Selco interviewed by Daisy Luther via The Organic Prepper blog,
Are you prepared for the extreme violence that is likely to come your way if the SHTF? No matter what your plan is, it’s entirely probable that at some point, you’ll be the victim of violence or have to perpetrate violence to survive. As always, Selco is our go-to guy on SHTF reality checks and this thought-provoking interview will shake you to your core.
If you don’t know Selco, he’s from Bosnia and he lived through a year in a city that was blockaded with no utilities, no deliveries of supplies, and no services. In his interviews, he shares what the scenarios the rest of us theorize about were REALLY like. He mentioned to me recently that most folks aren’t prepared for the violence that is part and parcel of a collapse, which brings us to today’s interview.
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How prevalent was violence when the SHTF in Bosnia?
It was wartime and chaos, from all conflicts in those years in the Balkan region Bosnian conflict was most brutal because of multiple reasons, historical, political and other.
To simplify the explanation why violence was common and very brutal, you need to picture a situation where you are “bombarded” with huge amount of information (propaganda) which instills in you very strong feelings of fear and hate.
Out of fear and hate, violence grows easy and fast, and over the very short period of time you see how people around you (including you) do things that you could not imagine before.
I can say that violence was almost an everyday thing in the whole spectrum of different activities because it was a fight for survival.
Again, whenever (and wherever) you put people in a region without enough resources, you can expect violence.
We were living a normal life, and then suddenly we were thrown in a way of living where if you could not “negotiate” something with someone, you solve the problem by launching a rocket from an RPG through the window of his living room.
Hate stripped down the layers of humanity and suddenly it was “normal” to level an apartment building with people inside with shells from a tank or form private prisons with imprisoned civilians for slave work or sex slaves.
Nothing that I saw or read before could have prepared me for the level of violence and blindness to it, for the lives of kids, elders, civilians, and the innocent.
Again, the thing that is important for readers is that we were a modern society one day, and then in few weeks it turned into carnage.
Do not make the mistake of saying “it cannot happen here” because I made that mistake too.
Do not underestimate power of propaganda, fear, hate, and the lowest human instincts, no matter how modern and good your society is right now and how deeply you believe that “it can not happen here”.
You’ve mentioned warlords and gangs in several of your articles. Were they responsible for the majority of the violence or was it hungry families?
Fighting of the armies through the whole period of war brings violence in terms of constant shelling from a distance from different kind of weapons.
For example a few multiple rocket launchers (VBR) could bring in 30 seconds the destruction in an area of 3-4 apartment buildings, and being there in that moment and surviving it gives you a completely new view on life.
Snipers were a constant threat and over time you simply grow a way of living that you constant scan area in front of you where your next steps gonna be. Are you gonna be visible and from where? Etc.
Most brutal violence was actually lawlessness and complete lack of order between different factions and militias, so in some periods there were militias or gangs who simply ruled the cities or part of the city where they were absolutely masters of everything in terms of deciding of taking someone’s life.
In lawlessness, you as one person could be really small and not interesting, or join some bigger group of people to be stronger, some family or militia or gang.
An example of a gang would be group of people of some 300 or 500 people who “officially” were a unit or militia and operate for some faction, but in reality they operate mostly for themselves.
That included owning part of the black market, having prison (for forced labor or ransom), attacking people and houses for resources, smuggling people from dangerous areas.
Violence from those kinds of group was the most immediate violence, the most visible in terms of SHTF talking.
If those people came on your door you could obey, fight, or negotiate, but mostly you could not not ask for help from any kind of authority, because there was no real authority.
In any society, no matter where you are living, there are a great number of people who are waiting for the SHTF to go out and do violent things. Small time criminals or simply violent persons who are not openly violent because system is there to punish them for that. It is like that.
Some gang leaders that I knew were actually completely sick people with a strange type of charisma that makes people follow them, weird situations that can happen only in a real collapse.
They are people who just waited for their time to rise.
Those kinds of people together with criminal organization that are already there in any city in the world will be the backbone of SHTF gangs.
Who were the most likely victims?
A very simple answer would be that the most likely victims were people who had interesting things without enough defense.
But it was not always that simple.
For example one of the first houses that got raided in my neighborhood, right at the beginning of collapse while there was still some kind of order, was a rich family’s home.
They had a nice house with bars on the windows, a pretty good setup for defense, and they had enough people inside so they could give pretty good resistance to the mob.
But they got raided simply because they were known that they are rich, so they were attacked with enough force to be overwhelmed.
It was not only about how much manpower you had and how well-organized defense of your home was, it was also about how juicy a target you were.
If you are faced with 150 angry people attacking your home because they are sure you have good stuff inside your chances are low, no matter how good and tough you are.
People who were alone were a pretty easy target and old people without support of family or friends.
It was not always about killing someone or violence. For example, if you were alone and without resources but you had something else valuable like some kind of skill or knowledge you could easily be “recruited” for some faction or group, not by your will of course.
What were some ways to prevent yourself from becoming a victim of violence? How do you recommend that people prepare themselves for the possibility of violence?
It can be done in steps, or in layers.
Do not be interesting (or attract attention) when the SHTF.
This means a lot of things, for this article I can give a few examples with shortened explanations because it is a huge topic:
- Do not look like a prepper (before or after SHTF). There is no sense in announcing that you are prepping for EMP, civil collapse, apocalypse, or whatever. With that you are risking the probability that when the SHTF, people will remember that you have interesting things in your home
- Your home should look ordinary. For example, if you are living in the city on a street where all houses look similar, there is not much sense in making your home look like a fortress. You’ll just attract attention.
- Your defense should be based on more subtle means. Some examples are having means to reinforce doors and windows quickly when you need it, or to reinforce them from inside. Make changes in your yard to funnel possible attackers where you want them to be (trees, fence, bush…). You can make your home look abandoned or already looted.
