“How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives.” — Annie Dillard
Imagine that the moment you are born that your number of allotted years is represented as a fishbowl of water. For some, the bowl of water represents 90 or more years. Sadly, others only get a day. Most of us are allotted days somewhere in between. But, the fact of the matter is that the quantity is quite finite. In more morbid terms, we all march inexorably to our deaths from the moment we enter this world.
Now, this is a most unsettling thought! So unsettling, in fact, that most of us can’t handle it. Sure, we all know we’re going to die – in a 21st century intellectually rationalist sort of way. But, we really don’t BELIEVE it – nosiree, not with the same conviction that we believe, for example, that the sun will rise tomorrow. Seneca tells us as much when he writes;
“You live as if you would live forever; the thought of human frailty never enters your head, you never notice how much of your time is already spent.” ———— Seneca (quotes in green)
I don’t know about you … but, that pretty much sounds like me. I rarely give my fishbowl much thought.
SENECA – THE VERY RICH STOIC
Seneca states that not only do we refuse to come to terms with our very brief time on earth but, even worse, we waste away the precious little time we do possess. He goes into considerable detail showing how we shackle ourselves to our labors and our professions. He laments that we give so much of ourselves – in terms of time – to those who do nothing but waste our time. He considered it a tragedy that too many die as if they were children, never having learned to live a full life. In modern terms he would say we’re all too happy that etched on our tombstones is our greatest accomplishment; “He filled out all his expense reports on time.”
Seneca was a Stoic. Stoicism is not a popular philosophy today, especially in America. Why? Stoics don’t believe in Hope, or Materialism! That won’t fly in this country where our last eight years were based on the Hopey and Changy thingee from our half-black President …. or the instruction from the moron from Texas to ‘Go Buy Stuff!” immediately after 19 Saudi’s brought down the Twin Towers. Not to mention that the New Testament proclaims that the three greatest gift that remain throughout eternity are “faith, HOPE, and love”. Stoicism is just not “natural” to most Americans.
“The greatest hindrance to living is expectancy [hope], which depends upon the morrow and wastes today. You dispose of that which lies in the hands of Fortune, you let go that which lies in your own. Whither do you look? At what goal do you aim? All things that are still to come lie in uncertainty; live straightway! But those who forget the past, neglect the present, and fear for the future have a life that is very brief and troubled; when they have reached the end of it, the poor wretches perceive too late that for such a long while they have been busied in doing nothing.”
That really doesn’t fit our “Power Of Positive Thinking” culture. I can almost envision all the nasty comments fomenting in your minds!
On top of that, the other criticism is that Seneca was very very rich …. certainly in the Top 5 in all of the Roman Empire. An elite. The one-percenter of his day. Someone who could afford to gaze at his navel, and contemplate esoteric teachings …. unattainable, in practical terms, to ninety-nine percent of the rest of the empire’s population. Furthermore, Seneca wrote his letter to his friend Paulinus who had responsibility for maintaining the entire grain supply for the Roman Empire. As such, Paulinus was just as rich as Seneca. In modern parlance, it would be like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet pontificating on “what it all means”. Most people would find whatever these two old Cooters came up with to be above their pay grade.
Nevertheless, “On the shortness of life” is considered one of the great ancient classics. Sure, I find some of the philosophy to be quite objectionable. But, few philosophies are one hundred percent incorrect. Throw out the bad, and keep the good. And Seneca has some terrific advice … pertinent even to our times.
Before we look at just a few key passages, I believe you’ll find it worthwhile to familiarize yourself with Stoicism by watching the following under five minute video. Some say Stoics were pessimists. I think they’re realists. Decide for yourself.
5 MAIN POINTS
1)– Stop Making The Complaint – “There’s just not enough time.”
“It is not that we have a short time to live, but that we waste a lot of it. Life is long enough, and a sufficiently generous amount has been given to us for the highest achievements if it were all well invested. But when it is wasted in heedless luxury and spent on no good activity, we are forced at last by death’s final constraint to realize that it has passed away before we knew it was passing. So it is: we are not given a short life but we make it short, and we are not ill-supplied but wasteful of it… Life is long if you know how to use it..”
Seneca says that people complain about the “meanness of nature” because our lives are so brief, and we aren’t given enough time to live them. However, this is not the fault of the gods … it is solely our fault. Mankind is cursed by insatiable greed, and that greed causes a slavish dedication to useless tasks. He quotes an unnamed poet: “It is a small part of life we really live.” He then notes a number of ways in which man spends time not living;
— slothfulness
— drunkenness
— working to make others rich
— serving or associating with thankless people
— worrying about what other people think of us
— procrastination is “idiotic” and may be the biggest “sin” of all
— being involved in activities where the main motivation is greed
— having too many goals, or no fixed goal at all … he recommends having one primary life goal, picking just one thing, even if it’s the wrong thing
2)– The “preoccupied” find life very short.
