President Trump talks of dismantling the tax code. What taxes should we pay? How much should we pay? What should the Government actually be responsible for?
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Question of the Day, Sep 14
IRS Form 1040 of 1913: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/1913.pdf
US Income Tax Form of 1864: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040–1864.pdf
As the vast majority of Americans are completely ignorant of what our Constitution states regarding taxation, and that they have been brainwashed and indoctrinated for decades into thinking that taxation is mandatory – I suppose it would be ludicrous to actually expect our government to return to the restrictions placed upon their ability to tax us, contained within our Constitution.
Kitty…..payment of Federal Income Tax is Voluntary; the IRS booklets, like the 1040, state as such. It doesn’t matter too much what the Constitution states on taxation.
I either voluntarily pay my Federal Taxes or go to jail.
Then they give you cancer and chain you to a
bed in a jail/prison on the other side of the country.
Value Added Tax and eliminate the IRS.
The only taxes that are guaranteed to be paid by thee and I are consumption taxes. Sales Tax for the less than economically educated. Value Added Taxes(VAT) like they have in Europe and elsewhere can and are “fiddled”. But when you buy a six-pack of beer and pay a % tax on the retail price, you can’t “fiddle” that one away.
Unfortunately, big business treats a sales tax as a cost of doing business and just tacks it on the wholesale price they charge retailers.
At least that lets you and I look at the price and say, “That’s too damn much to pay and I won’t buy it for that price!” If enough people say that, pretty soon the business figures out a way to market their products cheaper or they close their doors, as it should be.
The BIG GUYS, however, don’t have to play that game.. They whine and whimper to the FEDS and get a subsidy – paid for by printed funny money – to make up the difference between a higher cost of product and lower sales price.. NOT FAIR and will eventually turn us into Greece or one other of those stupid places.
muck
The government won’t stop until you give them every last dime you make
At that point it’s called socialism my friends…….
In a Unicorn world, there would only be one Individual Tax and a Separate Corporation Tax. All would pay the specific percentages defined for each.
There wouldn’t be any stealth taxes or fees like you see on your phone bill or utility bill.
In a unicorn world there would only be tarriffs for the Feds, the states would do to their residents what they would, and people would vote with their feet.
You know, like before the Whiskey Rebellion was put down like a rabid Ebola-monkey, and the Federalists seized control for the (((Eternal Anglos))).
If you believe theft is defined by the taking of something that doesn’t belong to you without the rightful owner’s permission then let’s rephrase the question: What level of theft should an honest person support? Or perhaps, who or what group is it moral to steal from? Or maybe the real question is why does theft become moral and laudable when done by the fictional entity called government?
The people who pay the taxes dont want or need what the taxes they pay, pay for. So, zero. However, a consumption tax is the least regressive.
I think consumption and some form of wealth tax would be a better way to fund government than taxing income.
Here is why. Thurston Howell III inherits a Van Gogh his grandfather bought for $50,000 and it is now worth $50 million. He did nothing to ‘earn’ that capital appreciation except keep the painting hanging on his mansion wall for his private enjoyment. His ‘basis’ for capital gains tax is the value of the painting when he inherited it which is subjective and hard to ascertain given Van Gogh’s don’t sell that often.
OTOH Jim Anderson invents a medical device that helps sick people and receives $50 million dollars in patent royalties. He is taxed at the highest income tax rate.
Why not make people like Howell pay 1% per year tax on their ‘wealth’. Howell can pay $500,000 per year to keep that Van Gogh on his wall or he can sell it and invest the money with more productive people like Mr. Anderson the inventor. Alternatively he could ‘donate’ the Van Gogh to a public museum so everyone can enjoy it, hang a copy on his mansion wall, and have a $50 million wealth tax credit to keep his collection of vintage automobiles intact.
The larger point is tying up huge pools of capital in art collections and collectibles maybe shrewd under current tax law but benefits no one. Nelson Rockefeller didn’t collect Rembrandts he invested in the work of then living artists helping to establish them and make their work valuable. A man who buys a 1956 Ferrari adds nothing to the current economy besides auction fees but were he to spend $2 million on a new Bugatti he is creating work for today’s exotic car builders.