Think about what survival is!
Survival is about staying alive, it is not about being comfortable at the expense of losing your life.
I have seen many times people lose their lives simply because they were too attached to their belongings (house, car, land, goods…) so they simply did not want to leave something and run in a particular moment.
Everything can be earned and bought again except life.
Forget about statements like “I will defend it with my life” or “over my dead body” or similar because the real SHTF is usually not heroic or noble. It is hard and brutal. When you are gone you are gone and there might be nobody to take care of your family just because you have been stubborn or trusted in movies when it came to violence.
To rephrase it: Be ready to leave your home in a split second if that means you and your family will survive, no matter how many good things you have stored there.
Be mentally ready for violence
In a way, it is impossible to be ready for violence, especially widespread violence when the SHTF, but you can minimize shock when that happens with some things.
If you are not familiar with what violence is, you can try to get yourself close” to it today (in normal times). It can be done, for example, by doing some voluntary work for example in a local hospital, ER or similar… or simply by working with homeless people.
Sounds maybe strange but activities like this can get you a bit of a feeling of what it is all about, not to mention that you can learn some practical and useful skills for SHTF.
Have means and skills (physically) to defend – or to do violence
No matter how old or young you are, your gender or religion I assure you that you are capable of doing violence. It is only a matter of the situation and how far you are going to be pushed.
It is not just “some people are capable of violence.” Everybody is capable. Not everybody enjoys doing it or is willing to do it so easily.
In today (normal times) you can learn some violence skills and you should do it, again no matter if you are a woman or old or young.
You should own a weapon and know how to use it. You should practice with it, or have at least some basic knowledge about hand-to-hand combat.
The worst case scenario is to have a weapon that you try for the first time when SHTF.
Be familiar with your means for defense, let your family members know what they need to do in case of attack of your home, have plan, and go through it.
Only through practice will you minimize chances for mistakes.
Use common sense
I know lot of survivalists almost dream about how they are going to use weapons against bad guys when SHTF, and that they will be something like super heroes from movies, saving innocents and killing villains.
Truth is that in a real collapse, a lot of things are kind of blurred and you are not sure who the bad guys are. Good guys turn out to be lunatic gang members who want to bring food to their kids.
There are no super heroes when SHTF, and if some of them show up they end up dead quickly.
There is only you and your skills and mindset and what you prepared.
Use violence as a last resort because of the simple fact that by using violence you are risking of getting killed or hurt. Remember when SHTF there is maybe no doctor or hospital to take care of your wound.
It is a time when even a small cut can eventually kill you through infection and lack of proper care.
I’m a single mom with a household full of girls. In an SHTF situation, what would our best strategies be to remain safe?
Just like I have mentioned before, strategy is always same for any part of survival, and shooting from the rifle is pretty similar no matter are you man or woman.
Being single mom with household full of girls on first look make you as a ideal target in some situations, but we are talking here in prepper terms so there is no reason not to be perfectly well prepared as a single mom with girls.
But yes I admit it is not perfect situation, even if you are prepared well, some things are sure, you need to connect with other people even more.
House with couple of girls will always look like easy prey for some people.
It is like that.
Were people in the city safer than people in the country? Can you tell us more about rural living during this time?
In my case definitely no.
In the essence it always come to the resources and people.
City meant more people less resources, country (rural) meant less people more resources, and because that level of violence simply was lower. That was most important reason.
There are few more reasons why it was much better in the country.
People in the country (rural settings) were much more “connected to ground” they were more tough if you like, they grew their own food, had cattle, lived more simple life prior SHTF and when everything collapsed they had less problems getting use to it.
Yes they also did not have electricity and phones, running water or connection to other places but they adapted easier to the new life because they had more useful skills then people in the city.
Life was harder for them too than prior to the collapse, but they had means to get resources: land, woods, river…
Another thing is that people in small rural communities “in the country” were more connected to each other, people knew their neighborhood and some things were easier to organize, like community security watch, help in case of diseases and similar.
What types of weapons did people have for self-defense?
It was different political system prior the collapse where it was not so usual to own a weapon legally. And to own one illegally could mean a lot of troubles.
Right prior to SHTF, it became possible to buy different weapons on the black market but still, a majority of people did not own weapons.
When it all collapsed, it was possible to get a weapon through trade.
Because of the military doctrine here prior to the collapse, we used “East Bloc” weapons. A favorite was AK-47 in all different kind of editions, or older weapons like M-48 rifle, SKS rifle, 22 and similar.
People used what they had, so in one period you would be lucky if you had any kind of pistol and knife.
Later through the different channels weapon become more available so people had them more. A lot of that was actually junk that some warlords somehow “imported”.
Weapons 50-60 years old without proper ammunition, or not in operating condition. A lot of people simply did not have a clue how to use any kind of weapon so a lot of accidental deaths happened.
I remember people storming abandoned army barracks that was mostly looted, but they found in one building a lot of RPGs while other part of the same building was burning.
Two guys were trying to figure out a single-use RPG, and while they were messing with it clearly not knowing how that thing worked, they accidentally armed it and launched a rocket that flew through the crowd, not hurting anyone and exploding in wall 100 meters from where they stood.
They were smiling, clearly happy because they thought they figured out how that thing worked.
What weapons do you suggest to have for SHTF?
It is a never-ending discussion and a favorite prepper topic, and I must say that whole discussion is overrated.
I have used them in a real situation, and tried and tested lot of different kind of weapons and what works for me may simply not work for you.
For example, here for me good choice is AK-47 rifle, maybe for you wherever you are it is very bad choice.
