worshipping a criminal, eating his body, drinking his blood, and greeting each other with a kiss. These activities often brought charges of cannibalism and incest.

6) Rome also had a problem with what Christians did not do. Pagan holidays and festivities played a huge role in Roman society. But, Christians kept to themselves and did not participate in these rituals. Naturally, they were considered anti-social. Christians also tended to worship in secret places which just added more fuel to the fire. They became associated with ‘collegia’ (secret societies). Roman authorities became highly suspicious of such meetings believing that Christians plotted sedition. Lastly, the pagan festivities were meant to placate the gods; to bring rain, to get a bountiful harvest, to protect them from natural disasters, and so forth. When the rains did not come, and famine came, or an earthquake destroyed a city then the Christians were blamed since they did not appease the gods earlier.

THE BIGGIE.

You must understand that religion in Rome was first and foremost a social activity, the purpose of which was to promote unity and loyalty to the State. It was a religious attitude which the Romans called pietas, or piety.

Cicero felt Rome would fall without piety when he wrote – “pay a strict regard to justice and piety; the influence of which, towards parents and relations is great indeed, but that to our country greatest of all.” Then, in the third century, the philosopher Porphyry wrote: — “How can people not be in every way impious and atheistic who have apostatized from the customs of our ancestors through which every nation and city is sustained? .What else are they than fighters against God?”

In other words, the disdain for Christianity held by Cicero and Porphyry arose from the belief that proper “piety” to the Roman gods was necessary to sustain the well-being of Rome itself. Romans in every strata of society believed that bad things happened if their gods were not respected and worshiped properly. And that brings us closer to answering the question why Rome persecuted Christians.

Despite all the problems the Romans had with the Christian religion, all would have been forgiven if the Christians did just one thing. All the Christians had to do was to offer sacrifice or make other offerings for the health of the Emperor and the safety of the Empire. Do that, and the Romans basically leave you alone.

The bottom line is this; Christians would not allow Rome to determine the object of their loyalty. Orthodoxy, or what you believe, is most important to Modern American Christianity. In that sense an early Christian could have easily believed in God, while at the same time offering tribute to the Roman State. Modern American Christians do this all the time! When you throw a twenty-dollar bill in the Sunday offering plate, but you pay 30% or more of your income as tribute (taxes) to the State … then your loyalty is crystal clear. And it’s not to God. But, to the early Christians orthopraxy, or what you did, was far more important. The original believers would rather be crucified (some upside down), sawn in half, burned, beaten, or thrown in prison rather than show fealty to the State by tossing one thin shekel to the State. And don’t forget the reason Jesus was crucified. The Jews said it was because Jesus committed blasphemy against God. But, Pilate refused to crucify Jesus for any religious reasons. He needed something more substantial …something that showed that Jesus was against the State. And, so, Pilate eventually sentenced Jesus to the cross with three charges;  claiming to be King, sedition and failure to pay taxes!

The bottom bottom line: It just might have to do with the clothing Christians wore. Christians put on “the mind of Christ”, not the thoughts of Empire. They stood firm with the “belt of truth”, not the lies of Empire. They wore the “breastplate of righteousness”, not the clothes of Empire’s materialism. They fitted their feet with “the gospel of peace”, not the wars of Empire. They protected themselves with the “shield of faith”, not with Empire’s security blanket. And their only salvation was “the word of God”, not the empty promises offered by Empire.

Non-conforming Christians were of no use to the State and a danger lest their convictions spread like the plague to the other citizens. So, from time to time the State had to cull these “atheists” from the herd. I ask you once again; “Does this sound like the early Christians practiced submission and obedience to the State? Really??”

BIBLE VERSES WHICH TEACH DEFIANCE TO THE STATE IS OK

Once again, before we begin I would like for you to consider this question; — “Are there any verses in the Bible which teach that the State is to be – to use Dubya’s words – “The Decider” in matters right or wrong, moral or immoral, good or evil?” I hear the sound of crickets!

Also, consider the word usage in Scripture of these spiritual AND political words;

— life ………….occurs 6,001 times

— free …………occurs 454 times

— justice ………occurs 212 times

— happy ………occurs 143 times

— freedom ……..occurs 45 times

— bondage ……..occurs 55 times

— happiness ….. occurs 54 times

— liberty ………occurs 32 times

— tyranny ……. occurs 14 times and ‘evil’ occurs 1,503 times

So, considering the 8,513 references above, do you think that just maybe the Good Book has something to say for Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness … and against those evil entities who wish to rob us of this God-given gift? Sure, there is a spiritual-only component to more than a few of the above verses. But, trust me on this, a good many of those references pertain to life, liberty, and happiness in THIS world.

The Jewish mindset isn’t nearly as obsessed with the next world as the Christian mindset. Jews do believe in the afterlife (heaven), but there is little emphasis of it in Torah. Jews believe that the best way to follow God’s will and to fulfill His commandments is to connect to God’s physical world. Even the Hebrew word “mitzvah” is rooted in a literal meaning of “to connect”.

How do you glorify God? By doing executing His commandments “on earth as it is in heaven” and by doing so, you have accomplished the will of God. “For this commandment which I command you this day, it is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, …. it is within your close reach to serve God in your mouth and heart, to do (Deuteronomy 30:10-14).

So, as you read the following verses don’t over-spiritualize it by saying “Oh! That only applies to God’s heavenly kingdom!” Judaism, much more than Christianity, emphasizes DOING good deeds here on earth whenever possible … and that “doing” includes proclaiming forth, and making possible, God’s desire that His people here on this blue rock pursue Life, Liberty, and Happiness. As far as Jews were concerned, heaven can wait. The State reverses the attitude. It is the State which prefers that you forget the crazy idea of Life, Liberty and Happiness on this earth. In opposition to Jewish though, the State prefers that you just wait for Liberty and Happiness for when you croak.

So, let’s now examine the crazy idea that God endorses opposition to a tyrannical state.