“Indeed the state of all who are preoccupied is wretched, but the most wretched are those who are toiling not even at their own preoccupations but must regulate their sleep by another’s, their walk by another’s pace, and obey orders in those freest of all things, loving and hating. If such people want to know how short their lives are, let them reflect how small a portion is their own. …. the preoccupied become aware of life only when it is over.”
The “preoccupied” are not only those who toil for other men, but also those who live a life of leisure. People who have so much free time on their hands that they are involved with such trivialities as “those who arrange with anxious precision his Corinthian bronzes”. Not all leisure is truly leisure. What would he say if he walked into a Home Depot? He then uses a lot of ink to scorn those people who get angry because they received a bad haircut. (Really.) He observes that such people would be more upset by a bad haircut than in their own country being invaded. He wonders; “Which would not be more anxious about the elegance of his head than its safety?” I wonder how America is any different … where only 20% of Americans can name more than one of the five freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment, but 90% can name all the men screwing the Kardashian women whores.
3)– Stop waiting for retirement to enjoy life, or do what you really want
“So you must not think a man has lived long because he has white hair and wrinkles: he has not lived long, just existed long. …….. Certain people reveal the most stupid indignation: they complain about the pride of their superiors because they did not have time to give them an audience when they wanted one. But can anyone dare to complain about another’s pride when he himself never has time for himself?”
Seneca is appalled that people put off leisure time until their retirement. he says it is supremely stupid to wait until one’s mental and physical faculties are in decline to devote one’s wisdom to life and living.
He gives the example of Emperor Augusts who was heavily burdened by the responsibilities of his post. It was Augusts’ desire for leisure that comes with old age that gave him solace in his labors. Yet, there is sorrow in Augusts’ final words on his death bed; — “Did I play the part well? Then applaud as I exit.”. Like a tragic Shakespearean play, Augusts’ life was merely a role he played for the benefit of the audience.
He continues on with Cicero — one of Rome’s greatest politicians and orators — who wrote in a letter to a friend that he felt as if he were “half a prisoner” while lounging in his Tuscan estate. Cicero was so entangled within his duties and burdened by his commitments that even in leisure Cicero felt as if he were a prisoner. That, according to Seneca, is no way to live.
4)– How shall we then live?
“We are in the habit of saying that it was not in our power to choose the parents who were allotted to us, that they were given to us by chance. But we can choose whose children we would like to be; Zeno, Pythagoras, Democritus, Aristotle, and Theophrastus ……… We are in the habit of saying that it was not in our power to choose the parents who were allotted to us, that they were given to us by chance. But we can choose whose children we would like to be.”
Philosophy is what makes life worth living! Not a surprising statement coming from a philosopher. Now, that doesn’t mean you should go to Barnes&Noble and purchase “The 100 Greatest Philosophers In History”. According to Seneca, philosophy was quite simply a conscious and deliberate pursuit of knowledge and wisdom. We are properly engaged in the duties of life only by deliberate striving to uncover True Wisdom.
It is only by endeavoring to uncover true wisdom that we are properly engaged in the duties of life. The Stoics taught that we ought to live according to nature … and that humans ought to live according to our human nature. Learning and increasing in wisdom is man’s most natural and pleasant state … and should be a lifelong pursuit.
This is a difficult concept for Americans to accept. Most of us are defined by our work. “How dare you say my work doesn’t matter!”, is probably your reaction right now. As mentioned above, Seneca wrote his letter to Paulinus — the keeper of Rome’s grain supply, the man responsible for ensuring that citizens were fed and that starvation and famine didn’t run wild through the city. Yet, Seneca is telling his friend that being shackled to such responsibilities is no way to live one’s life! Wow, that’s a difficult pill to swallow.
Nevertheless, as one continues to read the rest of the letter, Seneca’s “bottom line” is an idea we can all support. Death is an inevitable conclusion to life, and ought not to be feared. Live life as if every day were your last, because it might just be. And don’t worry so much about filling out your expense report on time. Languishing about your lot in life is a complete waste of time. Instead, take time to cultivate your inner self, as the pursuit of True Wisdom is life’s greatest reward. And when we die, and die we will, we should die content with our lives, with ourselves, and with the beauty of our souls.
