Caging Children, Separating Families: Has the War on Immigration Gone Too Far?

Guest Post by John W. Whitehead

“Never has our future been more unpredictable, never have we depended so much on political forces that cannot be trusted to follow the rules of common sense and self-interest—forces that look like sheer insanity, if judged by the standards of other centuries.” ― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism

Sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand.

This is one of those moments.

There are some acts so wrong-headed, so immoral, and so inhumane that they simply cannot be defended on any grounds.

Be warned: the White House’s new “zero tolerance policy” for separating undocumented parents from their children at the border as a way of discouraging illegal immigration is pushing us into dangerous territory morally and otherwise.

-----------------------------------------------------
It is my sincere desire to provide readers of this site with the best unbiased information available, and a forum where it can be discussed openly, as our Founders intended. But it is not easy nor inexpensive to do so, especially when those who wish to prevent us from making the truth known, attack us without mercy on all fronts on a daily basis. So each time you visit the site, I would ask that you consider the value that you receive and have received from The Burning Platform and the community of which you are a vital part. I can't do it all alone, and I need your help and support to keep it alive. Please consider contributing an amount commensurate to the value that you receive from this site and community, or even by becoming a sustaining supporter through periodic contributions. [Burning Platform LLC - PO Box 1520 Kulpsville, PA 19443] or Paypal

-----------------------------------------------------
To donate via Stripe, click here.
-----------------------------------------------------
Use promo code ILMF2, and save up to 66% on all MyPillow purchases. (The Burning Platform benefits when you use this promo code.)

Dragging young children kicking and crying and screaming from their parents, separating those children from their parents indefinitely, locking those children up in cages (“dog kennels”) like animals, and subjecting them to the predators of the American police state: these are acts that no decent people should tolerate from their government.

In McAllen, Texas, undocumented migrant children are being held in cages made out of wire and net. These children are sleeping on concrete floors with thin foil “space blankets” for a mattress.

In Brownsville, Texas, reportedly more than 1,000 children who have been separated from their parents are being held in a former Walmart facility with blacked-out windows that has been transformed into a detention center and is being run by a government contractor.

Rep. Pramila Jayapal got a chance to speak briefly with some of the migrant women being held at a federal detention facility near Seattle who had been forcibly separated from their children. Jayapal recounts:

Thirty to 40 percent of these women came with children who had been forcibly taken away from them. None got a chance to say goodbye to their children—they were forcibly taken away. One said she was deceived, because they were in detention together. Then the CBP officers told her she was going out to get her photograph taken. When she came back, she was put in a different room, and she never got to see the child again. Some of them said they could hear their children screaming for them in the next room. The children ranged anywhere from one to teenagers.

Bear in mind, there is no bedtime story for these children.

There are no parents nearby to protect them from the things that go bump in the night.

There is no assurance that they will ever be reunited with their parents again.

You who are reading this, hold tight to your own children. They won’t be yours for long if the government is allowed to prevail in its view that children of undocumented “criminals” automatically become wards of the state.

The government’s rationale goes like this: illegal immigrants are criminals who should be jailed; criminals in jail don’t get to keep their kids; therefore, illegal immigrants shouldn’t get to keep their kids, either.

Wait and see.

Allow the government to inflict this kind of terror on other people’s children, and it won’t be long before you and yours find yourselves in the government’s crosshairs.

Allow the government to strip naturalized persons of their citizenship under trumped up pretexts (yet another tactic being proposed by the White House), and it won’t be long before your own citizenship hangs in the balance.

Allow the government to treat whomever it pleases with disrespect and an utter disregard for the rule of law, and it won’t be long before your rights are also being disrespected.

Whether you’re talking about weapons of war used abroad or police state tactics deployed against enemy combatants, these methods always come home to roost.

So if you’re inclined to advance this double standard because you believe you have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, beware: there’s always a boomerang effect.

Whatever dangerous practices you allow the government to carry out now—whether it’s in the name of national security or protecting America’s borders or making America great again—rest assured, these same practices can and will be used against you when the government decides to set its sights on you.

Indeed, it’s just a short hop, skip and a jump from the government stripping undocumented “criminals” of their parental rights to the government meting out the same treatment to American citizens.

After all, in this era of overcriminalization in the American police state, we are all guilty of breaking at least three laws a day without even knowing it.

We are all at risk.

With good reason, the policy of caging children has been widely denounced, with the United Nations human rights office calling for the U.S. to immediately halt the practice.

All along the border, parents without proof of U.S. residency and/or citizenship are finding their families snatched up and shoved into an already overburdened system that sees them not as human beings but as numbers in a system, quotas and units.

Between October 2017 and April 2018, more than 700 hundred families were torn apart with parents being separated from their children. This includes more than a hundred children under the age of four.

Nearly 700 children were separated from their parents between May 6-19, 2018.

There are now over 10,000 migrant children in government custody in 100 U.S. shelters in 14 states.

All 10,000 of these children have been forcibly separated from their parents.

These 100 shelters are already “at 95% capacity and are expected to add thousands of bed spaces in the coming weeks.” The government has also considered housing these children on military bases.

Historically, the U.S. has granted asylum to victims of domestic abuse and gang violence, especially women with children.

That clemency is being upended by a hard-line approach to immigration that treats anyone who approaches our borders for sanctuary—whether or not they have a legitimate case to plead—as criminals.

Just recently, in a severe break with U.S. policy, Attorney General Jeff Sessions ordered immigration judges to stop granting asylum to most victims of domestic abuse and gang violence, a move that will block tens of thousands of individuals from looking to America as a safe haven.

So much for the words of welcome etched at the base of the Statue of Liberty.

Clearly, the American Police State is no home for the “huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

Worse, it is fast becoming a living nightmare for those who hoped for a chance at a better life for their children and instead now find themselves at the mercy of government bureaucrats, politicians and contractors whose profit margins depend on keeping larger numbers of people incarcerated.

Thanks to the Trump Administration’s “100% prosecution” policy, these families are being torn apart without any chance at a due process hearing to assess their plea for asylum or any hope of keeping their children in their custody and under their protection.

In fact, the government is labeling any child who arrives at the border with an undocumented family member as “unaccompanied.”