——————————– –

 “I think it’s a bad idea to give you a President. The first thing he’ll do is take your children from your home so they can fight in his army. They’ll have the worst jobs, leading the charge into battle. Cannon fodder, basically. Your sons who are not fit for battle he will turn into slave laborers. They will sweat in the field plowing his crops, and work in his factories building tanks and other armaments. And if that’s not bad enough, he won’t even pay them! Not even your daughters will be safe from this President. He’ll force them into menial jobs such as cooking and baking, and others will be sent to slave in his perfume factories. And he won’t forget you either! Whenever it suits him he will simply confiscate your farmlands, and your vineyards, and that lovely olive grove you have out back. And just so he can show who the boss is, he’ll give your property to his buddies who aren’t even working. Haha! He’ll implement an income tax – forcing you to give him 10% of all your crops, and 10% of your flock each and every year. These also he will give to his political favorites. Eventually, you’ll become his indentured servant. I have more bad news. He’ll be President for life. You will cry your eyes out when this President is done with you, and you will beg me to get rid of him. But, I won’t. Once you choose, your choice is final. You’ll have tied my hands and even I won’t be able to help you!”

The above is my “modernized” version of I Samuel, Chapter 8. Hard as it may be for you to believe, God never wanted his people to be ruled by a government of men! He knew the heart of man and that it was inclined towards “only evil all the time. So, prior to the people clamoring for a King, God instituted a form of quasi-government of “Judges” who were directly accountable to Him. Of course, there were both righteous and unrighteous Judges. But, for the most part this form of rule, established by God, thrived for four centuries. Some call it a theocracy. I disagree. Due to the Judges rather limited powers, I think it was humanity’s best experiment ever with Libertarian Rule.

“Once upon a time the trees decided to choose a king. First they said to the olive tree, ‘Be our king!’ But the olive tree refused, saying, ‘Should I quit producing the olive oil that blesses both God and people, just to wave back and forth over the trees?’ “Then they said to the fig tree, ‘You be our king!’ But the fig tree also refused, saying, ‘Should I quit producing my sweet fruit just to wave back and forth over the trees?’ “Then they said to the grapevine, ‘You be our king!’ But the grapevine also refused, saying, ‘Should I quit producing the wine that cheers both God and people, just to wave back and forth over the trees?’ “Then all the trees finally turned to the thornbush and said, ‘Come, you be our king!’ And the thornbush replied to the trees, ‘If you truly want to make me your king, come and take shelter in my shade. If not, let fire come out from me and devour the cedars of Lebanon.’” —- Judges 9:8-15

Above is the Bible’s very first allegorical story, or parable. It merits attention, but very few Christians know this story, or the point the author is making … which is another anti-government message. So, you have these trees who ask the olive, the fig and the grapevine to rule them. All three respond that they are too busy with productive pursuits — providing oil, fruit, and wine — to waste their time. But the thornbush, which infests fields and crops and is fit only for destruction, not only eagerly accepts the invitation to rule … but immediately threatens the trees first with dominance and then with violence! The thornbush’s invitation to “come and take shelter in my shade” is a death sentence as most trees weaken and die in shade. What you have in this brief parable is a wonderfully prescient and cautionary tale against the State

“Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.” First Book of Maccabees (Benjamin Franklin suggested this phrase be used as the motto on the reverse side of the U.S. Seal.)

“Who will rise up for me against the evildoers or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity? — Psalm 94:16

“Proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness the prisoners” — Isaiah 61:1 and Matthew 11:5

“We must obey God rather than men” —- Acts 5:29

—————-

Jesus Christ was meek and mild, a 1960’s era hippy-ish looking dude with that long flowing hair (always washed and shiny … I think he used Prell shampoo) and trimmed beard, who smiled a whole lot and hardly had anything bad to say about anybody, totally like non-confrontational, man, who gathered little kids around him like the Pied Piper, and they all took turns sitting on his lap while they sang Kumbaya My Lord … Jesus’ favorite song. Oh, really?? Maybe we should take a closer look.

Jesus being born resulted in all the infants in Bethlehem being murdered. Jesus started his ministry in the local synagogue by reading from the book of Isaiah and proclaiming the reign of God had arrived. This infuriated the religious leaders and was seen as a subversive act of civil disobedience as he was basically telling the leaders they would soon be out of a job. When Jesus finished reading and declared — “Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.” – the people and leaders understood that Jesus would enact The Year Of Jubilee. This meant the poor would receive justice, the entire economic system of land ownership would be reordered, and there would be a complete upheaval of the entire class structure. His words were revolutionary against the State! Jesus constantly spit in the face of authority by healing and working on the Sabbath. In fact, he said the Sabbath was made for man – a complete reversal of everything the religious leaders believed. It was an act of disobedience which shook them to the core. Jesus made a career of condemning the wealthy, even saying they had a snowball’s chance in hell of entering heaven … yet, allowed Mary Magdalene to spend a years’ worth of wages on perfume to wash his feet. This kind of thing drove the authorities crazy. Jesus publically insulted King Herod by calling him a ‘fox’ and ‘a reed blowing in the wind’ — strong and almost vulgar insults in that day. Jesus infuriated the Romans by teaching that Rome was under God’s rule, not the other way around. Jesus lived about three miles from the major Galilean city of Sepphoris, populated by many Romans, yet the Gospels record virtually no contact with Roman citizenry – almost as if Jesus purposely avoided them. Jesus had equally meager contact with Gentiles – one time calling a Gentile widow a dog. He trashed his own family at the wedding in Cana by saying he didn’t know who they were. He mocked and despised the religious leaders of his day – calling them “hypocrites”, “vipers” and “whitewashed tombs”, pretty on the outside but dead, stinking, and rotten inside. He made friends with the most reviled people of the era; lepers, prostitutes, and tax collectors. He usurped Temple authority by violently chasing out the money changers. He constantly challenged the very legitimacy of the Temple – even threatening to tear down the entire structure. Jesus chose to enter Jerusalem riding on a donkey as mockery of the ruler’s horse. And when the State killed him, he rose again, and made a mockery of death … the State’s ultimate tool of terror.

Look, Jesus was a lot of things. But, please don’t tell me he was a meek and mild pansy who kowtowed to authorities of his day! Jesus strongly condemned those who controlled the temple, those who controlled the Empire, and the machine that controlled the economic systems that starved and robbed the poor and left the orphan and the widow to fend for themselves. To Jesus, these issues of politics, economics, and spirituality (the will of God) were all tied together, and the State was fair game to condemn when they turned tyrannical.