Good advice is : you need to have a weapon that most people have around you because of multiple reasons: spare parts, repairing, ammunition availability, possibility that you can pick that rifle from other people and you know how to use it.
What caliber and similar is a matter of discussion again. I am talking from the point of owning a rifle.
Another thing is that you need to know how that weapon works. Luckily, most of my readers live in an area where gun laws are great comparing to region where I am.
You have much more choices when it comes to owning a weapon and practicing with it. Use that.
And do not forget that using weapon in a real life situation is not like shooting at beer bottles with your friends after a barbecue.
In real life you might be in a situation to use a weapon while you are tired, dirty, and hungry and while someone is screaming next to you.
It is going to be maybe when you are not ready to do that, maybe in pitch dark, maybe after you have been awake for 48 hours.
At least think about that.
When should you use violence?
Contrary to some popular beliefs in the prepper community, the point is to use violence only as a last solution.
The reason is as I mentioned already, the risk that you can be hurt or killed too, but also once you do violence you change your own rules, or push it more forward, and it is easy to get lost in violence.
There are consequences to that, and you are not going to be the same person ever again.
Violence is a tool, not a toy. You need to know how to use it as best as possible, but also to avoid using it when it is not necessary.
It is a good idea to set up a clear set of rules (mentally too) when you are gonna use violence and to try to stick to it.
For example you will use weapon if someone tries to break your home and attack you, and you need to be ready to do that without hesitation.
What else should we know about post-collapse violence?
Think with your head and research.
One thing that is absolutely important when it comes to understanding how violent it is going to be and what can you expect in your own case of SHTF, is to understand how much media can influence people in making their decisions about violence.
In my case, the media built up situation where people feared so much from other people that they actually hated them. They hated them so much that they actually strip them down from humanity.
In a real-life example, it works in a way that people killed other people, including kids and women, because they hated them so much because media told them.
It may look ridiculous and not possible to you, and you might again think “that can not happen here” but please trust your own resources, look for independent information, not mainstream media, in order to get the right information about what is really happening in the beginning of collapse.
Do not be pulled into “popular opinion” just because the “man from TV” (whoever he might be) told you so.
It is easier today. Because of the internet, you have much more choices for correct information than in my time. But still be careful, you might find yourself rioting together with 500 people just because you trusted some media.
* * *
More from Selco
- Selco: The Reality of Barter and Trade in an SHTF Economy
- Selco: Who Survives and Who Dies When the SHTF?
- Selco: How to Stay Warm During a Long-Term SHTF Situation
- Stories from an SHTF Christmas: An Interview with Selco
- Selco: What an “Average Day” Is REALLY Like When the SHTF
More information about Selco
Selco survived the Balkan war of the 90s in a city under siege, without electricity, running water, or food distribution.
In his online works, he gives an inside view of the reality of survival under the harshest conditions. He reviews what works and what doesn’t, tells you the hard lessons he learned, and shares how he prepares today.
He never stopped learning about survival and preparedness since the war. Regardless what happens, chances are you will never experience extreme situations like Selco did. But you have the chance to learn from him and how he faced death for months.
Real survival is not romantic or idealistic. It is brutal, hard and unfair. Let Selco take you into that world.
Read more of Selco’s articles here: https://shtfschool.com/blog/
And take advantage of a deep and profound insight into his knowledge and advice by signing up for the outstanding and unrivaled online course. More details here: https://shtfschool.com/survival-boot-camp/
Disputes between armed people and unarmed or lightly armed people, regardless of merit on either side, are almost always decided in favor of the armed or most heavily armed side.
That’s more than conjecture, there are numerous social and psychological research studies that have been done to demonstrate this rather unexpected result.
So decide which you will be, it’s your choice now but may not remain that way for long.
It’s a rather unexpected result that the most heavily armed party wins?
WTF?
In any event, the human mind is easily the most deadly weapon and can more than make up for disadvantages in physical arms. I purposely carry an old fashioned 6 shooter because I know it’s more than enough for any conceivable self defense situation, given a sharp mind and the will to use it.
If it wasn’t unexpected, why did the academic studies have to be conducted to find it out?
Free money and self-aggrandizement.
Unexpected result? Really? It’s unexpected that in a situation between someone armed vs. someone unarmed favorability goes to the armed person?
To control a nation you must first disarm the people.
-some famous dead clown
Coming to a nation near you soon!
“Some gang leaders that I knew were actually completely sick people with a strange type of charisma that makes people follow them, weird situations that can happen only in a real collapse.”
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This one is probably closer to what we will face.
http://www.survival-spot.com/survival-blog/argentina-collapse/
It’s an interesting blog, there’s also a book explaining more about the black markets, the gun fights, the different ways to protect yourself, the way to conduct yourself outside, keep your mouth shut, don’t trust others, blend in, etc etc etc.
When my son sold his second sailboat it was to an American who fled California to Argentina because he was tired of paying all the taxes. He never expatriated because the IRS wants him.
He moved to Argentina just before their economic collapse, he said big cities like Buenos Aires were hellholes, he lived in a smaller town far away from the big cities and avoided a lot of the turmoil but not all.
I went to Argentina on a hunting trip in 2011 and spent two days in Buenos Aires, I was still advised not to walk around by myself, day or night because of the newly created poverty.
Take off your watch, don’t take your camera, put a $50 bill in each front pocket, when you get your ass beat give them one $50 bill, when you get your ass beat again give them the other $50 bill and hope you can make it back before you get your ass beat again. OK, I’ll stay with you guys…..
There were entire cities within the city of families living in a hut made out of plastic or skids, we arrived during a civil uprising. It was quite unnerving driving up a 12 lane highway into the city that is blocked by burning tires, people on motorbikes carrying machetes and the roads and bridges are lined with people carrying wood clubs and looking for a government official, the cops? They were smart to stay away.