What this means is that, for all intents and purposes, that child will become the property of the U.S. government to do with as it wills the moment its family crosses the border.

We all know what happens to children who are left alone to fend for themselves: there are predators of every sort, many of them on the government’s payroll, looking to prey upon the young and vulnerable.

In too many cases, these children are being trafficked, lost by the system, and rendered beyond the reach of their families. As the New Yorker recounts, “Reports have surfaced of children, some as young as toddlers, being wrested from family members, and of parents being deported before they could locate their children, who remain stranded in the U.S.”

To Jeff Sessions, the government’s policy is cut and dried: “If people don’t want to be separated from their children, they should not bring them with them,” he warned. “If you don’t want your child to be separated, then don’t bring him across the border illegally.”

It’s easy to say, perhaps.

For those with a moral conscience and a less self-righteous attitude, it’s harder to put such a dehumanizing policy into practice.

It’s particularly hard to swallow the government’s claim that it is doing all of this in the best interest of the migrant children. Remember, this is the same government that “lost” 1,475 migrant children within its care over a three-month period, in some cases handing them off to human traffickers.

Under President Obama’s watch, migrant children were allegedly beaten, threatened with sexual violence and repeatedly assaulted while under the care of Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officials. According to Newsweek, “Border authorities were accused of kicking a child in the ribs and forcing a 16-year-old girl to ‘spread her legs’ for an aggressive body search. Other children accused officers of punching a child in the head three times, running over a 17-year-old boy and denying medical care to a pregnant teen, who later had a stillbirth.”

The government’s track record doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in its ability to act in loco parentis for these children.

While illegal immigration is a problem that must be addressed, forcibly separating migrant children from their parents, transferring custody of them to the U.S. government, and caging them indefinitely in dog kennels cannot be the solution.

The law of reciprocity applies here.

I’m referring to the Golden Rule, which is found in nearly every world religion, including Judaism and Christianity. It means that we should treat others as we would have them treat us.

In other words, if you don’t want to be locked up in a prison cell or a detention camp—if you don’t want to be discriminated against because of the color of your race, religion, politics or anything else that sets you apart from the rest—if you don’t want your loved ones shot at, strip searched, tasered, beaten and treated like slaves—if you don’t want to have to be constantly on guard against government eyes watching what you do, where you go and what you say—if you don’t want to be tortured, waterboarded or forced to perform degrading acts—if you don’t want your children to be forcibly separated from you, caged and lost—then don’t allow these evils to be inflicted on anyone else, no matter how tempting the reason or how fervently you believe in the cause.

Too often, those who claim to be pro-life and pro-family are only pro-life and pro-family when it suits their politics and when the lives and families in question are deemed worthy enough of protecting.

Certainly, such an attitude flies in the face of the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, whose parents—immigrants seeking asylum with a child in tow—risked their lives to keep their family together. That child would grow up to command his followers to care for the “least of these” (the hungry, thirsty, homeless, naked, sick, and imprisoned).

Christian theology aside, you don’t have to be religious to recognize the need for caution, compassion and common sense in how the government administers its immigration policies.

Those who cannot remember the past, warned philosopher George Santayana, are condemned to repeat it.

We are walking a dangerous path right now.

Those screams of the migrant children being wrenched out of their mothers’ arms is a warning.

As U.S. Rep. Pramila Jayapal explains, the mothers being held in detention centers didn’t realize what was happening when they were torn from their children. “In most cases, they were taken into a different room like, ‘Here we’re going take your photograph.’ Then after the photo was taken, they were taken to a different room from their child. So they never got to say goodbye.”

There have been other mothers in other detention centers in other police states who didn’t realize what was happening until it was too late. They, too, never got to say goodbye.

Eva Kor was 10 years old in 1944 when she and her twin sister were ripped from their mother’s arms and forcibly separated from their older sisters and parents, who were sent to the gas chambers at Auschwitz. “All I remember is her arms stretched out in despair as she was pulled away. I never even got to say goodbye,” Kor recounted.

This is how evil triumphs.

The slippery slope to the gas chambers starts when good people remain silent in the face of evil.

The horrors of the Nazi concentration camps weren’t kept secret from the German people. They were well-publicized. As The Guardian reports:

The mass of ordinary Germans did know about the evolving terror of Hitler’s Holocaust… They knew concentration camps were full of Jewish people who were stigmatised as sub-human and race-defilers. They knew that these, like other groups and minorities, were being killed out of hand. They knew that Adolf Hitler had repeatedly forecast the extermination of every Jew on German soil. They knew these details because they had read about them. They knew because the camps and the measures which led up to them had been prominently and proudly reported step by step in thousands of officially-inspired German media articles and posters… The reports, in newspapers and magazines all over the country were phases in a public process of “desensitisation” which worked all too well, culminating in the killing of 6m Jews….

Likewise, the mass of ordinary Americans are fully aware of the Trump Administration’s efforts to stigmatize and dehumanize any and all who do not fit with the government’s plans for this country.

So when Sessions suggests that the government’s child separation policy is just the government doing its job to fight illegal immigration, don’t buy it.

This is not about illegal immigration.

It’s about power and control.

It’s about testing the waters to see how far the American people will allow the government to go in re-shaping the country in the image of a totalitarian police state.

It’s about how much evil “we the people” will tolerate before we find our conscience and our voice.

Hannah Arendt, a Holocaust survivor who reported on the war crimes trial of Nazi Adolf Eichmann, a senior officer who organized Hitler’s death camps, denounced Eichmann not because he was evil per se but because he was a bureaucrat who unquestioningly carried out orders that were immoral, inhumane and evil. His defense? He was just doing his job.

This willingness to obey immoral instructions unthinkingly, to march in lockstep with tyrants, to mindlessly perpetuate acts of terror and inhumanity, and to justify it all as just “doing one’s job,” Arendt concluded in her book Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil, was the banality of evil.

The question we should be asking is not whether a particular government’s actions are legal but whether they are moral and just.

As Martin Luther King Jr. pointed out 55 years ago in his “Letter from a Birmingham Jail,” “everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was ‘legal’ and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was ‘illegal.’ It was ‘illegal’ to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler’s Germany.”

In other words, there comes a time when law and order are in direct opposition to justice.

