Submitted by Steve N.
Guest Post by Thom Hartmann
The current issue of The Atlantic magazine, founded itself in the years just before the Civil War, is ominously titled, “How to Stop a Civil War.”
If we are, indeed, on the brink of a second Civil War, it’s already being waged as a “cold war,” with the occasional armed skirmish being provoked by the so-called alt-right movement. And, as in the past, this will be a war by the very, very rich against the rest of America.
This is not the first time we’ve faced such a crisis as a nation.
Each time, forces of massive accumulated or inherited wealth have nearly succeeded in taking full control of our nation, replacing a democracy, where the will of the people is accomplished through their elected representatives, with a form of government where most government functions reinforce the power, wealth and control of the morbidly rich.
This system of government is among the most ancient, stretching back 7,000 years, and is known to political scientists as oligarchy. Aristotle put it in context: “Tyranny is a kind of monarchy which has in view the interest of the monarch only; oligarchy has in view the interest of the wealthy; democracy, of the needy…”
For oligarchy to totally take down democracy, only three things are initially needed:
- Control of (or substantial influence over) a critical portion of the media
- Legalization of bribery of public officials, so oligarchs can achieve majority control of the legislative process
- Control of the most critical parts of the court system so they can control legal processes
A fourth element, once the oligarchy is well established, is the formation of a police state, principally using selective prosecution against those agitating for a return to democracy.
Arnold Toynbee is said to have noted that “When the last man who remembers the horrors of the last great war dies, the next great war becomes inevitable.” Most warriors are in their late teens or early 20s; by the time they’ve died, three more generations have come of age, suggesting, if Toynbee was right, a four-generation gap between “great wars.”
In their book The Fourth Turning: What the Cycles of History Tell Us About America’s Next Rendezvous With Destiny, William Strauss and Neil Howe apply the theory to the United States. The Revolutionary War began in 1775; 86 years later in 1861, the Civil War began; 78 years later in 1939, America was combatting “the twin emergencies of the Great Depression and World War II,” write Strauss and Howe, adding: “Sometime before the year 2025, America will pass through a great gate in history, commensurate with” these crises.
The three crises did not simply come out of nowhere; cycles of events had been building for the preceding generations to create the context for each.
In the 1770s, foreign-aligned oligarchs controlled what we now call America; believers in democracy fought a war to overthrow that British oligarchy.
Four generations later, in the 1850s, massive wealth was controlled by a few thousand very large plantation oligarchs in the South. The South was politically and police-wise run as a full-blown oligarchy, while the North was still largely democratic (the “Gilded Age” Northern oligarchs wouldn’t fully emerge for another 30 years). The Civil War could thus be recast as a war between oligarchy and democracy, where democracy won by a whisker.
About four generations after that, in 1921, Warren Harding and his oligarch supporters took control of our federal government, leading to the “Roaring Twenties” (in which working people’s wages stagnated, but people at the top made out like bandits), and the Great Crash of 1929. The Republican Great Depression (what they called it until the 1950s) opened the door to Franklin Roosevelt’s “war” against the “economic royalists” (oligarchs), which succeeded in putting them, at least temporarily, in a box despite their explicit efforts, exposed by Marine General Smedley Butler, to overthrow him by force.
In 2019, it’s been about four generations since that battle—and the groundwork has been laid for another crisis.
In the 1970s, America’s oligarchs succeeded in getting enough of “their guys” placed on the Supreme Court to, in 1976 and 1978, legalize political bribery for the first time in American history. This opened the door to oligarchic control of all three branches of government via the Reagan Revolution.
All that was left was to get the populace to support a final transition to oligarchy, a task undertaken by oligarchs who controlled the media, largely Clear Channel/Rush Limbaugh and billionaire Rupert Murdoch with Fox News and the Wall Street Journal.
As a result, we are no longer a functioning democratic republic; we are now operating as an oligarchy.
The argument for oligarchic control is the same argument that’s been made by “conservatives” through history, from Thomas Hobbes to Sir Edmund Burke to Warren Harding and Donald Trump:
“With us in charge, we will keep you safe and happy and you really don’t need to concern yourself with the complicated work of governance. You don’t want to ‘tear down’ or ‘shake up’ the system: having a stable group of very wealthy people control the government has always led to the greatest level of stability and peace—look how stable Europe was for a thousand years when royal families and their landed gentry ruled. We’re the ones chosen by God or a brilliant DNA lineage to lead. Just go shopping and leave things to us.”
Starting in the 1980s, oligarchy was sold to us by “conservative” religious figures (“Saint Reagan,” G.W. Bush was a godly man, Trump is King Cyrus, John Calvin was right that being rich is a sign of God’s blessing so nations are best run by rich people), as well as oligarch-owned media.
Starting in the past decade, this sales pitch has extended itself to a massive social media ecosystem majority-owned by a handful of American oligarchs, some of whom have expressed confusion about democratic governance and all of whom have directly or indirectly bought control of large numbers of local, state and federal legislators.
This led us from the “oligarch-friendly” President Reagan, to the conversion, in 1992, of the Democratic Party via the Democratic Leadership Council to become “oligarch-friendly” itself (a legacy it’s today struggling to undo). In 2016, oligarchs like Robert Mercer and Charles Koch finally put an oligarch himself, Donald Trump, in the White House.
When, in 2015, I asked former President Jimmy Carter what he thought the consequences were of Supreme Court decisions like Buckley v. Valeo and Citizens United that made all this possible, he replied:
“It [the Citizens United decision] violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president. And the same thing applies to governors and U.S. senators and Congress members.
“So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
That same year, then-Vice President Joe Biden said, “you have to go where the money is. Now where the money is, there’s almost always implicitly some string attached. … It’s awful hard to take a whole lot of money from a group you know has a particular position, then you conclude they’re wrong [and] vote no.”
As former Vice President Al Gore wrote in his 2013 book The Future: “American democracy has been hacked. … The United States Congress … is now incapable of passing laws without permission from the corporate lobbies and other special interests that control their campaign finances.”
And, in 2015 while campaigning for the Republican nomination for president, oligarch Donald Trump candidly said, “I gave to many people, before this, before two months ago, I was a businessman. I give to everybody. When they call, I give. And do you know what? When I need something from them two years later, three years later, I call them, they are there for me.”
In 2014, researchers Martin Gilens and Benjamin Page (Princeton, Northwestern) demonstrated that we ceased to be a functioning democracy by classical definitions sometime in the late 20th century, and have been, as President Carter said, an oligarchy (my term, not theirs: they call it “Economic-Elite Domination”) since then.
The difference between now and the 1860s is that the oligarchic control is no longer regional; it’s national. Instead of the North and the South fighting each other, it’s now Free Speech TV viewers facing off with their Fox News–viewing neighbors.
