“Democracy is, therefore, a reflection of the character of the people who exercise it.”
Been thinking about that one sentence all day. Honestly, what kind of people ARE we Americans, really? Well, ‘Murica is a yuge place with 300+ million people. Too big to ponder. Hmmm, let’s find a smaller subset of greater ‘Murica. I know! TPBers!!!
OK, I know it’s not a perfect representation. We ain’t got no kneegrows … we had one once, but he bolted. We only got one Joo, and he got no name. Just one active Beaner, and he’s butt-hurt right now. On the bright side, the mentally challenged are amply represented via a Village Idiot and AWB. It will have to do.
But, asking — “who are we?” — is still to broad. Too general. Don’t need a bunch of posts about your personality. We already did that … more than 90% of you are INTJs, which I imagine is the same percentage as in Hell.
Let’s whittle it down some more. You meet someone new perhaps, let’s say, at a Super Bowl party.What is practically the first thing you say (after the small talk bullshit). It’s “So, what do you do?” We do so because, right or wrong, we associate what a person IS, with what they DO for a living. Aha! We’re getting closer but, not there yet.
The first thing we do … even before asking what they do … is that we size them up. Specifically, are they successful, or not? We are all fruit inspectors.
Finally, we have arrived at today’s just one question of the day.
QUESTION: What does it take to be successful in BUSINESS … being an Asshole, or a Saint? And, why?
— I am not interested in what it takes to be successful in Life. It may be identical, or not. But, again, it is too broad. Business only.
— Do NOT answer “both, neither, or something else”. If you do, you’re a pussy. Asshole. Saint. Those are your only two choices.
— It would be extremely helpful if you mention what you do for a living … or, did, if retired. Don’t need a 500 word soliloquy, either. For example, “I’m in computer software sales.“, will suffice.
Me?
For some Bizzaro unexplainable reason, what came to my twisted and demented mind ….. ASSHOLE DOGS! Cuz business is a dog-eat-dog world.
Woody: “How’s it going Mr. Peterson?”
Norm: “It’s a dog eat dog world, Woody, and I’m wearing Milk Bone underwear.”
I watched most of the first season of Survivor. I stopped watching because the big fat asshole won. The really truly big fat assholes always win on The Biggest Loser. And it’s the conniving backstabbing asshole SOBs who always win on Inkmaster. “Oh, those are just reality shows, ya big Austrian Asshole!“, you might say.
Really? When I was in the Mortgage Biz it was the asshole who made promises he/she could never keep, and who told the Mark whatever they wanted to hear, who always made a killing. In car sales it’s the asshole who steals your “ups”, and gives his toothy grin, pretending to be your friend — “So, what will it take to put you in this POS Gremlin TODAY?” –– who is always first in the retarded sales manager’s office bulletin board. And when I was a computer programmer it was always the asshole user who got what they wanted … regardless of whether or not it made sense.
Theres a new product being advertised on OAN. A gadget to help you put on your socks! What kind of Asshole “invents” this shit?? Who are the mega Assholes buying it??? Check it out
——— –
OTOH, maybe the person who wrote this article –“Stop Doing Business Like It’s A Dog-Eat-Dog World And Start Succeeding” — who is correct when she wrote;
1) Encourage others with a kind word
2) Lend a helping hand
3) Follow the Golden Rule
4) What goes around comes around
5) Be the resource (The author states that #5 is “my secret to everything I have accomplished.)
Gimme a friggin break!!! What a pussy. I have been to countless such “customer centric” seminars while at IBM and HP. You know what we called people who followed this happy horseshit advice? Losers!!! Because, at the end of the quarter, if you didn’t make your consulting or sales quota, they had another name for you … EX-employee, no matter how fucken nice you were with the customer. Money talks, bullshit walks.
So, what is the character of this nation at work? A bunch of Assholes. Not that there’s anything wrong with that … because THAT is what it takes to succeed in this truly Dog-Eat-Dog World.
It also means we are ultimately doomed. Maybe Francis Marion should hope his daughter never leaves home.
.
I’m first, you big lumberjack looking dude.
And, to be first in a comment chain without reading the article or even giving a shit takes hutzpah.
Okay, I’m back from the deer woods again. What do I do? I do what I want to do. Every single day. Some days I lounge around in my spandex hunting pants until it is time to walk dogs and feed rabbits and some days I get all gussied up and run into “town” for some sort of business. That’s my soliloquy. I managed to join the Air Force at just the right time, when they opened the doors to women in aircrew positions, as well as allowing them to be red ropes at Keesler. I parlayed that into a sweet gig married to a man who works his ass off to give me the life he thinks I deserve and to top it off? I managed to work at several military contract positions that paid me enough money to stash it away and retire to a log home in the hills of Missouri before either of us turned 60.
QUESTION: What does it take to be successful in BUSINESS … being an Asshole, or a Saint? And, why?
I knew a couple of business owners who had turned their connections to people in military life into successful business ventures once the military industrial contracts started “dropping” regularly in the 1980s. They were assholes, in my opinion. They were willing to blur the line between supporting one’s country and mission and supporting one’s lifestyle with the country’s mission. They used the esprit de corps to enrich themselves. Those businesses that sprang up all over the place in the 80s around military bases were good scouts for the real money that would be bleeding into private vendors hands in the 90s, under Clintonian doublespeak… Reinventing Government was how wealth was to be redistributed fairly. To Assholes.
— Do NOT answer “both, neither, or something else”. If you do, you’re a pussy. Asshole. Saint. SAYS the Lumberjack Lookin’ Dude with a heart of gold. Don’t tell me what to do. Even Saints HAVE Assholes. I’m what EC says he is. So there. Asshole or Saint… it is NOT up to you.