It’s time to draw that line in the sand.

What we are experiencing right now are the first stages of a desensitization campaign aimed at lulling us into a false sense of security.

As I make clear in my book Battlefield America: The War on the American People, there is worse to come.

The treatment being meted out to undocumented migrants and their children is only the beginning.

This is the start of the slippery slope.

Martin Niemöller understood this. A Lutheran minister and early Nazi supporter who was later imprisoned for opposing Hitler’s regime, Niemoller warned:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Click to visit the TBP Store for Great TBP Merchandise
Subscribe
Notify of
guest
88 Comments
Dutchman
Dutchman
June 12, 2018 4:12 pm

Why in the fuck do they come here? Why don’t they stay in Mexico? Why don’t they go to some other South American country?

The answer is they want a free ride. Steal what we have. Get SNAP / Medicaid / Housing / have more anchor babies. These people are a PITA. It’s all of their own doing.

They deserve whatever they get. Then deport them.

Whitehead is internet drivel. He feels compelled to write something. Empty logic.

Stucky
Stucky
  Dutchman
June 12, 2018 5:17 pm

Separating children under 18 from their parents (if the only “sin” the parent committed is illegal immigration) is heartless and cruel … especially in those circumstance where a child never sees his or her parents again. Yeah, real nice thing to do to a six year old. Fuck ’em right?

I suppose justice demands such harsh actions. Well, fuck justice. None of us wants justice! When you plead a speeding ticket in court, do you as a lawbreaker want justice? No! You want mercy!!

But. Those goddamned wetbacks? Fuck ’em all!!! Send ’em back. Send the kid to a fucked up foster home! We don’t give a shit. It’s what they DESERVE. /end sarc

You missed the whole point of the article. That when we sink so low as to applaud The State for destroying families that we are in danger of losing our own humanity. And silently giving the State permission of doing even likewise, or worse, to us … eventually.

Then again, you’re a smart guy. All that computer knowledge and shit. Your million dollar home on the lake and your new cars. You have shit you need to protect from those fuckers who will steal you blind if given a chance. So, perhaps I can see your point. Even if you are a cruel SOB with zero compassion and even less empathy.

Heartless Cocksucker
Heartless Cocksucker
  Stucky
June 12, 2018 5:45 pm

What about all the U.S. kids who got their life wrecked because daddy lost his living-wage job to a beaner who would do it for one-third the wage? Does Mexico let the Bangladeshi’s take their own citizen’s jobs because they will work for one-third the going rate? When you “help” people to the point of detriment to your own children, who are your first responsibility, you are simply a fool. And your children will eventually recognize that fact and despise you in the end.

– Vodka

starfcker
starfcker
  Heartless Cocksucker
June 12, 2018 7:33 pm

I’m with you, heartless cocksucker (vodka). Except for the cocksucking part.

Llpoh
Llpoh
  Stucky
June 12, 2018 6:02 pm

Stuck – the parents are responsible, and no one else. The parents committed a crime, and are trying to hide behind the kids. They can stop coming if they want to keep their families intact. Kids get taken from families all the time, for less reason than this.

It is a damn invasion, and it must stop. The blame is with the parents.

starfcker
starfcker
  Stucky
June 12, 2018 7:31 pm

I agree with Stuckey. We should pay for these families to get condos on the beach. ( oh wait, that’s what we’ve been doing) Seriously. Every once in awhile I’ve got to go look for one of my stray animals at the pound. Prison cell after prison cell of dogs and cats, some of them hours away from being snuffed. It’s heartbreaking. But I can’t save them all. I’ve been in several third world countries. They are horrible places if you care about human beings. But we can’t save them all. And to destroy our own civilization in a feeble attempt is not a great idea. No American, if they commit any sort of criminal offense, does not get separated from their children. it’s part of being locked up.

YourAverageJoe
YourAverageJoe
  Stucky
June 12, 2018 9:39 pm

The parents try to break into our country fully knowing they are breaking and disrespecting our laws. When they finally face the gut wrenching reality that WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH of being the world’s piggy bank, they will think twice before subjecting their children to this hard action.
The only thing I find worse than these leeches breaking into this country are those that defend these leeches!

Figaro
Figaro
  Stucky
June 12, 2018 10:41 pm

If the children of illegals were NOT separated from their parents they’d have to be
held in the same detention centers with other adults, some of whom are murderers, rapists, pedophiles, sex traffickers, ruthless gang members, drug dealers, etc. You think that’s the proper atmosphere in which to keep children? Keeping those children in their own centers, even if it means separating them from their parents, is the only way to insure their safety and well being,
the safety and well being their parents were willing to sacrifice by involving them in the crime
of illegal entry into the U.S.

Ozum
Ozum
  Stucky
June 13, 2018 12:44 am

Send the article to mexico and all countries south. Then the emigrants will stop coming here.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
  Stucky
June 13, 2018 9:48 am

Dumb..It’s the scumbag parents who separated the family by invading a foreign country.

Door. Ass. Bang
Door. Ass. Bang
  Stucky
June 16, 2018 6:42 am

You should immediately be totally responsible for 100 of your beloved “poor migrant children”.

You will be required to provide housing for them in your home. You will be required to be 100% responsible for feeding, clothing and providing all the amenities for them — internet, liquor, drugs, cell phones, vehicles, cable TV. Whatever they want you will be required to buy it for them out of your own money. You will also be responsible for paying for their all their medical and education expenses. You will be required to send them to private schools, no tax payer funded ones.

Most importantly you will be 100% responsible for their behaviour and will be required to make restitution AND serve the same sentence as your beloved poor migrant child has to. If your beloved poor migrant child kills someone you WILL be executed.

starfcker
starfcker
  Dutchman
June 12, 2018 10:19 pm

“Historically, the U.S. has granted asylum to victims of domestic abuse and gang violence, especially women with children.” A complete lie. That’s an Obama policy

Dutchman
Dutchman
  starfcker
June 13, 2018 7:59 am

Gang violence / domestic abuse – sounds like Chicago / Baltimore / Philly / LA / Compton.

