Libertarians on Why Libertarianism is Failing

Speaking as a reformed libertarian all I can say is – yes.

Human beings may be individuals but at our base, we are also social creatures who, by and large, do not live in ivory towers and give a lot of thought to political philosophy.

Culture matters and as cultural groups (which exist whether libertarians like it or not) feel threatened they will naturally tribe up. That will never, ever change and it is the reason why many are abandoning libertarianism for greener alt light and alt right pastures.

Some call it “the awakening of whitey”. What it really is, is a natural defense mechanism as old as mankind itself.


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WIP
WIP
May 13, 2017 1:41 pm

I think we’ll see human do much more bizarre things and think/act in more crazy ways as technology improves and population grows. Look at experiments with mice…the ones that shows what happens as they become too many in their environment.

i forget
i forget
May 13, 2017 4:07 pm

I like that tribe & culture are popular “solutions” (or “defenses”) here. For the exercise. So, some reps:

“We are” is a generalization. & the underlying idea of these “we are’s” is might makes homogenization – into brands, into store shelf sections – not only right, but inevitable. “All swans are white” – or they ain’t right. But it only takes one black swan to wreck that theory – & there’s lots of black plumage out there; always has been – even tho just not nearly so much as the white feathers.

Unfortunately, for too many white swans, the reaction to seeing (or just projecting – no shortage of that) black feathers is fight or flight. It freaks them out. Self-actualization (was written about recently) or flock immunizations & “security”? SA – whatever that is…but selves, definitely – gets traded away, eagerly, most of the time. “Because” “we are social creatures…there is a social contract…”…yadda-dabba-do: Fred & Barney are wholly representative cartoon cutouts & always will be.

Except it ain’t true. I’m living proof. You could say I’m a (bad little)German swan from the Black Forest. (Not to mention that when I have a piece of Black Forest cake in front of me, I have at it, eat it, never think about trying to have Schrödinger’s Black Forest cake.)

I’ve been around, often surrounded by, lots of cliques & claques & tribes that were threatened by black (or white, when they were black, etc), or saw it as an opportunity to plump up “identities.” I never joined any of them, & I never will. As many times as that shit hit my fan, I just did the best I could. Won some. Lost some. That’s life. Right up to that once & for all loss. Which comes for homogenized & individual alike. The inevitable is irrelevant. Spending resources on irrelevant is waste. Life is short enough – I hate waste.

I ain’t with, or agin – unless agin me come at me, or mine (which also isn’t synonym for tribe).

Like Thomas Wolfe, Hunter Thompson – both Southern gentlemen:

“We are all alone, born alone, die alone, and—in spite of True Romance magazines—we shall all someday look back on our lives and see that, in spite of our company, we were alone the whole way. I do not say lonely—at least, not all the time—but essentially, and finally, alone. This is what makes your self-respect so important, and I don’t see how you can respect yourself if you must look in the hearts and minds of others for your happiness.”

― Hunter S. Thompson, The Proud Highway: Saga of a Desperate Southern Gentleman, 1955-1967

Arcayer
Arcayer
May 13, 2017 6:46 pm

First off, it’s not true that libertarians achieve nothing in the modern day. Marijuana was just legalized, that’s huge.

Of course, libertarians don’t have a large ingroup psychology, (at least, relatively) so once a movement goes mainstream it isn’t called libertarian. However, ending the drug war has been one of the main focuses of libertarianism for decades, and wasn’t popular with any other movement. By any measure of- X result was aimed for and then produced, marijuana is a libertarian win.

I should also note that Gary Johnson got a very high percent of vote in the latest election, compared to previous ones.

The actual rank and file libertarian aren’t the academics. Sure, we’re the ones who like chatting and writing books about how great liberty is. But, the masses, the mainstream opposition to government, are the criminals. With enough criminals, laws because unenforceable. Once they’re unenforceable the punishments become arbitrary and don’t feel like wins anymore because the problem doesn’t go away at all.

Libertarians tend to be weak in times of growth. People are satisfied with their legal stipend, and are too afraid to turn to crime. The movement is actually pretty strong on some fronts, since people can’t find emotional satisfaction in the modern age, but there aren’t many financial criminals right now. In as much as there are, they’re mostly people who have been regulated out of the job market and turn to black markets in illegal goods where they can garner food and status. They aren’t much of a threat to the corporations, who’s rule steadily grows stronger.

If enough smart, rich, motivated individuals find themselves incapable of working their way into the nobility, that will change, but new technology opens new resources which go straight to the powerful and ambitious, who in turn bribe any potential threat so they don’t cause too much of a ruckus. This isn’t sustainable, but these processes often do take over a century. It’s funny how humans only have the patience to wait a few years, but history takes millennia to play out.

That said, I’m unimpressed by those who grow impatient and insist on “winning”. Turning to nationalism because you can score points with the masses accomplishes, basically nothing. The alt-right was largely lined up behind Trump this election, they were ecstatic at his victory. For many, who had grown tired pursuing agendas they couldn’t pass, this was a unique high.

But it’s just an illusion. They’ve already sold out their principles, so winning doesn’t net them those. But it’s even worse. They’ve gotten used to sellouts, liars and talking big, so, predictably, we don’t get what we were promised. No repeal and replace. No normalized relationship with Russia. No end to the Iraq quagmire. No draining of the swamp. No Hillary prosecution. No wall.

So far, immigration is down, and the supreme court has a new, conservative, member. On the other hand, this isn’t really something all that unique to Trump, and it’s questionable whether republicans won because or in spite of his efforts. Democrats, with their Pied Piper strategy, were confident that Trump was more of a benefit than a problem, I’m inclined to believe their expertise.

Being a libertarian isn’t about winning. If you want that, just become a republican, or, better yet, just go cheer for some sports team. Libertarianism is about being correct. As for libertarians vanishing, or the rise of the alt-right, such fancy events won’t occur. Labels may shift, and people will try to wager on candidates like drunken gamblers, forming emotional connections to abstract concepts completely unrelated to them, but reality is much more simplistic.

The success/failure paradigm is just another forced boolean and is not relevant in a physical sense.

i forget
i forget
  Arcayer
May 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Nationalism = firing up the sausage grinder & running it until the brushes melt or the windings arc or the motor gets repossessed by “the other.”

Winning’s a side effect, or it ain’t anything at all. Few see that, or can stand the thought of it. Or, make it about winning & you’ve already lost – no matter how it turns out.

The wall (comes tumblin’ down): Lavoisier was high IQ. Contributed much to the march of science progress. He was also a born aristo. Was a tax farmer. And the wall around Paris was his idea. Nobody could enter\exit the city except thru toll gates in the wall. Armed guards measured all goods in\out, kept records used for imposing taxes. Lav’s above average head was fed to the guillotine. South was free to go – until they announced all their ports would be free (no tariff wall). New York said invade & that’s what happened.

Stone-headed masons, of whatever degree, will do what they do. Walleye fishing’s, a better pastime.

Ignatius J Reilly
Ignatius J Reilly
  Francis Marion
May 14, 2017 8:31 am

Libertarianism would work great if everybody would do it, but they won’t. Anytime you get a group of people together there’s always some asshole trying to get over on his fellow man.