— It would be extremely helpful if you mention what you do for a living … or, did, if retired.
You know I lived a life of leisure as a granddaughter of a Rockefeller didn’t you? I slung documents and generated boring ass reports on various training programs, maintenance operations and airplane fixers that got sent to various offices of important people at Tinker AFB in Oklahoma. Sometimes people read the reports and did something. Most times not. But, it still paid me more than most people make for pretending to do a job that matters in a world that spends tax dollars and calls it what it is: Monopoly Money.
The largest welfare program in the country is government contractors and employees. Is that an asshole thing to say?
It’s a little weird to see yourself being quoted on the web. That’s supposed to happen after you’re dead.
As for the party if I want to shut the conversation down I just tell the truth:
I’m a small arms dealer.
That’s usually a show stopper around here.
As for being successful in business (I’m still kicking so I guess that counts) there are a few rules for longevity that I have observed, particularly by watching others who have been in the industry longer than I have and who have been successful:
Be prepared to compete.
That means pay attention to what’s happening around you and where your industry is headed. Crush your competitor by being better and smarter than them. Not by being ruthless and dishonest.
Calculated risk over greed.
Do not expand too fast when times are good. Take care of your customers first, your staff second and yourself last.
Integrity over profit.
Doing the right thing over doing the wrong thing even if it costs you in the short run because the long run is more important.
Small and quick has its advantages over large and slow.
Stay humble.
Work hard.
Be grateful.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Soooo ….. asshole?
You keep amazing me…..how on earth did you think to write “Soooo ….. asshole?”.
Laughed my ass off.
It’s all about the context.
This is a really good story, koko. Really. EC loves my Alejandro stories.
I was an instructorette in the AWACS training squadron and had a really, really bad work partner who had been dumping most of the student workload on me. I am not normally a whiner because I prefer to stay busy at work if possible, but it was obvious she was not planning to work with students if she could avoid it (My work partner was also a female radar technician on AWACS. I was number 5; she was number 2. Kind of like Buzz Aldrin and Alan Shepard. Both of us also-rans but no one remembers our names immediately. Number One Lady ART? Julie Cameron. If any AWACers are out there and see this… you know what I mean, don’tcha.)
So, I came in from a flight to Tucson to get my own checkride, followed by my student’s checkride and my student FAILED his checkride. He was a timid little skinny kid with red curly hair and freckles and he froze on the emergency drill. He couldn’t remember how to put on his freaking firefighter’s smoke mask to go pretend to put out the pretend fire in the KPA tube below our feet. He got stage fright. That was an automatic failure… for SAFETY. (C’mon. If there really was a damn fire in the Aft Lower Lobe, I’m supposed to believe that skinny kid was the only thing standing between the whole plane burning up? We did stupid things for stupid reasons. That’s what AWACS training was all about.)
So, back to my story about Alejandro. I was grumpy coming to work because a student failure mean debriefing the Commander. Since I was supposed to be the “new” instructor in the room, I was looking for my teaching partner and everyone was saying “she’s coming in late” or “she has family problems” or even “she found her uncle unconscious and had to get him to the hospital”. I finally looked at the Senior Enlisted guy who had just told me her uncle had to go to the hospital in an ambulance and I said…
“Are you telling me the bitch isn’t coming to work today?”
Alejandro was sitting at the computer desk and he started laughing so hard I thought he was going to fall off his chair. He later told me that he had no idea I was so funny.
Sooooo…. asshole? No. I think FM is a SAint.
Maggie……yes, FM fits your category. But, that is why Stucky’s comment was so funny.
Not sure you get it, as far as I’m concerned, it is guys having fun needling each other.
It is an asshole QOTD
Stucky prefers to needle himself.
WTF?
It’s a little weird to find out your butthurt on the web.
“You’re”
The edit option is your friend.
The beaner is exempt from that grammatical faux pas, don’cha know? Been that way for years…He stated that..
Sometimes the spider bites.
See article about Jeff Bezos. Study the Walton family’s business philosophy.
The most successful businesses are creative, but more important, they are ruthless competitors, and that’s how they end up on top.
This seems to have an inverse relation to peace and contentment, though, as those who achieve this status can never seem to rest despite their vast wealth. They are compelled to continue in their quest for more and more.
“Takers get the honey, givers sing the blues”. Robin Trower – To Rolling Stoned
I am a retired semiconductor test engineer. It took awhile but I finally found out it is a thankless job. The reason is that it is the bottom engineering rung of high tech, at best the products work as expected and you do your job designing/providing test capacity and data analysis, at worst you are the bearer of really bad news, and that phrase “shoot the messenger” applies. As a bottom ringer EVERYONE has an opinion they consider superior, NOBODY top to bottom wants to hear bad news and is in denial. Not the executives with real money on the line and promises to keep, not the designers who then look bad, not the salesmen who also have promises to keep, not the product managers, product engineers, my boss who doesn’t stick his neck out for anything, nobody. There are poor ethics out there. In an industry who mastered outsourcing decades before it became the globalist norm, if there was a way to sell parts without testing they would find a way to do it. If there is a sucker who will buy this stuff whether it technically works or not, that’s ok. It not the official line, but plausible deniability makes it all work. The way it should work is product characterization data analysis statistically creates a manageable product specification. In reality, if the product fails design spec it is so easy to cheery pick parts to fit the narrative, or fake data. Those folks never really have to answer to much later on. I recall one characterization engineer who found the part noisy, and was replaced by a consultant to enlightened him on how to measure the parts. When a consultant is hired to achieve a result, they do and everyone gets quiet, whether it’s the truth or not. That engineer never found anything wrong ever again although there was much to see and say. He learned his role. Then the parts are dropped into my lap with an impossible job, passing defective parts. It happened a lot.