Sam Fox
Sam Fox
  Dutchman
June 16, 2018 6:38 pm

To all those who hide behind the ’empathy’ of emotions & feelings:

How about some empathy for US citizen children who will be displaced in the workforce when THEY are looking for work after finishing school? How about some empathy for the US taxpayer who is forced to subsidize illegal immigrants?

Don’t forget: The Statue of Liberty & her message are at the FRONT DOOR!! No such statue on our North & South borders.

You may be sincere in your empathy, maybe even really mean it. How about taking a step back & ask yourself what OTHER country in the world has done as much for legal & even illegals. Then remember WHO HAS TO PAY THE BILL!!

US citizens have more taxes to pay & fewer jobs to find, but HEY! we must have empathy for lawbreakers!

The Dimms love illegals & want them to pour in, at least until the dammdable Dimms have a big enough voting block to ensure they cannot be voted back out if they ever get back in. If the Dimms can get the WH & Congress, at some point they will vote US into a North American Union, Amero for $$ & the whole US as we know it will be gone forever.

The illegals are NOT loved by the Dimm ‘progressives’ except for what the D’s want to use them as pawns for: the destruction of the USA. Ever read Strategy by Cloward & Piven or Rules For Radicals by Saul Alinsky? Ever wonder what the ‘Federal’ Reserve is for & how we got it sneaked into the USA by the Dimms in 1913? The book Creature From Jekyll Island will fill ya in.

If you illegal immigration supporters are truly sincere, then that means you have been played, BIG TIME!! Look up Rules For Radicals #4. Otherwise you are working for one or another of Soros’ outfits &/or the Dimm left ‘progressives’ as a TRATOR of the USA.

I noticed that no pictures of kids in cages have been posted from the Trump administration, just OblameUS’.

Lotta propaganda going on & disinformation being posted. We cannot go on ’empathy’ & emotional feelings for the illegal pawns of the NWO. That stuff will get US taken over & down.

SamFox

Anonymous
Anonymous
June 12, 2018 4:18 pm

I didn’t read this novel (time constraints).

However, I have enclosed a you-tube link which reveals the initial ‘children in cages’ photo was under Obama.
D. Feinstein admitting she didn’t follow the immigration issue under Obama (of course not – she didn’t want to bash her Party leader; but as soon as a Rep is President, now her knowledge skyrockets).

Steve
Steve
June 12, 2018 4:36 pm

Yeah, gas chambers and 6 million jews, blah, blah,blah.
Yawn.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
June 12, 2018 4:36 pm

If you don’t cage them, they’re just going to run around.

Dutchman
Dutchman
  Iska Waran
June 12, 2018 4:48 pm

Daddy, daddy, I’m tired of walking around in circles. Just shut up or I’ll nail your other foot to the floor.

Cricket
Cricket
June 12, 2018 4:38 pm

Perhaps these people will think twice about illegally entering the country with their kids in tow, if they know up front they will be arrested and locked up as well as separated from their children. It is the parents’ fault that their children must be housed in less than ideal conditions. If they just stayed in their home country, they wouldn’t have broken US law by entering illegally and the US government wouldn’t be separating them or forced to find a place to house their children.

If this is such a human rights crisis, why aren’t the home countries for these illegals standing up and demanding the US return their citizens? I suspect it’s likely because they don’t want them back.

Stucky
Stucky
  Cricket
June 12, 2018 5:20 pm

Heartless cocksucker.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Stucky
June 12, 2018 5:29 pm

Send them all back

YourAverageJoe
YourAverageJoe
  Stucky
June 12, 2018 9:41 pm

Progressive shithead

miforest
miforest
  Stucky
June 13, 2018 8:25 am

the mainstream media has led you to foolishness. Sentimentality detached from any real understanding of the issues. I’m sure the virtue signaling makes you feel good , but its really only mental masturbation.

VRWCTroll
VRWCTroll
  Cricket
June 13, 2018 1:11 am

Hey Cricket, that is the best response to this crisis than I have seen from anyone else.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
June 12, 2018 4:41 pm

What a load of total BS–we separate parents from children all the time when we send the parents to prison…In this case, the kids are probably getting better care than they got in Mexico from their criminal parents…Go away Whitecuck…

Stucky
Stucky
  pyrrhus
June 12, 2018 5:18 pm

Heartless cocksucker.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Stucky
June 12, 2018 5:30 pm

send them all back

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Stucky
June 13, 2018 8:00 am

1488

nkit
nkit
June 12, 2018 4:47 pm

We, as American citizens, are frequently separated from our children, and thrown in jail, when we break this country’s laws. Why should illegal aliens be allowed to break our laws with impunity? Cross Mexico’s borders with your children and see if they don’t separate you, and that right soon.

Bottom line, this identical action was never questioned under Obama, but under Trump it is the greatest of intolerable sins.

Keep the families together by deporting them all to their native countries. (PBUT)

Stucky
Stucky
  nkit
June 12, 2018 5:21 pm

Heartless cocksucker.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Stucky
June 12, 2018 5:30 pm

send them all back

nkit
nkit
  Stucky
June 12, 2018 10:52 pm

Stucky is a dick…

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  nkit
June 13, 2018 4:02 pm

Not fair. Everyone knows Stucky is a dick, and a heartless cocksucker. Stucky knows that he is a dick and a heartless cocksucker. He is just trolling you to get the view count up.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
June 12, 2018 4:57 pm

Canada sends its immigration officials to Miami to warn Haitians against trying to enter Canada illegally. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/06/08/canada-warns-immigrants-u-s-heading-north-border/683297002/ “…if you cross the border illegally, you will be breaking the law. You will be apprehended. And after that, you will be in detention.”

Apparently they don’t want people from shithole countries. Back when Hong Kong reverted to control of Red China in 1997, Canada would let anyone immigrate to Canada from Hong Kong if they had $1/2 million. (I don’t recall whether that was in Canadian dollars or real money.)

Nobody ever bitches about Canada’s immigration policies – or Australia’s. Shit, Australia’s a giant continent of empty. Why aren’t they obligated to take in anyone who floats in on a raft? As far as putting the kids in cages – 1) I’m sure they’re reasonably comfortable cages and B) what the hell else are we supposed to do when we’re arresting the parents for serial encroachments on our border?

Fuck this guy Whitehead.

