Are We Headed Toward a Second Civil War?

Guest Post by Scott Morefield

Are We Headed Toward a Second Civil War?

Next to a nuclear strike, foreign invasion, or global pandemic, it’s hard to imagine something as bone-chillingly terrifying as a second hot Civil War. The first one was bad enough, what with the endless carnage and the deaths of over 620,000 soldiers in a time when the U.S. was sparsely populated and wartime technology was in its relative infancy, at least compared to today. Even if the military withheld its most destructive weapons, a modern hot civil war would be disastrous on a scale that’s barely imaginable.

It’s a prospect no sane person wants, even on the fringes of the right or the left. Yet, in today’s polarized age, most people now genuinely believe civil war to be a very real possibility. An October Georgetown Institute poll found that the average American believes we are “two-thirds of the way to the edge of a civil war,” while a solid majority believes that “political, racial, and class divisions are getting worse.”

From where I’m sitting, it sure seems that way, and it’s a topic that’s getting an increasing amount of coverage in the media from both conservative and liberal perspectives.

The Atlantic devoted its entire December issue to the topic of “How To Stop A Civil War.” Interestingly, it includes an article relating how marriage counseling techniques can help bring some sense of mutual understanding to people on both sides of the political spectrum. Because in truth, the kind of ‘contempt’ that research says ends marriages for good, the kind that left and right clearly have for each other these days, could very well end our nation.

In an article for The American Conservative titled, “Civil War Begins When The Constitutional Order Breaks Down,” Michael Vlahos writes of a “daily torrent of unfiltered evidence” that suggests that “our constitutional order is fissuring before our eyes.”

Leftist author Joseph Natoli, writing for CounterPunch about the “Looming Shadow of Civil War,” sardonically but accurately described how conservatives see the ideological opposition: “Liberals retain the old tax and spend/baby killing on demand profile, taking from working Americans and giving to lazy shirkers and on the way killing babies. The profile grows darker: gay marriage, gender choice, LGBTQ rights, amnesty to illegal aliens, open borders, confiscation of guns, cars, cattle, Jesus, Robert E. Lee and white privilege. The ‘extreme Left’ and Progressives have a thinner profile: Communists.”

The left, then, according to Natoli, sees Trump supporters as being motivated by “ignorance and stupidity at the top of the list, followed by racist, bigoted, misogynist and homophobic. In brief, if you voted for Trump, you were a troglodyte with a gun.”

Now, which of those characterizations appears more accurate and which are just a personal attack? Does the left not favor abortion, tax and spend, gun confiscation, and open borders? Don’t they, for example, incessantly yammer on about the ridiculous, nonexistent concept of “white privilege?” The only thing slightly offensive to some might be the “Communist” label, but many on the more extreme left likely only publicly eschew that label for fear of turning people off.

Trump supporters, of course, don’t cotton to the idea of being labeled as “racist, bigoted, misogynist and homophobic,” not to mention “ignorant” and “stupid,” by condescending, virtue signaling leftists full of their own self-defined “morality.” Yet, at least for now, we are all in the same boat, as HBO host Bill Maher pointed out in a somewhat-joking, mostly-serious “Real Time with Bill Maher” segment on Friday night. To Maher, the “single shining truth about democracy” is “sharing the country with assholes you can’t stand” in the same way families don’t typically choose their Thanksgiving dinner guests. (Sure, we all know who he’s talking about when it comes to “assholes,” but that doesn’t negate the overall point).

“You don’t get to choose the guests, because those freaks are your family,” Maher joked. “Think about that the next time you think you can own someone politically. Think about how you can see politics so differently from people who share your very blood.” The HBO host lamented the desire, on both sides, to “own” the opposition – a tactic that never actually changes minds – before grimly observing that, while a second civil war may sound “impossible,” it is actually “is not.”

Then the comedian, like Natoli, juxtaposed how both sides see each other: “We all talk about Trump as an existential threat, but his side sees Democratic control of government the exact same way. And when both sides believe the other guy taking over means the end of the world, yes, you can have a civil war.”

“We are going to have to learn to live with each other or there will be blood,” Maher soberingly concluded.

