In this article — ( Here: Science Based Medicine ) –– Dr. David Gorski employs his expert understanding of Medicine & Science to rebut each of the 18 reasons not to get vaccinated given by Christian Elliot (in his now viral article). What? You didn’t think they could be refuted? Dr. Gorski’s arguments seem to have at least some merit. A few points will be terribly difficult to refute.
Dr.Gorski has credentials a mile long. He has also been accused of some rather heinous acts, also a mile long. You can read about both, ( here ).
The original“18 Reasons” article can be found ( here ). You might want to reference it to read the details of each argument. In this post I will only be listing the main headline of each of the eighteen points.
My goal here (other than getting to 300) is not to be a Shitflinger. We here pride ourselves on being able to discern BOTH sides of an argument. I have not yet seen a point-by-point debate of Christian Elliot’s 18 reasons. Now you have it. In some instances you might wonder if Mr. Elliot was bullshitting us. Some of you might even decide to get the shot after reading this! Good luck to you.
Hopefully, negative reactions to this article (if any) will be more cogent than, “This is a BULLSHIT article, Stuckfuk!!“. Okaaay? So, let’s go ……….
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#1: VACCINE MAKERS ARE IMMUNE FROM LIABILITY
This is a half-truth that antivaxxers just love. It’s a half-truth in that, yes, the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 did require that claims for vaccine injury go through a special “Vaccine Court”, setting up a system called the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP or VICP), with the compensation fund funded by a tax on each dose of vaccine.
However, the reason for this act was that there were so many dubious lawsuits being filed in the wake of the scare over the DPT vaccine in the 1980s that there was a real fear that vaccine manufacturers would simply stop supplying vaccines to the US due to liability concerns.
Moreover, as I’ve discussed many times, the Vaccine Court is actually an easier court for complainants than standard civil court. The standards of evidence are, as has been described, 50% and a feather, the court allows “theories of causation” that no regular court would allow, and there are certain “table injuries” known to be caused by vaccines for which compensation is automatic. Even better for complainants, win or lose, the Court pays reasonable court costs. Moreover, if complainants fail, they can still take their case to federal civil court. The law only mandates that they first go through the Vaccine Court.
I also like to point out that lawyers really, really, really hate the Vaccine Court, not because its evidentiary standards are as easy can be for a court, but because they want really big payouts (and their nice cut of those payouts) and are willing to lose a bunch of cases if they can, every so often, hit the jackpot. Certainly, they seem to prefer gambling in hopes of a huge judgment or settlement to working on cases that guarantee they’ll be paid for their billable hours and expenses. (How boring.)
Also, even though it tends to give parents the benefit of the doubt and allow somewhat more questionable injuries to be compensated than a regular civil court would, the Vaccine Court does generally do a pretty good job (occasional exceptions aside) of sticking to the science. That means it doesn’t compensate for “vaccine-induced autism”, because there is no good scientific evidence that vaccines can cause autism.
I also can’t help but note that Mr. Elliot is ignorant, too. I’d be more concerned that COVID-19 vaccines, because they are not yet fully FDA approved and are being distributed under an emergency use authorization (EUA), aren’t even covered by the NCVIA, but rather a more restrictive system. Mr. Elliot did mention the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP), but apparently didn’t really know its significance, and vaccine advocates actually want COVID-19 vaccines to be under the VICP.
#2: THE CHECKERED PAST OF THE VACCINE COMPANIES
I’ve had my problems with Moderna and its overenthusiastic promotion of its mRNA technology, but it’s actually ended up doing much better than I had expected. In any event, Mr. Elliot asks: “Given the free pass from liability, and the checkered past of these companies, why would we assume that all their vaccines are safe and made completely above board?”
First, I note my response to #1. These companies do not have a “free pass”. Second, no one denies that pharmaceutical companies have, from time to time, not been the best companies in the world. Yes, some of them have paid large judgments and settlements, albeit not for vaccines.
However, Mr. Elliot intentionally ignores the fact that the vaccine safety monitoring system in place for COVID-19 vaccines is, because of the unprecedented level of the crisis and the release of so many millions of doses of vaccine in such a short period of time before full FDA approval, quite remarkable in how well it’s doing.
Adverse events are regularly reported (and regularly weaponized by antivaxxers like Mr. Elliot, even when they are incredibly unlikely to have been caused by the vaccine), and the safety monitoring system has picked up adverse events that are literally one-in-a-million, such as cerebral venous sinus thromboses, with the FDA acting on them rapidly to issue a pause in the use of the vaccine associated with the adverse events.
It is not as though we are, as Mr. Elliot seems to be implying, just trusting the word of pharmaceutical companies and vaccine manufacturers. They are under intense scrutiny, not just by government regulatory agencies but by the press, and even in normal times there are multiple vaccine safety monitoring systems, one passive and multiple active.
Moreover, all the current vaccines for which the FDA has issued EUAs have completed phase 1, 2, and 3 clinical trials, with the number of patients in the phase 3 trials numbering in the many tens of thousands total between the vaccines.
These vaccines are very likely ultimately to receive full FDA approval; it’s just that, in the middle of a pandemic, there hasn’t been enough time to complete the full monitoring process. Meanwhile, it’s not as though the FDA and government oversight agencies haven’t kept an eye on vaccine makers and their claims, such as when AstraZeneca got slapped down for issuing efficacy estimates for its vaccine based on outdated data.
As for the lack of experience in vaccine development cited by Mr. Elliot for Johnson & Johnson and Moderna, yes, Moderna is a startup, but J&J is a very large pharmaceutical company that’s been around for a long time and has developed and manufactured a huge number of pharmaceutical and medical device products.
I’ll finish here by noting that Mr. Elliot repeats the claim that the J&J vaccine “contains tissues from aborted fetal cells”. No, it does not, and the claim that vaccines contain “tissues” from aborted fetuses or contain “aborted fetal cells” is a common antivax trope based on the use of cell lines derived from fetuses aborted 50 or 60 years ago to make virus stock for vaccine manufacturing. Even the Catholic Church states that these vaccines are acceptable for Catholics to use, and it has said the same about COVID-19 vaccines.
#3: THE UGLY HISTORY OF ATTEMPTS TO MAKE CORONAVIRUS VACCINES
I note that Mr. Elliot is using another favorite antivaccine distortion, namely that mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines are “gene therapy”. It is true that, early on in the development of COVID-19 vaccines, there were concerns, based on the issues listed by Mr. Elliot, that the phenomenon on antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) might preclude the development of COVID-19 vaccines. These issues had stymied the development of vaccines against the original SARS and MERS coronaviruses, after all.
However, as I like to say, it is now April 2021, not April 2020, and we have lots of data, both from the phase 3 clinical trials of the currently authorized vaccines and from 190 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines administered in the US alone that demonstrate this does not happen at a rate detectable by the same vaccine safety monitoring system that has detected one-in-a-million adverse events after COVID-19 vaccines. Mr. Elliot also ignored later science that showed that ADE is a problem mainly in vaccines that do not produce high enough levels of neutralizing antibody.
And, again, hundreds of millions of doses of vaccine have been administered worldwide, and this problem has simply not been observed.
It’s actually a very common antivaccine tactic to focus on a potential problem with a vaccine considered early on in its development and then to ignore all the subsequent science that shows the problem not to have been observed, and Mr. Elliot doubles down on this nonsense in #4 before moving on:
#4: THE “DATA GAPS” SUBMITTED TO THE FDA BY THE VACCINE MAKERS
Again, no such problems were observed in the phase 3 clinical trials, and, again, Mr. Elliot ignores the data after hundreds of millions of doses of vaccine that show that this is not a problem. I guess if you tell the big lie often enough…
Mr. Elliot also bemoans the lack of data on this. I’m seeing a pattern here. Yes, there was or no data on these issues at the time of the EUA submission. However, to say there is “no data” now, in April 2021, is extremely dishonest and ignores all the experience and safety monitoring after millions upon millions of doses.