A quick tour of civil disobedience verses scattered through the Bible. In Genesis 15 Abram gathers his forces into a militia and attacked the Kings who had kidnapped Lot and his family and taken his possessions. In Exodus 1, the Egyptian Pharaoh gave the clear command to two Hebrew midwives that they were to kill all male Jewish babies, yet the Bible says the midwives “feared God” and disobeyed Pharaoh. In Joshua 2, Rahab directly disobeyed a command from the king of Jericho to produce the Israelite spies who had entered the city to gain intelligence for battle. In 1Samuel 14 King Saul commands that no one could eat until Saul had won his battle with the Philistines, but Saul’s son Jonathan defied his father’s order and ate honey. Saul then ordered his son to be killed (nice dad!), but the people refused to carry out the order.   In 1 Kings 18 Queen Jezebel was killing God’s prophets, but Obadiah took a hundred of them and hid them from her so they could live. In Daniel 3 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego refused King Nebuchadnezzar’s command to bow down to the golden idol. In Daniel 6 King Darius issues a decree to not pray to anyone other than the king, but Daniel continued to pray to God (and received the death penalty). In Matthew John the Baptist mocks authority when he publicly scolded King Herod for his infidelity In Acts several apostles disobey orders from the authorities to refrain from teaching or preaching the Gospel. Strangely enough (or, hypocritically?) the Apostle Paul spent about as much time in jail than out …. by refusing to obey proper legal authorities who demanded that he abandon his missionary work! In Revelation, in order to become a Christian during the reign of antichrist you are required to disobey the authorities.

The results are in; from Genesis to Revelation there are plenty examples that God approves of believers NOT obeying earthly authority!

 SOOOOO, NOW WHAT? DO WE GIVE PEACE A CHANCE?

Why? Do you think evil will give up its power peacefully? Do you think they will allow you to vote them out of existence? H. L. Mencken echoes my sentiments;

“The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can’t get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods.”

For the life of me I can’t understand why some people don’t understand that the above quote is true regardless of who is in power; Republicans, Democrats, or even most Independents. They are all whores.

Voting only hastens your demise. What do politicians do? Pass laws! And every passed law is a further infringement on your liberty. Every single law is passed with a provision for fines, penalties, and imprisonment. All government is based on force and violence. Only a handful of crimes were formally listed when America became a nation. Today there are thousands of laws in the Federal Register … so many that it is a virtual certainty that every adult American commits a felony every single day. Voting is the means by which people impose their will, their beliefs, their ideas, their concepts, their desires, upon others. You choose a “representative” who will legally steal (taxes) from your neighbors in order to give you what you want. Your neighbor does likewise to you. Yet, you believe that your vote will change things?? It is a fundamental deception to believe that mankind’s kingdom, mankind’s government, can provide viable long-term solutions to mankind’s problems.

If talking with evil works, then why does Jesus return with a sword? Why do hundreds of millions have to die in The End Of Days? Why can’t Jesus sit down with the Antichrist and have a summit, or something? Why can’t Jesus just compromise here a little, there a little, and everyone walks away happy? Because at some point tyranny because so overwhelmingly entrenched in the system the only solution is to surround it, then kill it. Thomas Jefferson stated it best; — “”When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”

America is quickly reaching that level of corruption. Our country isn’t dead yet, but we are on critical life support. We need some good medicine, and I have a Magic Pill.

Do you really want to change America? Then forget about voting. Rather, live a godly life! To make it really simple, and to include everyone (even atheists) all you have to do is live half of the Golden Rule; “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Imagine millions of Americans living like that … the change in this country for the better would be phenomenal. Imagine ten thousand ministers across this land preaching the Golden Rule Sunday after Sunday until the people “get it”. Imagine a full year of Sundays preaching just on only justice, personal responsibility, life, and liberty. We just might become great again, for the wealth of a nation is in its people. But, I’m no fool. I know that won’t happen. There’s no free government check involved. So, we must go to Plan B.

SOOOOO, NOW WHAT? REVOLUTION?

Yes, but first some key unresolved questions need to be answered.

1)– How does a Christian reconcile the biblical verses which indicate obedience to the State with those that don’t? That’s easy. Pick one! It happens all the time. That’s why there are hundreds of various Christian denominations, all having formed their own group because of doctrinal differences. For the longest time eating pork was forbidden. Then, one day the Apostle Paul had yet another vision whereby this time a sheet full of animals being lowered from heaven. A voice from heaven told Peter to kill and eat, but since the sheet contained unclean animals, Peter declined. The command was repeated two more times, along with the voice saying that all the animals were OK to eat because God made them. And just like that the other white meant was kosher. Following the deep theological principle of “pick one”, some of Paul’s followers ate bacon, some did not. Likewise, review both the pro-obedience and pro-disobedience verses …. there is no “right” or “wrong” choice … and pick the one that resonates with you. But, if you’re one of the people who sits it out, I hope that in the Day Of Reckoning God asks you; “When your brethren went to war, why did you just sit here?”

2)– How do we include as many Americans as possible? Race relations in this country are worse than I’ve seen in my lifetime. Some days it seems to me that Race Wars are inevitable. If that does happen I hope it can be delayed until after the revolution because don’t see how victory is possible if the various races are pitted against each other. “Divide and Conquer” plays directly in the hands of the powers that be.

3)– Most importantly, how do we insure that what follows the revolution isn’t worse than what preceded it? Quite a few revolutions have resulted in the citizenry being worse off than ever. I only raise the question because it is critically important. I’m not smart enough to know the answer.

OK, then! When should we consider a revolution?

——– When the State steps outside of God’s ordained purpose and persecutes innocent people, promotes evil, and does injustice to the innocent.

——– When the Bible tells you to abhor debt but the State says “your share” of the national debt is over fifty thousand dollars

——– When the State never allows you to own your land, but charges you rent (property taxes) into perpetuity.

——– When the State causes you to fear the police more than your fear criminals.

——– When the State steals your children via Child Protective Services.

——– When the State steals your money to feed those who will not work.

——– When the State believes it is God, having power over life and death

——– When the moral authority of the State has been lost.