The Koch oligarchy machine, for example, has branches in every state, and pretty much every county. Oligarchy-supporting media are ubiquitous.
And now Very Serious People are talking about the possibility of a second Civil War.
What they’re not pointing out, though, is that it won’t just be a war of white supremacists and Trump cultists against the rest of us, as they generally narrate, but a war between those comfortable with oligarchy (indeed, embracing it, as it promises them safety and stability) versus those who believe in democracy.
This is a crisis point for our nation as real and critical as those we hit in 1776, 1861, and 1932. In each of those three cases—roughly four generations apart—the oligarchs lost the battle. This time they could win.
America needs an honest discussion of what’s really going on in this country right now, what the real conflict is, and who the real players are (and why they’re playing). The conflict is playing out on a series of meta-layers (race, class, religion, regionality), all designed to conceal the real war the oligarchs are waging against democracy itself, and those conflicts will continue to intensify until one side or the other has won what is now still a “cold war.”
Then comes the threat of a real Civil War breaking out, and an informed populace is the best defense against it.
If the forces of democracy can succeed in seizing enough power to temporarily hobble the oligarchs, then they need to immediately restore local control to the media (undoing the 1996 Telecommunications Act and breaking up the media conglomerates) and reinstate a ban on the “right” of oligarchs to own politicians and political parties by overturning several Supreme Court decisions since 1976. Repairing the damage done to our court systems will take longer, but needs to begin immediately.
On the other hand, if the oligarchs decide to promote an actual “hot” Civil War on the forces of democracy—as Southern oligarchs did in 1861—then parts of America that are still functioning democracies (California comes to mind—there has been discussion of various “compacts” between the three West Coast states, possibly joining with a few Eastern Seaboard states) must consider some form of independence, whether it be “soft independence” like California declared when they established their own air quality standards or some form of partial independence or succession.
This moment of oligarchy-caused crisis is a time of great danger to America, and, thus, also to still-functioning democracies all over the world.
As oligarchs reach out and extend their control over nation after nation (now having seized, in just the past few decades, either soft or hard control over Russia, India, the Philippines, Hungary, Poland, Brazil, and dozens of other nations) the battlegrounds are shifting to Australia, the United Kingdom, the United States, and France.
Because the oligarch’s campaign is now international, a third world war is not impossible, particularly as China allies itself with the oligarch-controlled nations against those that are still functioning or nearly functioning democracies.
The stakes couldn’t be higher.
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Wow, that is some really excellent gaslighting right there…..CA, one of the last repositories of “Democracy” in the USA…..OMFG! Not a single GOP in statewide office….utter total one-party rule in CA….who is this author…..Ignorance is Strenght! War is Peace and Slavery is Freedom……damn you funny!
The white population of California has fallen under 50% of the total, and it’s happened in 50 years. This is white genocide in action.
This is worse than what happened to the Romans when the Empire fell.
“with the occasional armed skirmish being provoked by the so-called alt-right movement” Uh, WTF?
It’s not the ‘alt-right’ beating people on the streets, doxxing them, getting them fired from their jobs, pulling down statues or driving them out of restaurants.
“If we are, indeed, on the brink of a second Civil War, it’s already being waged as a “cold war,” with the occasional armed skirmish being provoked by the so-called alt-right movement. ”
Which side is more likely to respond with violence when confronted with speech they don’t like?
I don’t buy it. People taking up arms like anything resembling what happened in the middle of the 19th century? I think the vast number of people are more keyboard warriors rather than actual ones. I can easily see breakout battles of those poor saps that are sucking on the government welfare tit that grows dry rioting and robbing. History proves that’s possible. I’m actually fine with that. It’s most likely to happen where liberal policies have decimated family cohesion; LA, Baltimore, Chicago, Philly etc. Let the gun hating libtards that ring those cities battle it out.
But being a non-violence man I much prefer we have our civil war by simply stop voting. If enough of us did the state would die from irrelevance. Remember when the ussr lost relevance? They just went away. Easy-Peesy-Japaneesy.
Nature abhors a vacuum. If the masses stop voting TPTB would just install leaders more brazenly than now. To opt out we need to say no to things such as credit, consumerism hedonism, retirement schemes and the entertainment foisted on us. Hit these people where it hurts.
The 1850s South…an oligarchy??? Give me a break. Perhaps in the large, wealthier metro areas of then (Charleston, ATL, Savannah, Richmond, NOLA, etc.). And the north more democratic??? Puhleeezzzeee.
If only 6% of southerners owned slaves, why did the “poor” volunteer and fight so hard? BTW, I believe that around 4-5% of “yankees” owned slaves too. DUH. And, oh I forgot, the yankees had to institute a draft.
Yeah, and the democratic North gunned down the Irish who refused to be drafted, in cold blood in NYC. This is a hard left puff piece based on utter poppycock.
Lamont.
Right about slave in the North.
Lincoln didn’t free the slaves in the northern slave states of Md. Mo. Ky. and De.
I am sick to death of constantly hearing how we are a ‘democracy’ or a ‘democratic republic’. We have always and only been a ‘constitutional republic’.
To quote Benjamin Franklin:
“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what they are going to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”
We need to constantly correct those the refer to the US as a democracy. How many people can recite the “Pledge of Allegiance” today? Point out that it says “…to the REPUBLIC, for which It stands…”
Just stop already. Anyone with that opinion is slow on politics. For all practical purposes, a democracy and a republic are synonyms. Hell, the only difference, a trivial one, is that democracy suggests that a person can take the law into his own hands, whereas a republic only allows voting for representatives to exercise the power of the people. Ever hear of the term federation? And why shouldn’t lambs be eliminated? Emasculation is to be cultivated? The Pledge is a domesticated animal’s shibboleth.
Plato called Democracy one of the 6 evilest forms of government because it was rule by the mob.
…And what if you happen to be a lamb on the menu?
Hope the Vegans show up in flocks.
Is this some kind of misdirection about who the perpetrators are?
No, it is an example of how a Communist thinks. They are the kind of people who believe that laws should be followed if you can use them against your enemies, and that any law that hampers their Communist proletariat must be disobeyed and ignored.
Thom Hartman is just another blowhard from the Democratic Socialist wing of that party. Anytime he’s talking about oligarchs what he means is that he thinks they (YOU!) aren’t paying enough taxes, and that the troublemakers (anyone who opposes socialism ) must be part of the oligarchs and that if you are forced to pay enough taxes and are marginalized by their Marxist laws, then you will go away. This is one of the most warped gaslight hit jobs I’ve seen in awhile, whose purpose is to tell people that the leftists aren’t causing any problems, and that their new laws will “deal” with those who oppose them. It literally sounds like Soviet propaganda from the 1930’s.