5) Take stock! A sobering chart.
“Check off, I say, and review the days of your life; you will see that very few, and those the refuse, have been left for you.”
This is probably not what Seneca meant by checking-off and reviewing your life. However, as a visual aid of our lives in terms of time gone by, and the possible time left, I believe it can shock some of us into reality about the shortness of life. Print it out, stick it on your fridge, and check off each month. And, as you check off each month you might ask yourself; “How much time did I waste that month?” or, “How much time did I spend pursuing True Wisdom?”
YIKES!!!!
Fill in your name …. have fun.
FULL TEXT OF SENECA’S LETTER: https://tripinsurancestore.com//4/on-the-shortness-of-life.pdf
Oh, one last thing. If Seneca were alive today, he wouldn’t take a Selfie! He’d be too busy commenting on The Burning Platform … and then kill himself after talking with bb.
I_S, I understand you. I have read a lot of great literature and I do appreciate it, but I’m much happier reading to satisfy my curiosity about something. I have come to almost consider the curiosity a curse – it won”t leave me alone, and I don’t have enough years left to find out about everything on my list. I didn’t know I wanted to learn the biography of cancer until. I came across The Emperor of Maladies, a Pulitzer Prize winner from 2010, at Costco – and suddenly I was seized with a need to find out all about cancer even if it takes 470 pages. So I bought the book and I am well into it. This required me to put aside a book by Henry James on his visits to and observations about the cathedrals of Mont Saint Michel and. Chartres in France and the medieval society that produced them. Just yesterday I renewed a years-long desire to read A Distant Mirror by Barbara Tuchman, and while I’m at it, to read all her other books. But I will make myself wait until I’m finished with cancer.
Friends mention or discuss programs they watch on TV and I realize I have become a popular culture illiterate. I never know what they are talking about. I smile and think “How can you just sit and watch TV when you could be reading about all kinds of stuff?” (Actually I’m shouting at them in my head.). Just think: they could be reading TBP instead of watching Dancing With the Stars.
My oldest grandson, age 8, is a chip off the old grandmother. His first project worthy of research was trains, which he started at about age 3 and it lasted a good three years and he knows much. This past year he was seized with a yearning to learn all about the Revolutionary War, which he proceeded to do. Since I knew this project was underway I gave him biographies of B Franklin and T Jefferson as well as a book about the war itself for his birthday. He was so thrilled to get those books. Now he has switched to World War II. He ‘s telling his parents about the time, place, and outcome of various battles. May this wonderful curiosity never be snuffed out.
I just don ‘t understand people who get bored. Like Robert Luis Stevenson wrote, “The world is so full of a number of things that we should all be as happy as kings.”
Gayle–YES, YES, YES! You are becoming a better person. Curiosity is a gift. How else will you know yourself. How else will you know the Force that created the Universe.
It is in the doing that spiritual progress is made. Knowing without doing is sin as Edgar Cayce explained. Writing here is doing. Always know and always do.
I cannot believe so few appreciate the wisdom of Homer Simpson. Neanderthals.
Homer, Edgar Cayce has been discredited here as a fraud and a phony. You might as well tell us we should all get on the Ouija board to contact his spirit. It’s snake oil, man. Just mentioning him makes you sound like a goof, especially to someone like Gayle, you might have better luck converting bb to your New Age shaman or curandero. Too bad cause I like you, I think LLPOH quoted you extensively above.
“For thousands of years, people have been writing about happiness. The ancient Greek philosopher Aristippus”
Fine, let’s wax philosophical.
I don’t measure my life in years but happiness.
EL Coyote–You’re misinformed. People more qualified and learned than you or me and have studied the life of Edgar Cayce have expressed a different opinion. Perhaps, your opinion is not a learned opinion.
It’s ok to have an opinion, but not all opinions are equal. I am not aware of where Edgar Cayce was discredited as a fraud and phony. Please, elaborate. Not opinions, just facts.
IndenturedServant says: I figure that right at the moment of my death I’ll have discovered who/what I really want to be.
There’s a birthday card that says, Lawdy, Lawdy look who’s forty. Nothing says forty like wondering who or what you want to be. The train done left the station, bra.
Your comments today have really opened my eyes about you, despite your bitter complaints about bad folks who post here and wringing your apron about Admin’s plans for this blog, your a lightweight.
I apologize for taking your criticism seriously and will henceforth consider the source. Have a good day.