——– When the State sells justice to the highest bidder.

And for a hundred more reasons. That’s when. And that time is NOW. The sooner we start, the better off we will all be. Let’s do this thing!

Amen.

MORE READING: FOUR GREAT RESOURCES

My “go to” guy on anything related to Christianity and the State (and lots of other stuff) is the brilliant thinker and writer, Laurence Vance.   Here is the index to just his ‘Christian and State’ articles; http://www.vancepublications.com/articles%20by%20lmv%20chr%20and%20state.htm

Ellen Finnigan writes several good articles concerning the State and Christianity on Lew Rockwell. A particularly good, fair and balanced article is titled “Do Military Heroes Go To Heaven”. Here; https://www.lewrockwell.com/author/ellen-finnigan/

A book by a Christian and for Christians that makes no apologies for the state, its legislation, its regulations, and its wars. Christian Theology of Public Policy: Highlighting the American Experience by John Cobin, a financial planner who holds a Ph.D. in Public Policy from George Mason University. A blurb from the dustcover — “This is an outstanding book that I could not have written if I tried. It is a thoroughly biblical and much-needed remedy to Christian apologists for the state and its wars. Dr. Cobin hits the proverbial nail on the head when he describes states as “parasites and predators that dole out privileges and siphon off prosperity through taxes and regulation.” I highly recommend this book to all Christians, and especially those Christians who blindly follow the conservative movement and the Republican Party while repeating their “obey the powers that be” mantra.” —– http://archive.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance101.html

The book “Resistance to Tyrants: Romans 13 and the Christian Duty to Oppose Wicked Rulers”   http://www.amazon.com/Resistance-Tyrants-Romans-Christian-Oppose-ebook/dp/B00925ZP4U

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[Fair Use Note: You may copy some or all of this report freely as long as attribution is given to the author (Stucky) and website (www.theburningplatform.com) If you wish, you may also include my title; “El magnífico y maravilloso estudioso de la Biblia”]

Author: Stucky

I'm right, you're wrong. Deal with it.

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183 Comments
AnarchoPagan
AnarchoPagan
April 17, 2015 6:05 pm

Stucky,

Kudos to you for trying to get some of the traditional Christians to think a little differently. I particularly liked your blunt advice about “how to reconcile conflicting passages in the scripture!”
As to your personal religious exploration, may I suggest that you look into “The Laughing Jesus” by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy, a form of Christian spirituality that you might be able to take seriously.

Gil
Gil
April 17, 2015 9:58 pm

Well E Corona you believe a belief in God equals morals? You immediately jump from the Moses to Jesus. I guess I have a strange view that morals are about right and wrong not whether deities exist.

So Stucky you’re playing a game where you want freedom of religion but not freedom to choose anything other than a denomination of Christianity? If Christianity is so right then no other religion has anything to teach and quite diverts people away from truth and salvation.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
April 17, 2015 10:09 pm

Gil says:
Well E Corona you believe a belief in God equals morals? You immediately jump from the Moses to Jesus. I guess I have a strange view that morals are about right and wrong not whether deities exist.
Anybody can believe in God or not believe in God. I mention that Mucky is an upright man and he is not even a believer. So, no, I do not equate belief with morals. Some of the worst criminals have also been believers.
Billy gave a good history lesson regarding states’ rights, he jumped from the founding fathers to modern day in like 3 steps. It’s a comment and not a treatise section. Brevity is the soul of wit in the comments section – see flash for proof. You don’t have a strange view, it’s amazing how many folks with pedestrian views think they are special, they are so common and trite.

Billah's wife
Billah's wife
April 17, 2015 10:36 pm

Ok. El Peyote. We’re past 100 comments and so now is the time to git real.

What’s goin on with yew? First yer blamin turning into some kind uh ragin beaner on yer low blood sugar and now yew swing to the far end uh the overly self conscious scale and start quotin mah Billah? What gives?

Stucky, go back ter yer roots. Yew was raised Catholic at the wrong time hon. The Church in America was plum near dead. Jes imagine that time when yew was evangelical is like when Billah snorts uh line uh crusty drano and starts banging his head against the wall. Orthodoxy (right belief) is like the pot uh coffee in between benders. Mah recommendation would be 7 storey mountain by Thomas merton, er if yer feeling smart, everlasting man by chesterton.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 17, 2015 11:12 pm

OK Stucky, back to the question of revolution or holy war /combo.

First, this country is occupied by a hostile criminal force. This criminal force declared war on Christians decades ago and are dedicated to eliminating Christian beliefs and influence on this society’s traditions and culture. Their goal is the irradiation of Christianity before the New World Religion is brought forth.

Therefore, any revolution against this occupying government would also be a holy war to save Christianity in Amerika as well as to restore the constitutional government.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
April 17, 2015 11:49 pm

Billah’s wife says: Orthodoxy (right belief) is like the pot uh coffee in between benders.

BW giving Stucky spiritual pointers reminds me of the time Clammy was giving LLPOH lessons in running a business.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 17, 2015 11:50 pm

That would be irradication of Christianity…..stupid tablet changed to irradiation.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
April 18, 2015 12:07 am

EL Coyote says:

You have to be smarter than the tablet. I believe you meant eradication above. Putin is going to irradiate us Christians soon enough.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 18, 2015 12:20 am

EC

Jebus this tablet changed it to irradicate and I believed it. Damn thing was made by Chi Comms so I should have known better. Total piece of shit…changed ark to arc the other day.

Did you get the above message? Flash called you a pot stirer, not me.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 18, 2015 12:44 am

EC- yes eradication…..public school edumacation….I are stupit.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
April 18, 2015 1:35 am

Your right, Bea, it was flash, very observant of you.

I also notice I did not specify female nurses but no one protested. I love that WW2 pic of the sailor kissing that nurse, it wouldn’t’ be the same if it were a male nurse but then the statue of that kiss would still be up at the NYNY casino.

Why are traditional nurse outfits enticing where traditional nun outfits aren’t?

I have heard since childhood of Catholic school apostates. Parochial school kids told the most sacrilegious, blasphemous jokes.