I tend to agree with this type of thinking. It is very unpopular on this blog.
Taxes are a social weapon used to engineer millions of people to do what government wants them to do. Social engineering. It’s like a whip used on us slaves.
Up until the early 20th century, by which time the US was already a modern, industrial economy, the federal government was financed almost solely by excises, tariffs and fees.
The constitution is clear about taxes. Indirect taxes are okay (excises). Direct taxes (income) have to be apportioned to the states. Even the income tax is fucked up. Income is capital gains (corporate profits and dividends). The income tax was not originally meant to apply to wages and did not until the Victory Tax Act of 1942, which automatically sunsetted in 1944.
The whole fucking IRS is a criminal racket.
The government should be responsible for everyone’s education from age three through college, food, shelter, clothing, health care (it’s a right) and internet and mobile phone services. Taxes should be raised on the rich and corporations to pay for this.
How can healthcare be a ‘Right’ when it must be provided by another person? If healthcare is a ‘right’ then a plantation owner also had the ‘right’ to order slaves to pick his cotton! Its the same thing. Demanding the ‘right’ to the labor of another.
Rights can only be bestowed by God. I have a ‘right’ to liberty and that liberty includes the freedom to work or not work. You cannot demand a doctor provide you with his services unless you believe you have the ‘right’ to take his labor!
Marsh Rabbit’s icon is different than usual; somebody may be doppleganging.
I didn’t post this. To whoever did, the fact that you had to stoop to this level exposes how weak your position is.
I guess I shall piss into the wind again.
In the 1860’s a state chartered bank in Maine called Veazie Bank challenged the 1866 10% private bank note “private note death tax” levied on notes of private persons, state banks and state banking associations.
This case eventually landed in the SCOTUS under the case called “Veazie Bank v. Fenno, 75 U.S. 533 (1869)”.
The bank protested and gave the SCOTUS two grievances. 1: That it was a direct tax and had not been apportioned according to population. 2: That the act imposing the tax impairs a franchise granted by the State, and that Congress has no power to pass any law with that intent or effect.
Unfortunately for this bank it was state charted. The monetary powers of the U.S. are plenary (total and complete) to the federal congress. NOT a state legislature or whatever. The SCOTUS promptly deep sixed the banks grievances with this holding.
“It cannot be doubted that under the Constitution the power to provide a circulation of coin is given to Congress. And it is settled by the uniform practice of the government and by repeated decisions, that Congress may constitutionally authorize the emission of bills of credit. … Having thus, in the exercise of undisputed constitutional powers, undertaken to provide a currency for the whole country, it cannot be questioned that Congress may, constitutionally, secure the benefit of it to the people by appropriate legislation. To this end, Congress has denied the quality of legal tender to foreign coins, and has provided by law against the imposition of counterfeit and base coin on the community. —-> To the same end, Congress may restrain, by suitable enactments, the circulation as money of any notes not issued under its own authority. <—-.
What this says is that any bank NOTES not issued under the direct authority of congress are subject to this tax or any other restraints; (more taxes) congress may want to enact in the future. The alternative to this is any notes issued directly by congressional enactments ARE NOT subject to this tax/restraint (think greenbacks/ United States notes).
Now move forward 12 years to 1881 and to a man named William Springer. He challenged the first income tax of 1864. This case is still cited today by the IRS as their authority to collect the income tax on wages…..NOT the 16th amendment, that is a wholly separate tax and the Springer case is 32 years prior to the ratification of the 16th amendment.
Mr Springer must have been paid in bank credit notes that were not directly authorized by the federal congress as the SCOTUS held that he had to pay the tax. The prior case 75 U.S. 533 (1869) is cited two times in Springer.
Here is the logic. You have choice (voluntary) on what kind of money you can use. Use the money that has been provided by direct authority given to the congress by the Constitution and no tax is due. As that would be government taxing a government function which is forbidden. OR
Use private credit created by banks or bitcoin or whatever and pay the tax that aims to restrain the total money supply growth. Because indeed if there was no way to drain off the bank credit creation, the money would have hyper inflated away decades ago.
Social security, medicare/caid and the O'Care Penalty are all additions (additional restraints) to the original bank note death tax of 1866.