He isn’t scientific, he’s a seer into the occult. When you start talking about occult stuff, your talking new age-y stuff that has no place here. I mean, even the skeptics and agnostics will be the first to throw out something that has less credibility than what the ascribe to the bible.
Kill Bill–I loved that movie. Uma is a real Honey. She was so beautiful.
The trouble with Happiness is that when we seek it, it eludes us. It is only in retrospect after having done something that we think back and realize it was a time of happiness. Happiness isn’t a goal but a description.
Edgar Cayce said. “We’re about as happy as we make up our minds to be”.
Homer, my moniker is two fold, mostly aimed toward killing the obamacare bill. As for the for the rest, I see the decay, and refuse to be depressed by it. Decay is gangbangers, crime, wars, political corruption..it is depressing,, but this should not and will not decide my time in the fish bowl.
EL Coyote–Come on, give me a break! Not Scientific??? Does that mean not following the Scientific Method with repeatable observation and experimentation? Oh! you mean it colloquially. Like scientists haven’t studied it. Scientist haven’t studies your mind. I guess your mind is an occult phenomena as it isn’t quantifiable.
Look into Quantum Mechanics where Quanta is an occult phenomena which physicists have difficulty explaining or even creating a repeatable experiment.
Life is an occult experience if you look closely enough which you didn’t do with Edgar Cayce..
Believing is easy, knowing is really hard.
Kill Bill–That may be true, but it reminds me of one of my favorite movies. I agree about killing Obama Care. The biggest tax increase since Social Security. Both came in the mist of a depression.
Stucky said:
“Billy?? I_S?? Répondez s’il vous plaît.”
Like I said about a month or two back, I no longer read anything written under the El assclown moniker. I don’t read, speak or understand assclown and there aren’t enough minutes left in my life to learn.
“Theoretically, this should be the end of discussing philosophy in this thread.
The shit fest should be under way shortly. Theoretically.”
Nope. Been reading about slime mold all afternoon and packing for our trip. (it’s raining here) Besides slime mold is infinitely more interesting and intelligent than El Assclown. He’ll have to shove his head up his ass a little further and fight for air if he wants a shitfest.
It also confused admin at one time, homer.
No probs, have a beer and butt heads on the morrow.
Then repeat.
Stucky, I just skimmed the article and will read it more thoroughly tomorrow. Thanks for bringing philosophy to TBP. And llpoh is correct. Philosophy appeals to very few. In my graduating class, there were 5 philosophy majors out of over 500. Part of this is because we had to write a senior thesis (mine was on causation– a real snooze fest) and defend it in front of the faculty. Very intimidating. I actually didn’t do so well (I was cocky) and was ripped a new one.
The truth is philosophy, whatever its merits or demerits as a subject, has its value in that it trains the mind, much like mathematics does. We were always making distinctions, clarifying concepts, and drawing conclusions, while trying to understand difficult material. If I can be boastful a wee bit, philosophy is the physics of the humanities–not many can hack it. After 20 years of studying and teaching philosophy, I can typically make mincemeat out of most mortals in argument. I owe this to my “training”. It’s also why I am called an asshole and dickface, and do not get invited to many parties. After a few drinks, in a heated discussion, I usually pile drive the guy’s argument into the ground, mild manners be damned, upsetting just about everyone ( I do this at family gatherings too) and have made women cry. I’m surprised I haven’t been lynched by a liberal mob yet.
Just one more thought. Plato thought that philosophy should be reserved for older people, that it would be wasted on the young due to their lack of experience and foolishness. Hence, you are in the “Platonic” wheelhouse so to speak. Not that I am am expert in any particular figure or movement, but if you want to ask me questions or just have a philosophical conversation, ask admin for my email, and I’d be happy to help if I can.
Wow, Stuck hit the nail on the head with this article. I didn’t know you were on your deathbed, I-S, sorry to hear you only have minutes left. Please enjoy the time you have left.
Arch, what I know of philosophy could fit in one of I-S’ condoms but, as I understand, philosophy is the mother of all sciences.
Just to be clear philosophy is the finding of truth by discussion and sophistry is truth brought from lies.
Neoconservatism and neoliberalism are in effect lies.
Wonderful post Stucky – thank you.
I suspect Seneca/Stoics – like most TBP’ers – are INTJs – who else would be so @#&$ curious about the doom, gloom and inevitable bust.
But I have recently discovered John Michael Greer and learned that while Rome wasn’t built in a day neither did it decline in a day and learning to accept that I am a part of an empire in decline that could well take decades if not centuries has put me in a better mood and given me a better outlook.