My own parents gave religion short shrift. The Mexican revolution resulted in a dispossessed church; its landholdings and power curtailed by law. My grandfather had the same suspicion of the church as he had of the government. Nonetheless, he had faith in the Virgin, a faith he repudiated when he converted to Protestantism.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
April 18, 2015 1:46 am

It my be Stuck et al is a victim of operant conditioning, like a dog who is beaten in the presence of blacks learns to associate blacks with the threat of pain, Stuck may have a fear of closets. Heh.

My grandpa said the cleric’s first love is stomach. He did not see any love of God in them.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 18, 2015 1:58 am

EC

Did you mean to say – You’re right Bea?

We both need to give up while we are ahead. You are so right that WW2 photo would not have gone over very well if it had been a male nurse.

Gil
Gil
April 18, 2015 1:59 am

War on Christianity? That usually ends up translating to “how dare Christianity be treated as just one more measly religion when it’s the backbone of the U.S. of A.?!”

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
April 18, 2015 2:24 am

Bea, listen, I corrected you in a helpful way but as for words like there, more and your, it is not necessary.

Witness that I did not say anything about Stucky’s misspelling above, if I wanted to do so, I would find away to do it in a silly way, sort of like: ‘I’m just a lehman here but I believe you meant to say ‘moars’ even though it is pronounced ‘morays’. It isn’t his only misspelled word but correcting him is not pertinent to his opus, it would be niggling.

Llpoh
Llpoh
April 18, 2015 6:12 am

Stuck – thanks for the work. Sorry I am away. But as I have oft said, I do not comment on religious threads as a rule. I have already said/wrote enough about that stuff to last my lifetime. And all those words I spewed amounts to a big pile of dog doo in the end.

Appreciate all the effort you made.

Llpoh
Llpoh
April 18, 2015 6:14 am

Btw – I am one who thinks the military will side with the people. The cops will not.

flash
flash
April 18, 2015 7:33 am

after all is said and done , and the all seems lost , I still pray….

moar’ brevvitty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4QBTot7ObM

flash
flash
April 18, 2015 7:34 am

BTW, EC, glad to see you back stirring the pot.

Xr
Xr
April 18, 2015 8:48 am

Admin, this is part of an article written in 1999. I believe it is prescient.