Veazie Bank v. Fenno, 75 U.S. 533 (1869) is the lynch pin that ties the whole damn thing together. If you understand it…you will understand the current system of income taxation.
BTW the federal reserve system is a private bank…just in case you didn't know. What's in your wallet?
Once again, let’s try to flip the perspective. Let’s not think about this in terms of the % of our income in dollars that goes to government…let’s think in terms of productive TIME.
In the Old Roman Republic, Roman citizens (which was a coveted thing to be and hard to achieve) paid roughly 2 days wages toward taxes. For this they had access to roads, schools, libraries, aqueducts, protection from invaders, etc.
There is your answer: 2 FUCKING DAYS.
Of course, by the time of the Fall, they would grant citizenship to anyone who could fog a mirror and the number was closer to 200 days. Sound familiar?
All I know is the real estate taxes are the most unjust tax. Why should you pay taxes on something you bought with after-tax dollars. Why should I pay more than a person living in a cheaper home. Will the police and fireman get to my house faster than the cheap one, NO. Why should I pay more for the schooling of the children living in the cheaper house. I had to send my children to private schools because the public schools sucked ass.
Team Goy #432
Ok, so far there has been a lot of ideas on how much we should pay, but what about the other part of the question. What should the government be responsible for?
Assuming we are talking about the federal government, that is fairly clear per the Constitution. Defense, money, post office, roads and courts. Not much else. It’s been a while since I’ve read the document so I may have missed something. Essentially, most of the $3.65T in spending goes to things that are not items that are legally under the federal governments purview.
Roads? Don’t think the Constitution mentions that. Federal highways are maintained and built with federal fuel taxes. Some state/local jurisdictions also tax fuel, and use that to maintain roads. Also local bonds are raised to build local highways and roads, or by charging a toll.
First, I think Trump has no intention of ‘dismantling’ the tax code, and if he does, he certainly does not have the ability, so this is mainly mental masturbation on our part. I actually don’t mind paying taxes for roads, fire departments, border control, a national guard/coast guard, etc. Even public schools, if they were handled at the local/county level, are fine with me. You know, the things we think of the government doing. My problem with taxation is how very little of the money we pay actually goes towards those things. Most of it pays for warfare/security state that makes us less safe and less free, entitlement programs that perpetuate poverty, interest on our odious debt.
I certainly favor drastically reduced rates, but the problem with that is one of simple math: if we don’t also drastically reduce spending, the result will only be more debt, which will eventually lead to even higher taxes. I’ve seen and heard nothing out of trump or the rest of the GOP that leads me to believe any of them are serious about real spending cuts. And, unlike reaching across the aisle for help from Pelosi and Schumer to help allow foreign squatters to stay here and eventually vote his party out of office, permanently, Trump will get no help from them on spending cuts.
Its easy to say you favor a consumption tax, as that does sound the most fair, but it will just go upwards and upwards, until pretty soon we are paying as much of more than we were before. Just ask the Europeans how they like their VAT. Much like the original income tax, that took a couple % from only the very wealthy, it quickly crept upwards in amounts, and downwards in income brackets. A consumption tax would likely do the same.
Couldn’t agree more that it is all mental masturbation. The system will continue as it is until it cannot. The only people able to make the vast and rapid changes necessary have ZERO incentive to do so.
Empires collapse–it’s what they do. It could be a Geiko commercial.
Let me explain this to you from Satan’s point of view.You work in my world system .This my joint .God even says so.Your taxes are simply tithes and offerings you bring into my storehouse.You are my slave .Now stop pissing and moaning and pay your damn taxes until my angel of death comes to collect your SIN Debt. Sincerely Your Father the DEVIL.
Beebs, you make an awesome Devil’s advocate. Keep up the bad work.
If you ever come back the the light side, stop by and say high.
High, Maggita!
“What taxes should we pay?” —— none
“How much should we pay?” ——- zero
“What should the Government actually be responsible for?” —– everything
I’m surprised no one else came up wif dis.
I say nothing, nothing, nothing.
Taxes will go up, all the while we’ll be told they are being cut. The parasites are out of control and growing ever larger, therefore it is axiomatic that taxes must rise to pay for them. We either pay directly through increased taxation, or indirectly through increased currency destruction.