These links also go a long way in explaining why something that I find fascinating is of no interest to others. The idea that the stoics acknowledged that there were always people that just lived for the moment and had no interest in the bigger picture was helpful in dealing with my peeps.
http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/
One more point. One reason philosophy is ridiculed, although it has been ridiculed throughout time, is because today it has become completely detached from life, academicized so to speak. This is a woeful trend, probably fifty years in the making. And if it is not reversed, philosophy will be assigned to the dung heap or the corner coffee shop.
Also, that philosophy was radicalized by Karl Marx, as a tool of political action, rather than a pursuit of knowledge, is the worst outcome imaginable, and wholly contradictory to its main historical purpose. Further, all of the humanities are tainted with the Marxist brush, providing a theoretical framework for much of the political chicanery and economic buffoonery we take for granted today. It is a scandal and has got to be stopped by hook or by crook.
I would like to propose peace between IS and El Coyote.
I do not know what has caused the enmity. I personally find it unfortunate.
I believe it is well known that I respect IS and always look forward to reading his comments.
EC I find brings an unusual, minority perspective, and we really need that around here. Diversity and all that can help bring nuance to a lot of subjects. EC also makes me laugh. And scratch my head, as there are many times I cannot for the life of me figure out what the fuck he is saying or meaning. I suspect he gets his languages mixed up at times. Spanglish I suspect is his native tongue.
So, to IS, I ask – as a favor to me, would you give EC a small second chance, please? It does not need to be much of a second chance, and I understand TBP vendettas better than most. And then if he again draws your ire, I will say no more on the subject.
EC – would you offer IS some courtesy and stop doing to IS whatever the fuck you have been doing to him, as a favor to me? As I said, I think you offer a lot, when I can understand you, and to have you fighting with IS over lord knows what is not good for the general debate around here. There are so many more juicy targets than IS, surely you could torment one of them instead?
I do not believe I have EVER asked for a favor before on TBP. I generally am a natural ally of IS, so he will get little in return for me owing him one, and I tend not to beat up on EC, as he makes me laugh and think, so neither will he get any benefit. So all you two will get from me is my thanks and appreciation if you do me this one small favor.
“Edgar Cayce said. “We’re about as happy as we make up our minds to be”.—— Homer
Maybe so, But, Abe Lincoln said it first.
“I would like to propose peace between IS and El Coyote.” ———- Llpoh
Spoken like a True Philosopher!!!
I also find it unfortunate and am perplexed, as I like reading both of their posts. It would be nice if they figured out a way to make reconciliation. How will offer the Olive Branch, and will the other accept? We shall see.
OTOH, sometimes things have gone too far. I, for example, can never like bb. He gets more and more annoying with each passing day. His blaming the parents for their child being mutilated by copfuks has FOREVER set me at enmity with the Village Idiot. No Olive Branch for him!!! Ever.
“I didn’t know you were on your deathbed,…” —- El Coyote
You know something I don’t???? Jeebus, I hope I’m not on my deathbed! Ha!
One thing I do know …. I have many more years behind me than before me. Despite all the philosophizing in the world, sometimes that depresses the shit out of me. But, not for long.
Stuck–I didn’t know that. Good ideas catch on.
Lincoln also said, “In the end, it’s not the years in your life that count. It’s the life in your years.
Stuck–Do I detect a Deepak Chopra moment?
“Stuck–Do I detect a Deepak Chopra moment?” ———— Homer
Nope. I know virtually nothing about Deepak. I do know he’s Indian. There are some exceptions, but I generally stay far away as possible from Indian philosophy. I abhor most of their culture. Right or wrong, that’s just the way it is.
EL Coyote says: “He isn’t scientific, he’s a seer into the occult. When you start talking about occult stuff, your talking new age-y stuff that has no place here. I mean, even the skeptics and agnostics will be the first to throw out something that has less credibility than what the ascribe to the bible.”
———
I feel sorry for you Coyote. If you close your mind to things not scientifically provable, you are missing out on a vast amount of potential knowledge.
Edgar Cayce was the real deal. Don’t care what Coyote says. Cayce was not a channeler or a psychic, rather he was able to enter a trance state and see into the Akashic records. I’ve read several books about him and visited the Association for Research and Enlightenment in Virginia Beach many times. His medical readings were >80% accurate in diagnosing conditions medical doctors could not. It logically follows that if his medical “readings” were that accurate, then his other readings on Atlantis, Lemuria, reincarnation, and a myriad of other topics were equally accurate.