Our driver told us to sink down in the seats and not look around because if the protesters saw a gringo, they knew we had $US. I think we were very lucky our driver was a long time friend of the guy I was with. When I was there the exchange rate was $1US= $5 Argentine Peso, today it’s $1US= $19 Argentine Peso.
Roberto (our driver) came for a visit two years ago, he’s a master (40 years old) Olympian swimmer and was competing in Montreal so swung by Michigan for the summer. I found him a lot of cash jobs and we went shopping in all the Goodwills etc, he found a U of M Jacket for $25, he said he could sell this back home for $1000 peso. He went home with $6k US, paying for his trip and then some.
It cost him $60,000 peso just for his flight here and back and he couldn’t go to the bank and exchange his peso for $US, he had to go through the black market, the banks are for the politicians and the wealthy.
That’s inflation of a worthless currency, and that’s what we’ll have once we lose the reserve currency status.
BEST prepper article here EVER.
Bookmark her page!
https://shtfschool.com/blog/
From his lips to your ears.
Adjust for your circumstances.
“Do not look like a prepper (before or after SHTF). There is no sense in announcing that you are prepping for EMP, civil collapse, apocalypse, or whatever.”
YOU HEAR THAT, MAGGIE???
No? Ok, keep writing incredibly detailed posts about your doomstead and prepping activities. You might be fucked, though.
Maggie thought the security guard put his own gun down on the counter instead of the robber’s PLASTIC TOY GUN.
Attention to detail doesn’t seem to be her strong suit.
Nah, all of her “neighbors” are probably preppers too, I picture her Ozark hills are just a series of small family forts all waiting for the end times.
All my friends right there
The first rule of Prepper Club is: you do not talk about Prepper Club.
The second rule of Prepper Club is: you DO NOT talk about Prepper Club!
Selco never came up against a half dozen “designated marksmen” vet’s who practice at a range once a month (or more), refining skills from an IPSC carbine course to 1000 meter engagements. He also mentions the dearth of firearms and ammo. Not quite like the Redoubt!
Excellent perspective on what to expect when order collapses.
PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING PASSAGE!!!
“People in the country (rural settings) were much more “connected to ground” they were more tough if you like, they grew their own food, had cattle, lived more simple life prior SHTF and when everything collapsed they had less problems getting use to it…they adapted easier to the new life because they had more useful skills then people in the city.
Life was harder for them too than prior to the collapse, but they had means to get resources: land, woods, river…
Another thing is that people in small rural communities “in the country” were more connected to each other, people knew their neighborhood…”
During peaceful times the rural life may seem ‘boring’ or backward, but it isn’t and all it does is set you up to handle increasingly more difficult challenges that you face in life.
Human beings are here because they are violent, dangerous, predatory and intelligent. Those attributes are latent in everyone of us to some degree or another. It is always best that those traits are channeled into productive means, but if and when TSHTF it’s far better to be able to immediately suss out your situation and the options available and to have both the means and the opportunity to do whatever you must in order to not be the victim of someone who is willing to exercise their will and power over you.
The only thing I disagree with in the entire article- and any combat vet will concur- violence is never best when it’s reactive, it is always an advantage to strike first and to do so decisively. For those who get their combat pointers from The Walking Dead, you don’t stand around jack-jawing with a guy who beats people’s brains out with a barb-wire covered baseball bat, you shoot him at the first opportunity before he even knows you are there.
Violence is not something people in a well ordered society are used to dealing with, but is as essential a skill set as carpentry or welding and it has it’s place and time. Do not think that you can negotiate your way through a lawless encounter. In those situations only decisive and overwhelming force will work.
The firstest with the mostest.
“Human beings are here because they are violent, dangerous, predatory and intelligent. ”
I love this line. Every time someone quotes the benevolence of mankind (in defense of socialism typically) I spout off something similar….but it always takes me too long.
I’m stealing this for future use HSF.
The truth is about humanimal. Not violence. Not shit. Or fans. Brutal? That telegraphs a stance *about* truth. An aversion to it. A preference for fairy stories.
Be 1st can be good advice in a given context. But no better advice than be a counterpuncher 1st, if that’s a higher skill you possess. 1st can, often does, jump the gun. If you’re indifferent to that, see truth about humanimal…iow, humanimal don’t care, as much as s\he may pretend otherwise…& humanimal is majority, in every ‘community.’ That goes for nuclear family communities, too, within the larger bomb. In fact, agglomeration acts as an accelerant to that feature, not bug, of the species. Pascal’s wager was lotto tix buying, but about this he was right: “All of humanity’s problems stem from man’s inability to sit quietly in a room alone.”
“Well-ordered society” is not only full of violence, it is predicated upon violence – starting with the monopoly ‘at the top.’ The words are, as always, just veneer(ial) games. Combat under orders & in uniforms is no necessary slice of experience, as the whole rest of the pie contains plenty of the same experience, & it’s available to whoever’s available enough, has capacity enough, is awake or situationally aware enough; the hinge is merely capacity for experience, your own & others. The violence is there, always. Those Bosnians, Argentineans, didn’t become – they already were. Same goes for all the mutt(onhead)s I’ve crossed paths with.
Whether sentimentality eventuates in a more literal decapitation, Valentines, or not, it is already a kind of headless meandering, as all strangers in a strange land know. Desperado, understanding queen o’ ♥-shaped world is your best friend (but fences are good, too).