For instance, evidence is mounting that these vaccines do prevent transmission and mortality, and we know that the protection lasts at least six months, and likely much longer. We also know that vaccine-induced immunity is probably more potent than the immunity that comes after natural infection.
Meanwhile, the hundreds of millions of doses have not turned up safety signals in the individuals about which Mr. Elliot is so very, very concerned. I also find it odd that lack of data on people younger than age 18 or older than 55, in pregnant or lactating mothers, or people with autoimmune conditions or immunocompromised individuals would be a deterrent to Mr. Elliot receiving the vaccine. He’s none of those things, right?
#5: “No Access to the Raw Data from the Trials”
Yes, Mr. Elliot is channeling The BMJ‘s antivaccine associate editor Peter Doshi, whose affiliation with The BMJ continues to do damage when he writes deceptive blog posts like the one cited by Mr. Elliot. Mr. Doshi’s claims are deceptive, as John Skylar notes:
Before you read that, I want to emphasize that Dr. Doshi is just wrong. He claims that the clinical trials for the vaccines contained a design flaw that has made them miss a large number of cases of COVID-19. Specifically, he believes it is inappropriate that they measured only confirmed cases of COVID-19 rather than looking at suspected cases of COVID-19. His argument is that if you look at suspected cases, you see a vaccine efficacy of only about 19%, where looking at confirmed cases gives an efficacy of 95%.
The thing is, this analysis is wildly flawed. Dr. Doshi conveniently ignores the fact that many of the suspected cases turned out to be negative for SARS-CoV-2 infection. So many, in fact, that it would suggest that PCR tests only correctly detect 5% of tested cases. We know this isn’t the case.
While it is probable that some positive cases were missed, it is unlikely that this is a very substantial number.
It turns out that removing these cases has no material effect on the efficacy estimates.
To be honest, I’m slightly torn here, as I noted at the time. Yes, access to raw data is desirable. Transparency is generally a good thing in science. However, in the case of any clinical trial, be it for a COVID-19 vaccine or any other drug, the question is: “When?” In general, clinical trial raw data are not made public at least until after the clinical trial is completed, sometimes not at all, our trust being placed in government regulatory agencies to evaluate the trial data.
Maybe that should change as a result of the pandemic. Be that as it may, Peter Doshi’s demands for “transparency” struck me as very self-serving in that there are a huge contingent of people like him (and Mr. Elliot) out there, waiting to go through the clinical trial raw data with a fine tooth comb looking for even the smallest anomalies (of which there will always be at least a few in any large clinical trial, given that human beings are not perfect and no clinical trial is perfect) that they can use to sow fear, uncertainty, and doubt about the vaccines, whether justified or not. None of this changes my assessment of #5 as deceptive and, even if valid, superseded by much more recent data.
#6: NO LONG-TERM SAFETY TESTING
This is yet another common antivaccine trope that’s been used about vaccines as long as I can remember, even long before the pandemic. It’s tempting just to respond that, to antivaxxers, no amount of “long term safety testing” is ever enough to convince them that a vaccine is safe.
That being said, in fairness I must note that it is true that these vaccines have only been distributed for four months and were developed in less than a year, even as I note that the technologies behind the vaccines (mRNA-based and adenovirus-based) had been in development for a couple of decades before that. I note that anti-GMO “journalist” Paul Thacker made similar claims about “no long term testing” and, when called on it, really had to stretch to find any examples whatsoever of long-term side effects from vaccines, whose adverse reactions, when they occur, usually occur within a few weeks.
Let’s just say that the examples chosen were rare and in special cases, such as immunocompromised patients. Given the data we have now, the highly unlikely possibility of rare late side effects cropping up months from now is not a reason, in the middle of a pandemic, to avoid a vaccine against a disease that is killing millions and disabling even more. Basically, this is a variation of a favorite antivaccine trope, the Nirvana fallacy, in which it is argued that if a vaccine isn’t perfectly safe and perfectly effective it’s crap.
#7: NO INFORMED CONSENT
This is utter BS. When the vaccines were given EUAs, there were data from tens of thousands of clinical trial participants. We now have data from close to 200 million people who have received the vaccines. We know a lot now about these vaccines, and more and more data are being published every week.
Basically, Mr. Elliot is parroting a version of a favorite antivaccine tactic, one I like to call “misinformed refusal” (as opposed to informed consent), in which the uncertainties and harms are grossly exaggerated based on misinterpretation of science, bad science, pseudoscience, and just plain lies, and the benefits dramatically downplayed or denied.
#8: UNDER-REPORTING OF ADVERSE REACTIONS AND DEATH
First of all, no, it is quite simply not true that “only 1%” of adverse reactions are reported to VAERS. That’s a study frequently cherry picked by antivaxxers. Moreover, VAERS is not the be-all and end-all of vaccine safety monitoring anyway; there are multiple and redundant active monitoring systems as well. Also, as a passive reporting system, is prone to gaming by lawyers and antivaxxers, who love to imply causation from what might or might not even be correlation.
I’ve written about how antivaxxers have, like Mr. Elliot, been weaponizing VAERS reports against COVID-19 vaccines by implying what are almost certainly coincidences are, in fact, caused by the vaccine. (And, no, Bell’s palsy was almost certainly not caused by the vaccine.)
Seriously, if your cherry picking of studies and “analysis” of the VAERS database lead you to conclude that there are as many as 220,000 unreported deaths after COVID-19 vaccination that no one’s detected, you are as innumerate as those who claim that medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the US.
#9: THE VACCINES DO NOT STOP TRANSMISSION OR INFECTION
This is getting repetitive, isn’t it? (Antivax listicles like this frequently do.)
Again, Mr. Elliot is focusing only on the clinical trial results showing that the vaccines were very good at preventing symptomatic disease from COVID-19; they were not designed to demonstrate whether they stopped transmission or infection. As before, Mr. Elliot is ignoring data that has been published since the EUAs were granted for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines that demonstrate that the vaccines do appear to prevent infection and reduce asymptomatic transmission.
Are you seeing a pattern in Mr. Elliot’s disinformation? I am. Here’s a hint to Mr. Elliot. It is April 2021, NOT November 2020. Do try to keep up with the literature. (He won’t, of course.)
#10: PEOPLE ARE CATCHING COVID AFTER BEING FULLY VACCINATED
This one is so dumb that it’s hard for me to write much about it without getting really sarcastic. Of course there are people who catch COVID-19 after being fully vaccinated. No vaccine is 100% effective; so we always knew that this would happen.
Again, this is the Nirvana fallacy, in which antivaxxers suggest that if a vaccine isn’t 100% effective it’s crap. What we do know is that the vaccines are very effective, much more so than scientists had hoped.
It turns out that such “breakthrough cases” are rare, but, of course, when hundreds of millions are receiving the vaccine, millions are falling ill with COVID-19, there will be some breakthrough cases. This isn’t Nirvana, and the vaccines aren’t perfect. They are, however, very, very good.
I also note that this is the same sort of gambit that antivaxxers have used since time immemorial about measles, for instance, claiming that if there are vaccinated children who get the measles that must mean that the vaccine doesn’t work.
#11: THE OVERALL DEATH RATE FROM COVID
One wonders if Mr. Elliot would get on an airplane if there were “only” a 0.26% (or 0.1%) of its crashing and killing him. I suspect that he wouldn’t.
In any event, we don’t yet know the true fatality rate, but the case fatality rate (the death rate among people diagnosed with COVID-19) in the US could be as high as 2%. The infection fatality rate, of course, is considerably lower, because that includes all asymptomatic infections.
