Jordan Peterson: the Bible is the foundational document for Western civilisation

Via Catholic Herald

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Although there is a Gnostic element to his thinking, Peterson’s work is permeated with biblical references

It is safe to say that Dr Jordan B Peterson’s new book, 12 Rules for Life: an Antidote to Chaos (Random House) will occupy international bestseller lists for some time. That is because our restless western intelligentsia is always on the lookout for a new guru and eager to ingest a new self-help manual. I should now add that Peterson, a psychology professor (as well as a practising clinical psychologist) at Toronto University, does not set out to be a guru and his book is much richer, more diverse in its cultural references and thoughtful than the phrase “a self-help manual” would suggest.

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Peterson rejected the Christian religion in which he was raised in a small, remote town of north-west Canada. Yet unlike other highly intelligent figures who come to dominate the media, such as Richard Dawkins or the late Christopher Hitchens, he is in no way hostile to Christianity. Indeed, his very wide reading of great literary figures, such as Dostoyevsky, Dante and Goethe, alongside Carl Jung, Freud, the critic Northrop Frye and many others, have given him respect – even reverence – for the part religion has played in the evolution of human consciousness.

Although there is a Gnostic element to his thinking and he sometimes appears to equate “the Way, the Taoist path of life [as] the same Way as that referred to by Christ in John 14:6”, his book is permeated with biblical references and it is clear that he is fascinated by the enigmatic and mysterious person of Christ. If he is not (yet) willing to nail his colours to the Christian mast, Peterson acknowledges both explicitly and implicitly in his precepts for right living that the wisdom of the Gospels is the way to healthy human, psychological and emotional fulfilment.

He writes, “The Bible is, for better or worse, the foundational document of western civilization…Its careful, respectful study can reveal things to us about what we believe and how we do and should act that can be discovered in almost no other manner.”

Peterson’s antithesis between “rules” and “chaos” is interpreted by him in different ways. “Rules”, he notes, can be rigid and inflexible and “chaos” can be creative; nonetheless, the unwinding thread of his argument is that man needs “order” to achieve a meaningful life and “chaos” – i.e. a life lived without structure or purpose (which he witnesses often in his clinical patients’ unhappy lives) – will cause unhappiness and self-destruction.

To give readers an idea of the language Peterson uses, he writes in his Overture, “The soul of the individual eternally hungers for the wisdom of genuine Being” (“Being” is the word he uses where Christians would write “Personhood”.) On its own this might sound like woolly secular mysticism, but the author constantly refines “Being” so that his Rules often seem a secular paraphrase of Christian moral teachings. For instance, Rule 1, “Stand up Straight with Your Shoulders Back”, is interpreted by Peterson thus: “It means acting to please God in the ancient language…It is to accept the terrible responsibility of life, with eyes wide open.”

Later on he observes, “Only man will inflict suffering for the sake of suffering”, adding “And with this realization we have…full legitimization of the idea …of Original Sin.”

One of the things I like about this book is that the author, without preaching at all from a religious standpoint, sets his face firmly against the politically correct ideology put out by the Establishment. He repudiates the idea that gender is “a social construct” with the incisive response, “It isn’t. This isn’t a debate. The data are in.” (This, incidentally, is why he came over as more authoritative, wiser and knowledgeable than Cathy Newman in the now notorious Channel 4 interview; he has spent years reading and reflecting on “the data.”)

He also asks, “Was it a really good thing, for example, to so drastically liberalise the divorce laws in the 1960s?” and for “the child who is pushing the limits” he comments that “a swat on the backside can indicate requisite seriousness.” You can see why those who advocate a Left-wing liberal agenda and ideology are baffled by him, dislike him yet also fear him. He is a man of integrity and courage, simply refusing to bow to the current fad or ideology and prepared to go to prison for what he deeply believes.

He is also, for someone who has now attracted worldwide publicity, a humble man. This is because he is wise enough to know he is also ignorant of many things and also because his clinical practice constantly shows him the misery people endure when they have never experienced wise guidance and counsel. He is insistent that psychotherapy has to be “a genuine conversation”, reflecting that when two people open themselves up to “a deep conversation [it] places you in the same place that listening to great music places you…[it] puts you in the realm where souls connect.” This is not far from Newman’s “Heart speaks to heart.”