All this is to say success in test engineering is skill and luck. Technical skill to do the work, luck that the parts being tested as mostly good ones. Yep, you say something in writing and quietly, but wherever “they” want the bar set, you set it there. Or they will find someone who will.
I worked high tech all my life. At my last job, a test tech discovered a design flaw that had stopped a major product development in its tracks for a YEAR! The company was goin’ down.
So his discovery saved the company.
Less than a year later, he was fired.
His biggest mistake? He worked late and took time away from his personal project building high end speakers. I had told him to design these for mass production, raise a little cash (I even offered investment of my own $$$) and spend 4 hours a day building his OWN business. He never did.
I don’t know what he’s doing now, but he’s probably still a wage slave somewhere.
BTW, his speakers were AWESOME.
I’m an asshole……
Stuck – The device to assist in putting on socks is for the elderly, physically disabled, etc., many of whom have serious difficulty in accomplishing tasks involved in dressing themselves. If the product helps them accomplish those goals it will “sell”. To denigrate the product without understanding its purpose is pointless and objectively “wrong”.
Immanuel Kant, the great philosopher, spent a lot of time designing a counter-weight system to keep his socks up. True.
I think it looks stupid. I am not just defending Stuckensawyer the lumberjack with a heart of gilt.
The sock looks impossible to get onto the contrAPTIOn
retired, owned businesses and managed for others as well. was considered successful. my philosophy was don’t screw the other guy.
Stucky, Stucky, Stucky.
Truly, there is nothing new under the sun.
You are merely re-hashing Machiavelli to us.
http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince17.htm
The Prince
by Nicolo Machiavelli
CHAPTER XVII
Concerning Cruelty And Clemency, And Whether It Is Better To Be Loved Than Feared
It is “…much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.”
This site is NOT a good cross-section of America. The average American don’t never read no more, so you just lost most of the target population. This website is for angry racist bigoted misogynist fake news-reading homophobes, so you just lost all the snowflakes. I’m thinking you got all the curmudgeons, though.
I think the answer is asshole. I would love it to be saints, but that’s not how you survive in business. If you want to be a saint, join the church. Actually don’t, because they’re just a bunch of assholes who sell you on a potentially nonexistent product, overuse of which can be fatal, that is, more or less, all in your head. Meanwhile, they rake in tons of money, molest little boys, live like kings while performing little actual work, and they’re doing it tax-free. My buddy’s stepdad was a preacher and he told me lots of stories about how the man exploited his flock to provide him with a new car every year and how he got them to pay for the construction of a reproduction antebellum mansion.
Be an asshole, but PRETEND to be a saint. Give the customer that happy feeling. Keep the customer happy, get his money, and drive on. If the customer actually gets something he likes, good service, and a product that isn’t total shit, he will come back for more. As an asshole, you can always pretend to be a saint, and even temporarily go against your bottom line to ensure MORE in the future. Like the business terdz who donate publicly to causes, ballyhoo it to the stars, and hope for customers to respond to their magnanimous gesture. It failed for JC Pennys when they promoted gay marriage, but it worked for Chic-fil-A when they went against gay marriage.
Personally, I believe good customer service is vital to keeping customers coming back and spending more. But I would never pretend the salesman is a friend. They’re assholes and the best assholes are the ones who succeed the most.
Please check out this “If Commercials Were Honest” video.
PS- note how some people really like certain businesses due to their friendly policies on things like returns and replacements. Bed Bath and Beyond has a great return policy in my experience, so I’ve gone back. Amazon has a great return policy, too. They make it so easy to do business with them, despite their obvious world conquest goals, why not do business with them? I imagine they’ve decided the losses from stupid or obnoxious customers and the occasional shitty Chinese product are worth the customer loyalty. Practically everyone I know shops with Amazon and they are shopping more all the time and buying more items they would never have otherwise purchased sight unseen online. Most other businesses seem to think bad customer service and making returns and repairs difficult is a good way to make money. Good customer service and convenience for the customer are going to kill them in the long run.
Huh, I just had an issue with BB+B, and they were GREAT! One quick phone call with no wait and the problem was resolved. So, yeah, I’ll be back.
Hard work and long hours aside, to succeed in business one must be an asshole because they are confrontational, they take risks, they do not fear to communicate their thoughts, they speak directly to the problems at hand without holding anything back, and they make the hard decisions without remorse.
I also know from experience these are good ways to get fired when not self-employed.
However, all that said, in order to succeed in business one must, additionally, remain a saint in three primary ways: Common sense, fairness, and adherence to one’s word (both spoken & written).
This exact combination of asshole and saint will bring success beyond economics; it will weed out the riff-raff from one’s life; and will create unbreakable bonds with those who matter (even if one may not desire to hang out with them all the time). I know all this, because…
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Thanks Un. You just answered Stucky’s question to me better than I could have.
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You are the Uncola. Never had it never will.
Maggoo, Uncola is not the rest of the Uns; Kim Jong or otherwise.
He is not unreconstruction or underfire, for sure, mi amigo. But traveling uncognito is not unlike being elnonymous. But unlike black lives, however, it is the ideas which matter, unconditionally.
Unepynomous. Goodone.
I rarely agree with you… on anything…but here you’re spot on.
I owned and ran a profit turning art glass studio for about 30 years. Got up to 12 employees. Paid them well including my shop fore(wo)man who was my only salaried employee ever. Very competitive at the level I was at. While there were only a few studios capable of doing the work involved, what that meant to the casinos or hotels or whomever(like Disney) seeking the work, that we were all bidding on this work because we had proven ourselves.