Is he right? It’s a bit lengthy, but I highly recommend read this article titled “How America Ends.” In it, Atlantic senior editor Yoni Appelbaum acknowledges both the demographic plight faced by the political majority in America – something “no rich and stable democracy has ever experienced” – along with the fact that democracy is imperiled when one or the other side feels hopeless at the prospects for future electoral victory. A 2020 Trump defeat, writes Appelbaum, would “only deepen the despair that fueled his rise, confirming his supporters’ fear that the demographic tide has turned against them.”

“When a group that has traditionally exercised power comes to believe that its eclipse is inevitable, and that the destruction of all it holds dear will follow, it will fight to preserve what it has—whatever the cost,” he continued. Appelbaum’s ‘solution,’ as it were, is for the rise of a center-right party that embraces immigrants and minorities in the same way the Democratic Party expanded its tent in the 30’s.

The article truthfully lays out the landscape in a way that few liberal publications have acknowledged, but the ‘solution’ it offers is simply more of the same. Can America survive when its elites are, against the will of a majority of Americans, importing millions of immigrants from cultures that have little to nothing whatsoever in common with that of the current citizenry? To Maher’s analogy, we may not “choose” our family any more than we “choose” our country-mates, but imagine the tension at Thanksgiving if said “family” included different members every year brought in at random with absolutely nothing culturally in common with the original members. At what point does the concept of assimilation, something that predictably isn’t mentioned in the article but has always been the key to a stable country, become impossible? Still, just turn some into right-of-center conservatives, Appelbaum smugly advises, and all will be well.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for recruiting minorities of any stripe into the conservative tent. Hispanics and African Americans who are courageous enough to outwardly support President Trump, despite the pushback they get from their own communities, have my unending respect and gratitude. However, when has ANY conservative leaning party been able to recruit even Hispanics, the group with which they have arguably forged the greatest inroads, at a level that could equal electoral victory in a Hispanic-dominated state? Even George W. Bush, for all his pandering, only managed to win 40 percent of the Hispanic vote in 2004. Most political analysts concede that even Texas will go blue by 2024, if not sooner. What chance will Republicans have on a national scale then?

Thus, the apocalyptic concerns of Michael Anton mentioned in the Atlantic article, laid out in his seminal 2016 essay “The Flight 93 Election,” are even more concerning now than ever. And contrary to Appelbaum’s contention, it is in fact Trump and his supporters who are trying to save America from collapse by curbing immigration to manageable levels. Because as daunting as the prospect of a civil war may be, many conservatives would choose that and all that goes with it – if some form of extreme federalism or non-violent secession doesn’t work – any day of the week over the even more disturbing prospect of being dominated by the political left for the foreseeable future.

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49 Comments
oldtimer505
oldtimer505
November 18, 2019 12:04 pm

Seems to me everyone is playing into the globalists plan. Maybe we should all take a deep breath, calm down and let the President of the United States lead us until he terms out. That is what we did under BO. What does everyone have to loose. We can always say “screw it” and kick each others asses. Or, we can just stop all this BS and get it done. What is there to gain by putting of the fight if everyone is aching for one?

Rob157
Rob157
  oldtimer505
November 18, 2019 10:37 pm

President Trump cannot even “lead” his own cabinet. The marxists were never going to let him have his Presidency; as far as they are concerned, it is their way, or no way. In any case, after being installed, when he said about dealing with the Clintons: “The Clintons are good people.”, he not only sealed his fate but it should have been obvious to everyone, we’ve all been had again.

As far as the civil war is concerned, the left will wage one, even if the “right” is afraid to. Their core people are communists, and they have no fear of telling you so, because they know you will do nothing about it. They openly chant crap like: “no border, no wall, no USA at all!”, and they can openly call for the extermination of the White man, with zero repercussions; if you do say anything back, you are labeled a nazi. Every institution is infested by the left, which began in the 1930’s, they own the gatekeeper positions, and you will never dig them out by “voting”.

The America you knew is gone. None of your options going forward are good. Only one option allows the possibility of removing the leftists, and returning to a safe and real civilization, which the left can never build, only destroy.

22winmag - w/o tagline
22winmag - w/o tagline
  Rob157
November 19, 2019 2:44 am

I’m on the 109 year plan myself.

Republicans have been keeping the Democrat Mob in check, just barely.