He’s also doing the usual selfish thing that younger antivaxxers do and ignoring the much, much higher infection and case fatality rate among the elderly. Determining the “true” numbers is challenging, given the changes in the level of screening and diagnosis over time, as well as how the actual CFR and IFR can vary with time and location, but we do know that COVID-19 is much more lethal than influenza.
Naturally, Mr. Elliot assumes that he won’t be on the unlucky end of those statistics, because, as his germ theory denial leads him to believe, he is so much more healthy than you.
#12: THE BLOATED COVID DEATH NUMBERS
Again, the idea that most people die “with” COVID-19 rather than “of” COVID-19 is a conspiracy theory that arose last summer.
Indeed, I had a name for it: the 6% gambit. It’s the claim that “only 6%” of death certificates show COVID-19 as the sole cause of death because “only 6%” don’t also list comorbidities too, such as heart disease.
Again, this is utter nonsense based on a misunderstanding of how death certificates are filled out, in which the primary cause of death might be, for instance, cardiac arrest, but the condition that ultimately led to that cardiac arrest was COVID-19. Or it could be pneumonia as the immediate cause of death, with the pneumonia having been a sequelae of—you guessed it—COVID-19. (If you want a more detailed explanation, here you go.)
#13: FAUCI AND SIX OTHERS AT NIAID OWN PATENTS IN THE MODERNA VACCINE
The source of this claim seems to be Naomi Wolf, who, as anyone who’s encountered her Tweets on Twitter knows, has gone full antivaccine and COVID-19 crank. Indeed, the video was published on Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.’s website.
As for Anthony Fauci owning patents on the Moderna vaccine, my response was: WTF? I did a patent search on Fauci, and his name does turn up on 38 patents, none of them related to COVID-19 vaccines. Some are related to treatments for HIV, and it is those that conspiracy theorists have zeroed in on by combining them with the bogus conspiracy theory that there are HIV sequences in the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein used as the antigen in the mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines.
This is a distortion in that there are short sequences that resemble sequences found in the HIV coding sequence, but the matches are so short as to be insignificant. Lots of genes have similar levels of matching. Some antivaxxers have even falsely claimed that COVID-19 vaccines increase susceptibility to HIV.
As for the NIH claiming joint ownership of the Moderna vaccine, that is true, but doesn’t mean what Mr. Elliot claims it does. Here is a statement from the NIH on the matter:
NIAID scientists created stabilized coronavirus spike proteins for the development of vaccines against coronaviruses, including SARS-CoV-2. Recognizing the importance of these novel immunogens, NIAID has sought patents to preserve the government’s rights to these inventions and to provide incentive for commercial partners to invest the capital and resources needed to advance their development, commercialization, and public use as vaccines.
NIAID has adopted a non-exclusive licensing approach for these patent rights in order to allow multiple vaccine developers to utilize these immunogens in their proprietary vaccine platforms. The mRNA vaccine candidate resulting from NIAID’s collaboration with Moderna, embodied in the material transferred to UNC, is an example of this approach: the stabilized spike protein developed by NIAID investigators is expressed from Moderna’s proprietary mRNA vaccine platform. Responsibility for obtaining regulatory approval of the mRNA vaccine candidate, a product produced and formulated by Moderna, rests with Moderna.
Federal employees listed as inventors on these patent applications assigned their rights to the US government. Accordingly, should the USPTO and other national patent authorities grant the patents, the US government will hold ownership interest in the patents.
According to NIH Director Francis Collins in an interview last May at the Economic Club of Washington, as quoted by Axios:
The bottom line: Many experts anticipate a coronavirus vaccine, once proven safe and effective, would be made as widely available as possible, and that developers aren’t likely to seek big profits from it. Partial federal ownership could be a backstop if those assumptions don’t bear out, but NIH isn’t keen on stepping on industry’s toes.
- “Talking to the companies, I don’t hear any of them say they think this [vaccine] is a money-maker,” Collins said during his Economic Club interview. “I think they want to recoup their costs and maybe make a tiny percentage of increase of profit over that, like single digits percentage-wise, but that’s it. Nobody sees this as a way to make billions of dollars.”
The bottom line is that Fauci does not profit from COVID-19 vaccines, be they the Moderna vaccine or others. He doesn’t own patents on them, and even if he did, as a government employee, he would have signed away the rights to the federal government.
#14: FAUCI IS ON THE HOT SEAT FOR ILLEGAL GAIN-OF-FUNCTION RESEARCH
The “fantastically well-researched documentary”? It’s Plandemic 2 (or, as I like to call it: Plandemic 2: Electric Boogaloo), the sequel to Plandemic, the first COVID-19 conspiracy video to go viral last May featuring antivaccine activist turned COVID-19 conspiracy theorist Judy Mikovits.
Basically, the idea behind the two “documentaries” was that the pandemic was a “plandemic”, planned by global elites. It was also the origin of the conspiracy theory that Fauci helped promote “gain-of-function” to make viruses more deadly.
Again, this conspiracy theory shows a shocking ignorance of how NIH grants are funded. As director of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), Fauci doesn’t dole out the grant money himself. Grant applications go through the standard study section process, where a panel of scientists evaluates the merit of grant applications and then scores them with a priority score, with low scores being better.
The lowest scoring grants are then funded at the institute level until the money runs out. The grant at the heart of this conspiracy theory was indeed for $600,000, and its principal investigator was Peter Daszak, a well-respected virologist. It was not a new grant, but rather year six of a grant that had been funded since 2014. I looked at the RePORTER entry for the grant. The Budget for 2019-2020 was $538,926 direct costs plus $123,054 for indirect costs for a total year six budget of $661,980.
One thing you need to understand about NIH grants is that there are two kinds of renewals, competing and noncompeting renewals. The NIH views, for example, a six year grant as six one-year grants. Each of the one-year segments after the first year are known as noncompeting renewals, because they don’t have to compete with other grant applications. At the end of the grant period, if the investigators want to renew, they have to submit a competing renewal application and go back to the study section.
The point is that a noncompeting renewal is nearly automatic, as long as adequate progress is demonstrated. A competing renewal is not, and this grant was clearly renewed in 2020, because its project end date is listed as June 30, 2025. This is also the grant that was taken away early in the pandemic:
On April 24, the National Institutes of Health terminated a grant for a research project on bat-borne coronaviruses after it was criticized by President Trump and a number of Republican lawmakers. While the grant was held by EcoHealth Alliance, a global environmental health research organization based in New York, it attracted negative attention because part of it supported collaborative activities with the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) in China.
WIV houses a lab equipped to study the most dangerous class of pathogens, and a number of pundits and politicians are now suggesting it accidentally released SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. Though thinly supported, the idea is fueling efforts to focus blame for the COVID-19 pandemic on the Chinese government. Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR), in particular, has cited suspicions about WIV and the actions of Chinese leaders during the pandemic as justifying a hardline stance, which he said this week could include cutting off student visas in technical fields.
So, yes, this grant to Ecohealth Alliance, headed by Peter Daszak, was a collaborative grant with Chinese researchers, but Fauci had nothing to do with granting it, and it was political pressure based on conspiracy mongering that led to its being taken away last April and then reinstated, but with onerous conditions in August.
In any event, the grant was to look for bat coronaviruses at high risk to “cross over” into human populations. The origin of the conspiracy theory was described in this Nature article:
A favorite version of the laboratory-origin stories relies on the fact that SARS-CoV-2 was engineered for gain-of-function studies that were also previously performed with bat SARS-like coronaviruses to understand cross-species transmission risk (Nat. Med. 21, 1508–1513; 2015). The irony is that those gain-of-function studies provided valuable information about the biology of SARS-CoV-2. Gain-of-function research is also subject to intense scrutiny and governmental oversight, precisely because of the high risk involved in conducting it safely; thus, it is extremely unlikely that gain-of-function research on hard-to-obtain coronaviruses (such as bat SARS-like coronaviruses) could occur under the radar. Moreover, there is an extensive history of pathogen emergence by natural means: most novel viral pathogens that have caused epidemics or pandemics in the human population have emerged naturally from a wildlife reservoir. Therefore, the overwhelming conclusion is that this virus, too, found its way into a human host through a series of unhappy accidental encounters with animals.