A New Political Agenda

DESPITE its feeble rates of political participation, Generation X has already—if unwittingly—exerted an influence on the substance of our politics. This may seem counterintuitive, but who would deny that young Americans were a major force in pushing the balanced-budget cause to the fore? In part this is owing to the large number of Xer votes cast in 1992 for Ross Perot, the candidate who staked much of his campaign on balancing the federal books. Though Perot lost, his pet issue gained momentum as candidates from both parties scrambled to win over Reform Party voters, and the young ones in particular. Recognizing that Generation X makes up a large and particularly unpredictable voting bloc, candidates from across the spectrum have gone out of their way to woo the youth vote, usually by paying lip service to some of young people’s more obvious concerns, including, most recently, Social Security reform. Over time, however, Xer support for issues such as balancing the budget and saving Social Security will turn out to be only part of a much broader agenda, one that could come to challenge the status quo on everything from taxes to social policy to political reform.
For years the nation’s tax debate has revolved around the question of how much to tax, with the left arguing for more and the right for less. In keeping with the concept of balanced-budget populism, the Xer economic agenda would start with the assumption that the government’s share of national income should remain roughly constant. It would focus instead on a far more profound set of questions: What should be taxed? Who should be taxed? What should we invest in? and Who should get the benefits? Over the past several decades the tax burden has crept further and further down the income and age ladder, with the benefits going increasingly to the elderly and the well-to-do—the government now spends nine times as much on each elderly person as it does on each child. If Xers had their way, the collection of taxes would become more progressive and the distribution of benefits more widespread.
One would never know it from partisan skirmishes over income-tax cuts, but the payroll tax actually constitutes the largest tax burden borne by 70 percent of working families and by a full 90 percent of working Americans under age thirty. It is also the most regressive of all taxes, because it kicks in from the first dollar earned, falls exclusively on wages, and is capped at $72,600. An appealing solution to this problem would be to replace payroll taxes with pollution taxes, thereby boosting wages, promoting jobs, and cleaning up the environment, all without raising the deficit. Taxing waste instead of work is precisely the kind of innovative and pragmatic proposal that could help to galvanize the members of Generation X, who have been put to sleep by the current tax debate.
Sooner or later Xers will figure out that America could raise trillions of dollars in new public revenues by charging fair market value for the use of common assets—the oil and coal in the ground, the trees in our national forests, the airwaves and the electromagnetic spectrum—and the rights to pollute our air. We currently subsidize the use of these resources in a number of ways, creating a huge windfall for a small number of industries and a significant loss for all other Americans. The idea of reversing this trend by charging fair market value for the use of common assets and returning the proceeds directly to each American citizen plays to a number of Xer political views—it is populist, equitable, libertarian, and pro-environment all at once.
The populist economic leanings of young adults will also lead them to rethink various other elements of the social contract between citizens, government, and business. For one thing, ending corporate welfare would appeal to a generation weaned on the principle of self-sufficiency. The hidden welfare state, composed of corporate subsidies and tax loopholes that overwhelmingly benefit the well-to-do, has grown several times as large as the hotly debated social-welfare state that benefits the disadvantaged through means-tested programs. Yet today’s politicians are too much indebted to the beneficiaries of this governmental largesse to do anything about it. Here, then, may be the key to keeping the budget balanced while funding the social investments that are so important to Xers: all of the money raised or saved by charging for the use of common assets, ending corporate welfare, and closing unproductive tax loopholes could be used to make a topnotch education affordable and accessible to all and, just as important, to make every American child a “trust-fund” baby from birth.
Making economic incentives more progressive and redirecting budgetary priorities is only one part of an Xer economic agenda. Today’s young adults, more than any other group at a comparable age, are concerned about their economic outlook and their ability to balance the conflicting demands of work and family. If such problems worsen as a result of economic globalization, then the populism of Generation X, which up to this point has been relatively mild, may suddenly become more pronounced. For instance, the 2030 Center, an advocacy group concerned about the economic well-being of Generation X, is launching a campaign to promote a contingent workers’ bill of rights, which calls on employers to provide health care and other benefits to more of their workers.
Even as they were being told that education is the key to a promising future, many Xers were learning the hard way how bad our urban schools have become, and how inequitable is the access to a high-quality education. Neither party is providing a palatable solution: Republicans are all but writing off public schools by emphasizing vouchers that favor private schools, and Democrats are perpetuating many of the worst public-school problems by refusing to challenge the teachers’ unions. There are no simple solutions to the predicament, but an obvious starting point would be to sever the traditional link between public-school funding and local property taxes, which only exacerbates existing socioeconomic inequalities. (Several states have already begun moving in this direction.) Another significant improvement would be to increase the skill level of our public-school teachers by imposing stricter standards and offering more-competitive salaries.
Xers would support enacting new policies to advance racial integration and civil rights in America—policies that avoid the divisiveness and unintended consequences of race-based affirmative action. Although such policies made sense when they were introduced, many Xers believe, race is no longer the determining factor in who gets ahead. In the twenty-first century poor black Americans will have more in common with poor white Americans than they will with upper-middle-class blacks. If the goal is to help those most in need, it would make a lot more sense to pursue class-based affirmative-action programs. Doing so would enable all those at the bottom—regardless of race—to get the help they need, in a way that promoted national unity and racial integration. Another promising alternative to race-based affirmative action is the Texas Ten Percent Plan, whereby all students graduating in the top tenth of their high school classes—whether in inner-city schools or in elite private ones—are automatically accepted into the state’s public universities.
Fundamental campaign and political reform is the sine qua non of a Generation X political agenda. Like most Americans, Xers would like to see bold steps taken to get money out of politics. But persuading America’s young that their individual votes matter is likely to require reforms far more radical than any currently under consideration.
Until recently most political-reform movements in the United States were based on the assumption that the problem was not the two-party system itself but rather its corruption by special interests and incumbency (hence the proposed cures of campaign-finance reform and term limits). But neither the reduction of private campaign contributions nor the implementation of term limits for elected officials will alter what seems to alienate Xers most of all: the political duopoly of Democrats and Republicans. The rules of today’s two-party system actively discourage a third or a fourth party. Consequently, there is growing interest among the young in replacing our archaic electoral process (itself a remnant from eighteenth-century England) with a modern multiparty system. With three or four parties contesting many races, politics might become exciting enough to draw in disenchanted Xers who believe, correctly, that in most elections today their votes do not count.
As the vanguard of the digital age, Xers will also be inclined to support experiments with electronic democracy. For instance, one Xer has launched an effort to make information about the sources of campaign contributions immediately available to the public and the media over the Internet. But the full potential of digital democracy runs much deeper. Already groups are experimenting with electronic town-hall meetings and various forms of deliberative democracy, in which individuals are provided with a full range of information on a particular issue and can register their opinions with the push of a button. It is not hard to imagine a day when citizens will be able to register and vote online, and to monitor the performance of their elected officials with electronic scorecards.
The introduction of electronic communication within corporate America has helped to flatten organizational hierarchies, boost information flows, increase decision-making speed, and, most of all, empower workers. It is at least conceivable that the introduction of electronic forms of democracy could serve to re-engage a generation that has been alienated by today’s money-, spin-, and celebrity-dominated politics. And if Xers do eventually enter the fray, their agenda will transform America’s political landscape.
The Future of American Politics
REPUBLICANS and Democrats will be tempted to dismiss the Xer agenda, because it threatens their electoral coalitions and the politics of short-term convenience. But both parties will do so at their peril, because many of the issues that Xers care most about are already rising to the political surface. A glimpse of the future may come, strangely enough, in the election of Jesse Ventura as governor of Minnesota. Much of Ventura’s support came from young adults, who took advantage of Minnesota’s same-day registration law and stormed the polls, helping to create a record turnout. This suggests that if a political candidate can somehow capture the passion of young adults, they will do their part. Ventura offered young Minnesotans something refreshing: a clear alternative to Democrats and Republicans, and a willingness to take on the status quo. But Jesse Ventura is no figurehead for Xers; he is just an early beneficiary of their pent-up political frustration.
As the Xer political agenda starts to take hold, it will further strain existing loyalties. On the Republican side, the odd-bedfellow coalition of social conservatives and economic libertarians that has defined the party for the past two decades is coming apart as a result of the Clinton impeachment saga, whose most lasting legacy may be that it dealt a coup de grace to the political aspirations of the religious right. The Democratic coalition is just as fragile, particularly since it has been losing its base of working-class white men, and the potential retreat of the religious right may deprive Democrats of an obvious opponent against which to rally. As these de-alignments unfold, major shifts in the makeup and core agendas of both parties become almost inevitable.
The stability of today’s political consensus is also contingent on the promise of an economy that continues to expand. Take that away, and the props of the status quo—a balanced budget and the novelty of a budgetary surplus, a booming stock market and stable price structures, low unemployment and rising wages, falling welfare rolls and crime rates, and the illusion of a painless fix to Social Security—all topple at once. No business cycle lasts forever, and the global economic crisis of 1998 should come as a warning of what may lie ahead. The prospect of a significant recession leaves the future of American politics wide open.
Turning points in our nation’s political history, occasioned by the collapse of an existing civic and political consensus, have usually been accompanied by rampant individualism, weakened institutions, and heightened levels of political alienation. On these scores Xers are playing out their historic role remarkably well. But such periods of civic unrest have also stimulated new political agendas, which eventually force one or both parties to remake themselves around new priorities and coalitions. Could the Generation X political agenda serve as the basis of America’s next political consensus?
Balanced-budget populism, social investment, no-nonsense pragmatism, and shared sacrifice could resonate quite strongly with Americans of all ages—particularly the increasing number who are fed up with conventional politics. What is more, the Xer synthesis of a middle-class economic agenda with a moderate social one could remake the powerful alliance between progressives and populists that dominated national politics (and brought widespread upward mobility) from the 1930s to 1960s, when it was ripped apart by the cultural upheaval of the Baby Boom. In practical terms this new politics—based on fiscal prudence, economic populism, family-friendly morality, social investment, campaign reform, environmental conservation, and technological innovation—could eventually take hold in either of the major parties, both of which are now searching for a coherent agenda and a lasting voter base. For Democrats it could mark a return to the party’s New Deal roots, and for Republicans it could give substance to heretofore vague calls for a “compassionate conservatism.”
Since this new politics could speak to many of those who are alienated by the current political order, Xers and older Americans alike, it could give birth to our nation’s next majoritarian coalition. Such a coalition could do a great deal to reinvigorate our nation’s democracy, benefit the majority of its citizens, and restore legitimacy to our political system.
When history books are written at the end of the twenty-first century, it is unlikely that the post-Baby Boom generation will still be referred to as a nondescript “X.” One way or another, this generation will be judged and labeled by its legacy. Today’s young adults will be remembered either as a late-blooming generation that ultimately helped to revive American democracy by coalescing around a bold new political program and bringing the rest of the nation along with them, or as another silent generation that stood by as our democracy and society suffered a slow decline.
The great question of twenty-first-century politics is whether a critical mass of Xers will eventually recognize the broader potential of their agenda, and outgrow their aversion to politics.