It all comes down to the state of affairs on and about 8-18-2020.
comment image

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  22winmag - w/o tagline
November 19, 2019 10:44 am

White horse gonna save the day, 22?

Martel's Hammer
Martel's Hammer
November 18, 2019 12:11 pm

OK let’s start the party. Trump is not the leader of the constitutionalist he is simply better than the alternatives. Sure he is the Grey Champion of this 4th Turning but the movement in opposition to the left would exist without Trump. There are simple eternal truths, that our country was founded upon. The supremacy of the individual over the state, that defending Big R, God-given Rights is the sole acceptable function of Government and that property rights and free markets ensure an economy that maximizes freedom and prosperity.

These simple principles have been under open and covert attack in the USA since it’s founding and post-Wilson the Progressive movement has been able to come very close to tipping the country away from its foundation…..If Hillary had won, that would have been it for the USA…..just as if 2020 goes to the left the USA as we knew will seek to exist.

What should be obvious to all now is that there is no “magic soil” that instantly transform third world shitholers into American citizens that embrace and willfully follow our founding principles.

This applies to the original black slaves who have failed to integrate successfully into a white Christian representative republic, or our LatAm brothers that while hard-working individually are not Americans. Even the more economically successful Asians don’t embrace our founding principles…they just cause less damage.

Nope, “diversity is our strength” has been repudiated by the facts on the ground.

The American way….of limited government, free markets and free people is apparently not a model most of the world is able to adopt.

White Christians can live like Americans (at least most can, you commie Yankees can fuck off).

So we are not on the edge of a civil war, we are in a civil war today that will only grow more desperate. I am not going to stop fighting for freedom, ever….just as the commie left so close to victory is not ever going to stop seeking full control of the USA.

Once the USA falls the entire planet will be quick to submit to the globalist agenda….we are the last bulwark and thus the virulent opposition to Orange Man Bad….Trump is standing in their way.

We can only ride the tiger from this point…there is no getting off the ride.

Lars
Lars
  Martel's Hammer
November 18, 2019 2:05 pm

“There are simple eternal truths, that our country was founded upon. The supremacy of the individual over the state, that defending Big R, God-given Rights is the sole acceptable function of Government and that property rights and free markets ensure an economy that maximizes freedom and prosperity.”

True. And we should emphasize John Adams’ admonition that these principles work only in a republic consisting of a moral and religious people. It is also justifiable to say further, based on his writings, that, as a Protestant Christian Anglo-Saxon White man, he was referring to White people.

card802
card802
November 18, 2019 12:18 pm

Hmmmmmmmm………..

If Trump runs and wins in 2020 liberals will self combust and save the country from a Civil War. If hiliary decides to enter the race and the dark state decides to have some fun and she wins, I predict conservatives will pull up their big boy pants and say, Well……..Fuck, a lot.

What I think will happen is dems will pull out a miracle and win the presidency and control both houses, stack the court with progs, create new laws, new taxes, new wars, less freedom, more government control and proceed to place that boot on everybody’s face, hunger games but no civil war.

Conservatives and liberals will both say, Well…….Fuck, a lot.

John Galt
John Galt
  card802
November 18, 2019 9:53 pm

Card, you are probably more right than wrong…

AC
AC
November 18, 2019 12:20 pm

The Democrats and GOPe are using immigration to disenfranchise the American people. It’s already happened in California. It’s happening in Texas.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/are-democrats-gerrymandering-population-their-open-borders-plans

https://national-justice.com/post-legal-america

It’s not merely treason, as preserving American posterity is one of the foundational purposes of the government, but it’s also literal genocide under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide – which the US has ratified.

Dutch
Dutch
November 18, 2019 12:22 pm

Right now it’s a cold civil war.

The government schools and universities have indoctrinated more than a generation of people. They have no internal compass of what’s right/wrong, practical/impractical, these people are damaged and make poor choices. With no internal ‘compass’ they consider any wild assed idea a possibility. Sure – free health care, free college, free money. Men marry men, sure why not. Trans boys on girls sports teams – sure. The list is endless, and keeps growing daily – such as social justice and white privilege. Then too there is rewriting of history by renaming streets / buildings / lakes / statues.