Stucky
Stucky
  Iska Waran
June 12, 2018 5:19 pm

Heartless cocksucker.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Stucky
June 12, 2018 5:31 pm

send them all back

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  Stucky
June 12, 2018 9:12 pm

Stucky, you say that like it’s a bad thing.

monger
monger
June 12, 2018 4:58 pm

Not unexpected ? Us gov is evil af, get a clue… if you didn’t get the memo during the Obama years, they are the enemy of the whole human race, it took me 50 years to realize it. As for Trump or any others trying to save once what a great nation, too late, the problems run to deep now, all the way to the foundations.
——————————-

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/10/soldier-killed-in-somalia-idd-as-8-year-army-veteran-from-arizona.html
——————————————

https://www.americanexperiment.org/2018/05/is-this-the-worst-scandal-minnesota-history/

You have already posted the above story ofc.
—————————
we send or people to die in Somalia, and send somalians to the US to become rich and take money back to Somalia….

burn it down…

TampaRed
TampaRed
June 12, 2018 5:29 pm

whitehead is becoming like denninger,they both often have something to say but are so strident & unrealistic that they turn people off–
he would also have more credibility talking about kids being separated from parents if he wrote more about the way states are allowed to take your kids for the slightest provocation–
further,i would bet that the kids are or were being put into cages for their own protection–
as far as police brutality goes,the vast majority of american cops are restrained,proportional and honest in comparison to the cops in mexico,guatemala ,honduras and the other countries that these people come from–very few of these kids are beaten or abused–

Peaceable Citizen
Peaceable Citizen
June 12, 2018 5:47 pm

Like all questions in an article headline, the answer is no.

Q: Has the War on Immigration Gone Too Far?
A: No.

Llpoh
Llpoh
June 12, 2018 6:06 pm

Yo, once again you are fucking up a thread. What the fuck is wrong with you? You seriously need to get help. You are mentally ill, and need to speak to a professional. This is unhealthy behavior.

John Whitehead
John Whitehead
June 12, 2018 6:54 pm

Cry me a river for these kids. Their parents are criminal invaders. They put them in danger by crossing the border. Poor kids, their parents are criminals. If their criminal parents just stayed where they belonged they wouldn’t be locked up. Too bad. Bad things happen when you break the law. To avoid those things, don’t break the law.

Coalclinker
Coalclinker
  John Whitehead
June 12, 2018 7:28 pm

I have a solution for all of these problems. If Israel uses this solution to prevent illegal infiltration, then why can’t we? All of those Dual citizenship Democrat Jew Congressmen probably voted to send them our fucking money to pay for it:
[imgcomment image[/img]

Grimbold
Grimbold
  Coalclinker
June 13, 2018 12:56 am

Actually Israel doesn’t use these on the borders, but I agree it is a good Idea for the US. Also, detention centers in tent cities in the middle of nowhere, where illigal families with kids get a tent for themselves. Costs almost nothing and works well in Israel.

TampaRed
TampaRed
June 12, 2018 7:37 pm

moveon.org,being the slime balls that they are,is trying to fund raise off of this–
senator jeff merkley,antiamerican from wherever,went to the border & is now decrying this horrible situation–
as i was reading all about how these people are fleeing political violence & drug gangs(none are coming here to work) i had a thought-if their govts. are really controlled by gangs & violent politicians that are causing refugees to flow across our border,wouldn’t it be legitimate for us to send troops to their home countries to “fix” their countries so that they don’t disrupt our country?

Dave.
Dave.
June 12, 2018 9:01 pm

Don’t want to be separated for your kids. Don’t fucking come here illegally.

james the deplorable wanderer
james the deplorable wanderer
June 12, 2018 9:18 pm

Sort of. Whitehead, your heart bleeds for all these illegal immigrants who are losing their children. But Americans lose their kids too – to the always-damned Depts of Child Services, who decide who is a good parent – and those who aren’t, lose their kids to the State for undefined periods. How long before the DCS decides conservative parents are unfit, and steal their children to re-educate them into a better understanding? Remember Elian Gonzales?
THIS is also what the 2nd Amendment is for: to curb over-reaches of a coercive government. Stealing children, whether illegal or not, should be met by armed resistance from everyone in earshot. YOUR views, mindset or politics give you NO authority over MY children – it’s as simple as that.

Smk
Smk
June 12, 2018 11:19 pm

I agree with the article’s premise that this current situation is excessive. However, the author’s warning that if we allow things to continue we’ll be the next targets has the causation backward: The police state has been coming after its own citizens in like manner for years. This latest immigration crackdown is only symptom, consequence, incident of what has already been true for years for millions of US families.

Martel's Hammer
Martel's Hammer
June 13, 2018 12:41 am

We separate US kids from their parents all the time…..we have millions of “parents” in jails, prisons, and penitentiary’s in all 50 States. Should we stop looking up hood rats who happen to have a child? Didn’t think so.

The obvious answer is minefields and motion activated machine guns mounted on towers. Kill them all, together…..

We simply have no room for low IQ immigrants from third world shitholes who become government dependents, while working for cash and consistently voting for more Government! USA is half dead already from these parasites.

Anonymous
Anonymous
June 13, 2018 12:58 am

The Matrix

Let’s settle this problem before we take on the illegal’s rights to enter here uninvited. Until then, keep them out and send them back.

Platoplubius
Platoplubius
June 13, 2018 3:49 am

What has happened to TBP?
It seems to be overrun with a bunch of ign’ant psuedo intellectual riff raff who are either paid gov’t shills, bots or some really UGLY (on the inside where it counts) homo sapiens, if one could even call their comments as such.

Of course, the entitlement and thus narcissism ever present in the American Exceptionalism that seeps through their keyboards, Wait, what am I talking about, these incompetent yet delusional grandiose mutha fuckers probably speak to Google and have Google transcribe their impulsive and inhumane affronts to their fellow brothers and sisters….
These posters show no concern for others lives,
They mistake their fortune of being born in North America as a reason to elevate themselves above another who was born somewhere else, under probably much harsher life conditions.
It’s all good though.
Enjoy your time.

Dutchman
Dutchman
  Platoplubius
June 13, 2018 8:16 am

They mistake their fortune of being born in North America as a reason to elevate themselves above another who was born somewhere else, under probably much harsher life conditions.