The Alt-left has mental problems and will start it: the FSA, Liberals, Communist, Muslims, ZOG, Atzlan, ANTIFA, etc. If you can’t even get that right, you aren’t worth the time.
“The civil war could thus be recast as a war between Oligarchy and Democracy, where democracy won by a whisker”? “Roosevelts war against the economic royalists”? “The occasional armed skirmish being provoked by the so called Alt-Right movement”? What a commie puke. I stopped reading right after Roosevelt. Did I miss anything?
Not much. A couple more similar lies.
HSF gives people a hard time for not reading the entire essay. But time is money. I’m not wasting my time on this drivel. To be honest, I did try to skim it when I realized it was just a bunch of leftist drivel. I tried. I really did.
Correction, time used to be money ,before negative rates
WOW. GAG. Roosevelt’s war against the economic royalists? Do, WHAT? Because unhinging our currency from the gold standard and making gold possession illegal SO helped the average American. The South was an oligarchy? Right. Because the South had all the money, and power, and won the war of agression with superior firepower and industrialized production. Wait. What?
Talk about having your head shoved squarely up your own ass.
It’s been a nasty war since Hillary Clinton decided to run. The country is being damaged by people who won’t accept the election results. The people who are ok with unborn baby murder and taking away guns.
There’s a lot of problems that need to be fixed. Not this impeachment circus. Rules for radicals stuff is going on.
Problems that need to be fixed or just junked? Muh tree. Muh organic life cycle. Fix the enemy? Is that like rebuilding Japan and Europe after ‘winning’?
Muh?
This person has such a revisionist view of American history I wonder if he’s ever read the real thing. But then, his favored sources are Jimmy Carter the Incompetent, Al Gore, and Joe Biden. OK, he’s a communist and ready to overthrow the Constitution, since he says it’s not in force.
Note: America was founded as a _representative Republic_, not a democracy. From that initial fault his entire argument falls to pieces, and his true colors come out.
I had to stop reading at Paragraph 16 and almost stopped on the completely fallacious statement about the oligarchic South versus the democratic North. Guess he never studied any of the antebellum tariffs levied by the Northern industrial interests. It’s good to read the viewpoint of your political opponents, but there’s enough non-factual bullshit in there for me to spend my time more wisely.
AOC.
Exactly.
Thom …you are a fucking idiot. Democracy didn’t win by a whisker…a despot who was America’s Hitler won ,in order to end the Representative Republic. A strong Federal Government replaced the rights of the states.
I have to agree with that point, objectively, America was less democratic and increasingly centralized after the Civil War.
True that financial control by an oligarchy of connected groups and individuals either holding or controlling too much of the nations wealth thus too much political control is firmly in place . The results are in and for the majority of Americans the Republic not the democracy circles the drain .
This will end badly !
FORGET ME NOT
Will America’s Billionaires Start a Second Civil War?
Let’s hope so!
As long as we can shut down the airfields and borders before they escape to London or Berne or Haifa or Paris, wherever shitbirds fly off to after they ruin their nest. And we get to seize all their shit, too. And purge them, their families, and business cronies.
There Is No Voting Our Way Out Of This (TINVOWOOT)
We won’t convince the libtards to be reasonable.
We won’t convince them to accept elections and peaceful changes of leadership.
We won’t convince them violence is not a solution and civility is not weakness.
We won’t convince them to accept a non-violent divorce.
We won’t convince them to leave us alone.
So let’s stop the hand wringing and embrace the coming struggle. You can’t stop a war if half the belligerents want a war. We can’t live together anymore. We can’t retreat from them or just move West to greener pastures. We can’t have peace. We can’t have live-and-let-live. We’ve tried. They don’t want peace. They don’t stop agitating and attacking us. They will stop at nothing to seize power and, ultimately, to kill or enslave us.
Embrace it.
Like it, or not, you will be overtaken by this conflict once it starts. I fully expect it to be extremely nasty, followed by a long-term counterinsurgency and a necessary purge of libtards, communists, socialists, and freaky-freakies of all brands ranging from execution to concentration camps to dispossession and black listing to banishment. If we’re lucky, we’ll settle their hash before they spread the conflict, but I believe we’ll see them expand it into a class war and a race war and maybe even a religious war, which will prolong the conflict and rip the country into bits. Even if you aren’t interested in fighting your neighbors, at that point, your side will be selected for you by your color. Skinbership will have its privileges, depending on where you are located.
Otherwise, expect Yugo-style checkpoints and ethnic cleansing and population exchanges. Ethnic raids and house burnings and rapery on a vast level. Expect paramilitary groups, like Arkhan’s Tigers, engaging in patriotic/race/religious violence on one side and violent organized crime against everyone on the other. Expect regular army forces operating in conjunction with violent radical paramilitaries. Expect chaos as the military shakes itself out between loyalists and rebels and race/crime/ethnic groups and whatever survives of the fedgov. And expect serious insane violence when the various factions all try to seize the weapons, vehicles, armor, MGs, etc the DOD salted away in every community in national guard armories and when they started arming the cops with the Army’s hand-me-downs. All those MRAPS are going to be used in your community by somebody (Ever considered HOW to stop one with what you got? Best consider it. They’re not indestructible, but they’re a mobile pillbox.)
I don’t think they have a chance of success, because their side is not one monolithic side. They might essentially be communists at heart, but most of them are more loyal to their racial and ethnic and “special identity” groups, i.e. trannies, homos, lesbians, climate protesters, black racists, latinos, jewish intellectuals, metrosexual commie crypto-racist liberals. Those groups don’t really like each other. They’re not collectively fighting FOR something, but AGAINST what patriotic conservative trad Americans are fighting for. They hate America, freedom, trad values, sovereignty, capitalism, the constitution, etc. Negative values do not motivate people to fight and die; positive ones do. If you were a black nationalist anti-white racist, how would I, as a transsexual body modification communist have to do to convince you to die for my cause? It’s even worse when the economy under Trump is the best blacks have seen in several generations. How many traditional pro-reconquista hispanics are interested in getting shot in the fight for gay rights and stopping anti-jewish right wing nazis?
I think this weak amalgamation will be a wet dream for psychological operators. It will be absurdly easy to play one group off against another.
