Thinking about Muck’s story re his battle with the health profession led me to write this little thread.
1) Dealing with the Phone Company
I received a call from my kid saying “Hey dad, my phone is not working. I cannot send texts or access the internet (might as well be dead these days if you are a young person and cannot send texts or access the internet, it seems). Can you help me out?” It became my problem of course because the account is in my name.
“OK”, says I, knowing how un-fun this was going to be.
So, I called the phone company. “Please enter the number of the phone that you are inquiring about” says autobot. Dit dit dit, I do as instructed. Dial 1 for billing, etc etc., followed by the hash key. Dit dit.
Then comes the obligatory: “We are experiencing longer than normal delays at this time. Your call will be answered by the first available technician”. Whoa! Now there was a surprise. So I kick back and wait. It actually “only” took about ten minutes before the call was picked up – by one of those non-descript types of voices you get when you are getting an overseas call center. Great, thinks I. This is not going to go well, methinks.
After the general introductory banter, I am asked what phone number am I inquiring about. Damn, that gets my blood rushing a bit. “Umm”, says I – “you just had me type that in. What is the point in having me type it in and then asking for it again?”. Of course, overseas call-taking-person had no clue as to what I was talking about, or why I was making that point.
After the next couple minutes of clear-the-identity hurdles, I explain the problem – no text, no internet, but can make/receive calls.
“OK” says overseas-call-person, “I need you to turn your phone on and…”.
“Sorry, overseas-call-person”, says I. “I do not have the phone, it is with my kid, who is far away, and I cannot access the phone. What else can we do?”
Well, now it starts to get interesting. My response did not compute. The person again asks me to get out the phone, and so I repeat the situation – “I do not have the phone nor can I access it. What can we do”. Silence on the other end of the phone while overseas-call-person’s one brain cell whirs into action.
Again this lady says “I need you to turn on the phone…”.
At which point I ask: “Where are you located?”
“Manila”, says she.
“What a surprise! Do you speak English?”, I ask.
“Of course I do!” she replies.
“Oh, says I. Well that leaves only one alternative then as to why you are not understanding me. You must be a moron. Are you a moron?” says I.
Silence for a few seconds, then “What?” she says.
“I asked you if you are a moron, because you say you speak English, but I have told you three times that I do not have the phone, and cannot access the phone, yet you keep asking me to turn it on. So I conclude you must be a moron.”
She scurries off and gets her supervisor, and after some further to and fro, I am finally advised that they are not able to help me because they are a subsidiary, and the parent provider will need to help me. Out-fucking-standing. There goes thirty minutes of my life I will never get back, all spent dealing with a moron.
So then I call the parent company. Same deal – type in the phone number dit dit dit, wait on hold, finally get picked up, and again asked what phone number I am calling about.
Rinse and repeat my comments about why the hell do you get me to type the number in if you are then going to ask me what it is?
The foreignmalecallperson then indicates he can help me, asks can he put me on hold and he will be right back. Great, thinks I, disbelieving his comments.
A minute or so later, a femalforeigncallperson comes on the line:
“What can I do for you” says she.
“Who the hell are you?” says I, “I was on hold with foreigncallperson #1”. We finally sort out that she was now going to help me.
“Can I have the number of the phone..” she starts out. Oh, man. Here we go. After a severe lashing, she manages to find the phone number all by herself. It was a miracle!
“Oh”, says she, “that is through our subsidiary – you will need to call them”.
Oh boy. Now things escalated. I explained I had already called them and they sent me here to the parent company.
So then I was transferred to another femaleforeigncall person, who immediately asked for the phone number again. Are you kidding me?!!!! With some subtle encouragement, she managed to find the phone number all by herself! Two miracles!
Then, we start again – what the problem is, where the phone is located, that I do not have it, etc. Followed by – you guessed it – “I need you to turn on your phone”.
And then me, “Do you speak English? Where are you located? Is Manila entirely populated by morons, or do they all just come and work for this phone company?”
Silence. Passed on to upper level supervisor. Same series of questions, etc., but foreignsupervisorcallperson did not ask me the number (I think perhaps I finally made that point), and I was finally able to get them to understand where the phone was, and that they would need to deal with my kid.
All told, it took me around an hour and a half, and raised my blood pressure 50 points.
But hey, the phone got fixed, and I got the following text from my kid: “Phone works now. Thanks”. Gee, that made the whole exercise worthwhile.
2) Dealing with Apple
The second case started when my other kid and a friend walked into the house, and I heard my kid say “I told you we should have got my dad to help. He would have taken care of it”. Turns out the friend had an Iphone that had a faulty battery that would not hold a charge for more than 2 minutes. It is a known issue, and Apple has agreed to replace all the faulty batteries.
The friend and my kid went into Apple store, and tried to get it replaced. The friend had broken the screen somehow, and had it replaced with a non-Apple product of some type. The Apple “genius” said that they would not replace the battery as the phone had been tampered with. My kid asked me could I sort it out for his friend. Great, thought I. “OK, let me do a bit of research”. After the research, we headed off to the Apple store.
We went back to the same Apple ‘genius”.
LL: “Hi, need this faulty battery replaced that has been recalled”.
Apple genius (AG): “Sorry, we cannot help as the phone has been worked on by someone else”.
LL: “Does a broken screen affect the battery?”
AG: “Ummm, no”.
LL: (showing screenshot of the Apple website where the product is recalled and where it says the battery will be replaced): “This is where the product has been recalled. Can you read where it says that all batteries will be replaced?”
AG: “Ummm, yes, but I still cannot do it because it has been tampered with”.
LL: “You do know that it is legal to get a product repaired by other than the original manufacture, and the original manufacturer still has to warrant those parts that are not affected by the the other repairer, right?”
AG: “Huh?”