What it took to be successful came down to one thing and that was doing WTF you had said you were going to do. Along with sizes, specs and small scale designs, when I received a bid request, I also was supplied a gantt scheduling chart. Along with determining the cost involved in fabrication, delivery and installation(plus my profit) I also, without any fucking bullshit excuses, had to be on site, installing the project when I was scheduled. Missing your slot assignment meant everyone behind was also going to be fucked.
In almost 30 years, I never missed a scheduled installation and believe me there were a couple run ups when I was putting in 20+ hours a day and sleeping in my office to make it. I saw several competitors miss their slots and they were put on the permanent shit list. One casino opened with plywood covering 2 large sidelites at the front entrance because that studio grossly underestimated what was involved-that guy went into hiding I think.
I lost one job that I knew about with a losing bid of $358K to the winner at $355K so being an asshole wouldn’t have mattered a bit.
Does it sound romantic? It most certainly wasn’t. The creativity you’d think that would be inherent in work like this was almost totally absent as various “art directors”, architects, decorators…all were telling me what they wanted. Hey, they were providing a good living for a bunch of us but in 2001, I just said fuck it, closed the business, sold my buildings and alone since, have created some incredibly beautiful(if I do say so) work.
Looking back, I wasn’t interested in the business part or making a profit. It started out as something interesting where I could be creative and turned into
something quite different. I’m glad I quit when I did, I was a not happy camper.
I am a retired software engineer, but I may have to rethink the retired part when I run out of money. I am also a wannabe farmer, but I think I am too old and too tired for that to work. I am not and will never be successful in business. I am certainly not a saint and if I am an asshole I’m the wrong kind of asshole to be successful.
Short answer: asshole
Long answer:
It depends on what you mean by successful. Saints can be successful in business if by successful you mean that they can make enough money to live a comfortable life. A McMansion in the suburbs with two or three cars that they replace every two or three years – that level of successful. But if by successful you mean multiple millions or billions $ of worth, multiple mansions, a private airplane, a household staff, and stuff like that – then the person will be an asshole because almost everyone successful to that level is a psychopath/sociopath and as far as I’m concerned if you’re a psychopath you’re an asshole.
It’ll make everyone sound like a bunch of saints and we all know that ain’t true. The agriculture industry, especially in the north where the growing season is short is an example of a saintly endeavor. Me, I was paid generously an annual salary, for standing in the trenches for six weeks each spring. Some days it was eighteen hours of hyperventilation. Some weeks were seven days, most were six. We all found our limit. Some times we prayed for rain to slow it all down. There was no time for anyone to be an asshole. Assholes were ignored or left in the dust that was stirred up by the three hundred horse tractors that wore triples so they wouldn’t slip when pulling equipment as wide as your yard. I’d send the older guys home about supper time so I wouldn’t wear them down too early. I’d have pizzas delivered regularly and make sure nobody missed important family stuff. Every grower was a family man, loved his land and used his pickup truck harder than they were ever meant to be used. Every employee came off the land and knew what was expected. There were times I was too tired to eat, too tired to think. My wife hated me for moments, then kissed me goodbye. I reintroduced myself to my kids each spring. Successful? My employees all had my back. We felt like brothers in arms. My customers thanked me, shared time and cold beers with me. We could break things that couldn’t be broken, then fix them. Everyone I knew laughed when they heard the word multitask, the first time. Don’t misunderstand, there’s asshole on the prairie too, but when people love what they do, there seems to be less reason to be one.
Is how we feel about our place.
To boast, my dental practice before my forced retirement was in the top 1%. Even specialists failed to see my $ucess. I worked 11 years as junior partner in the largest group practice in 200 miles. And they made much income off me while I struggled to afford a decent automobile. Victim, no, I learned much about the business of health care, financing, computers, employees, and health insurance. They were fairly ruthless in their dealings with me. When it became apparent that I had a higher calling than they did, I was asked to leave – kicked upstairs is what I called it. And they took my $100,000 equity in the building and business out for new expenses and renovations before my exit.
Cut out the chase of 20 years, of burnout, depression, divorces. What sustained me through the years is belief. Four tenets. 1 Work – do something of value to others
2 Worship – study and practice the sacred 3 Play – recreate the things that give meaning and enjoyment for life 4 Family – where you hopefully learn about love and how to love. And blood does not always make for family. We can choose our family, tribe, kine, affiliation and ancestors.
During the lean years I like to say I worked more hours than any dentist in 600 miles. Saturdays, nights, up to 60 hours a week. It was necessary if I wanted any disposable income after alimony. The judge awarded my drug addict wife more money than I had made in my entire life. Since the paper route in 2nd grade I have worked. Over 20 hours (up to 60) a week for 4 years of college, 4 years of dental school, two years as an O-3 in the AF. and 4 years of private practice. More than all that she got from the philandering judge who once employed the ex’s mother. 10 years of rehabilitative alimony for a marriage that lasted fewer than 9 years. Nietzsche comes to mind.
Others who posted above have noted paths to success. There are many.
Fear or love? I say love. And with the rejoinder, ‘do not mistake my kindness for weakness’.
Or as my father used to say to his crew before they saddled up for a mission with nukes, “Does anyone have any confugilty?” It was his malapropism. Dubya used the same word as president in one of his press conferences.
As an aside, I like the story of the long time crew member on my father’s B-36’s; Carl, the Mexican. Back in the day it was custom when the crew was finished with the day’s mission to fire a pistol into the air to alert others that the baby was in their hands. Carl, confirmed this story personally to me after my father’s death, at a crew reunion. He dutifully discharged the 38 snub nose up into the air – into the wing of the monstrous Peacemaker. They changed protocols after that one….