The natural hatred these groups have for each other will likely surface once the going gets tough. What would you bet the well-meaning, but dumb white liberals will find themselves on the receiving end of a whooooole lot of abuse from the blacks they condescendingly think they’re leading? Those who think they can indoctrinate these disparate groups under the red banner might find the failure of American education impossible to overcome. After decades of lowering standards for blacks, and their anti-learning culture, imagine trying to reeducate them to embrace Marx? And how will you motivate guys used to the wake-and-bake ghetto welfare culture to get up and go risk their lives, anyway? Actually, if you think about it, the libtards will have their hands full just trying to feed and pacify their own “allies,” lest they riot in the rear. And the organized crime among their own ranks will be something to behold. What you want to bet patriots could literally buy their foes’ weapons from them for drugs, booze, or gold? The corruption would probably make the stories about Russians selling tanks for vodka pale in comparison.
We might lose parts of the US to racial majorities, but I think in the long run they’ll collapse and under the weight of poor leadership, poor infrastructure, poor trade, brain drain, etc. The exception is probably the Southwest, which I’m sure will receive a healthy dose of support from South of the Border. And possibly from overseas. I’m sure China would love to fund our rebellious provinces and prolong the war for as long as possible. I don’t know who will fund and support the right side, tho. I suspect our allies will support the fedgov, which will not necessarily be on our side at the beginning. We could easily have a 3-way fight between conservatives, libtards, and the fedgov caught in the middle.
The worst part of this whole thing will be reigning in the hardcore communists who turn to bombings and arson and assassinations for years afterward. That’s part of why they’ll need to be purged. Every group’s membership rolls and associates and affinity groups will have to be searched out, IDd, located, and captured and interrogated. Cyber forensics, old social media posts, school yearbooks, forensic accounting, interrogations, good ol’ police work, etc will all have to be used to track down the radicals hiding among the masses. And the ones who are allowed to stay among us will have to be banished from public life. Not one professor, magazine, alternate political group, political action committee, lobbyist, protest group, etc will be left unturned, lest they start the agitation all over again.
Once we win, and I believe we will, and we purge the body politic of all the communist freaky-freakies, we can prepare for at least several generations of peace. Once the war is over, and we’re on our feet, I think it would be good sport to send hit teams around the world to finish off those billionaires who managed to fly the coop before the doors were secured. Just as a lesson to anyone else hoping to meddle in our nation’s affairs. Final score: I think trad Americans win with at least 2/3 of the nation, population loss in the tens of millions, and possibly abandon the Republic for the duration of the emergency until a new government can be reconstituted.
Then again, maybe it won’t happen and we’ll just post memes on facebook about each other til the end of time.
Got me leaning in gilberts…riveting read…maybe my recent body armor purchases was money well spent.
I don’t think you can lose on that investment.
I think some on the left are starting to realize they’re poking a sleeping dragon. Did you notice Bill Mahr is publicly calling for reconciliation and tolerance? Contrast that with that article the other day about CNN suggesting we forcibly de-program conservatives.
Good post, gilberts. Just a couple of very quick assessments/thought experiments as I see them. I’d like to see Mark and Flea chime in at least.
1. Once it’s clear Washington has either lost control or is dominated by libs (my bet is on 2024 or before), Russia first strikes in a limited nuclear capacity. Likely not ICBMs, but tactical and/or underwater moles along the coastlines. Ultimately, Russia being a Christian, conservative nation will side with American conservatives. In our nation’s history, they’ve always been opposed to the Queen Kneelers. I expect the same this time around.
1. a. A quick corollary I just got sidetracked on in this edit: I think Europe is so weak and pussified, with an internal sleeper cell of millions of angry MENAs, that they get overrun by Enemy X (take your pick) in a matter of weeks. I wouldn’t be shocked to see W Euro trash govts. relocate to NYC.
2. The ChiComs will also take advantage of the situation. My bet is they ultimately find themselves in CA, maybe even the PacNW. No Navy, right? I wonder about that. Is the ghost fleet of container ships still floating off Singapore? Are they still capable of surfacing in the middle of our fleets without being detected?
I don’t think the Russians have any need to nuke us. I don’t fear a Russian first strike. I am much more afraid of our own leaders striking them first. They think they can win a limited nuclear war now. They are used to being in charge and having the world obey them, but the balance of power is shifting and the US doesn’t punch as hard as it used to. Our ability to exert pressure is diminishing, while Russia’s strength is growing. Thanks to their retarded monetary strategy, the US is in danger of destroying itself without Russia firing a shot.
I think in this war, we’ll be far too busy dealing with our own problems to fight overseas. I bet our allies will suddenly get very quiet, lest they piss off Russia. And we’ve seen Chinese money makes our allies think twice about crossing them. They took US$ for decades and they’re happy to ignore us now. Russia and their ally, China, will be in a position to change a lot of things to their advantage. We will probably never get the initiative back. That will be a tough pill to swallow. And the US might abandon Eastern Europe to bring their troops home. What good are Marines in Estonia if Virginia is in open rebellion? Poland is gonna be piiiiisssed. I bet Ukraine will be forced to crawl through glass to get Russian support and assistance when the US is gone and the EU proves less than useless.
I wonder what DC would do if they were looking at revolting units, an unreliable chain of command, out-of-control crime and desertions, and the potential for nukes to get out? I bet the fleet would not be out doing much. How do you secure nukes if you can’t trust your own military? Collect them all in 1 place? Collect all the keys and books and whatnot? Put guards on top of guards? Assign DHS to guard DOD? FBI loyalty commissars at Battalion level? Base families used as hostages? I wonder if they would put subs out and keep them out as long as possible under the arctic under radio silence and out of the loop where they couldn’t learn what current events were and could serve as a silent threat against Russian and Chinese adventurism in North America?
I read an article a couple years ago where they argued Putin was in a powerful position to serve, or at least pretend to serve, as the bulwark of Christianity in Europe. With Holy Mother Russia’s orthodox faith, he could make a legit argument to American Christians that only Russia was left protecting The Faith in the world and they should move there to join him. He would benefit from a huge number of productive, useful people, while the US would see their productive, loyal, tax-payers leave. If America’s most loyal, most religious, most reliable people feel they no longer have common cause with the USA, what’s to keep them here? It’s like Kipling’s The Mother Hive.
I think you’re right about China. They would happily arm the opposition in exchange for bases and trade deals on the west coast. They’ve already been caught shipping AKs to gangs. And they would be all over our high tech industries, ports, resources, etc. The fedgov would be hard-pressed to deal with that, especially with their own citizens clustered all over around the targets.
Dude…good stuff to ponder on a brisk Thanksgiving morning tomorrow. Appreciate the reading material and counter-thoughts.
I was told some of the best discussion on TBP happens just like this… to watch for a back and forth that goes longer than the norm
And, it was a good tip on this discussion between Artie and Gilly.
I think some folks are just asskissing the “popular” folks and missing the best part: a real honest discussion between people who know their shit stinks too.