LL: “Well, you have said that the screen does not affect the battery, and so commercial law is that you still have to warrant the battery. You understand, right?”
AG: “Huh?”
LL: “You really are not much of a genius are you? Seems to me there are two possibilities. The first possibility is that you are a moron. Are you a moron?”
AG: ‘Huh? I mean no, no sir I am not.”
LL: “Sure am glad to hear that. Well then, it seems the second possibility is most likely then – that you have been told by your superiors to do everything possible not to replace the batteries on these recalled units. Have you been told that?”
AG: (whispering) “My manager is right over there and I think he is listening, so I really can’t answer that.”
LL: “I see. Well, maybe I should be speaking to him instead then, what do you think”
AG: “Umm yes sir”.
Apple Genius Supervisor (AGS): (after to and fro and explanations are complete, legal issues conveyed, etc): “Sorry sir, we will not be replacing this battery”.
LL: “OK then. So let me explain it a bit differently. Until now I have been very very calm and quiet. But I am not getting what I want and what we are legally entitled to. So here is what I am going to do – I am now going to get very very loud in this store, where you currently have around 100 customer, and I am going to make sure everyone knows that Apple does not honor its warranty, and that it is predatory, and I am not going to use any profanity and threaten anyone, and I am going to do this for a long time, and the rent-a-cops you might call will not be able to evict me, and you will actually have to call in real cops to get rid of me. And all of this will happen because you will not replace a $20 battery”.
AGS: (after considering this for a few seconds, turns to AG and says) “Replace the battery”, and stomps off.
AG then quietly says: “The real issue is that when we replace the battery, we break a lot of screens. That is where all the cost is – we have to replace the screens when we break them getting the battery in and out. That is why they do not want us replacing batteries if we can help it”.
All went well with the battery replacement, and we were on our way.
As we left the store, my kid turned to his now happy friend and said “Told you my dad would get you a new battery”. My kids have seen this all many, many times before.
I have a lifetime of experience being aggressive. I am particularly skilled at it – and am able to raise hell for very extended times without using profanity, or crossing lines that might get me in trouble. However, it takes a big toll over the years.
I really do not know how to be anything else, but the reality is when faced with the types of situations described above, there are two options – you can walk away, or you can fight. The bastards rely on most folks walking away.
The hell with letting them win.
Seems to me these types of confrontations are happening more and more. Yes there are some businesses that go out of their way to make sure you are happy, but they are definitely the minority now a days. My cable bill (TWC) just arrived yesterday with a mysterious $5 increase. Most people would just pay it, but I’ll get on the phone today, the 4th of 5th time I’ve had to call them, which will take a minimum of 30 minutes of my time. The 1st operator I speak with will have no idea what happened or how to fix it. That call will take 15 minutes. They will only follow the script of “let’s see if I can upsell you HBO.” Eventually the 2nd or 3rd person I talk to will be able to figure out the mystery $5 and fix it. The wife did give her OK to finally cut the cord though, so it may come to that.
I am a big fan of doing the right thing and being fair, I also am a big proponent of not letting big guys/companies/bureaucracies/Govs push anyone around. I enjoyed your tales of woe and of eventual success. My personal policy has served me well in navigating the bowels of organizations whose motto seems to be “How may we hinder you today?” That personal policy is simply – “polite persistence” – During one memorable exchange, I had gone to an obscure office that I had discovered to be the stopping point of a very important process that affected my unit/assigned personnel/mission and blood pressure. Having at last tracked down and now introduced myself to the person who was the one signature required for this project to flow onto completion and eventual success, I now stood in front of his desk, and very politely asked when I could have the signature I required, he stated (and I quote) “THAT is my job, and you can’t make me do it”. I now realized that this was not simple laziness or incompetence, but was in fact a passive-aggressive power play by someone who knew just how bullet proof a Big Gov union member he was. I calmly said “yes sir, that is true” and assumed a position of parade rest next to his desk and stared straight into his eyes with a rather dopey grin on my face. Where upon he said, “I’m not changing my mind so you might as well leave”. Then I said, “You might not have changed your mind yet, BUT I’m going to stand here in your office until you do”. It took about two hours of standing there and continuously offering (always very politely) my help/opinion/comments about anything and everything going on in his office before he finally signed the documents threw them at me and bellowed “now GET OUT OF MY OFFICE!”. Mission accomplished, cost? Two hours of my time to solve a problem that had lingered for over six months. After this incident, if I had any other packages that had to be routed through his office I made sure they came complete with a cover sheet with my name and phone number prominently displayed. I never had another project get stopped in his office ever again.
MSG Grumpy
Great story!
My wife is just like this too. She loves a fight and will take all the time required to get what is right, the kids always go to her to solve these types of issues.
We don’t have cable tv but my parents do and when their bill went up unexplained, she went to work.
We all sit back and watch her go to it, same thing, calling them insane, demanding to speak with supervisors, they try to play the delay game but she just puts line 1 on speaker and we listen to muzak.
The parents now pay 30% less for the same package, it’s a beautiful thing.
Llpoh, that’s hilarious, in a sick kind of way. Glad to see you on your best behavior. I am absolutely forbidden to deal with call center/customer service types at my joint as somehow I lose my ability to behave in a rational manner faster than any human on record.i don’t have the patience on the phone, in person, no problem. Funny piece
@TC
Cut the cord. Just do it.
I remember reading about how the top 10 companies control almost 75% or all spending. I think a cable company was on the list.