Most doctors and dentists in the military are there because they graduated in the bottom 5% of their class and could never make it on their own in the real world. My takeaway from your first paragraph and previous missives is that you are probably the prototypical rube. Your “partners” probably saw you coming for miles.
I hope you’re not the idiot dentist who fucked up my teeth at Torrejon AB. I’ve vowed to be a complete asshole and break off ALL of his teeth with a pair of ViseGrips if I ever catch up with him. I went in to have a single tooth smoothed out after chipping it and the assclown took the liberty of grinding on most of my teeth with the end result being that I haven’t been able to eat a ham sandwich without a fork since high school. That, and he ground through the enamel on three of them causing me to need restoration work on teeth that never had anything wrong with them except an unfortunate encounter with an asshole dentist.
Oh yeah………happy holidays!
I hear ya. I had my wisdom teeth removed be AF dentists during tech school on a Thursday just because they were there and the dentist needed training. Jerk.
Dear Mag, (And I S). Your red rope is fraying when you make statements about those in charge of your mouth and call them “Jerk”. I removed wisdom teeth routinely when they were a liability to the client. There are many problems with partially and un erupted third molars. Just ask any oral surgeon, otolaryngologist, maxillofacial surgeon. To remove them from a soldier increases troop readiness down the road is an accepted premise.
When I was active duty I never did a procedure because I needed practice. Yes, I did receive wonderful experience in a clinic with five O-3’s and full bird oral surgeon specialist. It was unusual that we ran out of patients. The mission of the base was shut down by the Turkish government because of the Cyprus conflict and our lack of support to the Turks. (the base was a white elephant as satellites were taking over the electronic eavedropping’s duties.) So they let people leave as their tour was over and no replacements came in. We worked 3 days a week towards the end. It gave me a chance to explore other duties.
I have heard all the horror stories out there plus those that are covered up and not part of public discourse. I accept there are many practitioners who are marginal.
My high school dentist hurt me every time I went there for fillings and brace’s adjustments. He is one of the reasons I decided to become one as I knew if he could make a living with that kind of treatment; then it would be lead pipe cinch to supply better treatment and be successful.
I bet every one of my former employees would come to work for me again. They were proud to work in an office such as mine. They were paid well above the standard wage and liked being treated with respect. They liked having the best equipment and sterilization techniques.
I no longer take offense at people using dentist as a pejorative title. Haters gonna hate. I like to tell the tale of the wife of a Marine Major who sat in my chair. She had numerous cavities. One was on the disto-buccal of her maxillary second molar. It was a deeply decayed tooth. In the old days it would have been deemed non restorable with a filling. I sweated bullets removing the damage as access in the the damp dark hole of her mouth was highly restricted. I assiduously restored the tooth and told her it was a very deep cavity and I hoped my efforts would forestall a root canal and crown. I told her she may have problems with the tooth and if she did to let me know.
She was a very stressed woman whose husband had just returned from combat in the ME. She threatened me. She told me she had better not have any problems because her husband was a Marine Major. She did return complaining of a transient pulpitis and associated pain and sensitivity. Again she told me I had better fix it or else. I could see her dilemma. She did not want to have her duties as wife and mother to be interfered with and demanded I do my duty to fix a problem she had caused.
I asked her to bring her husband in so we can explain the situation to him. So the buzz cut red headed Marine did come in – in uniform. He failed to understand how the best treatment can lead to problems, not as a result of shoddy work but from decay sequelae and attempts to remedy the pathology.
He became combative at my suggestion that his wife was unreasonable. My dental assistant closed the door to the operatory. The Marine demanded to know why I closed the door to the room. I got in his face – 12 inches away and told him he was disturbing other patients with his demeanor and tone of his voice. And I told him he had a problem. I told him he had better go as far up the chain of command as he could and ask for help because I was going to come down from above and his co did not want to hear it from his superiors first.
The dental assistant was a Navy wife. Her enlisted husband worked in a HR department responsible for the well being of dependents. I dismissed the Major and his distraught wife. The poor woman was petrified of retribution from her husband. It was painful to see the obvious. Shanna knew without saying what the problem was. I asked her to see to it that the family received help. And she did and they did. Her husband was awarded Seaman of the Year for bringing attention to the emotional casualties of our wars in the ME. He is now an officer Pilot and is stationed in Bahrain with his family.
I manually grow highly specialized (niche, if you will) semiconductors and I’m currently one of three people in the world doing what I do and the company I work for consistently grows the largest and highest quality semiconductors of this type to ever exist. I’m just an indian with no desire at all to be a chief. I tend to be an asshole by nature so I have to dial that back and balance it by being the go to guy in everything I do.
In observing my current boss, his boss and recalling the dozen or so different things I’ve done over the years to earn a living, I’m not sure you can separate the two. The situation at the time can call for assholery or saintliness in varying amounts.
The best you can expect is to be a diplomat. A former employer had the following definition posted on a very prominent sign in his shop: Diplomacy is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a nice way that they actually look forward to the trip.
Besides, assholitude or sainthood are usually in the eye of the beholder. If you hire a plumber and he shows up nine hours later and has to half-ass the job to get you through the night until he can get a part first thing in the morning (making you late for work), is he a saint or an asshole?
Reminds me of this:
A guy walks into a bar, orders a beer and sits down. A guy next to him clearly has a significant head start and points to a skyscraper out the window. You see that skyscraper over there! I built that with my own hands but do the call me the greatest skyscraper builder in the world? No! You see that stadium over there? I built that with my own hands but do the call me the greatest stadium builder in the world? No! Do you see that bridge right there? I built that with my own hands but do the call me the greatest bridge builder in the world? No! But, you suck ONE little pee pee and……….