Plus, everybody dies. Just a question of when, hombre. Which is to say when doesn’t matter. Nor does how matter. How you live, are, be, do matters – right up until the dust bites. Then that ceases to matter, too. I like how this one handled the end, & what he had to say about all the sentimentality in humanimaland:
Raleigh was beheaded in the Old Palace Yard at the Palace of Westminster on 29 October 1618. “Let us dispatch”, he said to his executioner. “At this hour my ague comes upon me. I would not have my enemies think I quaked from fear.” After he was allowed to see the axe that would be used to behead him, he mused: “This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries.” According to biographers, Raleigh’s last words (as he lay ready for the axe to fall) were: “Strike, man, strike!”[37]
Taoism. Shit happens.
Confucianism. Confucius say, “shit happens.”
Buddhism. If shit happens, it’s not really shit.
Zen-Buddhism. What is the sound of shit happening?
Hinduism. This shit happened before.
Isalm. If shit happens, it is the will of allah.
Protestanism. Let shit happen to someone else.
Catholicism. If shit happens, you deserve it.
Judaism. Why does this shit always happen to us?
New age. A firm shit does not happen.
Atheist. I don’t believe this shit.
Rastafarian. Let’s roll that shit up & smoke it.
☻
HS,
Yep Bedford Forrest was right.
Tell them Hardscrabble. That’s why you’re a first round draft pick for foxhole duty. It ain’t a pretty sport
Just another recycled doom porn circle jerk echo chamber article.
The text of this article has been kicked around like a red-headed stepchild for years on Michael Snyder’s and Mac Slavo’s toddler-level doom porn sites.
Now here it is again… a pox on this much esteemed blog.
TBP you can do better than this!
Hmmmmmmmm………….better than this………
What I get from this much esteemed blog is ideas, or articles that cause me to pause, to think, to examine, to investigate, not simple black and white answers.
But if you like to be told what to do. Leave this much esteemed blog and I hope you get a pox on your ass.
22winmag – supercalafragilisticexpi…aw who gives a fuck:
I notice that you leave very similar commentary every time a prepper-type article comes along. Clearly the dearth of high quality content bothers you deeply.
I have an idea. Since you have expertise and top competency in this area, please write an article that sets the the record straight on how things really are.
No doom porn. No circle jerk. No echo chamber or toddler-level discourse. Just the facts.
I know that I would love to see your work.
I don’t know about actual rich people, but middle-to-upper-middle class people don’t have much in their houses worth stealing. What do robbers want? Guns, cash and drugs. Maybe after TSHTF, they’ll want food. You break into some lawyer or doctor’s house – what are you going to find? No cash, no gold, no drugs and no guns. All you could find is a couple of IPads and a bunch of mutual fund statements. Keys to the Volvo maybe. Maybe they could steal the skis out of the garage or some expensive tennis racket. As for food, all you’ll find is matcha tea and organic tofu. Hood rats will mostly steal in the hood, I think, as they do now.
What if hood rats don’t want to steal as much as they just want to burn that shit down?
I live north of a smallish city, they have a distinct line that is the Heights where the majority of the crime and poverty resides, then the rest of us. I’m waiting for the day when the checks stop, the liquor stores are dried up, burned out stores and no more free BBQ.
Whachugonnado?
Burn down fucking whitey, dats whut we gonna do.
This is one of your better posts. Preppers come from all walk of life and all income levels.
I’d venture to say a majority of McMansions wouldn’t be worth raiding after a SHTF event. On average, probably less food and usable goods than a working class household.
It might be nice to spraypaint the walls, shit on the Persian rug, and stab the leather furniture though. You know… morale boosters.
I grew up in a very religious home. One thing that was always taught as important was moving to the country because one day the cities will burn.
I have got to get out of the D.C. area.
Here’s some advice for America. Form a tight circle of friends. Monoracial is the way to go. Diverse is either going to fight or have possible traitors. It is about race here. Don’t know that, you’re gone anyway. Split from urban centers. As far as possible. Do not go back for any reason until stability and some form of governance is restored. Watch out for stragglers. They might be bait. Some girlfriend of a diverse gang could wipe you out. Believe it. It happens now.
Stay with your group. Do not trust outsiders unless you know them. Get somewhere that has a clear field of vision. Stay away from heavy brush or obstacles. This is ambush territory. If you go into the woods, go with someone who lived near it. Don’t try to go camping. If no one knows the woods, you won’t make it there. It is however good for cover if you are being pursued. Do not go into bushes. Look for water and try to stay under as much as possible. Do not wear camouflage unless you have to. City camo is going to attract the cops. You do not want to look paramilitary in a situation like this. Use a dark color. Move at night if possible.
Shoot first. Do not give the benefit of the doubt until things calm down. Stop being nice. Do not give anything to anyone outside your group. Get something that looks old to drive but has a good engine and gas mileage. Anything sweet on the road will be a target for carjacking.
This is tough. Leave someone behind if you have to. Don’t try to be a hero and rescue anyone that isn’t able to run. Do not try to carry anyone for more than a mile. It’ll get more of you killed. Sounds cold, but you want to make it out alive.
After reading about 40 of Selco’s 165 blog articles including this one, I was depressed for a couple weeks. I’ve since reconciled myself to the fact that I probably would not survive the long-term brutality he experienced nor would I like what I’d become. I’m prepped for the short-term (3 months tops) but I doubt I could do what he did for a year. Time will tell. I hope I never find out.
Reading his articles and comparing them to his readers’ naïve questions and comments demonstrates how out of touch many of us are and how ‘romantic’ our notions of survival are (“running to the hills.”) Got news for you: the hill people don’t want us.
Another matter of great importance is charity. Are you prepared to turn away unprepared relatives or a young mother and her small children? We need to decide that before the SHTF because, once it does, such heated arguments could well tear apart our group. I strongly suggest reading the article linked below for a very brutal and honest take on this to develop a plan set in stone.
SHTF charity is for fools
https://personalliberty.com/shtf-charity-fools/
The reset is coming.