And:
In April 2020, we witnessed firsthand how misinformation about the virus’ origins can destroy research when President Trump ordered the National Institutes of Health to strip the EcoHealth Alliance of a grant that involved close collaboration with researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The NIH justified the cancellation by saying the research, which investigated bat SARS-like coronaviruses circulating in China and zoonotic spillover, did not align with NIH priorities, which strains credulity. This work produced some of the strongest corroborating evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is a naturally emergent pathogen, as serological surveys demonstrated that people living in close proximity to colonies of bats had antibodies to bat SARS-like coronaviruses. The NIH has since set impossible conditions for restoring the grant, ensuring that this research will never resume.
The bottom line: There’s not much behind this conspiracy theory, and it’s a conspiracy theory that was jumped on by Republican politicians and used first to fear monger about the grant and then to scuttle it, all while trying to blame China by implying that SARS-CoV-2 was bioengineered in a Wuhan lab.
Never mind that sequencing of the virus demonstrated conclusively a long time ago that it was not made in a lab.
#15: THE VIRUS CONTINUES TO MUTATE
And, since it’s related, I’ll list #17:
#17: THE WORLD’S LEADING VACCINOLOGIST IS SOUNDING THE ALARM…
I already discussed this one in detail too. The reason that variants are arising is because so many people are being infected; in other words, there’s so much variation for evolution to work on because it’s running rampant. Moreover, Geert Vanden Bossche is hardly “world-renowned”. Far from it. He hasn’t published much in a long time.
His idea that vaccination will fuel the rise of ever more deadly COVID-19 mutants is very similar to Andrew Wakefield’s claim a year before that mass vaccination against measles would fuel the rise of ever more deadly measles variants that would ultimately lead to mass extinction. (I kid you not.)
In any event, as I discussed coronaviruses actually don’t mutate as quickly as most RNA viruses, and the selective pressure of vaccination on viruses is not the same as the selective pressure of antibiotics on bacteria. In any event, like Wakefield, Vanden Bossche has a competing vaccine idea for COVID-19, and pausing COVID-19 vaccination would simply let the virus circulate longer and more widely, providing grist for even more variants than are emerging now.
#16: CENSORSHIP…AND THE COMPLETE ABSENCE OF SCIENTIFIC DEBATE
I laughed when I read this. It’s basically a clear that this is an appeal to false balance. He’s trying to equate efforts to stamp down disinformation on social media with “censorship”, as cranks often do. In fact, there has been a lot of debate in the scientific community.
#18: I ALREADY HAD COVID
It’s certainly possible that Mr. Elliot has had COVID-19. His symptoms were certainly consistent with it. However, without serology he can’t be sure that he actually had COVID-19. Even if he did have COVID-19, it’s not clear that his immunity is lifelong (in fact, very likely it is not), and, given the emergence of new variants, we have already seen examples of people who have been reinfected. It seems rare, but we don’t know how rare.
More importantly, if the virus does in fact “continue to mutate,” as Mr. Elliot maintains, and actually does produce variants that can evade immunity, then “natural immunity” won’t help him.
More importantly, the CDC does recommend that you should be vaccinated even if you’ve had COVID, because vaccine-induced immunity is less variable than “natural immunity” and there is emerging evidence that it might provide better protection against emerging variants.
And, no, citing Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. claiming that getting the vaccine after having had COVID-19 is dangerous is not a good argument, particularly when he cites someone like Hooman Norchashm, a physician who’s claimed not to be antivaccine but has been promoting the idea that it is very dangerous to be vaccinated against COVID-19 if you have an asymptomatic infection or if you’ve recently had it before. It’s not.
He concludes:
Agree or disagree with me; I’ll treat you no differently. You’re a human just as worthy of love and respect as anyone else. For that I salute you, and I truly wish you all the best. I hope you found this helpful. If so, feel free to share. If not, feel free to (kindly) let me know what didn’t make sense to you and I’d be happy to hear your thoughts too. Stay curious and stay humble.
Too bad Mr. Elliot, although he might be “curious”, is anything but humble. Certainly he isn’t humble enough to realize when he is in over his head, as his “COVID-19 antivax greatest hits” compendium demonstrates.
He’s using his gene therapy denial coupled with his antivaccine views coupled with his entrepreneurial bent to spread COVID-19 disinformation. Sadly, it’s worked. His article has had over 2.6 million views just on his website alone, not counting its republication on RFK Jr.’s website
He doesn’t refute my biggest facts.
– there was no pandemic so everything after (which is A LOT) is suspect.
– why would I take an experimental injection for a fake pandemic, and why are they doing everything to get us to do it?
It is experimental.
– masks don’t work, so why?
– the tests are highly dubious and weird.
That’s enough for me but there’s much more.
Oh, just stop it.
Just because it’s overblown, minor (in terms of deaths), and being used to control the masses doesn’t mean there is no pandemic. There IS a pandemic … just open your eyes.
You are correct there is a pandemic, a PCR pandemic. Death rate is identical before and after Covid-19. But facts don’t matter once the FEAR button has been pushed, hard.
99.8 % recovery rate has meaning. Stats are the same for regular flu except that kids and teenagers were practically not effected.
If you ‘believe’ this a pandemic you’re already lost.
It doesn’t mean shit!
Grab a dictionary ya fucken moran.
Would your comment be considered shit flinging?
Asking for a friend.
Nah. Just a lively TBP discussion.
You are a stuckfuck as always!
A pandemic of ‘cases’…..
I downvoted ya one.
Pandemic of lies and corruption.
A global pandemic of “medical” martial law and totalitarian control.
Consult a fucken dictionary.
Just to be fair; fucken is spelled fucking FYI.
Haha Stucky. If there were a TRUE pandemic, there would be people falling dead all over the place. I’m seeing the homeless population INCREASING, not DECREASING! There is only a pandemic in the minds of the press and gov’t, who have an agenda to push!
And if the virus was a real thing even Zhou Bi Den would have sealed the border
Zhou Bi Den – Wang Ba Dan
Bull Fucking Shit. Stop adding to the LIES!
Grab a fucken dictionary, ya moran.
Regardless of the rhetoric, the facts are the same. Death rates did not increase, therefore it can not be said that a pandemic occurred. The facts of the PCR (I can only call it a con job) testing are that they can not be considered reliable data.
According to the definitions of the words pandemic- widespread, and widespread- over a large geographic area, every single illness is a pandemic.
The real problem with the definition is “a sizeable number of people”. When you’ve got 8.5 billion people even something relatively rare can still affect hundreds of thousands of people which most people would consider a sizeable number, but as a percentage it’s barely discernable.
You’re just stirring shit, you know this is just some made-up name for whatever seasonal flu came around during the 2020 season blown all out of proportion by the very people taking advantage of it. The name doesn’t make it special, neither does the origin, it’s the actions taken to alter the behavior of the vast majority of humanity- the 99.8%- that are left unaffected by it. Healthy people being treated like they are sick is one of the most twisted and evil acts I have ever witnessed in my lifetime.
Anyone with an IQ above room temperature knows it was a complete scam. If you’re still playing along with it, that’s your problem.
And if you want to take medicine for an illness you do not have, by all means, help yourself, odd as that seems to me. Mask up, sanitize to your heart’s desire, hide out, keep away from everybody, but leave the rest of us alone.
Thanks for your consideration.