There is more one could say about such a thought-provoking book. I will conclude with quoting Peterson’s advice for Rule 6, which is “Set your house in perfect order before you criticise the world” (echoing Christ’s warnings about the plank and the mote). After describing the dark side of human behaviour he says firmly: “So, simply stop…Stop acting in that particular despicable manner.” As Christians, we know that we cannot transform our lives – in the way Peterson advocates – without grace. Nonetheless, it is good to be told to reform ourselves; not tomorrow or next week but now.

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35 Comments
Bubbah
Bubbah
March 8, 2018 12:26 pm

Nearly finished with the 12 rules, I have enjoyed it thus far. I have listened to Peterson debate and discuss many topics and found him to be an interesting and well thought out thinker. I was mildly surprised by the amount of biblical references and how much of it directly provides a theme for many of his rules. The article above was a good one. It blows my mind that the leftist have turned this guy into some type of boogy man. I suppose a Canadian psychology guy that doesn’t bow down and worship their new cult is a surprise to them. Although he is a white male so I suppose they can stop there. I just hope that he stays safe, far too much violent insanity at Colleges now adays, but socialism is moving away from the velvet fist of governance and their true colors are coming through.

Zarathustra
Zarathustra
March 8, 2018 12:37 pm

Nonsense. First of all there is no such thing as “western” civilization. Civilization has since the earliest days been the result of the co-mingling of different cultures, belief systems and technology. Even the barbarous Mongols contributed not because of anything of their own but rather spreading intermixing the different cultures throughout their vast empire. Ironically, the reason they never invaded Europe is because at the time, it was too poor to bother with.

Gilnut
Gilnut
  Zarathustra
March 8, 2018 12:42 pm

Ok, I’ll bite. If there’s no such thing as “Western” culture, then what culture is there? None at all? All the same? What constitutes “culture”?

i forget
i forget
  Gilnut
March 8, 2018 1:02 pm

Follower-leader dyad. Monkey see, monkey do. Unreviewed peer pressure – & capitulation to it. A lack of originality, of self. ‘Tell me who I am.’ Fear capitulated to: cowardice. The borg. All that stuff describes “culture.”

And then, because all this stuff is such a poor & motley reflection, it gets ennobled, lionized – psych defense mechs. It’s fight club stuff – “we’re the saviors of the world.” Schizoid delusion.

Spit that hook, else stringer & creel. Out of the Fryingpan river & into the pan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fryingpan_River

Zarathustra
Zarathustra
  Gilnut
March 8, 2018 5:18 pm

I said civilization, not culture. Of course there is western culture, but it wasn’t itself created in a vacuum but rather evolved from numerous sources including foreign cultures.

Gilnut
Gilnut
  Zarathustra
March 9, 2018 6:49 am

I knew you’d reply with something like that. It’s quite obvious, if you read the article, that culture and civilization in this article are synonymous. My question still stands. While I agree that no civilization/culture stands on it’s own, does that mean that it does not exist separate from those that came before, during, and after? Or are you simply saying that since a civilization may draw on outside influences, that it may not identify itself separate from them.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Zarathustra
March 8, 2018 1:36 pm

Man, you’re growing dumber by the day.

i forget
i forget
March 8, 2018 1:04 pm

The motives that precede the compulsion to compel that is ‘the bible’ – all of them – is the foundational duck(&cover)ument, the whitewashed picket fence that is “civilization.”

That should be obvious. But marking to market a trade that’s got you upside down is a skill largely unknown, a muscle largely unexercised.

Lincoln’s dreck is permeated with bib-references, too.

A. R. Wasem
A. R. Wasem
March 8, 2018 1:18 pm

What’s truly amazing, imo, is that Peterson is an even more effective speaker than he is a writer. That’s why the left has come to fear and hate him. He’s used to dealing with seriously emotionally disturbed individuals as a result of his psychotherapy practice and so when confronted with hysterical snowflakes throwing an emotional tantrum he serenely tears them to shreds intellectually – the entire time with a totally calm and rational demeanor and tone of voice.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  A. R. Wasem
March 8, 2018 1:41 pm
wdg
wdg
  Anonymous
March 8, 2018 3:56 pm

What I have noticed with the protests against Jordan Peterson at Queen’s University is that the protestors are dominated by females from the third-world mixed in with females of European background with a sprinkling of male agitators, some with masks who could be from anywhere. They may be part of George Soros’ international army of terrorists for all I know. Students commenting on YouTube have stated that some of the protestors are not from Queen’s University. The people in the auditorium listening to Peterson, by contrast, are dominantly white males. This indicates that European man is starting to emerge from a long, suicidal slumber and coming to the realization that the men who built Canada and the western world must now Take Back Canada and reestablish Christian Western Civilization. And to do this, it means that non-western people who are behaving as a fifth column undermining our Civilization must be sent back to their homelands and European women must resume their traditional and absolutely critical role as spouses, mothers and caretakers of traditions, culture, families and communities.