As usual you are trying to twist the narrative. None of us are saying we are ‘better’ that some Mexican / Latin American – and you know it – it’s one of the ways you lie.

For all the problems the US has (corruption / entitlements / etc. ) we have strived to have a higher level of laws / civility / education / productivity. WE have done that – it’s not by magic – we have worked hard to build this society and infrastructure. Generations of Americans have built this country over time.

Now some ‘self centered’ arrogant beaner decides he / she / their family deserves to come here and enjoy all that we have built – that’s called theft. These are not morally honest people. Compound that they are uneducated, and can’t speak the language. They come here, create fucked up situations by being illegal, cause us to pass laws, cause us misery. I can’t think of one positive aspect about these people. They don’t fit in our society.

The people from all the turd world countries need to do the same work, so their country can be better for their children and grandchildren.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Dutchman
June 13, 2018 5:41 pm

Dutchman reminds me of another charismatic leader:

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
June 13, 2018 7:02 am

I have come to dislike this author very much in the time he has had his work re-posted here. He’s manipulative, but not in a good way. He is deceptive and deliberately conflates dissimilar ideas whenever it suits his position. If that’s how you make a point, then your premise suffers as well.

It’s the NASA paradox.

If you lie often enough and are unrepentant when called on it, then anything you may have done or said in all sincerity is rightfully called into question. I simply do not accept any position he has to offer because he never acts in good faith. Hectoring someone into submission is a bad strategy when dealing with those on the right hand side of the Bell Curve.

Emma Lazarus’ poem on the base of the Statue of Liberty is a trope that has been used to deliberately alter the fabric of our Nation against assurances that no such thing would ever happen. Now, if we do not bend down and fully submit to being completely displaced and disenfranchised in the Nation our ancestors bled and died for, we are the equivalent of Nazis.

And once more the age old question that begs to be asked- if we are so evil why is every biped with a cell phone and a backpack inbound to our location?

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
  hardscrabble farmer
June 13, 2018 10:00 am

I would replace “trope” with “tripe”…(((Lazarus))), a Londoner, telling Americans to take in wretched refuse…..Pass!

Anonymous
Anonymous
  hardscrabble farmer
June 13, 2018 11:00 am

“He’s manipulative, but not in a good way. He is deceptive and deliberately conflates dissimilar ideas whenever it suits his position. ”

I have the same impression of Buchanan and Coulter. Those traits must be the mark of a good columnist.

And let me add, for no points at all, Admin is a straightforward writer – you never get the impression he’s blowing smoke up your hooter. So I guess we have been trained up to recognize BS.
EC

Platoplubius
Platoplubius
  hardscrabble farmer
June 13, 2018 2:59 pm

It has nothing to do with you personally, unless of course you make it personal by internalizing and identifying with some of the group think you’ve consumed in your lifetime.
I am a proud American for some reasons and very much ashamed for other reasons… with the “economic hitmen” and jackals running around the supposed “turd world ” undermining the fledgling governments and buying off the important countrymen of these “developing nations” to steal that regions natural resources for Big Business and Banks and develop spheres of influence and puppet regimes…the Bretton Woods agreement, Petro dollar system has given our currency , reserve status, and most influence and hegemony in the world since WWII, so of course others living next door to us whose economies have been controlled and manipulated by what I mentioned above or General Smedley Butler mentioned in War is a Racket, are willing to sneak into our country for a better life…and yes we could enforce humane immigration policies and treat our neighbors with some human dignity otherwise we shouldn’t expect any in our near future when things really start to break down and the proverbial shit really hits the fan….but don’t worry, this is meaningless hypberole (sarc)

I know a Mexican kid, hard worker like you WASPs with your protestant work ethic who moved here from Mexico and left his mom and dad in Mexico, who lived here and went to PUBLIC school, worked several jobs and was homeless for awhile! Now he has graduated high school,
Isn’t this what some of our ancestors did to get here… and…once they got here?
I have the utmost respect for this young man in USING EMPATHY and asking myself the question, “Could I leave my family and move to another country and try and make it on my own?”
It is amazing using empathy…
I know I know, many of the younger GEN xers who have been programed by all the zombie flicks and walking dead episodes Will tell ya that empathy is useless and will get you killed…
Blah blah blah yackity smackity!

Platoplubius
Platoplubius
  hardscrabble farmer
June 13, 2018 3:43 pm

Didn’t that grandma get arrested for transporting her grandkids in a cage, but it’s acceptable for the corportacracy to do it to the kids of immigrants who didn’t follow the rules for whatever reason and are living here now…

Rule of Law…HA! Selective enforcement of arbitrary rules is not JUSTICE.
Always starts with the immigrants and criminals, then moves it’s way to the disabled, elderly and poor, then the rest of the prols and petty bougoise…
Those still plugged into the Matrix remaining will be used as agents of the Matrix whether willing or not will be irrelevant and moot by then.

Stucky
Stucky
June 13, 2018 12:14 pm

Why do I get so many thumbs down for calling you HEARTLESS COCKSUCKERS? Especially since, you know, it is literally true? And, since it IS true, why don’t you heartless cocksuckers embrace the truth?

I only got one thumbs up … and that was me voting for myself. What?? I don’t even get a thumbs up … or any support … from my Beaner Pal, El Coyote??? I am an old man with no country.

OK, let’s get serious now. Let’s start with a definition of ’empathy’;

Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within their frame of reference.

Can you get serious for a moment? Have ANY of you expressed one iota of empathy for the plight of kids, who at no fault of their OWN, are separated from their parents by The State? No, no, a thousand times no! You all, without exception, look at this situation only from your own perspective. That, by definition, is what lacking in empathy means.

And, so, without empathy it is possible for all of you, without exception, to call upon JUSTICE (!!!), rather than Mercy. Which is strange because not one of you refuted my earlier point that none of you want justice in your own lives when you do wrong … you want mercy and forgiveness. Jesus would call you hypocrites. All of you who loathe the excessive evil powers of The State (when it affects you) suddenly are “all in” for the very power you loathe. Selective reasoning, bi-polar, … whatever you call it … it ought to be called what it really is; contemptuous.