Edgar Cayce (/ˈkeɪsiː/; March 18, 1877 – January 3, 1945) was an American mystic who allegedly possessed the ability to answer questions on subjects as varied as healing, reincarnation, wars, Atlantis and future events while in a trance. These answers came to be known as “life readings of the entity” and were usually delivered to individuals while Cayce was hypnotized. This ability gave him the nickname “The Sleeping Prophet”. Cayce founded a nonprofit organization, the Association for Research and Enlightenment[1] that included a hospital and a university.
He is credited as being the father of holistic medicine and the most documented psychic of the 20th century. Hundreds of books have been written about him and his life readings for individuals. Though Cayce himself was a member of the Disciples of Christ and lived before the emergence of the New Age Movement, some consider him the true founder and a principal source of its most characteristic beliefs.[2]
Cayce became a celebrity toward the end of his life, and he believed the publicity given to his prophecies overshadowed the more important parts of his work, such as healing the sick and studying religion. Skeptics[3] challenge Cayce’s alleged psychic abilities and traditional Christians also question his unorthodox answers on religious matters such as reincarnation and the Akashic records.
Also the term “occult” is not sinister or anything relating to demonic:
adjective
1. of or relating to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies.
2.beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding; mysterious.
3.secret; disclosed or communicated only to the initiated.
4.hidden from view.
Gayle says: I just don ‘t understand people who get bored.
_____________________________
My mom used to always say, “Only boring people get bored.”
No disrespect llpoh but I don’t need to give El Assclown a second chance. I washed my hands of the mess and don’t read anything he or his assclown buddy bb post. In my last comment to him 6-8 weeks ago I wished him the best with his life and said I would no longer be reading his shit. You can’t fix stoopid by responding to it.
Today I was responding to Stucky who was seeking a response from me to something El Assclown said (quoted). Had Stucky not quoted him, I’d never have seen it. To be honest I’m not even sure what was meant by the part quoted because I don’t understand assclown (or ebonics). I do not read their bullshit unless quoted or posted under an unknown moniker. The signal to noise ratio improves quite a bit by skipping their comments.
If he wants to keep running his mouth knowing that I’m not reading his posts instead of playing with his wiener or reading a good book or playing stink finger with the sexy mongoloid, well, it’s his time to waste as he see’s fit. It’s just more evidence of his retardation, insecurity and miserable fucking existence IMO. Such strong levels of stoopid are beyond my ability to comprehend or engage. Like I said, not enough minutes left in my life to fuck with stoopid like that.
You’re a good man llpoh and don’t feel bad. I have a brother who approaches El Assclowns level of dumbfuckery and I have damned little to do with him either.
IS – no, you do not “need to”. That is why I asked it as a favor. Up to you. Just really feel that there could be some good to come of it. But I might be totally wrong about that.
Re brothers – I have two I have not communicated with in around 20 years for one and 30 years for the other. Amazing, but true. Both largely because they believe I “owe” them for being more successful than they (hard to figure out how that idea works, but there it is). I helped both quite substantially through some difficulties, but when I pulled the teat when they would not be responsible for themselves, they responded poorly. Imagine that.
T4C says:
daily-wtf-20150516-0027_zpsdnvcnslf.jpg
_______________________
Amusing, probably true (for the shallow), but fake. How many famous dead philosophers were there before Plato anyway?
LLPOH, I’m at a loss to explain what happened but somewhere along the line, I-S determined that he could do without bb and me and another person. He called us ‘assclowns’ and went on to post a comprehensive list defining assclowns. His post above is the continuation of his disdain for us.
His comments are always loaded with laments for a time when certain unnamed commenters were not on TBP. He offered us to disappear into the interwebs, whatever that is, and he continues to make those demands. Can he come to an agreement? No, he says he admits he is an asshole and as an asshole, he is not willing to apologize or make up. As a matter of fact, he just referred to my wife as a mongoloid. There, then, is the measure of this person who loves to ingratiate himself with women on this site.
I’ve gone easy on him and probably will go even better on him because while Billy is fun to mess with – at least when it’s over Billy mellows out. I-S is not fun to interact with and I guess I shall skip his comments to avoid getting offended or provoked.
I asked Stucky once, about certain behaviors from a co-worker. I got the answer somewhere else. It said that when people snarl at you and make faces and answer sharply, it’s because they don’t like you. They will go out of their way to suppress, oppress and annul you. Somebody said liars can drive you crazy. So can people who hate you. They can infect your spirit and become an obsession that robs your peace.