BB
BB
March 8, 2018 1:52 pm

Ok I’ll bite and then kick in balls .Mr . Z is Still recovering from child molestation at the hands of Catholic Nuns. Deep down he thought it was all kinda nice Until he found out they were lesbians.

I like this guy most of the time but he will not say anything about the subversive Jewish controlled media or anything​ else about our enemies in high places.I guess he likes​ getting those Million dollar pay days.

Zarathustra
Zarathustra
  BB
March 8, 2018 5:22 pm

Well this guy is saying that the Bible is the source of Western Civilization. From that you can infer that your beloved Jews are also fundamental to it. I say rubbish. The Greeks and Persians had much more influence than the fucking Jews and Oriental influences that seeped across Asia via the Silk Road are also under estimated.

General
General
March 8, 2018 2:02 pm

From my point of view, one of the key aspects of Western Civilization is that individuals have specific unassailable rights that supercede any and all laws. And because of those rights, government is inherently limited to what it can do, which also importantly limits governmental corruption.

MarshRabbit
MarshRabbit
  General
March 8, 2018 2:52 pm

“one of the key aspects of Western Civilization is that individuals have specific unassailable rights that supercede any and all laws”. Huh? not before Magna Carta, and even Magna Carta was pretty limited.

General
General
  MarshRabbit
March 8, 2018 3:22 pm

Show me any other culture. Any at all, where individuals have innate rights. While I could be wrong, as far as know, only Western civilization developed that.

i forget
i forget
  General
March 8, 2018 2:58 pm

Individuals, whatever the compass points, cardinal directions, have specific properties. That so many “choose” (reflex) to rent those properties out cheap, make themselves into slum-dwelling lords, is also one of those human properties. The tenement tendency. Here come da’ herds. & they want rent control. & rent extraction. Yea tho I walk thru the valley o’ redundancy…

But cannot connect all that to the rents in the fabric of their lives. Or maybe they can. Maybe they’re right. Maybe their lives would be even holier absent all the Mafioso stuff.

Alfred1860
Alfred1860
  i forget
March 8, 2018 3:45 pm

Despite what you may think, your incoherent rambling is not indicative of intelligence or wisdom. You may be both wise and intelligent, but with the way you barf words onto the screen we’ll never know. I’m not writing you off as there does seem to be the odd nugget of perceptiveness and insight in your posts, but we’re not John Deere combines – please keep the chaff to yourself.

i forget
i forget
  Alfred1860
March 8, 2018 3:59 pm

“Despite what you may think…” Indeed. Write it off. Or don’t. Whichever has nothing to do with me, & I couldn’t care less. All you’ll ever know is what you can know. & so what? But I will say a john Deere individual’s better n’ any JD combine, or dear john, readin’ his letter, in the headlights.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Alfred1860
March 8, 2018 5:38 pm

Maybe an AI still in development with bad code still dominating its English usage routines.

i forget
i forget
  Anonymous
March 8, 2018 6:47 pm

Still in development for sure.

Can someone who, unable to comprehend, or who merely does not like to read anything he couldn’t have written himself – & prolly has written, & rewritten, over & over again (“all work & no play makes jack a dull boy…)” – & so shoots the ‘bad code’ say the same?

Maybe 12steps & a sponsor would help you? Or maybe that’s what’s got you clutched & anal retentive – 12 goosesteps (while raptly staring at your feet, & counting), repeat ∞…..

Whichever, whatever, it is, maybe the opposite’ll improve your experience. & performance. If Costanza had kept doing the opposite, he mighta’ shed his Costanzaness altogether. And if Carlin can worship Pesci, maybe you can pray to those few episodes of George. Lol….~ 29:49

Rdawg
Rdawg
  Alfred1860
March 8, 2018 10:06 pm

Alfred1860- FYI i forget does not post here to communicate with others. Rather, it posts here to amuse itself.

Grog
Grog
  Rdawg
March 9, 2018 4:06 am

bingo

insular cognitive philology

i forget
i forget
  Rdawg
March 9, 2018 2:47 pm

True. I’ve written as much, several times, before. But that’s obvious, even w\o explication.