It happened to me…almost word for word with Telus in BC. I live in a rural area and they told me they did not know when they could check my lines? I harrangued and finally they said they had a truck in the area and they would see what they could do. As a matter of fact, they fixed a friend’s line about 1 mile away and did not bother to come and fix mine as the workers were not allowed to work any overtime. When I found this out the next day I went nuts. I had one in-law in the hospital and my mom in a care facility. We are the primary contact people about all medical issues and we were in the throes of constant phone calls. Cell phones do not work here. I phoned them back from a neighbours, went through the same nightmare voice mail options and dumb questions…including, (I shit you not)…is the phone you are having troubles wilth the same number you are currently on?…and then I went nuts. I asked for ther manager and went nuts on him for maybe 10 minutes, this was after he told me it might be a month before they got back in my area. To make a painfully long story short I had the phone fixed in a few days and received a 1 month rebate on my bill.
We had a big storm which cvaused problems all over the area. The lineman told me the hard wired infrastructure was degrading all over Vancouver Island and that they were having to repair lines constantly.
Telus had record profits last year and dividends. They are constantly looking for M&As.
Apparently, I am now on a list of ‘unstable clients, handle with care’.
The dumbest question was, “is this a number we can reach you at when the repairman is able to visit your area”? My answer was, “now, if |I could be reached at a number would I be trying to get a fucking phone line repaired”. “Think about that one for a minute”.
Oh yeah. Been to this very spot. Even when using profanity, you will make quite the impact before the cops arrive. I have emptied ford dealerships on two occasions over piss the fuck poor warranty service. You are going to get what you want when you are driving away customers who , past tense, were going to buy a vehicle. When screaming at the top of my military lungs everyone can clearly here my displeasure. Garnet ford pa., and davidson ford fulton ny should be avoided at all costs. Pisses me off even thinking about it.
Also works in the doctors office when there are a hundred patients and you start yelling malpractice as loud as you can.
As for foreign customer service, first thing I ask for is someone whose first language is english. Just say what alot and I cant understand your accent habib.
Greetings,
Way to go! One nice thing about working for myself is that I can play the waiting game as well. Also, people get quite nervous over the fact that I’ve done work as a documentary film maker. I make it very clear to them that they can either give me what I want or, perhaps, watch a musical about it later on youtube, vimeo and facebook. After all, I tell them, I have every bit of professional piece of gear needed to dedicate my life to making them look like the “morons” and all the time in the world to do so.
Most of these companies are terrified of a social media backlash. Yelp is another way to get what you want if the offenders are standing in a brick and mortar. Finally, my biggest haul was a $3500 piece of software from a company that had the nerve to send a spy into my facility (they were looking for unauthorized users of their software) and I made them pay dearly for that mistake.
I was in sales and customer service/internal employee service type jobs for years. Yelling rarely gets me anything but, either a very strong and matter of fact voice coming from such a small package, or getting the manager to pop his cork (my personal favorite, lots of free stuff from owner/corporate when a manager ends up screaming in front of a store), and never raising my voice until after he shuts up.
But, I’m now finding, that the lawyers and politicians – excuse the redundancy – have every freaking aspect of our lives buried in miles of rules, regulations, bureaucrats, fiefdom Lords, foreigners with little actual product experience, minimum wage paid (occasionally) ‘murkins that get all the abuse and make none of the rules.
So, saccharine sweet is making a strong comeback. I like it.
I find that if I start off, and extend, every common human pleasantry and decency that I throw the other guy off his game immediately. He is so used to being called names, swore at, screamed at, that just being polite and sweet (you know, like our Grandmothers and Grandfathers used to behave in public) gets me own way and problems generally solved quickly.
Of course, if that doesn’t work I can then use my Mercurial nature to flip a switch and become an aggressive problem that you just do not want to deal with.
However, morons in everyday transactions, like ordering a meal at a speaker or buying gas at the station, are beginning to make me insane, ok, more insane. On my return to home Sunday drive, between being hungry, cold, exhausted, and slightly hungover after my nephew’s beautiful, and wet, wedding on Saturday, and then playing with a 2 and 9 yo in the hotel pool, plus two 100 mile drives in the pouring rain, I was not my normal bubbly self and couldn’t take the idiot at the McDs drive through.
Halfway through a five person order, this happened
My son, “I want a number 5, only ketchup, with the smallest coke and fry.
“Ok, do you want the large soda with that?”, asks the McMoron.
“NO, I want the smallest available,” I pipe in and speak louder than my son. Whom just leans back smiling.
“We don’t have small drinks,” says McM.
“For Christ SAKE, give me the smallest you can,” in what I am sure was a very irritated and strong voice. It scared the baby.
“Ok, so you want a medium drink.”
“WHATEVER, JUST MAKE SURE I GET A DRINK”
And we had five more orders. I wasn’t even driving but jumped in because the kid was being a complete ass asking after nearly every item if that was it and my son was being too nice. And, of course, they messed the order up. Serenity freaking now.
While I want to be nice and spread peace and love through the world, sometimes Idiocracy pops up and I just can’t control myself.
I feel your pain Llpoh, and thanks for sharing.
Very funny.
If I was the AGS, I would NOT have replaced the battery …. just to see the The Show ….. you, ranting and raving about not honoring contracts and all. I would have recorded it and put it on youtube … where it would have gotten 10 million hits overnight …. The Greatest Show On Earth!
On a more serious note … who was the carrier?
Switch to Verizon. I am not big on free advertising for Big Corps … fuck ’em!! But, I must say with 100% honesty, that since we switched to Verizon for everything (phone, internet, tv) it’s been smooth sailing.
First, my internet NEVER goes down, EVER. With Comcast, that was a weekly event. Second, we’ve had a few issues with the phone and cable … and when we make the call we get through almost immediately (have never waited more than 5 minutes), it’s an American in America, … and when the tv cable box needed servicing, they have never taken more than 24 hours to be here .. at the home. I’m quite pleased with them for the past three years.
In a corporate run civilization they will (do) chose our leaders, our foods, our medicines, our wars etc. and they require an industrial system of education that will produce morons that will not question anything.