All of you would agree that the family is the very backbone of society. Destroy the family unit, and you can kiss that society goodbye. Amazingly, just about all of you are able to categorize families into at least two groups; mine and theirs. Break up your family — hey, we’re legal — and that’s baaaaad! Break up someone else’s family — fucken illegals!! — and that’s goooood. So, it’s not really the family that’s the backbone of society …. it’s the right kind of family. Your kind.

Frankly, I think that’s evil. And I stand by my original assessment. You’re all heartless cocksuckers.

But, I still luv ya …. cuz we’re a family … a TBP family … and I know none of you would deport me back to the Land Of Lederhosen simply because of my contrarian ways.

Platoplubius
Platoplubius
  Stucky
June 13, 2018 2:43 pm

Wow! Truly amazing points about the lack of empathy and sense of entitlement us vs them thinking that many of us have fallen prey to at some points in our lives. Dial back your narcissism if you CAN! Regain what it means to walk in balance with the masculine and the feminine…it’s ok to listen to your heart once in awhile, doesn’t make you less of a man, or a pussy!

It’s amazing that Stucky, yes, the same Stucky who has been a shit throwing monkey for over a decade has written such an eloquent rebuttal to the self centered egotistical, heartless and unsympathetic commenters here

Shame! Shame!
Anonymity at its worst!
Kudos Stuck!

Stucky
Stucky
  Platoplubius
June 13, 2018 8:44 pm

It only took you a decade to realize that deep down inside I’m a pretty nice guy??

Ha! Just kidding.

The battle at times can be quite lonely. So, thank you much for the nice words of support.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
  Stucky
June 13, 2018 3:59 pm

You cannot have genuine empathy for someone you do not know. You can have fake feelings and pretend they are real or you can generate genuine feelings by drawing on past experiences that are real, but that’s it. Anything else is play acting, like DeNiro does in those mobster movies. He’s not really a Mafiosi, he’s a SAG member.

Now can we understand their plight, we can even feel sympathy, pity or sorrow for their condition, but without the human connection it’s inauthentic. The term ‘virtue signalling’ come to mind.

And why if your concern is for these children do you allow their own parents off the hook for their condition? They have the primary responsibility to protect and care for their children and yet here they are driving them like a goat herd across the countryside because they were unable to provide for them or to make their childhood safe and secure. And what about all the people in between their point of origin and the USA? They get a pass too? Mexico may not be California but it isn’t a war zone. Have they no responsibility to their regional brethren? Are their governments uniquely evil and without the capacity to deal with the flow of migrants that cross their lands?

We are being played like suckers because we are exceptional and have been for quite some time. We’ve opened our doors to any and all comers for so long that we have dispossessed our own posterity from their rightful inheritance and even that isn’t enough, we must bow down and suffer the added insults and ignominy of not being empathetic, of breaking up families, of being Nazis.

This is a no win situation for the Western World as conditions exist at present. We have exhausted ourselves in feeding and caring for the bulk of the world that cannot provide for itself. We have created endless streams of refugees clamoring for our resources, driven out of their own lands by the Industrial War Machine that ravages the globe in the name of the American people and for the sole benefit of the Elite Bankers and their consorts, wasted our finest DNA over a century and a half of cleverly engineered fratricides and subjected ourselves to an endless and suicidal epidemic of self abnegation, a spiritual black hole from which there appears to be no escape.

Stucky
Stucky
  hardscrabble farmer
June 13, 2018 8:39 pm

“And why if your concern is for these children do you allow their own parents off the hook for their condition?” ——— HF

Imagine The State coming on your farm and taking your children. My heart would break for both your children and YOU.

I am NOT letting the parents off the hook. I fully acknowledge and understand that they committed an illegal act. I am asking that people consider mercy and forgiveness. This seems to piss off all but a few here. We’re not talking about a violent crime here for Crissakes! Perhaps we shouldn’t do it blindly on a wholesale level but, rather, on a case by case basis. Let me give you an example.

Last week a guy from Ecuador who delivers pizza for a living in NYC for about 8 years …. yes, an illegal …. delivered pizza to a military base in the city …. and was arrested and faces deportation. He has no criminal record whatsoever. Just a pizza guy with an American wife and two children. Here …

[imgcomment image[/img]

I pity all those here who are willing — most are even delighted — to let The State take these children’s father away. I pity people who are so fucking glued TO THE LAW that it blinds them to the human suffering of others. I pity people who seemingly must follow THE LETTER OF THE LAW!! and can’t look at individual cases, and make humanitarian exceptions when it makes sense to do so.

Let me try to state my case this way. Let me show you what is one of the most disturbing passages of Scripture in the Bible …. imho.

“The Lord…visits the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children’s children, to the third and the fourth generation. ” ———- Exodus 34:6,7, and elsewhere

On the face of it, doesn’t this seem like pure evil? What kind of God punishes children 80-100 years in the future for sins their ancestors did???? Punishing humans for nothing THEY did. This should be revolting to all …. not only when God does it, but also when The Government does it. At any rate, this is the Old Testament God. Good News follows.

Jesus showed up. I can’t help but think that Jesus would ever agree to splitting up that family above. Can you? We’re all so happy and gleeful to proclaim from every mountaintop that “God is love!” … but when love-in-action is called for everyone runs for the hills.

That family above needs New Testament Christians to give them the helping hand of grace. They better not come to TBP! Lots of Old Testament believers here.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
  Stucky
June 17, 2018 1:06 am

The New Testament in no way suggests that invaders should ever get priority over your own family and community, quite the contrary, per Timothy…Only Churchianity, not Christianity, is willing to harm its own people for the benefit of invaders who are taking away jobs, welfare and medical resources, and even political power from citizens.
Despicable….

nkit the heartless
nkit the heartless
  Stucky
June 13, 2018 4:00 pm

It is quite possible to have empathy for these kids, as I do, but I have no sympathy for their parents who broke our laws when they tried to enter the country illegally with their children.

I can even sympathize with some of the children, but they are where they are because of the actions of their parents. The invaders (and the Democrat Party which badly wants their vote) now wish to use the children as something of a bargaining chip to gain preferential treatment. Too many illegals break laws in this country and are not held to judgement as our own citizens would be.