Call it a jubilee, a default, a reset, bankruptcy or whatever, but as Admin has tirelessly pointed out for years, it’s coming. Yes, we can kick the can, or paper over, NIRP the shit out of it, but not forever.
What we do as a Nation will determine the level of collapse. The banksters have a gun to the head of these United States, if the people try and fuck them and De-finacialize their control mechanisms, you can bet they will make them pay.
If the people play ball and accept Globalist control, retirement of the Constitution, and institution of the new global financial paradigm, the reset might be more mundane, like Argentina.
If the people say fuck you, fuck your New World Order, and try to claw sovereignty back, the horseman of the apocalypse will be unleashed.
America will be put down.
Yugo style, as in the above article, with the Globalist following up with an international Cleaning Crew, probably Chinese and Indians and others.
Out of Chaos, Order.
Wow, The stuff the author described in his real world situation is exactly like William Forstchen described in his novel “One Second After”. Everybody should read that book about what a American societal collapse would look like after a EMP attack. I think its time to start looking for some weapons to purchase. Since the AR-15’s are probably the most common self-defense rifle in America, that will be a good place to start. Going to a gun show in another week so will look there.
Look at Grabagun. DPMS Oracle Panther AR entry level for $389. Plain flat top no ornaments.
Better still, maybe one of those new 12 gauge 14 inch barrel pistol gripped firearms, hard to beat those in close quarters.
There’s also a 20 gauge available for girls and girly men, by Mossberg I think.
Check out the Mossberg Shockwave 20 Gauge…little girl, older sister, Mom, and Dad. The Family that practices muscle memory shooting together survives together.
I have one (for my petite wife) and will be buying at least one more, possibly two more for both my cars.
It fits in a small sling over your back and in a full combat mode with an assault rife in your hands (chest rig holding 5 40 round mags two taped together in the well) a pistol on your side
and another pistol on your ankle you will be formidable in a worst case fight.
Mark, thank you for that advice on the 20 gauge. Being only 98 pounds, that sounds perfect for me.
You often mention your weight. Do you have an eating disorder?
No eating disorder. I’ve never eaten a lot. My father used to tell me I ate like a bird. My father was tall and skinny, and my mother was short and skinny, so I guess I get it from them.
As far as the gun, being small, I never bought a shotgun because I was told it would knock me on my ass. If this one is made for women and children then it will work for me.
Some recommend the Mossberg semi-auto (I don’t know your level of firearms familiarity. Semi-auto means the weapon will eject the empty case and load another with no input on your part) SA-20 shotgun: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/11/8/mossberg-sa-20-tactical-shotgun/
VV,
20 gauge is perfect for a small person or anyone for close in home defense.
You can get a side saddle put on the shock wave and a small light as well. That gives you 1 in the chamber 5 in the gun and 5 on the side saddle.
That is a lot of fire power is a small shotgun with little recoil.
If you get one always use the strap and keep your forward hand inside of it.
The most dangerous aspect of a short barred shotgun like this, if you’re new to shotguns, is your hand slipping off and getting in front of the barrel then pulling the trigger. It has happened so I’ve read. The strap will stop that.
Here are some options. https://www.gggaz.com/mossberg-shockwave-accessories.html
The gun is about $400, tricked out with a side saddle, sling, light and over the shoulder sling about $700.
It is a serious weapon not too expensive and fun to shoot!
Thank you, Mark, for that great information. I’m definitely looking into that. I would love to have a shotgun.
While acknowledging the possibility of shit falling apart, it is a rather short sighted endeavor. With all of the mental horsepower, resources, and technology available, more valuable conversations would center around designing a more antifragle financial system. This seems critical to prepping, or are you planning on living on freeze dried shit forever?
Real preppers would surely have a plan for a return to civility, what does that look like, because now is the time to formulate that plan.
What is money going to look like?
What is to be done with the debt?
What is to be done with the promises?
Yeah, pack some beans, bullets, and bullion, but everyone would be better served to start prepping for after the event, god knows those that came before us had both the foresight and the fortitude to do so and we have enjoyed these efforts to the upmost.
What is it gonna be, it is about time.
CASE STUDY for Baby Step # 7 – “Make New Friends but Keep the Old”:
Last fall, I had some new neighbors move into my neck of the woods. One day, not long after they moved in, I saw the guy outside, stopped my rig, and introduced myself. Over the next several months I would talk to him from time to time and we exchanged phone #’s. Around Christmas, we dropped off some treats at their house and he texted me back that he was “so happy to have us as neighbors and thanks for helping him and his wife to feel welcome”.
So, yesterday, I texted him and invited him and his wife to come over this morning and I would make us some breakfast and coffee. Although the wife couldn’t come, he took me up on the offer. He just left a few hours ago.
Here is what I discovered:
– Although a career educator, he began to forsake his liberal ways over the Clinton / Lewinsky affair; which was initiated by Slick Willie’s lies in particular.
– He is 66 years old (but looks like he could be in his late forties), is a former avid runner in very good shape, but has since cut down on his running due to his knees. He watches what he eats.
– He downsized from a 7-acre homestead in order to buy a smaller ranch house (for the sake of his knees) and his wife wanted to be closer to town.
– He enjoys camping.
– He was fairly self-sufficient for 30+ years and all that entails. He can fell a tree and split firewood.
– He is moderately red-pilled yet, with two warning flags: 1.) He still plays the stock market and, 2.) he says he doesn’t think much about the future because he can’t change anything and claims he is too old to worry about things beyond his control anyway.
There is more but you get the idea.
I asked questions without appearing like I had agenda. I told him the meal was “just to get better acquainted” and established some common ground before probing. For example, when he told about his career before retirement, I said:
“You know…. (name), when I first saw the Benghazi “Hillary Lied, People Died ” bumper sticker on your truck, I thought I might have a new best friend…. but now… you tell me you were a career educator….. did you buy that truck from someone else?”