I too am guilty of doing too much for my kids instead of fostering their independence. I’m doing it, but it is harder to reverse when they’re older.
LLPOH…you and I are cut from the same mold…That’s exactly how I would have handled both situations ( and have so many times ) .
TE
You? At a McShits??? Ordering diabetes-in-a-cup (coke)??? Say it ain’t so! I can only assume;
—-1) there wasn’t another choice within 100 miles
—-2) the kids you were traveling with had a .38 and they forced you to do it
—-3) you’re experimenting with LSD
— 4) hell has frozen over
Here’s an example .
Went to Lowe’s a few years ago and bought a weed eater. Took it home, mixed a gallon of gas with the correct oil/gas ratio. I filled the tank and pulled on the son of a gun for an hour. It never fired once. I was pissed, it was HOT July day in the South and I wasn’t happy .
I grabbed the weed eater and my receipt and back to Lowe’s I went . They lady at the desk ask me if I had the gas mixture correct because the gas didn’t look blue enough . I ask her if she was a small engine repair person ? She replied no. I told her I could put straight gas in the unit and it would run…for a bit and then it would seize up because of the lack of oil in the gas . She said OK, we’ll have to send it out for repair . I told her… nope…I wanted another one. I’ve only has this one for 2 hours…it was brand new !!!!!!
She got the manager…same story. I told him either get me a new one or everyone in the store would know of my displeasure and how Lowe’s treats customers !
I got my new weed eater….filled it up…it started on the first pull !
All the rude hyper aggression may work well until you come into contact with someone like me.I have never lost a verbal abuse exchange in my life. I can name call and curse better then most.All you people are doing is sitting yourself up for a monumental Bitch slap.Better to be patient with respect for other people then to yell or make threats . You may be able to get away with rudeness on the phone but it’s a different ball game person to person. I deal with the public every day. Be polite , be professional and be prepared .That usually works very well.
Llpoh, you misspelled “moran” throughout the article.
Heh.. Good story Llpoh…
I would have paid real money to see The Show. Just sit back and watch the chaos unfold…
Glorious chaos… 🙂
LLPOH: From a different perspective….you know I sell real estate. 99% of my business is bank-owned properties. Acquired by foreclosure. Which means the current owner (bank) has never lived in the house and knows nothing about it beyond what I am physically able to observe and report, i.e. apparent damages.
It still amazes me to no end that other, supposed “experienced” agents who have actually held a license for a fairly long time (at least 5 years and in some cases more than 15) and who I know for a fact are from Earth, continue to ask the same ridiculous questions about the condition of these homes. Despite the fact that I very clearly state “seller has no knowledge about conditions or systems and has never occupied the home”.
Regular, Joe and Jane Buyer I expect to ask this sort of thing. But seriously folks, READ. READ THE DIRECTIONS. READ THE STATEMENTS. Why is this so hard?
Remember that next time any of you interview an agent. Forget a flashy presentation on how wonderful they are. See if they can read and follow simple directions. Or read and understand a simple one sentence disclosure.
If then can’t, run like hell, they are, quite simply, a Moron.
Great stories llpoh. As general Tsao mentioned, using a few keywords, LOUDLY, generally gets some pretty quick cooperation. I’ve been known to go off at times and even swear but I don’t swear AT them. Instead I’ll say something like “fuck me dead”.
I’ve actually turned around and started loudly explaining my situation to other customers in the store if they have not already walked out. Managers don’t like that. Another thing that works when you have to go above the minimum wage moron and ask for a supervisor is to ask for the name and number of THAT supervisors supervisor (or the owner) at the very beginning of that conversation. When they inevitably ask why, I tell them it’s so I know who to call when they can’t help me and keep me as a customer.
When I get handed off to some foreign call center I’ll track down a number for their US headquarters or go into a physical store and seek satisfaction. If I’m told I have to call the foreign center I just tell them to cancel my account and pull out a wad of cash to pay off anything I owe.
I was short on time once before a road trip and needed to get my oil changed so I stopped into a locally owned place and had it done. I don’t trust the morons these places hire so I pulled out and used a fender cover I keep under the seat to check that the drain plug was tight and I checked the oil level as well. The plug was tight but the oil level was at least two quarts over full. I went back in to ask the manager why it was overfilled and he tried telling me that overfilling it was fine which began a loud conversation about the detrimental effects and the reason why they had FULL lines on the dipstick. The minimum wage monkey who actually did the work was listening in and began flipping me shit so I told him he had already proven himself to to be incompetent and wasteful as the manager shoved him out the door. He kept telling me it would be fine so I walked over to the business license on the wall and started writing down the owners name then asked if he wanted to call the owner himself or should I?
At that point he told Mr. Incompetent to drain the oil and refill it but I told him that I did not want Mr. Incompetent touching my rig again and since the manager was the only only other guy there, he had to do it himself.
I’d rather not get rude with people but since shooting them is still illegal, it’s the next best thing.
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Billy , stop being an ass kiss .It’s nauseating .Remember lipoh thinks you’re intellectually inferior. Basically calling your parents stupid hillbilly hicks.
I have a lifetime of experience being aggressive.-LLPOH
Spoken like a true business owner.
Having to reign myself in daily when dealing with morons is the absolute worst part of working for someone else.
Good on you, cell phone companies are stacked with listless idiots, and Apple’s foibles are well documented.
realestatepup, my first agent could not manage to show me homes in the price range I wanted. That was my fault as I had revealed what the bank qualified me for. (I asked the loan officer if he was on drugs when he offered me a loan amount that was well above my ability to pay) When I refused to look at homes that were $50k+ above what I asked for she screamed that she simply could not work with me and quit. The next one was a guy and the first thing he did was take me fishing for an afternoon. He made a sale a couple of weeks later and I came in slightly under what I wanted to spend.