Yes, too bad for the children, but the entire blame falls upon their parents, not this country. They are owed nothing by this country just as Mexico owes me and my children anything.

Mary Christine
Mary Christine
June 13, 2018 12:42 pm

This is from one of the links in the author’s article

“White House Deputy Press Secretary Hogan Gidley fired back in a statement.

“Senator Merkley is irresponsibly spreading blatant lies about routine immigration enforcement while smearing hardworking, dedicated law enforcement officials at ICE and CBP,” he said. “He voted against closing the “catch-and-release” loopholes used by child smugglers, and his reckless open borders policies are responsible for the permanent separation of thousands of American families who have been forced to bury their loved ones.

“No one is taking a public safety lecture from Sen. Merkley, whose own policies endanger children, empower human smugglers and drug cartels, and allow violent criminal aliens to flood into American communities,” he continued.”

Who are we supposed to believe?

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2018/06/01/rich-lowry-a-misleading-story-about-lost-children-is-being-used-as-a-hammer-against-trump-immigration-policy/

If they are really taking the kids from the mothers, why would they do this?

Mary Christine
Mary Christine
  Mary Christine
June 13, 2018 10:10 pm

Two down votes because I am thinking critically? No one answered my question… Pendejos! It’s my new word, EC.

Platoplubius
Platoplubius
  Mary Christine
June 14, 2018 12:51 am

But do you know what pendejo means?

Pendejo is a Spanish word for
“stable genius”

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
  Mary Christine
June 17, 2018 1:08 am

Your question calls for speculation about something whose truth is unknown….

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
June 13, 2018 5:48 pm

Sometimes you have to sink the lifeboat to save the lifeboat.

Subwo
Subwo
  hardscrabble farmer
June 13, 2018 8:02 pm

Back in the 70s I read a book by a professor that advocated just that..lifeboat economics. A country should only have the population they can support. Bad times via famine, war, etc. until a balance is reached for the population either by contraction or expansion by taking others land.
My friend is a tejano. Half Anglo half Mex. He looks at it as just giving a family member a helping hand. I counter that 40 million are here and not going home, at the expense of citizens.

Vodka
Vodka
June 13, 2018 10:21 pm

This turned into a good thread. Good points made by all, except Yo, the Soros-paid troll.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
June 13, 2018 10:22 pm

There are some serious ideologues here. If you aren’t waving the flag at every Trumpian outburst or chanting kill, kill, kill (illegals, muzzies, jews, blacks, etc) they will thumb you down. The “P” word is too good for them. Try -putos or puñales. No doubt Bob will break in to say a puto is a Filipino cupcake, yeah right.

Anonymous
Anonymous
June 13, 2018 10:35 pm

El Coyote above was me.
EC

[imgcomment image[/img]

Mary Christine
Mary Christine
June 13, 2018 10:47 pm

What is the difference between a settler and an immigrant?

Still, no one answered my question above.

EC knows I have nothing against Hispanics. My daughter is married to a 3rd generation Mexican-American.

I am just saying that everyone has an agenda and in between all the lies you will find the truth..maybe.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Mary Christine
June 14, 2018 12:18 am

Oh here. Let me help you. I will down vote myself.
M C

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
  Anonymous
June 14, 2018 12:30 am

Now your getting it MC. Like getting your second wind, once you get over the irritation, you will begin to take down-thumbs as a badge of honor, you are an original thinker, not one of the bobble headed ditto duds that can’t even put together a lousy sentence to protest your comment or make a convincing counter argument..

Once you break free of that pressure, you will be like Maggie and T4C ; the men here will quiver with fear of offending you. Except Rdawg, he will complain about your saggy tits without actually seeing them, he’s intuitive or an idiot savant, who knows?

Anonymous
Anonymous
  EL Coyote
June 17, 2018 12:04 am

My tits will never sag, EC Everything else might, though MC

Platoplubius
Platoplubius
  Mary Christine
June 14, 2018 1:02 am

When we use nouns, labels, or titles to describe something as complex as an individual person,
We will always fail to account for what comprises the totality of that person.
Settler, immigrant, emigrant, refugee, nomad, life traveler, illegal alien, citizen ALL still are natural person’s

Take the label, terrorist or freedom fighters…dependent upon your views or understanding of the provided narrative, these labels could be used interchangeably, as I say,
One man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist.
I believe the point of language, particularly the English language, being used to obsfuscate intentions meanings while obfuscating importance and sowing confusion and indirectly contributing to apathy cultivation and maintenance

Platoplubius
Platoplubius
June 14, 2018 12:05 am

Here’s another example of no empathy Nazi ass, just doin my job bullshit

California woman ‘in shock’ after ICE agents detain father, a legal resident, outside home

If you didn’t file the correct paper work and pay the fees then you are not a homo sapien and aren’t afforded any God given NATURAL RIGHTS!
Although if you believe John Locke, every single person on the planet is born with certain unalienable rights…
The Constitution does not give us these rights, it outlines our rights so that the gov’t remembers….unfortunately most people have a poor understanding of this and speak out their asses when it comes about their supposed entitlement and others breaking of supposed laws, codes, statues and ordinances!
Ignorance is truly blissful to them.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
June 14, 2018 12:43 am

Stick around, Plato. Without clear thinking folks like you, this place would fall to the heathen horde like Rome to the Barbarians; the great unwashed that filled the vacuum left when LLPOH made himself scarce, SSS and a host of other bright minds who left due to the YoBo effect, the Nazification of the comments and the anti-Semitic meme warfare.

On the plus side, YoBe is a likeable dude so who cares if he drove away the intellectual crowd? Isn’t that the story of the Trump revolution?

Platoplubius
Platoplubius
  EL Coyote
June 14, 2018 1:07 am

Why thank you E.C.
There are a few astute thinkers on this site still, but it has been overrun by a bunch of hatemonger, one trick ponies, with an apparent ax to grind.

The thumbs down I receive only encourages me further.
It is as you say, A BADGE OF HONOR, I wear proudly, as does the mantle of VILLAGE Idiot Admin bestowed upon me haha!
That means something in Wonderland!
After all, WE’RE ALL MAD HERE!

Platoplubius
Platoplubius
June 14, 2018 5:03 pm

This thread shouldn’t be dead yet