That can go on until you wake up and realize what’s going on: you have been re-programmed to hate, you’ve been infected by a hater. Humor is something a hater despises. A hater cannot be happy while the wrong person is happy. Yet when the person they hate is going through tough times, they can sing and dance and yell YIPPEE!
I’ve met this kind of person before, they may accept your apology but eventually you will be apologizing to them all the time because they are a one-way sort of people who care more for themselves than for others. They must be apeased and pleased and catered to. It is a waste of time to complain about it. They claim that because they are assholes there is nothing they can do or will do for you.
Oh well, at least I have the capacity to like more people than he can because I like myself, it’s a prerequisite, you know?
It’s a damn shame, though, to see him posting his garbage here with no one to confront him. I called him on it earlier but he did not deign to answer. The people who suffer for it are those that listen to him without knowing they are following a blind man. One who laments that we are not following admin’s plan, yet knows nothing about the purpose of a blog that seeks to enlighten folks rather than lead them into a hole.
llpoh, my brother lipped off and blamed me for most of my mother’s health problems which included a 20 year addiction to narcotics that doctors handed out like candy. That began before I was born but it was still my fault according to him. I walked up to him, about an inch from his face, told him to repeat it which he did and then I asked if he was serious and he responded yes. I told him to never talk to me again. That was in 1984. I left home in ’85 and never spoke another word to him until 1993 and he was a total fucking ass then so another 22 has gone by. Via my parents he claims he has no idea why “I don’t like him”. If he truly has no idea then he’ll have to wait until mom dies because there is no way I’m dredging that shit up as it would be far too hurtful to my mom and I’m not doing that to her this late in life.
I’ve known a number of successful people with siblings like yours. I don’t get it either.
IS – I am also blamed for my parents ill-health, and ultimate demises. How that had anything to do with me, I will never know. Apparently they think I should have done more – told to me via another member in my family.
I am not distressed and do not miss them. It is via their own actions and not mine. Such is life. Sorry you have had similar experiences.
EC – I do not share your opinion of IS – far from it. Nor do I share his of you.
I find IS smart, well-experienced, with loads of common sense, insight, wisdom, and he has been an enormous contributor to this site for a long time. I do not find him as you describe – not at all. I find I almost always agree with him. Any differences would be shades of color, not black vs white types of differences.
I find you insightful as well, and you bring a perspective from a different background than most here, which we surely need. I find you quite funny, but at times I struggle to understand what you are talking about. Probably because what you are saying comes from totally different experiences so I miss the nuances. I do not find you the assclown that IS does – although I have indeed seen you push some buttons.
There is a great deal of animosity between you. I do not know how it started, nor why, and really do not care to know.
The reason I tried to bring some civility between you is that I believe that neither of you are assholes, and that most likely – as is often the case hereabouts – you would generally be singing from the same hymn sheet.
But I do not know the history.
Fuck it – I tried. Perhaps stupidly, but I tried. I should have followed Homer Simpson’s philosophy – trying is the first step toward failure.
Thanks Stucky for the post.
i enjoy el coyote immensely…. especially because he is a late poster, which makes refreshing the site late at night on the pacific coast interesting.
I also enjoy IS… so for what its worth….
you both do not suck.
now billy and bb i can not vouch for… i think they live together. 😛
llpoh said:
“Fuck it – I tried. Perhaps stupidly, but I tried. I should have followed Homer Simpson’s philosophy – trying is the first step toward failure.”
You’re a good man llpoh. No harm in trying. Not stupid at all. Trying is but the first step, not toward failure but control of the outcome is not always yours.
I have no real animosity against him but I just have no need to read his comments. Apparently that keeps him up nights. He just came along about the same time my tolerance for chronic stupidity maxed out. Like I said, I hope he has a good life. My posts all come with the “IndenturedServant” warning right above them. He can skip mine as I skip his and live his life unencumbered………or not. The choice is his.
T4C, I knew you’d get a kick out of the slime mold. The first one I recall seeing was in MT during the mid-late 70’s. It took years before I found out what it was. Back then it was believed they were part of the fungi family but since then they have earned their own taxonomic classification. There are over 900 known varieties and I’ve probably seen more than I realized. During my years as a cement mason I used to have to hustle up some work in the winters and I spent some time fixing up bank repo’ed homes to put them back on the market. What I first marveled at as some kind of bizarre mushrooms I found in a carpeted bathroom was more than likely a slime mold.
I have my own sibling-rivalry story. My seester.
I’ve mentioned her from time to time in passing. Staunch Obama voter. Libtard. Vegetarian. We keep the peace by NEVER discussing these things.