It’s not Republican vs Democrat. It’s really about people with solid understanding of the principles that our country was founded on, and limited government vs the brainwashed.

Crawfisher
Crawfisher
  Dutch
November 18, 2019 12:43 pm

If you look at cities like Seattle, the civil war is hot. The Mayor there instructed the police to stand down in dealing with violent Antifa groups. Baltimore and St Louis may not have the same Antifa sized presence; but the police are standing (or slowing) down policing of high crime areas due to being seen as racist. St. Louis and Baltimore’s murder rate are #1 or #2 in the USA (and top 20 in the world), they may have swapped places in the latest stats?
Point is Socialist elected leaders are purposefully leading the decline in their communities, which is leading to more violence, which I believe will spread to more stable communities.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Crawfisher
November 19, 2019 8:14 am

You are correct crawfisher : The surrounding counties of Baltimore City are experiencing increasing crimes in all categories . The former predominantly white middle class communities have had a severe influx of lower class individuals (mostly black) with section 8 vouchers that landlords are now forced to accept by law . Schools and communities are in a death spiral thanks to the liberal controlled state and local governments . But don’t you know none of the elected are generally affected where they live by the government supported migration of shithole dwellers . See no problem we are all just racists.
As our cars and property are vandalized , armed robberies and assaults increase and what do you know those caught for these crimes at a majority black , imagine that ?
I know it’s racism when a 4 black youths Jack a car break into homes and when confronted by police the wheel man runs her down and kills her . FYI the driver was under house arrest with an ankle monitor . Next time judge chain him to the wall in a cage and forget about him

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
November 18, 2019 1:27 pm

“Civil war begins when constitutional order breaks down”. From the top of the article.
That’s the plan but it’s not a civil war. It’s a staged destruction of a country. Same playbook, different day, different century, different country. At a minimum it goes back to Cromwell. They didn’t use the name Bolsheviks but the plan was the same. Paralyze the government, then loose the paid rioters and then the goon squads.

Martel's Hammer
Martel's Hammer
  Fleabaggs
November 18, 2019 5:58 pm

Then when there is desperation and panic…..bring in the iron hand of authority….Napoleon….Lenin/Stalin/NKVD and dear Adolph.

Dare we say Shah of Iran….and all the LatAm tin pot dictators Somoza et. al….nasty business being a globalist rat….”When you own a big chunk of the bloody third world, the babies just come with the scenery” Chrissie Hynde

Now it is the USA’s turn in the barrel (again)…that’s OK we been here before…

22winmag - w/o tagline
22winmag - w/o tagline
  Fleabaggs
November 19, 2019 2:47 am

The Republic and Republicans almost tapped out in 1910.

Almost, but not quite.
comment image

Lars
Lars
November 18, 2019 1:50 pm

“Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for recruiting minorities of any stripe into the conservative tent.”

The “of any stripe” phrase is code for non-White.

And no, Mr. Morefield, any White man who is awake enough to see his race as the tiny, now-depised global minority that it is – under seige from multiple fronts, targeted by powerful entities for extermination, and in desperate need of at least one all-White homeland if his progeny are to survive – is, unlike you, most certainly not “all for recruiting” said racial aliens under any “tent.”

Ivan
Ivan
November 18, 2019 4:26 pm

“Appelbaum’s ‘solution,’ as it were, is for the rise of a center-right party that embraces immigrants and minorities”

That’s like saying Applebaum should start eating ham to appease hog farmers in Nebraska. It will never happen, the mexicans do not want to speak english nor do the negroes.

As much as the establishment tried to homogenize America with strip malls, chain stores and subdivisions, it is more likely the states will separate from the Union and go their own way forming like minded alliances. Wyoming has little in common with Rhode Island and all that.

ILuvCO2
ILuvCO2
  Ivan
November 18, 2019 8:42 pm

Wyoming is too damn cold. This redneck yankee is going south. I feel I belong.

Martel’s Hammer
Martel’s Hammer
  ILuvCO2
November 18, 2019 10:36 pm

Been pretty balmy in MT. Just like last year then it was Arctic like from Jan to March.

22winmag - w/o tagline
22winmag - w/o tagline
  ILuvCO2
November 19, 2019 2:48 am

The landlocked Great Redoubt jokers are going to end up like Rhodesia.