Gil, you said…”I don’t think the Russians have any need to nuke us. I don’t fear a Russian first strike. I am much more afraid of our own leaders striking them first. They think they can win a limited nuclear war now. They are used to being in charge and having the world obey them, but the balance of power is shifting and the US doesn’t punch as hard as it used to.”
This is not unrelated. I went to the Poplar Bluff Veterans Hospital to get a new prescription and eyeglasses, which will be mailed to me at my convenience.
There is a gorgeous wall celebrating Women Veterans going up. My eye exam was near the pharmacy, so I sat in that waiting room, where there is a large flat screen that plays a variety of patriotic messages and customer service type advertising. After a few minutes, I grasped what I was seeing.
Every image of every group of soldiers, sailors, marines or airmen was politically correct. At least half of the uniformed were women.
There were a minority of white males in almost every single image of a military group.
I could go look up the demographics of the armed services, but I won’t now. I think there is something very dangerous embedded in the propaganda.
I hope Mark, Flea, Marc, gilberts, EC… et al soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen (coast guard too, I suppose) will chime in and tell me this:
When, in the history of armed conflict, has a country advertised that the majority of its fighting force that it takes pride in are FEMALE?*
It not only looks ridiculous to me, it looks ludicrous to ALL those older, wiser men and women waiting in the VA pharmacy. For their “free” drugs. They know it is bullshit, too. But, guess what? If they make too much noise? Maybe no “free” drugs. Or new eyeglasses every two years. (EVERY single honorably discharged Veteran!)
(*Mythical Amazonian warriors aside?)
Thanks for the tip, P. You were right on this one.
The green card giveaway by our military for service is a huge problem. These people came here and joined to gain legal access and citizenship not fight for a country in which they refuse to assimilate. Much of our military is what would be called in ancient times as a mercenary army at best. It is chock full of diversity with little to no patriotism…
Not to mention the best jobs for postwar vets is as a mercenary where there ARE no rules.
I wasn’t the only one who saw through the blatant PC nonsense when I was in the Army. It’s like being in the USSR. Practically everyone knows 99% of the females are useless dead weight and it’s never going to change and they literally can’t breathe a word of it outside of their buddies. In my experience, females wreck unit cohesion and morale, can’t carry their own gear, use sex to get ahead, aim for pregnancy to avoid deployment, make false accusations of sex assault or harassment to hurt their enemies or avoid trouble, and generally create chaos. It’s not a few bad apples, either. I would say it’s the vast majority of them. I had an SFC, for example, who was a crack NCO. He refused to speak to his own E4 alone, because she was so malignant and stupid, he feared she would just invent something to charge him with. (She did it to others.) He required her to have at least one other soldier present to speak to him.
The black females were immature and nasty in their own unique way. During training, they were constantly tattling on each other about the most minute things. They would sneak up to the drills’ door to push little notes under it about who was chewing gum or whatever. They were often punished with their targets, but it never stopped them. They would cut their nose off to spite their face. A lot of them obviously liked gaining authority, ANY authority, over others and treated subordinates like dirt.
The military can fill itself up with all the minority snowflake unicorns it wants. It’s still going to need the white southern patriotic Christian males it has always relied on to get things done. I wonder if it will be able to succeed in a real war? In the war I’m talking about, I think the rainbow separates itself and the individual colors all take as much as they can back to their side.
If you’re a female vet, and you did your part with a minimum of drama and bullshit, I’m sorry-no offense aimed at you. I can think of 2-3 good ones out of all the ones I knew. One was a genuine hero for her efforts to save a guy bleeding out on a Stryker ramp while everyone just stood around watching. My opinion of her lowered when I found out she was giving guys hummers in the air guard hatch of the vehicle.
I am so glad you said that!
Listen. I grew up in the 70s, when Helen Reddy was blaring out “I am Woman” at the top of her scrawny lungs.
It was a time of mixed messages to young girls, wasn’t it?
And boys.
For me, it was all the older ignorant asshole men from the south who made me decide not to stay in the military. They only advanced because they had stayed in long enough. Most of the younger guys from the south were ok. Today’s youth could learn a lot about Gov. waste and grow up a bit by serving. I would advise women to stay away from the military unless they are into being raped. It happened a lot.
Maggie.
I never pay attention to those signs and posters. I guess I’ve developed a BS screen.
Poplar Bluff was a nice little town. Used to camp in that N.F. just east of town.
In the Camelot RV park? Is where my friend Rich parked too. And, will next time. His wife is from BERNIE.
Seriously, what are the odds of having a boss/instructor in the USAF on your first assignment who is married to someone from a podunk farm town down the road where you grew up.
Chapter 1 of Victoria explains how the USA lost because their military was more concerned with social experimenting than warfighting.
https://www.traditionalright.com/the-view-from-olympus-a-big-win-for-4gw/
“Did we think it merely a coincidence that all armies, everywhere, that had actually fought anyone had been made up solely of men? But these were the last days of the U.S.A., and the absurd, the silly, the impossible were in charge and normal people were expected to keep their mouths shut. It was a time, as Roger Kimball said, of “experiments against reality.”
Russia and China will see the usa crumble and will use that distraction to widen their borders; china to hawaii and russia west. They will not attack here because they will see behind every blade of grass is a gun. Why interfere when your enemy is making a mistake or is fully distracted by mutiny? Sure Russians will supply rebels here on both sides with guns while china supplies other items. The mexicans will all return home and canada will will be busy reuniting their coasts. Cuba will side with russia and become a powerhouse, powder keg.usa territories like liberal puerto rico and the bahamas will be russianized.
Is always about how to butcher the remainder, isn’t it?
That’s an interesting thought. Which nations re-colonize the Americas? Do England and France return to the Caribbean to their old islands for strategic purposes? Do they return to the US proper under the auspices of UN peacekeeping and a chance to scoop up unprotected strategic goodies?
Does Canada cross over to secure a buffer zone? Canada might have to close their borders to keep American refugees out and fighting off their soil. I bet they would become a thriving smuggling route into the US and a place where fighters rest and refit before going back into the fray. Lots of opportunity for business and espionage in the Great White North.
Same with Mexico, but much more violent and likely to become a big anti-white danger zone if the reconquista happens in the southwest. I don’t think all the hispanics will go home. I think a lot of them would migrate to majority hispanic areas to be safe. As long as they can find peace, food, and work, I think they’ll stay up here.
Canada and Mexico and Bermuda and the Bahamas and Puerto Rico all start to seem like convenient places for arms and fighters and supplies to start flowing into the US for this fight. The US has a hard time stopping the flow of arms and drugs now. Imagine this situation. A lot of people are poised to get very rich.