Not that gRogdawg’s purpose is to explain my posts…or to bingo himself. Pleading the 5th (not necessarily of scotch, but there’s all kinds of hooch), or pleading special, it don’t matter… if you move, they like to say in aikido, you are defeated. But if you don’t move – assumin’ you ain’t dead – you just might already have been defeated & stayed rooted in it.

Communication with self, integrated, is, or should be ~ ideally ~ pole position. & pole position self-talk that isn’t generated from a muse, in youse, is, past training wheels beginnings, a waste of time, effort; my perspective.

Which doesn’t preclude the possibility that technical writers of SOP manuals find dry & boring amusing. Or edifying. Or something. dawg does come up with amusing bits, now & then; accidents do happen.

Comms with others as primary goal is also malinvestment; my perspective. Even tho some may find that amusing, or something, despite the fact that everything’s been said, in every possible way, over & over – & so what? But choirs got songbooks, repertoires, & that’s that.

If your default is an audience, you’re like Sally Fields, accepting that Oscar, & admitting that “you” exist only, or mainly, in the vacuum of them, the clappers out there. It’s a common wiring configuration, herds (packs in dawg’s case) making social lowing (whimpering) noises, but, obviously, it’s not the only one.

If you don’t love it, or at least like it a lot, have fun with it for its own sake, as opposed spectator approval, you’re on the beaten, wrong, track; my perspective.

Regurgitating the same stuff the same way ad nauseum, well that’s got a lot in common with grog addiction & hangovers. Or dawgs & their vomit.

Know a guy, a cook\chef, that drank-to-puke so often he needed surgery. All that regurg burned up his esophagus. He has an impressive scar. After that he stopped the grog-regurg cycle. He’s much more amused, & amusing, now. ☻

But 1 or 2 hereabouts aren’t chained to stumped, or as big a stumped, & as short a chain, as the dawg is.

Plus, he’s an engineer type; allowances for handicaps is within my compassion, even as the muricans with disabilities act isn’t.

I dislike leash laws too, but dawgies chained up in junkyards, dawgies in windows & glass houses, & itty bitty dawgies in mills, is just s.a.d, the world over.

Rigidity’s a religion, or what underlies religions, & like the poor, the chained uptight’ll always be with ye.

For dawg, that codes to being all about minimal effort. But being chained up’ll do that to many. Not all Shawshankers want redemption. In fact most don’t, & prison is Panglossian by them.

Adaptation’s fine, as far as it goes.

But adaptation + projection is a fine. Punitive. ‘The law’ some will aver. & defer. & supine before it. Syntax & grammar & parliamentary obedience, oy yea. But merely color of law, in truth. An excuse to impose trespass by another name, a false identity.

The magic o’ barbed wire whirreds. Parole boards, boarders, swear by that magic act. Took Red decades to figure it out…he didn’t even know he’d figured it out until after the fact. Counterintuitive, skiing the fall line is.

Oh say can you see what’s correct, & incorrect, & how it applies to self, & other-talk – whirreds? ::

“The saturation of American discourse with this *Godfather*–inspired vocabulary is amusing, but it is a joke only on one level. On another it reflects the incipient triumph of Don Corleone’s moral & social philosophy. In a contemplative mood toward the end of *The Godfather*, the old Don says to Michael, “I don’t apologize for the way I’ve lived my life. But I refused to be a fool, dancing on a string held by those big shots.” In these comments the Don’s whole worldview is expressed: in this corrupt, dishonorable world, you either pull the strings or play the fool. The only honorable alternative is the one that he has chosen – total independence, based on the loyal support of family & friends.

Mafiosi often claim that they merely satisfy eternal human appetites, & regard their opponents as moralistic hypocrites. As Big Paul Castellano put it to the FBI agents who conducted him to a federal courthouse,

“Hey, I know you disapprove. That’s why we’re here, after all, isn’t it? So the United States government can make the point that *we do not approve of how certain guineas make their living.* Okay. Fair enough. If I was the government I’d put my ass in jail for a 1000 years….But not because I’m *wrong.* You see, that’s the part I object to – this idea that the law is right & that’s the end of the story. Come on. We’re not children here. The law is – how should I put it? – a convenience. Or a convenience for some people & an inconvenience for other people.”

To a certain extent, we agree. It’s true that our public tradition celebrates America as a land of opportunity where all are created equal, where wealth & privilege hold no sway, & where merit is always rewarded. There is plenty of evidence for this view of America as an exceptional nation. But there is also plenty of evidence for the alternative view, namely that the system is corrupt, the game is rigged, & influence trumps merit.