Is that right?
Here’s what I hear you saying — “Stucky, you must accept accept all 18 reasons for not taking the shot. Do not question any of the reasons. Do not give credence to anyone questioning the 18 reasons. If you do question any of it …. you’re just stirring shit.”
Sorry, man, that ain’t the way I roll.
==============
Wow, that’s a nice Cheap Shot. You’ve been doing a lot of that lately … or, simply ignoring me. I guess I pissed you off somewhere along the line?
I have made it crystal clear, even in this thread, that I won’t take the Shit Shot even if they put a gun to my head.
I know you know that. But, you had to go for the Cheap Shot anyway. You don’t have to concern yourself with me leaving the rest of you alone.
When I say “you’re” I mean those who are, not you.
I don’t think you’ve ever pissed me off. Are you trying to?
You have a streak of the Loki a mile wide, so if I’m not responding it’s because I don’t know if you’re being sincere or just pulling yarn.
Absolutely NOT!!
Sincerely,
Stuchen-loki
This sure is strange shit coming from stucky.
Absolutely not. Were you around for the jacking off a horse thread…this is mild Stuck…not even lukewarm.
There is a pandemic because the WHO changed the definition right before the Swine Flu. WHO’s original definition of a pandemic from May 1, 2009, specified simultaneous epidemics worldwide “with enormous numbers of deaths and illnesses”; this definition was changed in the month leading up to the 2009 swine flu pandemic, removing the severity and high mortality criteria. This allowed the swine flu to be declared a pandemic with only 144 deaths world wide.
They also changed the definitions of vaccine and herd immunity.
In short Stucky there is a pandemic only under the current definition, the stabs are only vaccines under the new definition and herd immunity can now only be truly reached with vaccines not natural infection.
He is not wrong there is no pandemic. When you say there is you are just buying into their narrative.
Forgot to add link to blog with links to all the points made.. must be getting old.
Shutup Jew.
I love our TBP flat earthers……everything is controlled, nothing is “real” and the small hats are god-like in their ability to pull the strings!
So just so we can keep the record straight……The helicopter flying around Mars is not on Mars, but somewhere on the flat earth since we know we never went to the moon so of course, we didn’t go Mars and fly a drone helo. Speak now flat earthers so that TBP will not forget your screen names…… (shit-stirring engaged)
AMEN!!!
At this point you are the ONLY person I’d like to meet at HF’s shindig, if I go. The combined IQ of the rest of these idiots on this thread is lower than one of HF’s cows.
You know the real sign of stupidity? When you’re so fucken stupid you don’t even know you are stupid.
I spit with scorn on all these nuts who walk around like a Peacock thinking they have an open mind. They have the audacity to scorn the OTHER SIDE as being brainwashed, blind, and stupid. But, they are too stupid to realize brainwashing works both ways!
About 1,000 threads here in the past year on Covid. 999 of them singing the same old motherfucking song every goddamned time! “Covid is fake! Covid is fake! Covid is fake! Covid is fake!”, ad absurdium.
Then an article is posted that sings from a different songbook … and rather than consider that maybe, just maybe, the author (not me!!) may have SOME valid points .. they would rather present NOTHING of value, stick their heads in the sand (or, up their asses), and just regurgitate the same old bullshit said thousands of times in the past year. And they think they’re different than the other side? Lunacy!
People always prefer the old songs. That’s where the comfort is.
=====
Went to a farmer’s party to talk Covid with my old friends
A chance to share new truths we learned and play our songs again
When I got to the garden party, I said “I am Stuck!”
No one argued with me, cuz I’m a mean old fuck
They just shit their pants, I learned my lesson well.
Ya can’t reason with assholes, so fuck ’em all to hell!
=====
I may have underestimated the chances of this turning into a Shitfest.
The pot calling the kettle black. A D-lister on the intellectual circuit and more closed minded than Joe Biden pretending to be the prettiest horse at a glue factory.
Faggot pussies!
That “Garden Party” parody ought to get at least ONE up vote.
https://youtu.be/uAHR7_VZdRw
>That “Garden Party” parody ought to get at least ONE up vote.
I got you. Be a go-getter!
It’s good to consider all sides of any question, but that article was just a series of ad hominem attacks.
I read and considered the above article, if for nothing else than “know your enemy .”
I found Dr. David Gorski to be very well spoken articulate and able to pick apart his targets arguments. Nevermind that much of what he did was with links to things like CNN articles for his sources, or that he couldn’t say Mr. Elliot without adding the moniker of anti-vaxxer or conspiracy theorist or any of a number of other adjectives to indicate anything Mr. Elliot said is as crazy and dismissible as any crazy on a street corner with an end of the world sign. He would often say well there is no evidence of something being this way, no its actually THAT way and he would offer zero evidence as well. He was just gracious enough once or twice with phrases like “to be fair it IS a new vaccine so there are no long term studies” to sound reasonable and fair. Then he would blatantly lie for anyone smart enough to see it. Or at least I call this a lie:
I’ll finish here by noting that Mr. Elliot repeats the claim that the J&J vaccine “contains tissues from aborted fetal cells”. No, it does not, and the claim that vaccines contain “tissues” from aborted fetuses or contain “aborted fetal cells” is a common antivax trope based on the use of cell lines derived from fetuses aborted 50 or 60 years ago to make virus stock for vaccine manufacturing.
Let’s dissect that statement: First part here is what you said and you are wrong: “contains tissues from aborted fetal cells”. No, it does not, and the claim that vaccines contain “tissues” from aborted fetuses or contain “aborted fetal cells”
Second part Here are the EXACT SAME WORDS but I have said they mean something different so I am right: based on the use of cell lines derived from fetuses aborted 50 or 60 years ago to make virus stock for vaccine manufacturing.
Now I gather he means that todays vaccines do not contain tissue or cells from newly aborted fetuses, what he is saying however is the virus stock for they use is made from very old aborted fetuses and that makes it okay. Dead baby from 5 or 6 decades ago should be totally acceptable to you because they died so long ago.
Mr. Elliot didn’t say Made from brand new cells, he just said contains aborted fetus cells.
Lo and behold it actually does.
This level of “fact checking” style of debate is everywhere and when you have a well spoken educated credentialed person like Gorski it is very effective. It sounds so reasonable and authoritative that many people can be swayed by it It is intellectual poison for the mind of anyone trying to find their way through this dystopian nightmare.
I read it Stucky, and it’s well written, this is exactly the type of motherfucker who is smart enough to know he is bullshitting and smooth enough to make it sound good. I have a friend who is on the fence she is uncomfortable with the idea of the shot but the rest of her family has done it and now she is being crushed by the pressure to conform. I have been her only source of information on why she shouldn’t do it. She has an appointment with her Dr to get his take on it, I am hoping he is more like Dr Ryan Cole than he is like Dr. Gorski.
Personally (and this opinion is mine alone and does not reflect TBP at all) I think smooth tongued smart motherfuckers ought to be shot before they get anyone else killed.
Huh. You’re not as dumb as BL says you are. J/k.
Good stuff … especially the clarification on the fetal cells. Nice research on your part.
Dr. Gorski is actually a bigger asshole than the article indicates. I left out several paragraphs of his introduction. And right before segueing into each of the 18 points he would have a snarky insulting put down.
I did my best to ignore all that and just focus on what I believed was his expertise … and let that do the talking. He certainly is smooth enough to make it all sound good. Still, if I saw him at HF’s party I’d probably throw a cow-shit Frisbee in his face.
Was just going through some of the links Gorski used in his article… and I was reading this one
I thought I detected a familiar sound of smug pretentious asshat, thats when I looked at who wrote it. MOTHER FUCKER IS CITING HIMSELF as a source for evidence of his statement. That takes some balls, like spelled with a W BAWLS!!