China and Russia have an interest in seeing us split up. North Korea might have a ball sending aid to the nation that fucked with them for nearly 70 years. Iran would be happy to aid anti-US rebels. Maybe every ethnic group could reach back to their nations of origin for aid? Koreans and Chinese and Turks and Russians, etc all being armed by their homelands to carve out their piece of the pie.
gilberts,
I don’t even know where to begin to rejoin this conversation, LOL. I suppose I’ll start with our agreement on China. I think they can best be summed up as a real fucking problem for the continuance of America as a 50 state nation. I don’t think they have the ability, even in a weakened America, to project power beyond the Rockies. That’s worst case. I do worry about EMP, and not without reason.
You hit upon a couple of very salient points with respect to Russia. I do believe they can make a good case as the last bastion for white Christians in the world. I hate bringing up religious prophecy into the equation, but it’s been mentioned by yours truly that both Kiev and a consecrated Russia play some role in the survival of Christianity.
I believe, again with good reason, that the recent intrigue in the SOUTHCOM AoR is extremely important in terms of placement of pawns on the future global battlefield. I believe at the outset of any conflict between America and ChiCom/Russia, they will be allied. I don’t see that as anything but a tenuous relationship at best. I would not in the least bit be surprised if Russia actively encouraged (along with the ChiComs) a breakup of America, only to realize some error along the way. To wit: Plans are nothing, planning is everything.
Ultimately, I do expect a reinvigorated, Christian Russia to play a part in the preservation of a traditional component of America. It will likely be the Southeast, and I strategically relocated based on a lot of thought after my previous experiences.
It would be a mess. I could easily see 6-8 new “fiefdoms” arise from the ashes of 50 State America, some of which would be mere vassals to external interests. I could go on and on here.
I think that those regions with favorable geography, natural resources, industrial/refining capacity, infrastructure, and the means to defend all of the above to be the only areas of America I’d live. The only place in CONUS that met all of my criteria was E of the Mississippi and W of the Appalachians.
I voted with my feet 10 years ago, as did many, many other objective thinkers from the DC area. I took a pay cut to do it and never looked back. Mark my words, DC/MD/VA will be Ground Zero, and that’s without looking at the utter hubris that fuels that city. Pride goeth before the fall and the Beltway with millions of Fugees would be a death trap. One tank of gas at best would put them on foot in terrain too rugged for fatties.
NYC will likely be the last holdout for the establishment, Anglophile interests, and perhaps even the UK or other Western Euro govts.
We should continue this discussion later. I’m all over the place, trying to get 100 breadcrumbs out there in one comment.
Artie.. (Said in jest of course)
There are some problems with that which aren’t trivial. If Mary is still online maybe she can post a link to a very interesting and quite possible outcome. I have no talent for posting links.
First is ownership of the U.S.. Every single printed dollar, bond and leveraged I.O.U denominated in dollars is a claim on the people, land, resources, roads and rails in america. These people are the same ones committing international genocide and they aren’t going to take kindly to the modern equivalent of a whiskey rebellion. Russia is now owned by the same groups that own us. That’s why they hated and murdered the Tzar.
China won’t have to invade. As part owners (Our T-bills) They will be invited to send as many slaves over in those containers as possible to make up for the shortage of latin slaves because we will make lousy slaves. None of us has been hardened since birth like they have and we whine and snivel about every little thing. We have no rights. They never existed. The only rights anyone has are those one can aquire through force or persuasion.
They have weapons of mass destruction for removing large groups of resisters in the rural areas. I suggest you research fuel-air bombs. We perfected them in Nam and even talked about it openly at first. Designer bacteria and viruses, Sarin gas.
I just checked my limited records and can’t find the congressional forced civilian labor act, but they have every right to enslave us under the guise of national emergency.
We may complain about our roads being in disrepair but they are still valuable because of the connectivity. Our rails have been quietly upgraded and are world class. The Copper mine in Butte Mt. is still said to be the richest hill in the world.
The mexican cartels have cells all over america to take over the enforcement of slave laws.
The only war we can win is the one directly in front of us to win locally but it’s only temporary.
A good 1hr 30 min. video on bitchute is worth watching. Eustace Mullins, “The Neo-Zionist order- who rules our rulers? It’s been taken down most other places.
Napalm sticks to kids!
I hated that song in POW training too!
Flea…
P was right… this is one hell of a discussion.
“I just checked my limited records and can’t find the congressional forced civilian labor act, but they have every right to enslave us under the guise of national emergency.
We may complain about our roads being in disrepair but they are still valuable because of the connectivity. Our rails have been quietly upgraded and are world class.”
Listen… if folks can still get into their old libraries and copy some old maps, it will pay off for them. I have a little booklet called the “Bridges and Roads of Southeast Missouri” my father put together long ago and I’ve decided knowing where all the old iron bridges are located on those rerouted rivers might come in handy.
I also found a book by a civil engineer, written in the early 1960s, laying out the electrical grid and the placement of the lines. It included detailed geography AND geological survey data. Nice pages to have copies of.
Books are good things to hold in one’s hand on a nice sunny day. A book like that? Old, unwanted? If lost? The library might charge you five bucks. I paid 7 for that one.
If they’d wanted more than 20, I could have gone home and found it, I suppose.
I hope this is the link you wanted me to post because it was a bitch to find again. The military analysis of the skirmish between the El Chapo Cartel and the Mexican Federales in Sinaloa?
https://www.traditionalright.com/the-view-from-olympus-a-big-win-for-4gw/
Paula is right. This turned out to be a really interesting thread. I have to get busy or I would comment on a couple of things. Maybe if it keeps going I will later today after dinner. We are not football watchers around here.
Edit: I think this is related:
Virginia Senate Bill No. 64: Declaring Tactical Training Illegal
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2019/11/27/herschel-it-begins-2/
Click the link at WRSA and read the bill. Some think that it is going to start in Virginia
Thanks Mary.
The Herschel link is interesting. In it the writer says “Leaving aside proving intent” paraphrased somewhat. They no longer have to prove intent to arrest you and let you rot in jail or go broke over legal fees.
“Did we think it merely a coincidence that all armies, everywhere, that had actually fought anyone had been made up solely of men? But these were the last days of the U.S.A., and the absurd, the silly, the impossible were in charge and normal people were expected to keep their mouths shut. It was a time, as Roger Kimball said, of “experiments against reality.”” From Chapter 1 of Victoria…
I read Victoria as it was released…
Found it.
U.S. Army civilian inmate labor program. The’re coming to take you away ha ha. Don’t remember who sang that.
When spouse was naturalized, the govt had them sign a form that explained their duties as a citizen. This was before we got to the actual formal citizenship event. This form stated they, as a new American, understood the govt could, in time of emergency, take them away to anyplace they needed them, force them to work in any capacity they wanted them, for as long as the govt felt like it, and they had no right to resist or refuse. This was sort of shocking, because at no point in my education and general upbringing was I informed I was an indentured servant-in-waiting. Am I naive to think this would upset the Founders?
http://www.disastercenter.com/laworder/laworder.htm
Here’s the list of executive orders that let the govt take you away, take your stuff away, send you to work, and keep you as long as they want.