Admin, please read !!
Admin, please read !!
April 18, 2015 11:07 am

Your “Men Go Mad In Herds” is up on Lew Rockwell.

I think you should make it the lead article. Mine has been up long enough, and has run its course.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 18, 2015 11:56 am

Stucky- Do you know what the endgame is for our owners (TPTB)? By that I mean, what the future world will look like.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 18, 2015 2:20 pm

So it is written, so it shall be done.

Stucky

Trouble is they write the scripts and in their script the world will have a “one size fits all”religion. The most powerful war on this (holy or not since you don’t like the term)would be in the minds of the people and through prayer. Many minds with one thought/purpose is a POWERFUL thing. Believe it…live it.

Just wondering if you know who coined the term agnostic?

Muck About
Muck About
April 18, 2015 8:14 pm

@Bea: gnostic: adjective
of or relating to knowledge, especially esoteric mystical knowledge.
• (Gnostic)of or relating to Gnosticism.

Origin:ORIGIN late 16th cent. (as a noun): via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek gnōstikos, from gnōstos ‘known’ (related to gignōskein ‘know’).

agnostic: ORIGIN mid 19th cent.: from a-1‘not’ + gnostic.

Hope that helps…

MA

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 18, 2015 9:16 pm

MA

Stucky advised in his 10:03 post because of two books he had read, he had become and is at present agnostic and is leaning toward deism. The term “agnostic” was coined by Thomas Henry Huxley of that pesky occult/satanist Huxley clan. The darlings of the owners (TPTB) who are dedicated to the occult.I am heart broken to see one that is pure of heart to be tricked by these terms. Gnostic from ancient texts was a meaning quite different.

I am not a fan of Wikipedia but most folks will read a wiki link:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
April 18, 2015 9:19 pm
EL Coyote
EL Coyote
April 19, 2015 12:26 am

The message was co-opted and sanitized so that God becomes “The Almighty Dollar” or the Authorities. The church is willing to comply as long as it can carry on without interference.

The country was founded by Protestants who were persecuted by other Protestants in England. I have no idea how Catholics crept into your foundation story unless you counted Brian Williams.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 19, 2015 6:38 am

I stopped reading when you used the Lords name in vain. At that point it seemed clear that you are using Scripture for a deviant purpose.

SSS
SSS
April 19, 2015 1:23 pm

“Btw – I am one who thinks the military will side with the people. The cops will not.”
—-Llpoh

Concur, and I hope we are right. If active duty units are ambivalent, the National Guard is not. Too strong a record of serving the many communities in which it resides. It is PART OF those communities

ottomatik
ottomatik
April 19, 2015 2:03 pm

Stuck- Thanks for the good work. It is my hope that Christians and non-Christians alike will find common ground under the Liberty Movement banner, as before. The forces arrayed demand it, division is a powerful tool being deftly wielded.
The justification for personal liberty and responsibility transcend religious denomination. Thank you for highlighting one of the many facets of Liberty, Christian Spirituality.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 19, 2015 2:47 pm

SSS

You forgot to let history give you a clue Super Sleuth…..

When it is time for a take over, historically they use mercenaries and flood the country with hordes from a hostile culture (mooslims etc).Russians have been here for several years.

To worry about our troops being loyal to their countrymen makes no difference. Our troops will perform the task of disarming America.

Muck About
Muck About
April 19, 2015 3:40 pm

My final comment on this thread..

Quoting passages from the “Bible” (whichever one you choose) in order to prove a religious or non-religious point is the highest example of circular logic practiced by man.

It’s like me writing “Do “thus” and follow me!’ which proves you should do “thus” and follow me.

Circular logic is the bane of all supernatural and religious arguments as it uses a non-extistant event to supposedly prove the event really happened.

It also bites scientists in the arse now and again, but usually some other scientist calls them on it and they hash out the crap and settle on a testable hypothesis. Can’t get there with religion or super-natural situations, statements or beliefs as there is no way to test any of it – much less get repeatable results.

Faith is a great thing for those who need it to comfort themselves and I have nothing bad to say about it unless it gets bloody. I’m really not sure what drives islamic killers – including suicide bombers and suicide squads that attack groups of civilians and just want to kill anyone who’s close enough to kill.

All I know is that it give all those who practice Islamic Religion a very bad name because they – the peaceful ones – won’t (or are too scared too) stand up and condemn the violent behavior of those extremists

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
April 19, 2015 4:26 pm

Concerning circular logic, some of it is the church’s fault. They say ‘you are saved’. Then they threaten your salvation with provisos and laws they make up. And they tell you you can’t think that, judge this, evaulate that, notice this contradiction, count the money..

As for quoting the bible, well, it is smarter than quoting oneself. We also quote the ancient and modern philosophers and lawyers to support our opinions. We still refer to the Constitution when arguing for our rights, is that circular logic?

SSS
SSS
April 19, 2015 7:49 pm

“You forgot to let history give you a clue Super Sleuth ….. When it is time for a take over, historically they use mercenaries and flood the country with hordes from a hostile culture (mooslims etc).Russians have been here for several years.”
—-Bea Lever @ SSS

Hmmm. Tell me again how Lenin, Mussolini, Hitler, Tojo, Kim il Sung, Castro (well, Che Guevara was born in Argentina, but he doesn’t count), and Pol Pot used “mercenaries” to take over their countries. I missed that part of 20th Century history.