I mean it’s one thing to reference your own earlier article on a a subject and provide a link to said article. Many of the people who submit things to TPB do so and I find it helpful, even more so if the cites are from before I was a regular here. This though… this is a debate where you are citing studies and fact and or research to support your statements, even if you are a leading brain in said subject isn’t it kind of dirty pool to cite yourself?
If you are a leading brain in the subject there ought to be plenty of others who are not you but who agree with what you say. Maybe quote them instead, you self absorbed cock goblin!
It’s just the flu, bruh. Ivectermin will kill this virus, in one day, without risking your life by taking an experimental vaccine Look again . You’ve been had
Sounds like Stucky is your new Dom. You beat out a long line of groveling subs but be warned, he’s a heart breaker. He’ll pack your cute leather clad fudge muffin until he tires of your virtue signaling tripe and leave you the moment something cuter comes along.
Already 6 people — there will be many more, I suppose — agree there is no pandemic???
WE have been talking about this shit for a fucking YEAR! Must be a thousand threads by now. Countries around the world have been, are, and will continue to be in various stages of lockdown. No end in sight. Millions have/are infected. Exactly what the fuck would you call it then?
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??!!
I am no longer afraid, as I was for the first few months, but now I am fucking angry.
That’s exactly how I feel. I’m supposed to trust the people who lied about a flu that while new, and dangerous tthe elderly and sick, was barely a blip and the high death numbers are a result of criminals like Cuomo and Charlie Baker mishandling the nursing homes, the flagrant characterizing of annual flu deaths as Covid Deats, and the vile mainstream media, and the Medical “Professional s fighting against Hydrochloricuine ‘s use because it would have made the virus a nothing burger, eliminating the powers acquired by the Medical mafia, and to hurt the Bad Orange man. I’m convinced it was part of the Democrat’s 2020 strategy, sure they killed a lot of people and still had to cheat but the mean tweets are over, so I guess it’s was worth it
Are you Kidding or is this real?
Disclaimer:
I reserve the right to downvote you (on this article) without giving an explanation.
And I reserve the right to instruct you to go suck a Diseased Donkey Dick without giving an explanation.
Got any Bible verses?
Haha….gotta a bunch of em:
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.
A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.
Wisdom is before him that hath understanding; but the eyes of a fool are in the ends of the earth.
Better is the poor that walketh in his integrity, than he that is perverse in his lips, and is a fool.
Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—–===
Thanks for askin'
The unthinking unblinking contra virtue signalling cohort has no use for subtlety or grey. Like most complex issues there are always countervailing facts and anomalies from which reasonable people can draw logical conclusions. Over time some answers prove out to be better than others. Are vaccines perfect of course not as humans are not the same (despite what the woke tell us) so the same vaccine will impact people in a different way, sometimes in a catastrophically harmful way. The vast number of people in the population are however provided with a level of protection. So like always it is a risk management issue. We cannot eliminate risk….we just have to live with it and hope to make informed choices.
That is why the Government and MSM lying (or politicizing if you prefer) this issue (among so many others) does an incredible disservice to US citizens. We can’t make an informed choice to manage our individual risk when we have ZERO trust in anything said by Gov’t or the small hat led MSM! Thus we have these heated discussions grasping at scraps of data filled with suppositions in an attempt to derive enough information to make a personal choice. Our country is broken by this dynamic now on almost every dimension you care to look at.
Seems like a reasonably simple task…..do actual science, publish the results, report on the results, provide data-driven conclusions independent of political (power meets money) considerations. Instead half the population (or more) is leery of getting the jab because they don’t trust the sources of information. E.g. NASA says we went to the moon……otherwise intelligent educated folks….say “no way I don’t trust what you say”……Similar dynamic applies here…..and I don’t fault the folks that don’t trust the source….plenty of evidence of purposeful lies that damaged the citizenry…..so why wouldn’t they lie about COVID/Vaccines…of course they would.
Until trust is restored, likely after a cataclysmic crash and restoration, these debates will continue with increasing vitriol. I try not to get caught up in the specific issue (vax or not to vax) but to try and look at the broader issue…..Does this help or hurt the Leftist agenda…..pretty clear that Vax is accretive to the Leftist agenda so therefore highly suspect. Now for my own personal risk management, I took the Pfizer and it has been 5 weeks post 2nd jab….zero issues. But I have significant comorbidity and therefore nothing to lose……most folks have seemingly little to gain so the reluctance is just smart risk management.
I cannot understand the downvote. Great comment. You hit the nail on the head…trust is a must.
Thanks for sharing – so you took a risk – that’s a choice which we all have. I have spent my life avoiding most of the crap that our consumerist society pumps out. I don’t use cosmetics – I shower every day and use coal tar soap (natural antibiotic) and nobody has inferred that I ‘smell’ as the fear-driven cosmetic pushers promote at every advertising opportunity – most fall for it.
Bad breath? Use our new improved toothpaste that actually whitens your teeth at the same time. Give me strength – I need to write a book again.
You can’t restore trust in the corrupted. It’s like taking a spoonful of feces and dumping it in a milkshake. That milkshake cannot be made palatable again.
Genuinely curious. Why did you take it?
Sorry just saw this. I came close to dying of a heart attack last Feb (2020). Emergency 4X bypass. A fair amount of heart damage. I have climbed out of the hole but I won’t be the same. So nothing to lose for me on the vaccine, if it helps great, if it kills me, well I am pretty far down that road already and have made peace with it. I can now go to the gym every day without concern about the dude coughing two treadmills over. My college-age kids work with the public while going to school….all have had the Rona….luckily I avoided it somehow, so also a stress reducer. I am 59, if I had not had the HA, I would not have gotten the jab.
Question. How many people is it acceptable to kill when testing a vaccine on a total population. In a society where “if it only saves one life” is the clarion call, what about if it only takes one life, or a thousand, or two thousand, or three thousand, how many is acceptable before we call a halt to the insanity?
It’s only a pandemic if you’re a pussy who doesn’t do your own research!
At 1:37PM there are now 22 motherfucking dumbshits who do not realize there is a Covid epidemic.
Again, I must ask … WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??!! It’s a serious question.
Is there no one here, other than MH, who has the brains and balls to pursue Truth??
Not kidding, you people are annoying as all shit. I prefer lurking in the shadows. As such, I hate being the smartest guy in the room. Not sure how much longer I can bear that burden.
All the flues are corona viruses. The test (which the inventor of said test, said is NOT designed for detecting Covid 19) is used to lie to us that ALL flues are Covid 19. Stuck, you are way too smart to be so Stuck in normalcy bias. Have you not noticed that only about 1800 cases of “normal” flu have been reported nation wide in the last year? You need a vax to boost your skepticism. Still luv ya, but not in a gay way, not that there’s anything wrong with that…
That vulgar asshat is “way too smart”?! Hahahahahahaha… reading just one minute’s worth of his spew gives conclusive proof of his terminal idiocy. He brings a foul stench to this otherwise excellent website.
I noticed that you changed from pandemic to epidemic. To quote from a previous reply-Grab a fucken dictionary, ya moran.
I really think the TBP “mob” is filled with weak-minded, eunuchs……a chorus of consistency without a single original thought much less the confidence to boldly take a contrarian stand. Grow a pair you genuflecting faux conservatives…..you are simply the opposite side of the same prog. coin……not very interesting…….every fucking thread…the same old hackneyed themes…….zero ability to apply logic to a set of facts, every thread is just an opportunity to bray about your personal bete noir……the Small Hats, The hidden conspiracies, flat earth, everything is a mirage……you are just jerking off…..maybe it feels good for a moment or two but nothing is created and nobody will remember your NPC faceless banalities. At least venture into heretical thought once a week….a toe in the water…you might like it…..Stucky is fiercely original…..be more like Stucky.