In one episode of *The Sopranos*, Tony’s wife, Carmela, tries to get their daughter admitted to Brown by pulling strings. “It’s all connections now, it’s who you know,” she complains to her husband. If the rules don’t apply to everyone, why follow them? Since the game is fundamentally unfair, she thinks nothing of intervening on her daughter’s behalf, tho she is careful to do so without her knowledge lest that harm her self-esteem. To the extent that this episode reflects a pervasive attitude toward the institutions of American democracy, it can fairly be said, “We’re all goodfellas now.” It’s a short step from this kind of thinking to the radical familism of a man like Vito Corleone. We may deplore his methods, but we have to respect the old Don for facing this reality squarely & not flinching from its consequences.

The mafia makes a good starting point for a history of nepotism in human affairs. After all, it is the nepotistic organization par excellence – the ultimate family business. The mafia preys on people’s needs, exploits their weaknesses, & uses violence, intimidation, & corruption as its tools. Yet it’s amazing tenacity in the face of all our efforts to destroy it is, if nothing else, a powerful testament to its sheer efficacy as a mode of organization. Hack at its branches as we may, we seem unable to uproot it. This fact alone should make us take respectful notice of its nepotistic character – all the more so as our continuing fascination with the mafia suggests that the nepotistic values it embodies may yet have merit & legitimacy in our eyes.

*The Godfather’s* appeal for American audiences was due in part to the nostalgia of assimilated ethnics for the comforting closeness of the immigrant family & the nepotistic system that sustained it. This system was hardly an Italian invention: it is typical of all societies based on the Old Nepotism (which involved parents hiring their children outright or pulling strings on their behalf; was highly coercive – obedient daughters married according to parental wishes, dutiful sons allowed fathers to chart their careers, & often to select suitable brides for them as well ), & it was deployed in different ways by different groups as a means of adapting to American life, taking such collective forms as ethnic mutual aid societies, unions, & political machines. The core of that appeal was the dark, commanding figure of the patriarchal father – a dominating figure who will tell you what to do, establish norms for your behavior, & who is capable of harshness & brutality, yet who will also reward your obedience by giving you the whole world & everything in it.

This kind of father no longer exists in America. The authority of fathers has been weakened by a gradual campaign of disenfranchisement that began with the liberal revolutions of the 18th century & continued with a protracted political & legal assault that eventually replaced the father’s powers with those of the state. Yet now that we have effectively killed off this patriarchal father, we experience a predictable nostalgia for him. This may simply be an expression of the patricidal guilt that Sigmund Freud discerned at the heart of civilized society. But it may also signify our genuine longing for the father & the nepotistic system that produced him.

Moreover, despite the suppositions of 18th century social contract theorists, it is the mafia-style corporate family – not the isolated sovereign individual – that represents the default mode of social organization. Throughout history, men have built upon their families, drawing on their resources of loyalty & trust to advance their collective ambitions. As they rose, they linked themselves by marriage & other fictive kinship ties to other families, creating a web of family interests that in time became a conscious, institutionalized elite. The Roman aristocracy, the ancient Chinese bureaucratic class, & the mercantile & banking clans of Venice, Florence, Amsterdam, & London were all products of this pattern of family enterprise.

In Western societies, the growth of the state & the market have reduced the importance of families & liberated individuals to pursue their own personal ends. But in most other parts of the world, these familistic patterns still predominate. This is notably the case in Arab countries, most of which are ruled today by monarchs or dictators who continue to base their power on their families, clans, or tribes. But even in America, this pattern is more common than we think. American history, & Western history in general, is much involved with the rise & fall of dynastic groups that base their power on the ad hoc webs of kinship that they wove around their families. As the Roman historian Ronald Syme expressed it, “In all ages, whatever the form & name of the government, be it monarchy, republic, or democracy, an oligarchy lurks behind the façade.” This is not a conspiracy theory of history but a recognition of the neglected importance of families in public affairs.