Personality / emotionally she is EASILY offended — you have no idea. This is compounded by her remarkable ability to hold a grudge forever. Like many libtards, she is angry a lot, and bitter. But, I love her, my only sibling.
One quick example. When I left NJ to move to Indiana, apparently I said or did something to piss her off. Again. The day I drove off with the U-Haul there were many people there for my Farewell Party. But, NOT my own sister!! I got a big “fuck you” for some reason unbeknownst to me.
There is only one reason we haven’t stopped talking to each other all these years. Me!!! I must be the one to initiate ALL peace overtures, no matter what. I must issue an apology for god-knows-what. I must ask for forgiveness. I must walk up to her and give her a hug and say, “Hey, sis. C’mon, let’s put aside our differences, and love each other.”. Otherwise, we would have stopped talking 30 years ago. Seriously.
Fortunately, as long as I initiate the peace-making she is usually quick to agree. Strange how that works. Not always though. Sometimes it takes two, or even three, attempts.
It was quite difficult for me to do this. You all know that I also can be easily offended. And that I attack back with fury. I bruise easier than a Chiquita banana. That’s now. It was much much worse when I was younger. I had to learn to humble myself, to not desire to be “right” and, to not need to “win”. Basically it came down to this; “Fuckit. I know I’m right, but I’ll apologize anyway.”
I learned that it’s NOT that hard to do. Especially since we’re a tiny family here in ‘Murika — just four of us. No aunts, uncles, grandparents, nephews, nieces, etc etc. I couldn’t bear the thought of reducing that family by 25% … for some stoopid fucking reason.
Anyway …… it was a nice try Mr. Llpoh!
I_S and EC have their own reasons for this feud. That’s OK. They are adults with free will. I respect both their viewpoints and decisions. Nevertheless, I shall hold continue to hope that “One day, this too shall pass.” …. when it is right for THEM. No one can truly hold a grudge forever over the internet. Right??! lol
Peace to Llpoh.
Peace to Indentured_Servant
Peace to El Coyote.
Your a cool guy, LLPOH. As Homer said here – knowing the right thing to do and not doing it is a sin. He attributes it to Edgar Cayce but it is also in the bible. As I said, I shall treat I-S better. I forget the guy’s name who said, I will treat you like a regular guy but if I find you’re a dumbass, then I will call you ‘Sir’. He had that tactic, all I agree with is that adopting a more formal manner is appropriate.
Thanks again Stucky and LLPOH for findin th
Thanks again LLPOH and Stucky for finding the time to do an intervention. Your efforts have been noted above and you will be duly rewarded. Perhaps when your time comes to travel to the great beyond, you will travel first class, I hope so.
Homer, did Edgar Cayce also say, Blessed are the peacemakers..? I suspect he did since he was very familiar with the bible.
Stuck, you ARE a philosopher. You don’t need to be centuries dead nor a silly piece of paper (pHD) to make you one. All philosophers who have ever lived have had the same resources to work with (one life to live, 5 (at most) senses with which to absorb information, one mind with which to contemplate). And while not all minds are equal, all perspectives, for all of history, are equally unique. We can never know exactly what it is like to see the world through another’s eyes, but we should always try to understand the views of others in order to broaden our own. As always, thanks for sharing more of yours.
dilligaf says: now billy and bb i can not vouch for… i think they live together.
Maybe my association with these two got me in trouble, however, they are my cohort here. We started here about the same time. They are interesting folks with similar outlooks but different reactions. I commented above that I learned emotions have no IQ. I said I had been unfair in evaluating people according to their emotional reactions, throwing out their intellectual contributions. I was thinking out loud while sharing this change of heart. Sorry to confuse anybody.
I wonder where my buddy Billy is?
Hey, bb, where you at? It’s flooding in Texas, I hope your not over there.
Stuck,
Great timing on your post. Just finished reading two books about my favourite stoic – Epictecus. I highly recommend reading him – he is one of the better stoics in my mind – very zen type reading.
He talks a lot about how to live, externals and what is and what is not within our control and what to do about it. Good stuff and makes day to day living better when you begin to understand it (which was the point in his teachings really).
Definitely your best post to date.
Francis
Someone early on commented on Balance. I have to agree. The only piece of wisdom, philosophy, wit, etc. I have ever found to always be true and actionable is also necessarily open-ended:
In all things, balance
@Steph – do you have a link?
“Definitely your best post to date.” ——— Francis
No way!! You obviously missed my post about the guy who stoically has sex with horses, both genders. That one was gr-r-r-r-reat.