Gilberts.
Wasn’t aware of “The Talk” for new citizens, thanks for the heads up.
The only rights we have are those we can take through force or persuasion.
gilbert,
when did your wife become a citizen?
my wife became a citizen in 1989 & she said she doesn’t remember anything like that–
About 10 years ago.
flea,
i just scanned the summaries w/o clicking but it seems like they are talking about using current prisoners–
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us+army+civilian+inmate+labor+program&t=h_&ia=web
Red.
Yes, current inmates. When they haul us in on fake or no charges we will then qualify as current. Sort of like the depression era sheriffs rounding up farm labor for a fee.
I dreamed about this long ago and far away. I dreamed that all “suspected” patriots were rounded up and taken to the big underground prisons/dormitories built in the Rockies, between Denver and the Academy, I dreamed/imagined?
In a big auditorium, the faceless captors demanded those who had “served” in the military turn themselves in. (There was no reason given why former military were specified.)
Then, a giant flag dropped front and center and the first notes of the National Anthem played and it was obvious exactly who the former military people were because they came to attention and almost saluted.
It was a bit of a hokey dream but there was so much detail I wrote it all down. Almost 30 years ago. (In the dream?) I crossed the Mississippi at Perryville with the new prisoners in an old paddleboat. Like they use now for the silly riverboat rides. In my dream (and in my notes?) Crossing the river is the longest part, except for the auditorium sequence. (Nick was still in the Air Force then, so he was gonna rescue me in the dream. I was POSITIVE he would. I’m telling you, my dreams were vivid OR my notes were a lot better 30 years ago. Or both.)
Am finally unpacking those old boxes and finding shit from the Ancient of Days, it seems.
Just saw the continued closed door discussion here and thought I’d chime in.
And, I forgot to mention how thankful I am for rayray. LOL… Hadda do it, EC.
“Likely not ICBMs, but tactical and/or underwater moles along the coastlines.”
Remember this (Feb 2010)?
Mystery Missile: Launch of Unknown Missile Caught on Tape in California
Edit: “I wouldn’t be shocked to see W Euro trash govts. relocate to NYC.” Commanded to take the refugees in by the UNITED NATIONS, which apparently has squatters rights in our country.
Um… the missile in 2010? Wasn’t that from a Chinese sub?
gilberts,
It was a grim purchase, I take no joy in preparing for what was in your post…I just want to be left alone…but if not – prepared and armed determined defiance will be my end game.
I missed both your examples…interesting. I can’t take smarmy smug Mahr…sounds like he is getting nervous in the Leftist service…good. I would think the loons at CNN better get ready to be living in the bullseye when the SHTF.
I have a friend I have been urging to get prepped up for years, he always thought I was over reacting…especially on the Civil War point, now he is arming up and stashing food.
I read this lengthy discussion with more enthusiasm than I skimmed the original post. That, of course, is the best part of visiting TBP early in the morning. To see which posts really inspired the “thinkers” and “doers” instead of the banter.
Yes, yes, yes… I know I banter. But, not if there’s good stuff to read.
I know people, some people that will be getting thermal scopes for Xmas…..
“to send hit teams around the world to finish off those billionaires who managed to fly the coop before the doors were secured.”
Everyone in a fight has their own battles. Neighborhoods will fight locally, young and able singles will fight Statewide, former marines will fight nationally, patriots in the govt will fight internationally and yes these billionaires running like rats will be hunted down, but not by any regulars in a neighborhood. Most people have never even travelled internationally….
Sure. But at the same time, a guy can dream, can’t he?
I always figured a site with all the names of these rich idiots and facts about what they have done should be on the web. I figure one day there will be many bored and angry ex-soldiers with nothing to do. Locally I figured out (many years ago)most of the population doesn’t think much or prepare in any way. and I think many will die. Cities will be the worst for this.
“Hartmann has been a vegetarian since he was a teenager.”
I am so fucking surprised.
What liberal democrat fucktard wrote this tripe?
When you read and pay attention to a writers way of messaging you can clearly and easily see their stance and bias.
“Instead of the North and the South fighting each other, it’s now Free Speech TV viewers facing off with their Fox News–viewing neighbors.”
“What they’re not pointing out, though, is that it won’t just be a war of white supremacists and Trump cultists against the rest of us”
“On the other hand, if the oligarchs decide to promote an actual “hot” Civil War on the forces of democracy—as Southern oligarchs did in 1861”
That last word, “us” clearly puts himself siding against the right, Trump, and fox news. The only problem is he was force-fed what the right entails. Seems the right is the tolerant, patient, open minded deep thinkers whereas the CNN leftist crowd, like this author is close minded, and brands others what he was easily brainwashed into believing and falls for the most simplistic narratives out there that correlate to one item he believes in; whether it be a rainbow and unicorn, or tree huggin it matters not. They find one reason to brand themselves against a moral, patriotic, gun owning side and they pounce. He brands the South as Oligarchs in the first civil war as if it were their fault. Takes two to tango dumbass.
In his brain washed cucked mind he really believes it is the right that have been compromised by the corps as oligarchs. He is so simple minded he cannot even grasp the facts that 90% of the left’s disposition falls apart using second grade common sense. The left is being used as cannon fodder from govts, foreign govts, politicians, all the way down to the local dog walkers association. The left is so weak minded they still believe in “Socialism can work”. While I agree corporations (Oligarchs) have too much power and especially tech (they own our data and our daily lives) he could not resist on bashing the right using a false centuries old narrative. He just needs to crawl back in bed with his boyfriend and sleep in before going to his Starbucks shift.
It takes a great deal of hubris to try and pin the emergent strife on the “provocation(s) of the Alt-Right”.
Has The State not provoked the people with their never ending surveillance state and complete rejection of Heritage Americans in order to repopulate the country with third world refugees? What about the social engineering of the academic media complex that routinely humiliates and ridicules people who simply prefer to live their lives without being told what to think and say? That’s not a provocation? And how do you write a piece like this without mentioning Antifa?
Is there a conflict brewing? You bet, has been for a long time and the side fomenting this crisis are the people running the show. This isn’t as if they’ve been doing a great job protecting the Nation and serving it’s people and we’re just impossible to please, they suck at it and give us 24/7/365 coverage of their incompetence and arrogance to humiliate us further. 9/11? Who could have prevented it? The people that extort trillions in dollars from the people every year in order to do exactly that job. What happens when they fail? They all get promotions and a stack of new laws to further enslave us and demands for even more money to build up their police state and enforce their will- whatever end that portends.