The mafia is a deep repository of cultural history & knowledge about the actual foundations of society, & that is why it has become such a powerful symbol of the deep contradiction underlying our national creed. The remainder of this book will seek to shed fresh light on those foundations, beginning with the deeply engrained habits & impulses that induce us to favor our kin.” ~ “In Praise of Nepotism, A Natural History” by Adam Bellow (Saul’s kid)

BB
BB
March 8, 2018 2:35 pm

General , good but what if no body believes that any longer.Just saw a study on Blacks and Hispanics in which the overwhelming majority are in favor of gun control .Of course that would affect whites the most since gun Culture is white Culture.So no more 2nd amendment rights for whitey if we become a minority.They don’t believe very much in free speech either according this study.What are you going to do white man as the Browning of America is bad ,bad ,bad for us.

i forget
i forget
  BB
March 8, 2018 2:59 pm

101 per 100. If it were 1001 per 100, hands would still be wringing. No matter how parsed, guns ain’t the problem. Believers, in studies, & whatnot, are not problem solvers…they are problem lovers…who love to fill the pool with marinade & have soak parties with all like-minded (hive) pals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

i forget
i forget
March 8, 2018 3:00 pm

If ‘the bible’ button can be pushed, it will be pushed. Whatever gets the pushed moving in the desired direction.

nkit
nkit
March 8, 2018 3:35 pm

On Tuesday, more far left and Antifa arseholes tried to shut down Jordan at Queens Univ in Ontario:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/03/08/far-left-extremist-barricade-doors-jordan-peterson-speech-caught-garrote/

i forget
i forget
March 8, 2018 3:41 pm

Ya’ll know ‘bout deists. & TJ’s cut\paste bible.

A whole lotta peeps split the euro•it version of w-civ, cuz it was (& remains) so thoroughly screwed up, to seek refuge & asylum in murica. Whole lotta those same peeps were just chips off the ol’ block, tho. Came here, & immediately set about recreating what they were ostensibly bent on escaping.

People move to the desert, bring their grass seed with ‘em. Lawns. In the desert. (What else could that dwindling – but subsidized – ground & Colorado river water be for?) Bible thumped over there, becomes bible thumper over here.

Perverse. Incorrigible. Can’t teach a wo\man nuthin that ain’t already there, inside ‘em. TJ & all those deists? Forget ‘em. Just erase all those inconvenient parts of the story. This here’s a biblical-Christian nation.

Peeps chant mantra-lies, live entranced. Other peeps, DJ’s, play the trance music. All involved are perps. ‘Perps colluding in perpetuity is peep condition’ that’ll fit on a bumpercar sticker.

TJF
TJF
  i forget
March 8, 2018 3:54 pm

Who is this TJ you are referring to in your latest rambling nonsensical collection of words?

i forget
i forget
  TJF
March 8, 2018 4:14 pm

Lol…Thomas Jefferson.

Like this: “The day will come {dude was a wild-eyed optimist} when the mystical generation of jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

Montefrío
Montefrío
March 8, 2018 5:02 pm

Western culture and subsequent civilization is nearly certainly an outgrowth of the evangelizing efforts of the Catholic monks of what are called the “Dark Ages”. Barbarism gave way to Catholicism and on that basis grew the West; this is well documented.

I’m not a Christian of any sort, but rather a Zen “adept” for some fifty years now, but nevertheless strongly defend Christianity (Catholicism in its now-nearly-ancient form) as the indispensable basis for the preservation of the West as we born within it know it. Its subversion and now abandonment will spell the doom of it if action isn’t taken soon. Its enemies are winning the battle, but dithering about it won’t change the inevitable outcome if it continues for much longer, or so think I.

BB
BB
March 8, 2018 6:21 pm

Mongols ,you are right but let us not forget that America was founded by White Anglo-Saxons Protestants .It was the Protestantism and the Protestant Reformation that shaped America in the early years.The founding fathers were trying to escape the church of England so they could worship as they saw fit.
One more thing ,Zen is more of a philosophy than religion at least the way I understand it. Remember ,if you continue to reject Christ you will die in your sins which means there will be no sacrifice for your SIN .Read Romans 8:1-4.

Montefrío
Montefrío
  BB
March 9, 2018 8:13 am

You’re correct on both counts: Zen is a philosophy and a practice, not a religion; the USA was indeed founded by WASPs and Protestantism shaped its culture and civilization and to a certain extent still does, but were it not for old Catholicism, there’d be no Protestantism, just as without Judaism there’d have been no Catholic Church.

Zen is a philosophy which doesn’t posit an immortal soul. The concept of “karma” is a behavioral code in Buddhism per se, but not so much in Zen. I’m just not a believer in the reward-and-punishment doctrine; I like to believe I behave as I do simply because I believe in ethics, morals and honor, not because I fear after-death consequences, but that’s just me and for all I know you’re right.

MrLiberty
MrLiberty
March 9, 2018 11:50 am

“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

The MOST IGNORED thing Jesus is reported to have said (when one looks at western “civilization.”)

And you can’t have government without violating the 8th Commandment and to a large extent, the 10th.