Skeleton walks into a bar and
orders a beer and a mop.
Skeleton walks into a bar
The bartender looks up and asks, what’ll it be, Red?
Two strings walk in a bar. Bartender says I don’t serve strings…are you strings? Tie themselves together and order. They are “a frayed knot.”
3 dogs in the vet’s waiting room. Black Lab looks at the Golden& asks: “what are you here for?” Golden says: I piss often, and everywhere, even in the house. So, they wanna try and calm me down a bit & castration is the supposed remedy. You?” Lab says: ” I’m a digger. Dig holes in the yard, rips in the carpet. The last straw was their leather couch, torn to shreds. So, it’s nuts off for me too. Sigh…” Golden looks over at a Great Dane, & asks: “What’s your deal?” Dane says: “I’m a humper. I’ll hump anything. The couch, the ottoman. Yesterday, my owner stepped out of the shower, was bent over to dry her feet, and I jumped on & started thrusting” Lab says: “Aww shit. You losing you balls, too then, eh?” Dane says: “No, apparently I’m here to get my nails trimmed.”
Bad form. I am not telling the curtain joke.
There is not one person who is successful in business without being an asshole. All of the comments above aside, and I am sure that you consider yourself to have been successful, none of you were ever “successful.” If you want to be a Musk, a Fuckerberg, or any other (((successful))) person you will be required to be an asshole. If you can’t be an asshole you won’t even be allowed to peek through the door into the big boys club.
Except of course for susie who makes his whole life up every morning over his instant coffee.
Rob………..not so sure on that.
You and me have different definitions of “successful in business”
very different
Yes, that is exactly my point.
I hear ya.
Okiedokey rob. Gotta say I know what you mean. I worked directly with a couple small business owners during my rebel days trying to oust my nemesis company and union from the lucrative military teat in AWACS world. There are assholes who succeed in business who are ONLY assholes. They literally apply the asshole approach to everything they see. And it
Works.
I think Roger said it along time ago. Probably written by Pete.
Meet the new boss same as the old boss.
I own my rig and I drive for Fedx .I am both . Asshole and Godly Saint . Mostly I’m a nice , sweet , loveable man who only hates other people about half of my time. I do my job as a contractor the best I can and then say fuck it in my Head.
I think the reason I can be alot nicer is that I don’t have to deal with the same people day in and day out.Everyday I deal with different people even at the terminals .I also arrive at different times so it’s always new faces.This is one thing I do like about truck driving. I’m always dealing with different people in different places.
It depends on what you do for a living. The best sales people are probably assholes. Certainly lawyers, politicians..but I repeat myself.
If I need healthcare, I don’t want an asshole for a nurse or a doctor. If they are an asshole, I’m going to change my provider.
Regarding labeling yourselves as INTJ or whatever..it’s probably not as accurate as you think. I recently did some research on this and found that those types of tests are falling out of favor.
The Big Five personality test has become the thing in the past several years from what I have found.
“Openness is positively related to proactivity at the individual and the organizational levels and is negatively related to team and organizational proficiency. These effects were found to be completely independent of one another.
Agreeableness is negatively related to individual task proactivity.
Extraversion is negatively related to individual task proficiency.
Conscientiousness is positively related to all forms of work role performance.
Neuroticism is negatively related to all forms of work role performance”
Companies want to find people that score high in Conscientiousness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits
I flip back and forth from TJ to FP which made me suspect the entire MB personality test.
Funny, just this morning as I was taking my normal 5:35am crap I had this very thought, asshole all the way.
I’ve been a commercial painting contractor since 1988.
My biggest flaw and business failure is I’m a nice guy, I care about the employee, I have empathy for their problems, and hence, their problems become my problems and usually at my cost whether that would be lost time, reputation or monetary.
If I were an asshole I would just get rid of the employee, but no………………………….fuck me, I’ll never change, I know that.
But is that really being a asshole? Or just a good businessman? To the majority today they are one in the same because the average employee hasn’t a fucking clue what running a business is all about.
Can an employee be an asshole?
Case in point. I had one guy, Brian, he worked in the field for five years then I trained him for the last five years to work in the office because he had an aptitude for reading blueprints. I took a risk and I lost money while I trained him to be an estimator.
After a couple of years he started doing well.
Then there was another six year emplyee, Tony, he had some mental issues after his mom died so being the nice guy I am, I took him out of the field and paid him to clean equipment and basically hang out in the office so he could pay his bills while he worked his way through his metal deal.
Then he became interested in estimating as well.
Bought him a computer and set to train him. He did so well that a year ago Brian and Tony approached me to purchase the company as I’m approaching 60 and have really lost my enthusiasm after 30 years in business. We set a timeline of 64 years old and I’m out, they can use company profits to buy me out.
Then Brian announced last labor day he was quitting to use his estimating skills I taught him in a home improvement company his friend works for.
A month later Tony announced he was also quitting because he had to get out of construction, mental issues again, but I recently discovered he was also working for Brian, in residential construction.
So, I took a risk on both men by training them, losing money while they learned, paid them quarterly bonus’s, gas cards, paid them a salary, vacation, holidays, lunch’s were always on me. Just to have them quit.
No matter, I’m still done whether that happens because of a collapse or by my design at a time of my choosing.
No wonder successful businessmen are assholes, employees are bigger assholes. But it doesn’t matter, I’m still a nice guy. Fuck me.