Ah, thank you LLPOH!!!
Just back from D.C. You reminded me I have a complaint to make to the Missouri Bar Association. Do you mind if I share your article on Facebook with that announcement to make a certain lawyer squirm?
I sat across from one of his colleagues recently who was telling me that he really was a “nice guy” just trying to do his job and I said “I’m sure he’s just trying to make a buck but that doesn’t mean I won’t write a letter to the bar, does it son?” And my son said “Momma does like to write those letters.”
I even got one lawyer reprimanded in Oklahoma… it was just one out of four, but 25% ain’t bad when you are fighting bottom feeding scum and morons.
Someone has to teach our kids something…
LOL!!! Nice
When people yell or start acting like assholes when dealing with me .I start moving slower and nothing gets done.After a while i transfer them to friends in Manila.
Good story LLPOH. I’ve been there, done that. More times than I’d like to count.
@Stucky: Glad to hear you’re having good success with Verizon. I have their triple play too along with a whole-house DVR. When they upgraded their system for the new “ten channels at a time” expanded DVR, mine started getting funky on the local CBS-HD channel. Sometimes it would record a program, other times it said it was recorded but wouldn’t play back. Other times it wouldn’t show a program on that channel in real time. They rolled a truck twice to fix it, couldn’t.
Finally I had to cancel service, then get a $30 retention credit, which paid for the upgrade to the new DVR. Installer confided to me they had a lot of problems with the old box since they upgraded their headends to the new one.
Unrelated to the subject.
Friend Llpoh,
Been thinking about your recent loss.. nobody should have to deal with that. It sucks. What sucks more is I can’t do anything for you…
Here.
This was played at my Daddy’s funeral. Every time I hear it, I get wrecked… but it helps some…
It’s the best I can do… hope it helps you some.
(Yeah, I actually do have a heart… and I’m not a complete bastard… don’t spread it around)…
Brethren, farewell,
I do you tell,
I’m sorry to leave,
I love you so well.
Now I must go,
where I don’t know,
Wherever Christ leads me
the trumpet to blow.
Here I have worked,
labored awhile,
But labor is sweet
if Jesus doth smile.
When I am done,
I will go home
Where Jesus is smiling
and bids me to come.
Be gracious, Llpoh.
Maggie – share away!
Billy – thank you, sincerely.
Stuck – when am I anything but?
I will get back to the rest of y’all shortly. I am working through all the great stories! Amazing how many similar tales there are. I have a couple more myself – go figure!
I will try to make these tales quick, but you know how stories can ramble!
My biz partner’s son (PS) came to work for us after many years in admin at a community college. He was ill-prepared for private biz at that time. Something came up, which I will describe as follows, and I organized a meeting between the new CEO of one of our major suppliers, who I had never met, the sales rep, PS, and myself. I did not tell any of them what it was about.
The CEO and rep arrived, everyone into my office, and as the CEO had begun to sit(his ass had not yet hit the seat) I said, and this is an exact quote: “You have really fucked up”.
Total look of surprise crossed his face, of course. He started to speak but I cut him off with this:
“We are your largest customer, and buy $4 million a year from you (20% of theirsales), we pay COD in order to help secure best prices, we have an unwritten exclusive relationship with your company, we have dealt exclusively with you for over a decade, and your end of the bargain is to provide us best service of any of your customers, and to guarantee us that you will not sell at a lower price to anyone given all of the above. It has come to my attention that since you were appointed, in order to secure new business, you are selling to my direct competitor at lower prices than I get, even though he purchases a fraction as much and pays 60 days.”
CEO: “umm, uh, it was not intentional and I will fix it”.
LL: “no need, because here is the new deal. First, we will no longer source material from your company so long as you are employed there. I will make it my life’s mission to see you fired. Second, once you are fired, which will happen shortly, I am sure, we will no longer pay COD, but will pay 60 days. Third, we will always get best price, although we will never again have an exclusive relationship with your company. Now get the fuck off my property”.
After they left, I called the owners of the company. The CEO was gone that day. The rep came back the next day and tried to salvage some things, but my words stood. That fuck up cost that company around $1 million in cashflow (straight back into my pocket by the way ?), $2 million a year in sales, ongoing forever (over ten years ago), and strengthened their competition mightily, so that they are no longer the prime player they were before that monumental fuck up. I still have a yearly meeting with the sales rep who pleads to return to the original agreement. Nope.
And PS’s reaction (no words left his mouth during the short but sweet meeting): “Ho Lee Fuk!”
To this day, he relates that story to any new suppliers coming on board – we are honest, pay on time every time, are loyal to a fault – but fuck with us and be dishonest and here is what happens.
My policy is to not deal with dishonest people, business or private. Simple as that.
overlooking the mundane whilst speaking of morons…we gotta’ support Chris Christie….er…I mean Elizabeth Warren…..NO!..Rand Paul …Rand Paul ! …sheesh…fucktards , one and all…give it a rest , why don’t you ?
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Breaking: FREEDOM Act Passes Senate, Freedom Dies
Written by Daniel McAdams
Tuesday June 2, 2015
By a vote of 67-32 the Senate today passed the USA FREEDOM Act, just days after the expiration of key elements of the USA PATRIOT Act. The FREEDOM Act is billed as a reform of the unconstitutional and recently-ruled illegal bulk collection of Americans’ telecommunications, but in fact it is a whole new level of attack on civil liberties.
Here are just a couple of ways the FREEDOM Act is worse than the PATRIOT Act:
1) The recent decision of the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that the bulk collection of American citizens’ telecommunications information was not authorized by the USA PATRIOT Act means that as of this afternoon, the bulk collection of American citizens’ telecommunications information was an illegal act. The government was breaking the law each time it grabbed our metadata. The moment the FREEDOM is signed by President Obama that same activity will become legal. How is making an unconstitutional and illegal act into a legal one a benefit to civil liberties?