“Our troops will perform the task of disarming America.”
Bea Lever @ SSS

Good luck with THAT fool’s errand.

(SSS smacks Bea like an annoying gnat.)

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 19, 2015 9:42 pm

SSS

The boys in Brussels got a good laugh at your list of homegrown revolutionaries. They know our military will not dismantle this government to move us to global governance. A major power like the US will be hit by a perfect storm of financial collapse, possible civil war, foreign troops, mercenaries and embedded hostiles (mooslims). Very bleak.

Blackwater/Kraft International mercs got a good chuckle also…..

Your favorite gnat.

Administrator
Administrator
  Stucky
April 20, 2015 8:28 am

This was my reaction too when I heard Tebow was coming to the Eagles, except I wasn’t praying.

TE
TE
April 20, 2015 9:33 am

@Bea, ever think this created hatred against Muslims is a red herring/distraction? Look at our “results” of the TRILLIONS we have squandered, and the fact WE back BOTH sides, again, and again. We are currently prosecuting a young man for training with Syrian rebels, which, btw, WE gave arms and funds too to oust the President! Yet, somehow, a citizen is a terrorist for associating with them.

Bush signed agreements with Canada and Mexico to bring their troops here. It will be not be “mooslims,” based on percentages of their military, it will look much like ours, primarily Christian. All of them walking around with the belief that Jesus supports murder in the name of controlling other humans.

Even more great, thought-provoking comments since the last time I was here. Stuck, I am in awe.

TE
TE
April 20, 2015 10:21 am

@Stuck.

Have re-read quickly, again, I’ve been so busy and just the comments have been weighty on my time 🙂

So I printed it off and put it on top my reading table, you have reached epic status in my house!

The one comment that sticks out for me and really the only thing that I could really add to your wonderful insights and commentaries, is from this statement, “…As such, my first major premise is that Christianity for at least the past hundred years has been in grave error regarding the relationship between the Christian and the State. If it’s possible to summarize in just one word what the State demands it would be OBEDIENCE! ..”

Totally agree with it, EXCEPT the “past hundred years.”

Christianity, from the time nation states began to declare it the “official” religion, has demanded total obedience to state. The minute ANY “state” declares you MUST believe in their version of God and Salvation, evil is created.

I watched “The Tudors,” an HBO series and was re-interested in both Henry and his many wives, and the division of the Church, which I have always directly related to as I was raised in the new version of Christianity, not the Catholic one.

Henry, along with nearly all rulers, truly believed they were Kings because they were anointed/appointed by God, even though they ruled because men choose to spit in God’s eye and kill and rape and plunder, usually in His Own name, to gain the power, wealth and control.

Sir Thomas More, the self-professed “humanist” and godly man, considered a Saint by the Catholic Church, burnt many for the grave sin of preaching individuals have the right to speak to, and understand God, without using the middleman of the Church. And this was while Henry, married multiple wives and killed a few too. Keep in mind is was ILLEGAL, and considered heresy, to read God’s word in the Bible of that day. Illegal to read the alleged word of God, that really sounds like a great plan.

England, and our Christian religion no matter the flavor, has a bloody and deadly history of state worship that extends back to our very roots.

I’ve recently been brought to the conclusion – for me, you all can reach your own – that Jesus would NEVER have blessed the Church in His Name. It seems to go against the very basis of the teaching he wandered around spreading. NOWHERE does he command his followers to suck off the state, or to send their sons to die for the States, or Jewish, or Man of any kind, laws. NOWHERE is it stated that he declares it illegal to read the Word for yourself, or go forth and help others without being forced to. He teaches that evil is inside yourself, God is everywhere the good in man is.

I have not yet found the passages, but know the bible has more than one verse where God commands, and Jesus explains, that men were NOT meant to rule other men.

Yet, here we are, all self-righteous in our belief that God wants us to hate, ostracize, and kill others for not agreeing with our version of righteousness and godliness.

Jesus also says, it is in Mark, I actually was led to it last night, that the Jews, especially their leaders, were fond of paying lip service to God while spitting on his true message.

God is love, growth, understanding and cooperation. He states that sin does not come from Satan, but from the heart of men. He states it very well in Mark’s retelling.

Peace to you all. Thanks again Stucky, my spiritual growth continues, and lots of it is directly due to you.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 20, 2015 11:52 am

TE

Agreed 100% that we play both sides as you stated. Embedded mooslims here are not military, not sure what you mean. Hostiles yes, not military.

flash
flash
April 20, 2015 12:34 pm

I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.

—1 John 2:21

TE
TE
April 20, 2015 1:07 pm

@Bea, I was talking about your statement about powers that be using mercenaries like “mooslims” and Russians.

I was talking about the fact they won’t NEED to, at least at first. Maybe our future occupiers will use them, but the treaties signed with Canada and Mexico, to name but two, allows our governments (and theirs) to use borrow and use troops here.

It is lots easier for our Military commanders to use soldiers of another country, military men used to following orders even if they don’t do everything the same way. Mercenaries by their very nature are harder to control, and in my opinion will be a future step past the time when troops are stationed on our streets.

From my understanding, it went CIA, then Army/War, then Mercenary in nearly every world war we have ever played in. I’m probably casting too wide a net, but that seems to be my returning gut feeling/un-educated guess. And, from friends in the military in the ME, both in the early 90s and now, that is exactly the way it went there, twice. From grandparents and the like, I heard the same thing of WWII, and from uncles and friends, I heard it about it in Vietnam.

@Stucky, truly, I am a better person and have been blessed to know you. Had you not asked the question, “why is Satan God’s bitch,” I wouldn’t be where I am right now spiritually. Seriously. That was the very beginning and you continue to add to it all the time.

I see why you were drawn to theology, you truly are gifted with communicating and shedding light on the good book and other historical happenings.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 20, 2015 1:20 pm

Stucky- TE said it better than I that you are truly gifted with communicating and shedding light on the Good Book. That is why I am sad that you have been duped by the occultists, you would be a powerful force in the pulpit. Christianity needs to be reformed.