Card – I gave up long ago caring about personal issues of employees. It is a losing proposition.
I simply treat everyone I come into contact with honestly, and with integrity. I pay my employees on time, every time. I require they do the work agreed. I treat them with respect if they do the work. If not I toss them out. I am not their family. Their personal issues have zero to do with me. It is a business relationship. I value and honor those that work. But my job is to protect the business first. I do not mistreat anyone. I do not shout, curse or abuse. But I do not buy into their marital issues, their druggie kids, or that their goldfish died. I do not expect loyalty. It is a business relationship, and if it is in their interests they will stay, if not they will leave.
I leave them entirely alone to do their work, so long as they do it. Amazingly, I have found high quality individuals prefer that to anything else. They prefer that to money in many cases. I have had many quality people leave for more money, and return within weeks, sometimes days – because I leave them alone, and that is rare indeed. Just meet the agreement. Easy. Simple. I pay ok, but not the highest, certainly not the lowest. But I value and respect work and those that do it, and will not allow anyone to interfere with those doing good work.
Well put, Llpoh.
After I watching Tony crying in my office, and all that I did for him just so he could, afford, to quit later on, I’ve become much more hardened.
I still care on the inside but on the outside I project that their problems are not my problems, save it, figure it out or you will be replaced.
I’m a slow learner……..
Card, The Good Book says,” the value of a man’s life is not measured in his possessions.” You did well to show compassion to those knuckleheads . I have had similar experiences and I knew going in that others were likely to betray me or not appreciate my kindness. Did it anyway as a gift to Christ.
Yup, and I much as I say I won’t continue to show compassion, I will, and I also know I’ll be taken advantage of, again….
Admittedly, that is only 1 side of the story, correct?
The answer is definitely “Asshole”. Think: Llpoh kind of personality when he’s on the job (although I admit to admiring him and his grit).
A quick anecdote: I retired relatively early because the kid took over. I set out to find a job but there were none that I would take because I sensed in my spirit that the owners were real assholes at heart. But I did actually consider taking a few of these jobs just to purposely fuck things up for the assholes for a week or two before being ‘let go’. To me, nothing would be funnier than saying to an asshole boss: “I’m really sorry about the damage. Is that expensive?”. I think of what a boss like Llpoh would say in return and laugh my ass off! I’ve, thus far, refrained from such shenanigans, but if I ever get bored……..
“The answer is definitely “Asshole”. Think: Llpoh kind of personality when he’s on the job (although I admit to admiring him and his grit).”
Actually, llpoh is exactly the kind of boss I prefer. You know EXACTLY what he wants and expects at all times and as long as you’re providing that, they leave you the fuck alone. What more could you want? Some asswipe looking over your shoulder? Somebody who changes his mind midstream or has no idea what they even want? Few bosses are perfect but if you can work hard, be consistent, arrive on time, DO YOUR JOB and not have to duck out three days a week for some “emergency”, the llpoh types are the best. In my experience they pay better than average too because they expect better than average.
IS – demanding the agreed performance from a customer, supplier, or employee is not being an asshole. It was what was agreed. Demanding more than what was agreed is being an asshole, and I do not do that.
I also generally do not set terms and conditions unilaterally. They are freely agreed. But fail to deliver, and be even one second late, and I tend to be unhappy. I meet my end, they meet theirs. They think, of course, that my end is mandatory, and theirs is optional. Good luck with that.
As I say below, if people do not think you are an asshole, you are not doing it right. The proof is whether people stay with you – if so you are probably really a saint. If they leave, the opposite is true, and you are probably an asshole, and folks have figured out the real truth of it.
I have never been sued, taken for unpaid invoices, etc. I only do business with honest people, and dump dishonest instantly, no matter the cost. That goes for customers, employees, and suppliers. Works for me.
Vodka – I have lost respect for you. That is some fucked up shit right there. Dishonest. Immoral. Despicable. You suggest you would take someone’s money and then do them intentional damage. That is as low as it gets in my book.
Remember when Brian Bosworth wrote that tell-all book about the corruption at OU Football circa Barry Switzer era? I thought his comments about putting nuts and bolts in doors at the GM plant while at his “work study” program job to allow him to play football for the Sooners were annoying.
@Llpoh,
Ha! You love to talk about the tough dog-eat-dog world in business vs business competition, but can’t bear to apply it to the employer vs employee relationship. I was merely having fun with the comment. Get off your high horse. All of us are much less righteous than we imagine ourselves to be.
Both, all the time. And that’s why I’m not successful in business as an owner; I think I’m successful on my own terms.
I’m a 1099 contractor so that’s sort of self-employed. I do engineering, mostly process engineering, although other things show up from time to time. But I worked in Fortune 500 companies for a while, mostly because I thought I could.
I’m well towards the far end of the scale that starts at “everybody’s friend” and winds up at the euphemistic “does not play well with others”. I was an asshole of sorts at times, usually when someone wanted to be diplomatic, empathetic or compassionate at the expense of logic, math, reality and practicality. I was the one who was always saying, ” ..but, that won’t work!” when everyone else was trying to reach an agreement. Sometimes I was voted down, but that rarely ended well.