Anti Vax is the contrarian view you dullard. See HSF above at 5.55 concerning taking the vaccine.
I think you missed the point…..as an Anon poster I would not typically even respond but it is a slow Saturday here in MT. Your Anon profile and comment are just another Non-Player Character in the conga line of self-affirming BS that passes for thought by a significant cohort here on TBP. You don’t even have the balls to choose a screen name so that your track record of comments will follow you. Of course, Anti-Vax is the standard talking point of the so-called conservative…..but I would be happy to bet that you have taken lots of vaccines for a wide variety of diseases without any ill effect. Am I right? Of course, I am.
My suggestion is that instead of the trite chorus of echoing the party line….do a bit of thinking and take a step back and realize that most issues are complicated and a talking point fails to impress anyone willing to spend more than 30 seconds thinking about any of the issues we discuss here every day. You can do better….and I am depending on you to do better, we all are or all hope is lost. Instead of referencing HSF, think for yourself, though I always find HSF quite thoughtful even when we disagree eg. Flat Earth! How about you Mr. Anon….step the fuck up and contribute something.
Martel,
You had a great comment about 20 or so comments above here. Looking at the total picture, there is no doubt this entire fuck-all is a contrived false. Sad, so sad.
You are on a train of thought I find interesting, Marty.
As far as the vaccine issue goes, I agree that different people seem to react differently. My 80ish neighbor does not seem to be suffering ill effect, but perhaps the vaccine doesn’t affect her “type.”
There was a reason researchers were limited in using “gain-of-function” method, which allows viruses to make the transition from animal host to human host for study.
I was in the US military and have had my share of shots, including at least ten Gamma Globulin shots in the buttocks which hurt like hell and I never even saw anyone with Gamma Globule. I imagine most of the shots are fairly safe, but this one is suspect.
I think my neighbor Geneva is fine. She’s on Blood Thinners now, just in case of clots.
I don’t know what is worse.
Be more like Stucky? Sheesh, if you suck up any harder you can sell yourself out as a Hoover.
LOL I can’t help myself…..I always choose the underdog in any fight. You did see my original comment…”shit stirring engaged”……..
You pissed off almost 30 people with this one! Good job!
There are pandemics every year, we used to call it flu season. This time one strain was given a name and the gov’t & MSM pumped up the fear. Use massive testing with a procedure that the inventor stated it should not be used for. Flash scary numbers daily to stoke fear on an inumerate population to allow bad behavior from the gov’t. Countries around the world took advantage of the situation for reasons that have yet to be discovered. Millions are infected and die every year from viruses. This is a time when it has been brought to the fore, again for unknown reasons. If we pick a virus and give it a name every year we can have a pandemics forever. Stucky, since I’ve been reading on this site ( I’m not sure how many years) you have been adept at manipulating words and phrases to stir shit under the cover of just putting the information out there. Using the word pandemic to freak people out is disingenuous at best. All it means is that an illness has spread to more than one continent nothing more.
The pen is mightier than the sword, Amigo.
When your tag-line is “I’m right, you’re wrong. Get over it.” it is difficult to have any meaningful conversation. When someone raises their voice with bolds and caps then it is no longer a discussion. I’d rather not sit and talk with someone who has to make their point by shouting at me.
Holy Crap! You’re all butt-hurt over THAT?? Grow some ‘nads, snowflake.
Try telling Llpoh he’s wrong about something … he’ll scalp you and feed your remains to his dogs.
Try telling flash he’s wrong about something …. he’ll copy and paste The Encyclopedia Britannica in defense.
Try telling Admin he’s wrong about something …. he’ll order you an IQ test before your next post
Try telling MyGirl she’s wrong about something …. she’ll rip you a new asshole from Ohio to California
Try telling ordo he’s wrong about something …. he’ll have his Nephelim pals feed on your carcass
.
You see, EVERYBODY here thinks they are right and the other party is wrong. It is the very genesis of Shitfests.
If you remain a pussy, you won’t survive The Great Reset.
In my defense, I’m always right. People just have to deal with it.
BTW…thumbs up on that one…made me laugh.
yup…I added an upvote on that one
I never claimed to be butt-hurt nor tell you that you were wrong, but misdirection and name calling are a sure way to change the narrative of the conversation. Which goes to my point of it being difficult to have a conversation. None of the posters that you mention have resorted to shouting and name calling (that I am aware of) as consistently as the posts that you have put up over the years. What I have seen, especially from Llpoh and ordo, are measured, intelligent reprisals to the topic at hand not non sequiturs and ad-hominems to try and maintain some perceived advantage. As far as the great reset, we generate our own power, pump our own water, grow our own food, and educate our children and grandchildren. Total expenses here come to about $5,000/yr. which includes $300/yr. property taxes spare parts, gaskets, bearings and anything that we cannot fabricate ourselves. If you can manufacture nitric acid, sulphuric acid, and grow your own cotton you can make gun cotton(smokeless powder). If you have good brass you can make your own primers, cast your own bullets and harvest wild game if you desire. My original point was why bother attempting a conversation with someone who goes into it so closed minded as to not see that there may be the slightest chance that they could be mistaken. This tete-a-tete has has been a fine example.
(whispering) …pssst, … yeah, you …. SOB …. c’mere … I wanna tell you a secret ….. IF YOU DON’T LIKE MY POSTS DON’T FUCKEN READ ‘EM!!!
Copout.
Excellent advice. I don’t
Don’t get taken in by Stuckey’s shit stirring. He doesn’t really believe this is a pandemic either. I do think he was trying to present the other side though, which we should embrace and then attack the shit out of it.
I have things to do everyday especially now in the spring. It was raining and 37 degrees this morning and I didn’t feel like going out to the shop and firing up the woodstove. I rarely even read articles on the day they are posted so commenting the next day is pointless. It was just cheap entertainment on a rainy saturday. Admin has said that Stucky’s a nice guy so his keyboard persona could be a ruse(or he thoroughly snuffed Admin to get that Lenovo). Anyway it was fun getting him to say Stucky stuff and cop a Stucky attitude. Then the piece-de -resistance: Don’t read my posts if you don’t like them all in bold. I guess when you run out of legitimate talking points a good solid fuck you can end the discussion
You’re beginning to catch on. Good.
I hope you’re not pissed at me … at least not for long. You know what I say — the morrow starts with a new slate. Never let the sun go down on your wrath.
Except maybe Arch. I still can’t believe he put me on a Bad List … and encouraged TBPers to add names to each side of the Ledger. May take me a while longer to get over that one.
Like I told Glock-N-Load it was entertainment for a rainy saturday.When I read comments and look at time stamps I wonder if people don’t have anything else to do. Right now I’ve got baby calves, baby lambs, 4 incubators full of eggs, 2 brooders full of the last couple of weeks hatches, every piece of equipment needs spring servicing before it gets used, and I’ve got to get seed in the ground for this winter’s food. My wife was happy that I sat on my ass for once[for most of the day(I had to go out and check on babies when the rain let up)].
I added a down vote because you didn’t include me…
So solly. 🙁 🙁
It’s not a virus, it’s a marketing campaign. The reason we are discussing it is the totalitarian impositions based on that campaign.
I guess a psychological pandemic is still a pandemic, it just won’t kill you as fast as a “real” pandemic. Apparently far more people have been infected with the psychological aspect as opposed to the viral aspect.
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?! Simply a vulgar, anti-intellectual jackass desperately needing his pie hole closed is clearly what you are and all you will ever be. You bring a foul stench to this otherwise excellent website.
OK, this is for all you morans (below) whom I instructed to consult a dictionary. Did any of you do so?? Of course not. You are all Know-It-Alls.
I suggested a dictionary because all of you think a pandemic means DEAD PEOPLE all over the place. here is Webster’s definition.