He belly laughed before telling me how he escaped liberal-land (i.e. – via Slick Willie) along with the corresponding Facebook warfare with his colleagues through the years.
Although I limited my sharing to the level I felt he was ready for at this time, I am glad to have gotten better acquainted; and for the information.
Good to know.
@ Uncola – Selco says it’s important to start forming loose associations with a view to eventually becoming a survival/support group.
He also says we’ll be surprised and disappointed in people. Those we most trust may betray us and those we wrote off as useless before the SHTF may become unexpectedly supportive. Your new neighbor might surprise you more than you think.
In no way am I writing him off. I see him as a work in progress.
Baby steps (# 7):
At 56 years of age I am asking myself already would it be worth killing People just for a few more years of life.Men at my age might live to mid 70s ( if Lucky )maybe 80s ( if real Lucky ) and that’s it.Seems at my age Preparing for the next life might be more realistic.I had an uncle die just last week at the age of 67 from cancer.They told him he had 1 to 2 years but he was dead in 3 months. The author is right .If you hurt or kill someone you have changed the rules. Especially with Christ.At this point I just don’t know if it’s worth changing the rules.
Not for me either, and I’m most certainly not going to take away years of future life from some young person for the year or so (at best) I might have left for myself in a collapse and breakdown situation.
That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t defend from an attack, but it does mean I’d probably be willing to sacrifice myself to give the young a shot at the future.
@ Anonymous – Expect everything to change after the first shot’s fired. Two things Selco says:
1) Older folks will be very valuable for their considerable experience.
2) The young have a high death rate because of overconfidence. You might be sacrificing yourself for nothing.
Run a hose from the tractor exhaust into the cab. Then you and li’l bb can be with Jesus forever.
God doesn’t approve of suicide because that, too, is taking a life.
Ah, but what if I kill myself so that my family may live?
For example we only have so much food, and I die by whatever means so my wife and son survive. Wouldn’t that be noble enough to allow entry into the pearly gates?
But wouldn’t it be better to live so you can take care of your family and work together to find food or grow it or forage? You never know what the future holds. You may find a lovely area with a river full of catchable fish next to edible greens. By killing yourself, you would be abandoning your family to an unknown fate. A woman and child alone together is not a good recipe for survival.
Didn’t answer the question.
If you die while trying to protect your family, I believe you would go to heaven. If you killed yourself, I don’t believe you would. Though both are taking a life, you aren’t really protecting your family with suicide because, as I said, you don’t know what the future holds and God’s plans for you. And you could be leaving your family in a worse situation than had you lived and found a way to survive.
In fact, I wouldn’t mind hearing from Stucky on that question as well.
“In fact, I wouldn’t mind hearing from Stucky on that question as well.” —– Vixen
I’m a good person to ask because in my younger life, even as a Christian, I had a few long bouts with thoughts of suicide. So, I studied it in depth. Briefly…
The natural place to start in the Bible is to look for examples of suicide.
Six people are recorded as committing suicide. Five were generally wicked, and the other a minor character of whom not much is known. In not one case does God have anything to say about the suicide. (So, why should we?
Now, the Bible has no opinion about a lot of things, and one should not form an opinion, either pro or con, from The Argument From Silence. I get that.
But, you’re asking about the destiny of a person … who just so happened to commit suicide. And the Bible is not silent about destiny.
If one says a suicide victim can not go to heaven … then what you are truly saying is that the person has committed a sin — and suicide IS a sin — which can not be forgiven.
The Bible also has something to say about a sin that can not be forgiven. And it’s NOT suicide. It’s blasphemy against the Holy Spirit!
Suicide is murder — murder of self. Are there murderers in heaven? Of course there are. The Bible is replete with examples of those who have murdered, yet are with the Lord. Look no further than King David. Suicide is no different.
Well, hold on! You might argue that because a person cannot ask for specific forgiveness after suicide that it will separate one from God forever. Nonsense! There are many sins that may never be confessed before our death. No one has ever confessed every single din they have committed! And the Bible is clear that when we are in Christ, nothing will separate us from Him, not even death … no matter how that death came to fruition.
Lastly, the condemnation to hell of those who commit suicide makes an utter mockery of God’s Amazing Grace. It paints him as a monster who has no compassion. No, God is not like that.
In summary, from a Biblical perspective, I am 100% certain that a Christian who commits suicide will find himself comforted in the arms of the gracious and compassionate Father in heaven …. and the pains and horrors that tormented them in this life will be replaced with joy, and their tears will be washed away. Jesus died for our sins!! Even the sin of suicide.
That’s so wrong. But I laughed
Sometimes killing other people not for living longer but for principles and justice.
I read the poem by the most famous Hungarian poet, Petofi.
“Liberty and love
These two I must have.
For my love I’ll sacrifice My life.
For liberty I’ll sacrifice My love.”
― Sándor Petőfi
BB 56 minus 75 is 19. Nineteen more years of living ain’t small potatoes. Anyway, didn’t you just purchase an 870 and some buckshot? You gonna use that shotgun as a door stop?
BB,
By the way I raised you and your Mother up during my Sunday school Bible meeting last week. Just asked for unspoken needs for an internet friend. Five serious prayer warriors in the class.
I share the limited number of grains of sand in the top of the bottle with you, I’m 68 and I don’t want to live by or die by the sword or do anything to grieve the spirit or let alone change the rules with the face to face with Jesus. I have enough to answer for already – although I’m assured.
I am a pessimist on the short term but an optimist on the end of the beginning. I feel an overpowering sense to prepare in every way. I have two cases of paperback Bibles stashed in my hayloft.