After trying to get along with everyone for 20 years I got laid off. I went back to school and earned two more engineering degrees, learning just how screwed up higher education was in the process. I got out with my doctorate finally, and became a consultant – and found a better path. As part of a network, the other ones mostly find the work, and need me to help get it done. I say what I’ll do and do what I say, so mostly they will work with me. Lately my boss has decided there are certain things I do really well, probably better than anyone else – so those kinds of assignments are coming my way more often. Each one that succeeds sells the next one (to my boss), and projects that go well and smoothly look good to the managing partners, so my boss looks better. And the bureaucracy is nearly non-existent – the HR department is one guy (with secretarial support), no one worries about my “training hours”, vacation hours or anything else. I work pretty much when I want to (not always enough, but getting there) and make enough to keep myself happy financially. And for days on end I don’t have to see anyone, talk to anyone, write reports and memos no one will read (but I write better English than my boss does, so I am winding up with more reports and such) or COMPLY with someone else’s bullshit idea of the day. The work is interesting usually, and I have been able to have some impact and direction on various projects (I got to choose the process for a new chemical plant, that was fun!) so I’m staying active and mentally awake. It took thirty years but I finally seem to have a job I actually LIKE a lot, and I’m going to try to keep it. Now if I can only get enough hours to pay my increased ObamaDontCare premiums, things will be rosy ….
What does it take to be successful in BUSINESS … being an Asshole, or a Saint? And, why?
Saint. Because saints treat co-workers and employees right, which should keep them loyal if they’re grateful, but not necessarily. Saints encourage teamwork; assholes shit on employees & co-workers, and create dissenters in the ranks. Saints respect customers, which should earn businessmen repeat business from customers who appreciate good service, fair prices and a friendly demeanor. Assholes take advantage of customers, & quickly move on to the next conquest. Greed is the higher priority than good commerce, and assholes don’t care who they crush to win. After the sale care? Saints follow up, and resolve problems immediately, usually apologizing. Unless of course, the customer is being an asshole. Then, it’s even harder to be a saint but better. If i’m a consumer, and I recognize an arrogant, superiority complex asshole as a salesman or supplier, fuck him. I walk. A great saint experience, and you tell a few people. A miserable, asshole experience, and you tell many. Ask Koko. Right?
I work 2 PT jobs = full time work weeks. Morning: inside sales & svc. support for a Mfr. Rep of high voltage industrial equipment. Afternoon gig: shop rat skilled trades; machine tools, DAQ test rigs. You know, the kind of blue collar job they’re trying to get youngsters to embrace, with limited success.
Both employers like my work ethic. It contrasts, with the 20- something’s, who screw off & have little initiative. Still, just a worker bee, and OK w that. It’s low stress. I’ve been a manager, didn’t like it. Had to try 9 ducks before we found 1 eagle who could fly with good work ethic. I’m old school, well, because “Old’s Cool!”
All depends on your own measuring stick for success, in the final analysis.
Ellos son mis dos centavos. A- Dios!
Stuck – your question does not compute.
To be successful, some, perhaps most, people will think you an asshole, because you say no or refuse to give them free stuff, or require them to do what they say they will. Hence they THINK you are an asshole, but in reality you are not. In reality THEY are assholes.
To be successful, saint is more appropriate. Honesty and integrity pay off. Even folks that think you are an asshole will keep coming back to you, be it customers, suppliers, or employees. “He is an asshole, but he does what he says he will do. The other guy is really nice, but he doesn’t do what he promises. So I prefer to do business with that asshole Llpoh”.
To be successful, you must be a saint, but people must consider you an asshole. If they do not, you are doing it wrong.
I crossposted this from the accidental invention thread.
There was a time when matches were deadly poison, due to their white phosphorous content. From the site linked here: http://museumofeverydaylife.org/exhibitions-collections/current-exhibitions/history-of-the-match
“The Diamond Match Company produced the first non-poisonous match in the U.S., and as a humanitarian gesture, forfeited patent rights, allowing rival companies to cheaply switch to non-poisonous match production. The Company was recognized by President Taft and won a prestigious award for the elimination of a serious occupational disease.”
So here we see a case where a business made a humanitarian gesture, against their profit motive, and benefited mankind. That’s pretty cool. Today, they would continue to produce the deadly matches, keeping the patent locked, until they could lobby govt to ban the white phospho matches and then license the new match to everyone for a small fee…
Ex Benz tech
Should’ve been a much bigger asshole!
I’m sure there are many hard working people here, but I also see a complete failure to acknowledge that the last 40 years of Baby Boomer driven asset inflation and self serving policies are what lies behind a lot of people’s prosperity to a large degree.
College? It was cheap in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Even in the 90s, it was somewhat affordable. The kids today are screwed. Cost isn’t as much of a factor in the grade, middle and high schools but quality sure is.
Real Estate? The average house was valued at 2x the average wage. Today it is 5x or more. Once again, the younger generations are screwed.
Health Care? The Baby Boomers are sliding into Medicare freedom. Yes, they’re getting blood-sucked along the way, but at least they had no student debt, have asset inflated home equity and got several decades of somewhat affordable health care. The youngsters? Screwed.
Jobs? While the 70s wasn’t great, and there were some tough times in the early 80s, there were jobs. All kinds of jobs ranging from assembly line to services and professional jobs. The Boomers are sitting on the pole positions for the professional jobs these days – outside of the social media/sharing economy, although the lower end are screwed by the same offshoring factors which the young generations will have to face for their entire lives.
Some people don’t like the truth. Hence the down votes.
I never saw the need to screw anybody in my business dealings. Whether gun shows or coin shows, or rebuilt cars as a shade-tree mechanic, I earned a reputation as a reasonable and honest guy. Net result: Many come-back customers.
I dropped out of the organized 8-5 world at age 45. Became the local sand’n’gravel fella with a backhoe and dumptruck. Again, same policy merited a good reputation; quality work and reliability.
Never have thought of myself as any sort of big deal. “Successful retirement” means an absence of give-a-shit about the price of gasoline–and so here I am, happy as a pig in the corn crib. People smile and howdy when they see me coming, so what more would I need or want?