This isn’t about left or right, liberal or conservative, black or white, jew or gentile, it’s about the truth versus an empire of lies.
Has The State not provoked the people with their never ending surveillance state and complete rejection of Heritage Americans?
I think the State has done exactly what the State does when the State populates its corridors with Vermin such as what stalks the Halls of Congress now.
Hosea 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Do you know what the rest of that prophecy is? or what the chapter says?
Hosea 4 King James Version (KJV)
4:1 Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel: for the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.
2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.
3 Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.
4 Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest.
5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and
***”I will destroy thy mother. The Complete Jewish Bible version is really a lot more interesting… see below for that one.)
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
8 They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity.
9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.
10 For they shall eat, and not have enough: they shall commit whoredom, and shall not increase: because they have left off to take heed to the Lord.
11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.
12 My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.
13 They sacrifice upon the tops of the mountains, and burn incense upon the hills, under oaks and poplars and elms, because the shadow thereof is good: therefore your daughters shall commit whoredom, and your spouses shall commit adultery.
14 I will not punish your daughters when they commit whoredom, nor your spouses when they commit adultery: for themselves are separated with whores, and they sacrifice with harlots: therefore the people that doth not understand shall fall.
15 Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend; and come not ye unto Gilgal, neither go ye up to Bethaven, nor swear, The Lord liveth.
16 For Israel slideth back as a backsliding heifer: now the Lord will feed them as a lamb in a large place.
17 Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.
18 Their drink is sour: they have committed whoredom continually: her rulers with shame do love, Give ye.
19 The wind hath bound her up in her wings, and they shall be ashamed because of their sacrifices.
King James Version (KJV)Public Domain
From Bible Gateway…
Hosea 4 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
4 Hear the word of Adonai,
people of Isra’el!
For Adonai has a grievance
against the inhabitants of the land:
there is no truth, no faithful love
or knowledge of God in the land;
2
only swearing and lying, killing and stealing
and committing adultery!
They break all bounds, with one blood crime
following another.
3
Therefore the land mourns,
and everyone living there languishes,
wild animals too, and the birds in the air;
even the fish in the sea are removed.
4
But no one should quarrel or rebuke,
because your people are having to quarrel with the cohen. (does this translate to “law”)
5
Therefore you will stumble by day,
and the prophet will stumble with you at night.
***“I will destroy your mother.
6
My people are destroyed for want of knowledge.
Because you rejected knowledge,
I will also reject you as cohen for me.
Because you forgot the Torah of your God,
I will also forget your children.
7
The more they increased in number,
the more they sinned against me.
I will change their glory into shame.
8
They feed on the sin of my people
and are greedy for their crimes.
9
But the cohen will fare
no better than the people;
I will punish him for his ways
and pay him back for his deeds.
10
They will eat but not have enough
and consort with whores but have no children,
because they stopped listening to Adonai.
11
Whoring and wine, both old and new,
take away my people’s wits.
12
My people consult their piece of wood,
their diviner’s wand speaks to them;
for the spirit of whoring makes them err,
they go off whoring, deserting their God.
13
They sacrifice on the mountain peaks
and offer incense on the hills
under oaks, poplars and pistachio trees;
because they give good shade.
Therefore your daughters behave like whores,
And your daughters-in-law commit adultery.
14
I won’t punish your daughters when they act like whores,
or your daughters-in-law when they commit adultery;
because the men are themselves going off with whores
and sacrificing with prostitutes.
Yes, a people without understanding
will come to ruin.”
15
If you, Isra’el, prostitute yourself,
still Y’hudah has no need to incur such guilt.
Don’t go to Gilgal or up to Beit-Aven,
and don’t swear, “As Adonai lives.”
16
For Isra’el is stubborn as a stubborn cow;
will Adonai now feed them like a lamb in a big pasture?
17
Efrayim is joined to idols;
let him alone!
18
When they finish carousing, they start their whoring;
their rulers deeply love dishonor.
19
The wind will carry them off in its wings
and their sacrifices bring them nothing but shame.
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
Copyright © 1998 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea+4&version=CJB
And Yoji Berry? FYI? Cohen does not translate to LAW exactly.
In fact, apparently the Jewish “law” resides in the priest, who is of the tribe of Levi. Not the pants.
Traditionally, kohanim (the plural of cohen or kohen) get special honors in synagogue, but also are subject to certain restrictions. Like Levites, who are descendants of the priests’ assistants and also singled out for certain honors, kohanim are descendants of the tribe of Levi. Many people with the surname Cohen, Kahn, Katz (and their various spellings) are kohanim, and many with the surname Levi or Levy are Levites.
A genetic study in 1997 determined that large numbers of people who believe they are kohanim, whether they are Ashkenazi or Sephardic, share a group of markers on the Y chromosome. To find out how to be tested for this gene, contact the Center for Kohanim in Jerusalem.
Note where the quoted prophecy is marked as “direct” quote in the Jewish Bible, below. Is interesting how it modifies the context slightly AND it is also interesting to compare the language and tone regarding whoredom and harlotry.
Edit: Who’s the dumbass now? I forgot about the email.
Logic and reason seem an unheard-of thing for many in our society. About half the country actually supports the Democrats. but they don’t think too hard about what they stand for.
The only thing I agree with in this article is Jimmy Carter’s opinion on the Citizens United decision. The rest amounts to Progressive talking points.
War and Militia fantasies and playing Risk VS. what actually happens when TPTB destroy and or occupy a country are not the same.
Maybe I’m tainted but can’t help it. Fox and CNN won’t be covering this collapse so don’t expect any reluctance on the part of the enemy to use any means available according to the value of the target. Half the readers here are unwilling to find out who the enemy is and how they operate. I watched as we methodically flattened the entire city of Cholon because they were harboring VC. I read the reports of Pilots who dropped Fuel air bombs over huge swaths of delta jungle. I’ve also been on the receiving end. When you are surrounded and have to watch as the enemy methodically approaches to 30 or 40 yards at night(Yes they wore black jammies) because you only have 4 clips apiece it spoils rambo fantasies. I also pay close attention to how they do it in the middle east and africa. How they did it in the Soviet Union. How they do it economically without dropping a bomb. The only rule is “What Rules?”
Guns and gasoline. The problem we face is recognizing the enemy when they don’t wear a uniform. The media will be used against anyone who resists. I wonder if one day this A.I stuff and the people who wield it will be a larger problem.
I find the comments more insightful than many of the articles on this site. There are a few exceptions which keep me coming back. This isn’t one of them.
Only from certain commenters like those I zeroed in on above. Is how I am able to convince people I know something.