You don’t pay taxes–they TAKE taxes as Chris Rock said once.
No level of theft is the right amount.
Bring back a value based monetary system and we’ll all quickly learn how much the sheople are willing to pay and how much the govt is willing to piss away. It will essentially be the inverse of what we all enjoy today.
I’d do away with the income tax and ALL other taxes and tax related fees then adopt a nationwide sales tax of 15% with 7.5% going to the feds and 7.5% going to the states that also outlaws ALL other taxes. I’d also tie it to a 20 year sunset clause that automatically ends that law (and the revenue) unless approved by a majority vote of the sheople and ALL increases would require a majority vote of the sheople. When I talk voting I’m not talking about the rigged system we have today. Biometric ID required, limited to legal citizens, not residents, you vote in person and get an indelible purple Iraqi finger for your effort.
Make the Budget public and comprehensive; people will start demanding specific cuts. If they want more Democrat Welfare Taxes and less Defense, the Smart People will leave and the FSA will be very sorry very soon (ref every Socialist country, county and city that ever existed). Praise God and Support the Original Constitution: MAGA.
I like the Articles of Confederation better than the Constitution.
^^THIS^^
The last gasp of the anti-federalists in this country was the war of northern aggression. The federalists won, and we are all worse off.
The parasite class weighs in:
“you boyz bes keep on a payin’ all yous taxes. I needs me my free shit an my chillins needs it too”.
Which makes me think- are we participating in some kind of neo-slavery?
The parasite class is upset whites 2 centuries ago forced them to work against their will to benefit others.
The tax payer class today is forced to work against their will to benefit others.
From current govt expenditures subtract all welfare, including SS, half of defence spending, all EPA costs, dept of education costs, all medical related costs, and increase infrastructure spending by say half. Take that number and create a sales tax to cover it, and eliminate all personal income taxes.
Re the states – same basic story. No welfare, medical, etc. expenditures. Basic services and education only. Cover the cost with a sales tax.
Done.
SS is not welfare. Don’t equate the two.
SS may be a transfer tax not sanctioned by the Constitution, but it is not welfare.
Of course its welfare. It is a tax that goes into general revenue. Current moloyees pay for the old. It is doled out not based on how much went in. People collect far more than thy pay. It is absolutely welfare. If it was a banked amount I would agree. But because it is lumped into general revenue, and is not relative to what is paid in, it is welfare.
Mexicans celebrate their baptism day as well as their birthday. I’m informed that the September 17th is Constitution Day here in America, the real birthdate of the country. Join us as we celebrate the independence day of Mexico, Central America and the good old USA this weekend!
Be sure to tune in to Univision as Peña Nieto celebrates Mexico’s battle cry – El Grito de Dolores – tonight at midnight.
Viva Mexico! VivaUSA!
https://youtu.be/a5vPIMPoZM0
https://www.thoughtco.com/mexican-independence-the-cry-of-dolores-2136414
“half of defence spending”. Are you proposing a 50% cut in military pay?
If the imperial government is to be run like a business, shouldn’t we be getting anual dividend checks *from* the government?
Still waiting for the US military to turn a profit, like the US Post Office is apparently supposed to.
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STUCKY!!!!
I’m trying to get your attention.
I want to submit a question of the day.
Q: What do you think is or will be the mark of the beast?
My A: Smart phones. They will eventually be used for everything and can be totally controlled by a third party. Have you seen the new iPhone? Facial recognition will be a requirement one day. Bet on it. Also, isn’t the mark of the beast referenced to the hand?
Please consider this question as a future QOTD.
Mark of the beast will be when cash disappears in favor of digital currency only.
I thought Hitlary was the mark of the beast?
Fair Tax. I want that one. National consumption-only 20-24% sales tax collected by states at point of sale turned into the govt. No withholding, no alternative minimum, no death tax, no W2 forms. Just a tax on transactions. Revenue neutral or even positive. No options to change it or shoehorn in special interests.
Stucky is a moron but what do you expect of someone who can’t discern truth from fiction!!!
But, he’s stumbled onto one true thing – citizens should pay zero tax.