2) The FREEDOM Act turns private telecommunications companies into agents of state security. They will be required to store our personal information and hand it over to state security organs upon demand. How do we know this development is a step in the wrong direction? It is reportedly the brainchild of Gen. Keith B. Alexander, the NSA director at the time! According to press reports, this was but a public relations move to deflect criticism of the bulk collection program. Alexander “saw the move as a way for Obama to respond to public criticism without losing programs the NSA deemed more essential,” reports Homeland Security News.
3) The FREEDOM Act turns private telecommunications companies into depositories of “pre-crime” data for future use of state security agencies. It is a classic authoritarian move for the state to co-opt and subsume the private sector. Once the FREEDOM Act is signed, Americans’ telecommunications information will be retained by the telecommunications companies for the use of state security agencies in potential future investigations. In other words, an individual under no suspicion of any crime and thus deserving full Fourth and Fifth Amendment protection will nevertheless find himself providing evidence against his future self should that person ever fall under suspicion. That is not jurisprudence in a free society.
4) The FREEDOM Act provides liability protection for the telecommunications firms who steal and store our private telecommunications information. In other words, there is not a thing you can do about the theft as long as the thief is a “private” agent of the state.
It is very telling that the same Congressional leaders who have supported the PATRIOT Act for all these years are now propagandizing Americans in favor of the FREEDOM Act.
FREEDOM Act becomes law; freedom, RIP.
http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/congress-alert/2015/june/02/breaking-freedom-act-passes-senate-freedom-dies/
@Llpoh: Laughed so hard I damn peed my pants before making a dash to the bathroom. And that was just the first story!
It is so sweet when you get a firm and righteous grip on the assholes short hair and refuse to let go. Up the ladder, grip tightens and so forth! Perfect.
The second story is even better have turned the screwer into the screwed up and costing him money too!
I’m so glad I inspired such sterling prose!!
MA
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A taste of Rand washed down with a vintage tol’ ya’ so…mighty fine…mighty fine.
Thanks Muck!
There are so many stories people have – the world is full of morons, and unfortunately big corps place so many roadblocks in the way, many people just give in and accept the shafting. After all, it is only $1, $2, $5 dollars.
TC, MSG, Card, General, Paulo, TE, Buckhed, REPUP, IS, WestC., et al.
et al – thanks for the great stories!
I tend to no longer reply to bb, for, well, the standard reasons, but given he has posted on my article, I will.
bb says how tough he is in person, and calls what we are doing abusive. I clearly said I use no profanity.
Those rare times that employees have responded to me as bb suggests he might, I have generally managed to get them fired. I probably have an 80% success rate. You see, customers that do not use profanity can get away with a lot. But employees cannot. And I am a determined sort of fellow. I know how to apply pressure – and I am happy to spend the time doing it. I happily call supervisors, managers, VPs, CEOs, write letters to newspapers and industry groups, and name names. And what has generally happened is eventually I find out that bb he don’t work for us no more, can you please let up now?
In my career, I have fired a lot of folks for incompetence – in essence, for being morons. It is necessary if a business is to be successful. The business must come first.
I related a story above where I saw to the career demise of an idiot CEO.
I have been responsible for the firing of quite a number of employees that work for suppliers, and, surprisingly, a significant number of employees that work for customers. I intended to get them fired, and I sleep fine about it. Those folks were either impacting my business, or a risk of so doing.
If I have to deal with incompetent people (ie morons), invariably it will affect my business. And not in a good way – it will cost me money, it will impact the quality of my product, it will delay delivery, etc.
So if I find that one of my suppliers employs someone who is incompetent that I deem a risk of impacting my business, whether or not it has actually happened yet, I begin to work to eliminate that risk.
I do not have time to deal with incompetent people – I run a very lean operation, and it must react and respond very rapidly. Ultimately, incompetent people take up time, and they will eventually cost you – sometimes severely, sometimes only a little. But they will cost you. I suppose Billy and SSS could comment on how incompetent military personnel might be handled – I suspect that the other personnel want them out of the way before the shit hits the fan, not after. Same goes for my business.
And the same situation goes for customers. Initially, one might think that I would have little sway over who my customers employ. That is not true.
I am able to make the same case – that they have an incompetent employee, and that that customer’s employee is either costing me money, or is a risk of it. And that the customer will ultimately have to assume my costs. And of course, when I cannot deliver because of the incompetent employee’s mistake, or I have to increase prices, I will HAVE to notify all levels in the chain of responsibility how I had warned about this incompetent employee, and no one listened, etc etc etc.
And so, while it takes a while longer, I generally find I am able to get those folks removed from the customer entirely, or re-assigned such that they cannot impact my business. And, lo and behold, my customers’ businesses are better for it, too.
I have many times said I do not believe in mistakes. I also do not believe in allowing incompetent folks to place cost and risk upon my business.
When I protect my business, the reality is that I am also protecting my suppliers and customers. They do not always recognize that fact however.
” … how incompetent military personnel might be handled …” ——Llpoh
They get promoted UP ….. eventually they become Generals …. then they get a gig on CuNNt or Fux Newz
Love your work LLPOH!
Nice to see it confirmed that the rest of the world has the *exact* same problems as where I live – South Africa. Only, our telco/mobile operators have not outsourced their help-desks to Manila, yet.
Thanks, une.
Another story:
There was this sales rep who was a pain in the ass. Nice enough guy, but never shut up, and once on site, he would go around yapping to anyone he could get hold of. I grew tired of it – after knowing him for about a month.