I believe the 4th Turning – Tribulation will be a lot of things, some of it horrific as I take prophecy literally and one of them will be the greatest harvest of souls in the history of the world.
Everyone has to make their own plans and decisions that is right, true and just for them.
If you believe that urban dwellers will leave the city in mass as hungry hoards, I think you’re wrong. The unknown is much scarier than the known. I worked in juvenile facility for just a short time and it was an eye opener. Kids from New Jersey, fifteen to seventeen years old. Most were car thieves and small-time drug sellers. 90% black, 10% white. 100% scared of open spaces. The facility was private and located in a small town on the American prairie. The doors were locked, but nothing would stop them from opening a window and pushing out the screen and jumping four feet to the ground. There was a small group escape once. They all turned themselves in once they encountered the edge of town. The all white locals were friendly and knew where the boys came from and wouldn’t offer them rides. The experience scared the shit out of those kids. I escorted one boy to the ER in the hospital located on the edge of town. He was big and brave when indoors, but held onto my shoulder as we walked across the parking lot. He looked over his should as though wild creatures were giving him the eye. Small towns and open country may be safer, but familiarity tops safer and urban dwellers will remain urban dwellers.
@Penforce – Selco’s experience confirms yours. Most people won’t accept what’s happening and will hope things get better. They won’t try to leave the cities until it’s too late to do so.
Keep your range time up and your prep stores up and up to date . It’s just a matter of time now !
Stucky, the post didn’t give me an option to answer under your comment, so I’ll do a new post.
Though we differ in our arguments, my biggest question is whether the Bible, in the 10 Commandments, says it’s a sin to “murder” or a sin to “kill.” Those are two different things. Can you give me your opinion on that? That question has always plagued me. I don’t read Hebrew and don’t know what the original writings say. What is the true wording of the commandment? Do you know?
If you are referring to the Decalogue, the correct translation is this — “Thou shalt not MURDER.”
All murders are also killings.
But, not all killing is murder.
Think about that for a while.
As such, the 6th commandment does not prohibit killing as punishment for crimes … or soldiers killing in wat … or killing a person to protect your own life, or even property. This is rather basic common knowledge, and widely accepted.
Murder, as used in the 6th commandment implies the
PREMEDITATED taking of human life.
What is lessor known is that Paul the Usurper says (in Romans 13:4) that God institutes governments and its apparatus, the police and military, with the power and right to kill you!
“For government is God’s servant to you for good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not CARRY THE SWORD for no reason. For government is God’s servant, an AVENGER that brings WRATH on the one who does wrong.”
That verse should be a HORROR to liberty-minded freedom-loving people everywhere.
Indeed, we have many here who realize that government, while necessary, is inherently evil. That its power comes at the point of a gun. That it always leads to enslavement.
Many of these people, like yourself, are Christians. Yet, you have this verse )Usurper Paul had many others) which extols government as virtuous to the point of being a servant of God … a servant who is allowed to KILL you —- not murder which is evil, but kill you, which is righteous!!! Yup, according to Paul, God sanctions State sponsored killings upon those who merely do “wrong”.
Holy shit. The mental gymnastics Christians employ to reconcile such pro-government claptrap verses with their love of liberty and freedom is truly an amazing thing to behold.
Thank you for than answer, Stucky. I don’t follow Paul’s teaching on government being a servant of God and that we should be obedient to government authority. If God says do not “murder” then I think the government doesn’t have that right as well. As a Libertarian Christian, I would be happy to see no armed cops. Period. In my opinion, the government has no right to do anything the people themselves can’t do. People who govern themselves, as Christians are instructed to do, should never even need a cop! And I believe the military should never be worshiped as it is in American today.
I used to be a violent man. In a bar fight I would watch as the loud mouth would work himself up to get to the point where he would finally have the courage to throw a punch, and then take him out right before he got there.
Most people are not psychologically prepared to act violently. Most hesitate. In combat that can get you killed. So we were trained to shoot first and often. This is partially why you have seen an increase in cops killing people. Some of the cops are vets. One of the other reasons is non vet cops being scared and having their finger on the trigger. Several of the recent shootings were accidental. The cop flinched.
If this society turned mad max would I defend my tribe against those seeking to rob us? Sure. That’s my job.
The earlier posts about mcmansions not being worth looting by the gangs is mistaken. There is always you and your family there. Females for a little fun and you to be tortured to death.
No, I won’t do that. But look at Rhodesia and what is happening to white farmers in South Africa and Zimbabwe right now. RIGHT NOW this is happening.
People are the worst animals on the planet and I have been stunned many times by what I have seen them do to each other. Both as a Marine and as a trauma nurse.
Selco has talked about how snipers would just shoot anyone they saw. Just for the fun of it.
BTW, the mossburg shockwave in 20 gauge might be alright for smaller people, but it will only hold 5 rounds in the tube.
You can buy a 12 gauge version and place a small rubber adapter in the chamber and then use mini shells. Changes it from 5 in the chamber to 8 with no loss of effectiveness and even less recoil than the 20 gauge one.
And in a pinch you can remove the adapter and use full size shells in it. 12 gauge is nice because you can buy specialty rounds like oc pepper for the first one out the barrel. A 6 foot wide cone of pepper spray is a nice show starter. Just a thought.
SemperFido,
I haven’t tried the mini shells yet, need to get a couple of boxes.
Mark, you have to have the adapter for them to feed reliably. It is cheap and easily found on Amazon. The minis are not cheap, but you don’t need a ton of them. I have found the site, ammofast almost always has some and I just looked and they also have the adapter for 15 bucks. Well worth it. I really like the SW with the minis. Makes it a pleasure to shoot. The adapter and minis will work in any mossburg pump btw.
SemperFido,
Thanks buddy…I’ll check it out!
Semper Fi