Landlocked, embargoed, and surrounded.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  22winmag - w/o tagline
November 19, 2019 12:27 pm

I don’t know how to tell you this, but Washington and Oregon both border the ocean.

KaD
KaD
November 18, 2019 4:54 pm

It’s hard for me to see how we’re NOT. The law is a joke and applied differently depending on race and income, and we have two sides who are staunchly opposed to almost everything the other side stands for.
https://publicfigure.com/2019/10/06/revealed-soros-wanted-antifa-more-dangerous-than-isis-claims-founder-politicalite-uk/

TampaRed
TampaRed
November 18, 2019 6:50 pm

check out this story–it’s from natural news but the original source is alex jones so take it w/a grain of salt but they are saying that trump was taken to walter reed a couple of days ago b/c of a potential assassination attempt via food poisoning,4 at least the 2nd time–

https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-11-18-president-trump-unscheduled-stop-military-hospital-tests-chemical-food-poisoning.html

Articles of Confederation
Articles of Confederation
  TampaRed
November 18, 2019 8:04 pm

This seems like a more plausible conspiracy fact. Countless Roman emperors who the Praetorian did not align with were poisoned.

John Galt
John Galt
  TampaRed
November 18, 2019 9:59 pm

If he gets assassinated this will certainly kick of a hot civil war like many have never seen nor contemplated how fast shtf. Seriously. They know not what they are asking for and they will be sorry for moving too quickly as their long game became too long.

Brian Reilly
Brian Reilly
November 18, 2019 7:04 pm

The machine has to keep running. The uniparty here in the US, taking direction from their globalist masters, will ensure that things will not get so bad that the standard systems of theft and subjugation are not ruined. Keeping the machine running is the only way that crowd keeps having fun. They just need us to continue to voluntarily participate in the systems they have rigged. Regardless of scrapping at the periphery, as long as the productive slaves still show up, the machine keeps running.

If the machine ever stops, it will get unexpressibly ugly in a hurry, with swift declines in population measured in quarters, at least. At the end of that, the old crew will be out, because their ricebowl will have been destroyed. Don’t bet on that happening any time soon.

Articles of Confederation
Articles of Confederation
  Brian Reilly
November 18, 2019 8:06 pm

I need 4 more years of Trump to get comfortably up and running. Maybe I will change my mind and vote for him again. What a flip-flopper I am!

mark
mark
  Articles of Confederation
November 18, 2019 8:23 pm

AoC,

I can’t remember the thread – did you get my advice on deterring the dear deer?

Articles of Confederation
Articles of Confederation
  mark
November 18, 2019 8:46 pm

Yes, and my father loved it! He’s probably your age…said “his” generation was the most creative because they “had to be”. Arrogant prick. 🙂

mark
mark
  Articles of Confederation
November 18, 2019 9:02 pm
Articles of Confederation
Articles of Confederation
  mark
November 19, 2019 9:05 am

Mark,

I just want to get to the point where I have a ton of food for the birds to piss me off! Can’t do it until I control the antlered rabbits. 🙂 We’re getting a fence for sure, but unsure about the “add-ons”, like dogs, etc.

I suppose I should be grateful for this deer infestation because that’s food in grid down. But man, Lord, why piss me off along the way???

John Galt
John Galt
  Articles of Confederation
November 18, 2019 10:02 pm

Aoc, i heard getting bear and wolf shit from the zoo can also help when spread at edges of property. There are also motion activated halloween zip lines you could use to have a ghost like with sound mannequin fly from one tree to the next. Seen one and worked great. Sounds crazy i know.

Articles of Confederation
Articles of Confederation
  John Galt
November 19, 2019 9:02 am

Dude, that sounds right up my eccentric alley! LOLLL

That is interesting about the Zoo. I may talk to them about a mass dumpage of shit in my trailer!