We do so only because the financial elite have convinced the masses that debt is money. And they want to make sure there is no escape from debt by eliminating cash. So only a monetary system without debt and without interest makes sense. Unfortunately, debt and interest free money can only come from government… and who would trust any government presently in existence. Right, no one.
So. We’ll stumble along until the Stucky’s of the world wake the hell up to Truth and simply grow the fuck up and become Real Adults of God, rather than mere children.
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Stucky likes to stir the shit but he is no dummy.
TBP, imo, is lucky to have him back.
Thanks WIP. I will be working on your QOTD (mark of the beast) probably later this morning.
Now I gotta pay some attention to Mark Ham Brain.
Stucky- Just yesterday there was a story on Drudge Report about chipping everyone in the hand. Get this, not only would you not be able to buy anything without being chipped but you also would not be able to drive your car.
if I can find the story, will post at the bottom of this comment.
https://www.infowars.com/implanted-microchip-to-replace-credit-cards-car-keys/
“Stucky is a moron but what do you expect of someone who can’t discern truth from fiction!!! But, he’s stumbled onto one true thing – citizens should pay zero tax.”
—— Mark Ham Brains
My God! I pity you for the pig shit occupying your cranial orb!!
Where in the fuck is government supposed to get revenue for at least the very basic necessities for the common good? A military for DEFENSE, for one. And roads … which actually is in the Constitution (for postal delivery. Get all the necessary revenue from Corporations? Puh-lease!
Nobody likes paying taxes. But it’s what every civilized nation has been doing for many millennia, even back to ancient Egypt. Every scheme proposed whereby people pay zero taxes is just intellectual masturbation …. something you have expertise in.
You want to see what life is like under your misguided utopian tax free society? Go to the Amazonian jungle. Better yet, go to Somalia …. you know, with one of your black girlfriends. Just make sure you file a will to leave your $1.85 estate to your heirs.
If your shit brain actually had synapses you would have realized my post was PURE SARCASM. The last sentence should have been your clue, Einstein —- “I’m surprised no one else came up wif dis.”. The “wif dis” is code for Kneegrows talk. White English … I can’t believe I have to translate it for you … is “with this”.
That’s right, I was mocking da Kneegrows …. who want to contribute nothing but want everything for “free”
I’ll bet that sounds real familiar to you.
—————
” ….. and become Real Adults of God …”
Ah ha!!! Pig Brain’s animosity towards me is solved. He just another Holy Roller all butt-hurt and stuff over mah blasphemous musings. Get a life, ya Putz. I gots no mo’ use for ya.
Hey stucky, you continue to prove my point… thanks.
Since you know nothing of money I’ll simply repeat what I’ve said before, here and elsewhere; there is no money outside of bills and coins… everything else is debt. And debt is NOT money, but then I don’t expect someone of your limited intellect to understand that.
You remain a child.
That’s it??? That’s all ya got???
You know it took me a long time to type my response on this tablet. You could have spent a bit more time and thinking on yours.
You think calling me a child is an insult? It’s a compliment. For Jesus said —- ” … unless you become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.”
Then again, you’re just another Holy Roller who doesn’t actually know what da Good Book says and means.
Like I said, Putz, I got no use for you. Go troll someone else with your lightweight diatribe.
After I went and posted the popcorn eating gazelle this is all you got? Fucking pussy’s!
You must be losing it Stucky, neither you are Mark Dumbham know how to have a good shit fest. Jamb your fist in his pussy Stuck! Give it too him good and hard! Make him cry then scream child molestation!
Well, IS, two things..
1. I think I already ran off Dan III. I didn’t want to run off two possible donators of money. Nevertheless, I wasn’t THAT easy on him. Notice his Big Insult after his beatdown was a meek and mild “You’re still a child.” I can’t help he’s a shitflinger-in-diapers.
2. I’ve been working on my mark of the Beast article most of the day. Just submitted it moments ago. It is PAINFUL writing original articles in WordPress on a tablet!!!!
Since fractional reserve banking creates money out of thin air, why not do the same for whatever it is the government needs to operate?
Breaking on OAN
Some dicks threw red paint and wrote “racist lyrics” on the Francis Scott Key statue in Baltimore.
Niggers? Or, nigger lovers?