So I called his boss, and said “I do not want Hughie coming around or calling anymore, please send someone else. I have no hard feelings, I do not want to get into why, just keep him away, and make sure he does not call me again.”
Well, Hughie was told, but he could not stand it, he just had to know why. So, he came around even though he had been told to stay away. Had to know what he had done wrong. So I told him – you are boring, you waste my time and everyone else’s time, you do not take a hint, and you never know when to leave. I did not want to hurt his feelings, but he just could not leave well enough alone, and he left in tears (55 year old man).
Well, wouldn’t you know it, but word got out to Hughie’s other customers that I had banned poor Hughie (he released the info, telling them what a dead bastard I was, and what I had said about him) and I started getting calls about it. Probably a dozen companies called me, people I did not even know existed, about what I did to Hughie.
They wanted to know exactly what I had said, and to whom, so that they could ban Hughie, too. Seems some had put up with him for many, many years, and were stunned to find out that it was actually possible to get rid of him. They were overjoyed at the prospect, and proceeded to ban him too.
In fact, so many banned him that he lost his job, because he ended up with no customers to rep to.
If Hughie had kept his mouth shut, he would have been fine. Or if he simply would have done what he was told, and dropped contact with me, he would have been fine.
But nope, as is often the case, morons simply cannot resist blowing their own foot off.
For years after, I would run into someone who would thank me for getting them out from under Hughie.
By the way, to those who would have liked to see “the Show”, as Stuck put it, at Apple, I once put on a show that was overheard by a number of acquaintances.
Later, I was told how in awe they all were – they said I abused some poor fuck for half an hour non-stop, never repeated myself, and never cursed once. I cannot remember the circumstances right at the moment, but it may come to me.
It is a gift. What can I say.
I don’t have that gift. I don’t yell, don’t curse, but when someone starts running down their list of tactics designed to wear me down, I start getting creative. I suggest the world might be a better place if they would kill themselves, ask how aware they are, that at some point they cease to be a decent person working at a scummy company and just become scumbags. By which point the adults in the room are trying to take the phone away from me.
Llpoh
You are an absolute FUCKING PRICK !!!
Please take that as a compliment.
Quick story. I called on manufacturing companies for many years selling MRP/ERP type software. One account was in Holland, MI — they manufactured farm stuff, mostly silos and various mixers. Anyway, the owner was a REALLY SWELL guy. really. Friendly, outgoing, funny, and always, always made time for me and my team. Lemme get to the point; after TWO FUCKING YEARS of endless demos and presentations the motherfucker chose a competitor!! In fact, I later found out we NEVER had a snowball’s chance of getting the business. Not that he didn’t like us. He did … that’s why he kept letting us in. He just didn’t like the hardware platform we ran on …. IBM.
Cocksucking motherfucker wasted two fucking years of my time. You, on the other hand, if you didn’t like IBM, would have told me to go pound sand rather promptly. Right? YOU are actually a salesman’s dream … no nonsense, no bullshit.
BTW, I fully accepted MY OWN stupidity / gullibility in not recognizing that I was being played. I was new to sales at the time. That mistake didn’t occur again.
llpoh, your post at 9:26 above sums up the truth about morons and that was the larger point I was trying to make about the morons on this site. We allowed them to take over our country which affects every one of us. Giving the morons any traction here on TBP will eventually have the same effect. Their bullshit is akin to dragging an anchor while motoring upriver. I can negate that effect by ignoring them here but that doesn’t work in business.
Incompetent military personnel are handled different ways by different people, depending on rank of course.
Long anecdote, but the backstory is necessary to explain the outcome… sorry if it bores some of you all.
We came down on orders for deployment. Once things like that happen, your world gets very busy, very quickly. Loddie-doddie, everybody.
You have to inventory all your equipment for accountability and serviceability. Not just your personal equipment, but also anything assigned to your section or platoon – vehicles, radios, support stuff, tools, etc. Once everything is accounted for and you’ve made sure it’s working, you have to put all that stuff in what’s called a connex insert.
The connex insert. Think “gigantic, heavy duty shoebox”. I don’t know the exact dimensions, but they’re at least waist high, about 3 or 4 feet wide and a bit longer. You put all your stuff in these and they’re marked with who, what, where, etc, and banded shut. At which point, a forklift comes around, picks it up and puts it into the connex box (big steel shipping box). A fully loaded connex insert is pretty damn heavy. Which explains the forklift.
So, we get to the “banded shut” point and we’re waiting for the guy with the forklift to come around and put our inserts into the connex box. Can’t abandon all our stuff right there and pin a note on it, telling forklift guy what to do, so we have to stay with our stuff. I didn’t want anyone running off and being unaccounted for, so I kept everyone there.
Along comes our Battalion XO – a Major. After I call everyone to attention and salute him, it starts…
Him: “What are you all doing?”
Me: (as ranking guy) “Sir, we’re waiting for the forklift to put these in the connex box. After this, we have X and X and X to do..”
Him: (makes grumble noise and walks off)
Me: “Well, that was pleasant.”
10 minutes later, he comes back. Same drill.
Him: “How long have you all been waiting for the forklift.”
Me: “Sir, I’d guess we’ve been waiting about a half an hour or so.”
Him: “We need to get these inserts loaded. We’re wasting too much time.”
Me: “Yes, sir. But I have no alternative. We only have the one forklift.”
Him: “How many men do you have?”
Me: “Sir?” (slightly confused, but I think I know where this is going)
Him: “Get all your guys together and put those inserts in the connex box by hand.”
Me: “You want us to – lift – this, sir? And put them in the connex box? By hand?”
Him: “That is correct, Sergeant.”
I could see that this was a bad idea. A very bad idea. Reason being, I could see instantly that the guys in front would have to break off as the insert made it’s way into the connex box, putting the entire weight of the insert on the guys behind, putting them at serious risk. It was – literally – too heavy. I tried to tell the Major this.