TampaRed
TampaRed
  mark
November 18, 2019 10:06 pm

motion activated hi pressure sprinklers,if you can make them work in the cold–

yahsure
yahsure
November 18, 2019 8:05 pm

We are already in a war of ideals and plans going into the future. I don’t like most of what the Dems offer.
So many people are so willing to give up freedoms for peace and getting neither. Get ready for when SHTF, it’s coming.

overthecliff
overthecliff
November 18, 2019 8:46 pm

The only thing that will cause a civil war is the left starting the cleansing before they disarm the nutless conservatives and libertarians. We will only fight in self defense when bodily harm is under way not just imminent.That is sadly my evaluation of Boobus Americanus. It doesn’t make much difference to me personally, I’m pushing 80. My friends on TBP don’t ever disarm. You will regret it.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  overthecliff
November 18, 2019 9:57 pm

Cliff..
Qaddafi disarmed and look what happened next.

TampaRed
TampaRed
  Fleabaggs
November 18, 2019 10:08 pm

which is why rocketman & every other two bit dictator would be crazy to disarm–

overthecliff
overthecliff
November 18, 2019 8:56 pm

Maybe a civil war will start when a white girl is raped and nothing happens to the perps. Then a grandfather kills a bunch of them. Maybe then???!!!

John Galt
John Galt
  overthecliff
November 18, 2019 10:03 pm

Happens weekly already

Martel's Hammer
Martel's Hammer
  John Galt
November 19, 2019 12:31 am

Except for the grandfather part….

Anonymous
Anonymous
November 18, 2019 11:58 pm

We are very close to a put up or shut up throw down scenario and frankly I don’t care .
I’m worn out and am tired of being seen as a cash cow to be taxed for the benefit of others or for some cockamamie shit for brains Washington DC war for or on terror drugs poverty , ever notice who the victims are in these fully funded fools errands destain to fail for all involved except those profiting from it . Civil war huh government declared war on average American working people decades ago and now comes the results . Endless wars aggressive policing , failing economy for all but a small percentage good god man civil war has been raging just nobody told us

Reluctant Warrior
Reluctant Warrior
November 19, 2019 6:31 am

l think that we should consider holding a 2nd Constitutional convention that would include average citizens. I believe that the fundamental precepts of the Constitution are sound and need to be re-affirmed. At the same time we need to consider the way the world is changing. Population growth, advancements in technology, telecommunications, science and medicine mean that we need to make some modifications. If we could do this in a serious way and with a civil tongue then we can collectively decide how to move forward. I regard this as preferable to any kind of civil conflict.

TampaRed
TampaRed
  Reluctant Warrior
November 19, 2019 10:35 am

bad idea to have a constitutional convention–

MrLiberty
MrLiberty
  TampaRed
November 19, 2019 1:33 pm

Yes, like opening Pandora’s box. The ONLY people allowed to attend will be the people who are already causing all the problems. What will come out will ONLY be far worse. At least now we can point to the useless piece of paper and remind them of their oath. Once they take an oath to what will result from a Con Con, the mass killings and imprisonment will begin and ALL be fully legal.

flash
flash
November 19, 2019 6:35 am

The civil war has been hot since Deep State murdered Kennedy and Johnson covered up the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty which killed 34 American men. The war for total control of the criminal cartel masquerading as US government is between Zionists and Bolsheviks. We the People have no part in this war . It’s Zionists and Bolsheviks all the way down.

Anonymous
Anonymous
November 19, 2019 7:44 am

We are very close to a put up or shut up throw down scenario .
All the government actions regarding war on ….. pick a cause insert , is actually a war on American citizens freedoms . The confiscatory tax system and a debt loaded budget funding ever encroachment of law enforcement upon citizens . Laws passed to a point where average citizens can be hit with 3 felony charges before they step off their front porch daily .
The civil war has been in full silent swing for decades . Citizen struggle financially at greater and greater numbers while a small % of people profit obscenely . Government minions armed and otherwise continue to play the status quo just doing my job nonsense with salary and benefits lost to those taxed to fund such coverage like full retirement in their 50’s while former industry workers now work till they drop .
The racial and ethnic divides allow the powers that be to make off with a golden parachute handing citizens the debt and are told directly and indirectly to point fingers of blame at each other .
We are heading for hot confrontations due to our own lackadaisical inept efforts or no effort at all to control the narrative . Thru our own complacency we have allowed the circle jerk of Wall Street to K-Street to Capitol Street to literally rob us blind and convince us it’s for our own good . Some who spoke out were labeled nutty crazy or out of touch with the issues and the beat goes on even now !
I have seen the enemy and he is us : POGO