Me: “Sir, I think that is a bad idea. The insert is much too heavy, and…”
Him: “When I want your opinion, Sergeant, I will tell you what it is. Now get those inserts loaded.”
Me: “Yes… sir.. (pronounced c-u-r)”
So… since none of us had ever been Egyptian slaves before and moved anything of this size and weight, we had to figure it out… me included. A general consensus amongst us was that the stronger guys would have to be in back, as the full weight would eventually fall on them as the smaller guys bailed out in front…
It made quite the sight. 25+ guys carrying this huge insert across the motor pool towards it’s destination. I was reminded of a bunch of ants carring a Froot Loop… don’t know what the exact weight was, but since we had all our radios, spare parts, tools, etc, in it, it had to go at least a few thousand pounds.
We eventually got the insert in the connex. At cost. We had broken fingers, thumbs, and more than one had a sprained back or some other muscle. I set up a triage in the shade of the connex, trying to provide what comfort and care I could for the injured and sent a runner for the medic…
Meanwhile, our Battalion Commander comes over. A Colonel. The XO was a few paces behind him. I tried to call those able to attention, but he waived us off…
Colonel: “What happened here, son?”
Old school southern accent… good for me.
Me: “Sir, we put the insert into the connex by hand. We have some injuries. We’re doing what we can for the injured, and I’ve sent for the medics…”
Colonel: (incredulous) “You did this on your own initiative?”
Me: “No, sir. We were ordered to do so.”
Colonel: (now pissed) “By whom?”
Me: (pointing to the Major with as much anger as I could screw onto my face) “He did, sir.”
Colonel: (to Major) “Is that true Major? Did you order these men to load that by hand?”
Major: “Yes, sir. I did. And…”
Colonel: “You’re fucking fired.”
My jaw dropped. The Major just got relieved for cause! Here, in front of us, God and everyone! That is a career ending move right there, and is a card that is rarely played. It was, in a word, EPIC! Officers are almost never relieved for cause. If they are, they might as well resign their commission, because from that moment on, they are going nowhere.
It’s even rarer for someone to witness it, firsthand. Usually, these things happen quietly, behind closed doors… To have it happen in front of us EM’s and NCO’s? Unheard of. The Colonel must have done it this way to send a message, make an example. And that message was loud and clear.
The Major started to protest, but the Colonel would have none of it.
He cut him off: “You’ve jeopardized our mission by ordering these men to do something completely unnecessary, and now several are injured. They are probably not deployable due to their injuries, which now puts this platoon at about 60% strength. You’re fired and that’s the end of it. Captain so-and-so will take over your duties until we can get a proper XO”. And with that, he turned on his heel and walked off…
The Major was literally apoplectic… but he was gone within the day. Never saw him again, and I did not want to ask about him… no way would I risk that.
Once they were out of earshot, we managed a cheer… score one for our side!
@Stuck, re: McDs.
I was outvoted by a tired 9 yo that had been a real trooper, and great aunt in the pouring rain for nearly 24 hours. It was what my daughter wanted.
As for me, I didn’t have enough coffee, the complementary breakfast left much to be desired if you didn’t want carbs, I had enjoyed a few beers at my nephew’s wedding, and then back at the hotel in the pool the night before, and needed the caffeine, sugar-type substance, and high fat content, plus the baby fell asleep almost as soon as her butt hit her car seat. She was in the water 2 hours the night before and almost 3 before we packed and left the hotel. Plus the wedding and reception.
I only drank about an inch of the “medium” (which is the old large from the 70s, way too much pop for a human) and ended up throwing it out. I didn’t eat most of my lunch either, but was enough to get us home to coconut coffee and hummus and pita.
Sometimes crap tastes good, not very often anymore, all I can taste is the chemicals, but sometimes I crave it nonetheless. Not Sunday though, that was a sleeping 2 yo and American 9 yo through and through.
TE
OK, that ‘splains it quite well. For a moment I was afraid you went over to THE DARK SIDE. But … only for a moment. 🙂
Nope, Stuck, the more pure I eat, the less I can tolerate the standard ‘Murkin “food.”
I used to live on Doritos and Pepsi, then Coke, now Doritos taste like hell and a Coke only tastes worth it if from Mexico (pure cane sugar) and ice cold in a glass bottle. If I drink much more than 8 ounces of American Coke, my arthritis flares up. Since it is all but a distant memory (unless overworking with my hands, like when painting, or data entry), and I know soda makes it so, I don’t drink much, but my slight hangover made me think it would be okay. It wasn’t. Thanks for caring!
“I suppose Billy and SSS could comment on how incompetent military personnel might be handled – I suspect that the other personnel want them out of the way before the shit hits the fan, not after.”
—-Llpoh
Don’t think I can top Billy’s story, but I had to deal with a totally incompetent full colonel when I was stationed in Germany, and so did everyone else on his sizable staff. The word gets around fast on those type of people and eventually got to the colonel’s boss, a major general. I was among a few staff officers the general called in to inquire about the colonel. I told the general not just what I thought, but also what the colonel was doing to ruin morale and productivity. Evidently, so did the other officers.
The colonel was suddenly reassigned to another base and a job that required well-honed people skills (that general was really smart in handling the situation and sending the colonel to an assignment he couldn’t handle). The colonel was relieved of duty in less than 6 months and put in his retirement papers immediately.
Billy/SSS/Stuck – funny stuff. Upper level military jockeying must be like a giant game of musical chairs.
Stuck – very few sales reps come see me. I guess I lack charm or something. My partner keeps abreast of latest tech, by travelling world-wide to conventions. We know what we want – if we want something we seek it out. Otherwise, please do not bother us.