============================
pandemic adjective
pan·dem·ic | \ pan-ˈde-mik
\
Definition of pandemic
(Entry 1 of 2)
1 : occurring over a wide geographic area (such as multiple countries or continents) and typically affecting a significant proportion of the population pandemic malaria.
Example: The 1918 flu was a big ass pandemic.
2 : characterized by very widespread growth or extent : epidemic entry 1 sense
3 a problem of pandemic proportions
============================
DO YOU SEE ANY MENTION OF DEAD BODIES? NO!!! DEAD BODIES ARE NOT NECESSARY TO CLASSIFY A WIDESPREAD DISEASE.
AS SUCH, COVID IS A PANDEMIC!!
If you don’t like that, tough shit. Truth is independent of Liking. Take it up with Mr. Webster.
All of you owe me an apology. Are you man enough? Are you ladies gracious enough?
“I suggested a dictionary because all of you think a pandemic means DEAD PEOPLE ” I don’t recall ” all” of the replies discussing dead people. No apologies deserved from”all” and none given from me anyway. Mind the pointy end of that pen.
So is flu. Seasonal flu tends to affect and grow across the population on one side (usually) of the globe.
I think that WHO changed the definition of pandemic a year ago? I may be wrong cause they changed a lot of definitions in the last 12 months, and by “they” I mean the pandemic related industry and the media.
When the “cases” are in millions but are 95% false positives or are simply unpredictable (35-40 cycles of the PCR test) and the flu season completely disappeared all of the sudden, you know that there is lying involved. I do not blame the people for not trusting anyone after they catch them on a few lies. Because there never is a guarantee that they won’t lie later.
Also it looks on Vaers that the deaths caused by all of the 94 vaccines(listed from the 90’s onwards) listed on the site are 11,895 (all vaccines including Covid) but the deaths from the Covid vaccine alone (listed if I remember correctly since November) are 3,186.
So Covid vaccine (I think these are all combined, not just 1 pharmaceutical company)is responsible in a few short months for nearly a third of all deaths from vaccination.
You can check the numbers for yourself.
So to me what she does is puts the numbers neatly as 1 in a million, but doesn’t really go into the numbers. If the deaths from the vaccine were 1 in a million we would be looking at 3 billion people vaccinated already. I forgot if Vaers is just US or the entire world to be honest, when it comes to the reporting but either way I’m doubtful that we have vaccinated nearly half of the world.
Covid 19 looks like something that got overblown to sound like we are all going to die, somehow wiped out the flu and the runaway death effects are nowhere to be seen.
It’s also hard to find facts because they are all tainted. But she is as sneaky as the majority of them when it comes to reports about anything Covid related.
Pandemic ain’t so damn scary then, is it?
Stucky fuck a bunch of dictionaries, (I can say that as descendant of Merriam-Webster.)The dictionary also now contains The important definition of Pandemic is the one that shaped our current reality and that is the WHO, and if you don’t go along with them changing it… then we don’t have a Covid Pandemic. Also if the pcr tests drove the numbers then did we even meet the epidemic on multiple continents? I mean yeah sure people had the flu like they do every year, but do we call it a pandemic?
As to the all powerful current dictionary… here are some of the amazing things that have made it in:
Digital blackface : the use by white people of digital depictions of Black or brown people or skin tones especially for the purpose of self-representation or self-expression
BIPOC (abbreviation) : Black, Indigenous, (and) People of Color
Folx : folks —used especially to explicitly signal the inclusion of groups commonly marginalized.
I can say with my Merriam-Webster blood imbued expertise that the dictionary of today is a sad thing that caters to masters other then language and logos and can safely be disregarded as an authority on the meaning of anything.
Jeebus kristmas, Pogrom!! Now I can’t even use a damned Dictionary to prove a point???
#FukMeDed This world sucks ass, man. It really really does.
Hash tags and twitter are about where I rate the dictionary now. I think you might have underestimated your comment count prediction for this. Well played sir! Of course you can use a dictionary to prove a point with anyone who is lazy enough to allow it! To me that is just conceding the game when generally a good scrap to the bitter end is far more satisfying!
No credibility because he labels all disagreements as coming from anti-vaxers, ad ad-hominem labeling technique designed to discredit by association.
That’s some Weak Sauce there!
Suppose you’re debating with someone as to why wearing a mask is pointless, and they respond to you , “Shaddup, you’re just an ant-masker. You have no credibility!”
Weak Sauce, no?
Three motherfuckers already who do not realize that calling someone either an anti-vaxer or pro-vaxer has ZERO to do with bringing valid points and clarity to an argument.
Wow, oh wow, the stupid here, it burns.
I’m outta here ya maggot curs!
Are you 18 years old?
12
Blow me you fucken back-stabber.
Dude… You go off everytime someone questions you then threaten to leave because us peons don’t deserve you… . The response is nearly always the same… Rant rave cuss swear blow me blah blah blah… Like a 12 year old. It aint a secret.
Nobody back stabbed you unless you think anyone disagreeing with your rants are backstabbing. You attack myself and others here over muh ‘religion’ even on other threads not related to the conversation. Show some respect you’ll get respect… be a douche bag and you get what comes… I patiently await the obligatory ‘blow me DDD’
Added: Sometimes the downvotes are a good indicator. and no I did not and rarely downvote you. When I downvote… I say I did and say why too.
Who said anything about leaving TBP?
I said I’m outta here. Had to go to the pharmacy for mom’s pain meds, and to the farmers market for some fruits and veggies.
In closing, per your request … BLOW ME!
Phew… for a minute I thought maybe you were mad at me… thx
Yeah the down vote was me… and just cause…
Edited… I hope you get that I was being sarcastic with the ‘mad’ comment. and I am outta here, grandkid day and I’ve been on here far to long.
No way!!! We’re all good.
Yes, I grokked the sarcasm.
A friend from another Conservative blog I frequent referred me to this site recently. Seems like a lot of solid content, but goodness the attacks and language.
Perhaps it’s the norm here and I’ll get used to it. Haha.
Reading the comments can be as rewarding as reading the original posts/articles.
First time here, eh? Welcome to the nut house!!
Regarding the attacks and language … ok, here’s the deal.
The Administrator of this site has a rock solid commitment to the First Amendment. Opinions are not censored. Fucking language is not censored.
Once in a GREAT while, trolls and assholes are banned. But, it takes a lot for Admin to get to that point.
You can even post soft porn … a huge event on Fridays. But, NO NIPPLES. Ever.
You said “but goodness”. Who the hell talks like that anymore? Please don’t tell me you say “gosh darn” also. Instead of “but goodness” try “holy shit!”.
Then again, you might be a religious person … but goodness, conservative web site, and is Dobbs for Jim Dobson? Fine, we have plenty of those here. However, the posting of Bible verses is greatly discouraged. This ain’t church for Chrissakes!
If you have religious questions, do as most people do, come to me. I’ve forgotten more than most people ever knew.
If you are easily offended … THIS PLACE IS NOT FOR YOU. Ya need pretty thick skin to survive here. I’ve been here 10+ years and I have callouses even on my eyeballs.
As far as the “attacks”? Pffft! We call then Shitfests. The current one is a relatively minor one.
In closing, WELCOME TO THE BURNING PLATFORM!!!
I musta missed this one earlier…I was on the fence for a split second, but ” If you have religious questions, do as most people do, come to me. I’ve forgotten more than most people ever knew” took me over the edge, and I added another negative
What? Can’t take a little joke? Can’t handle a little self-promotion (I learned it from The Donald).
Relax! Everybody knows you know more about that stuff than I do.
Change your vote, man!!
I thought you said that very well Stucky…I don’t get all the down votes, but then, “I’m not a smart man.”
Dobbs,
As you can see, I am the ONLY person here on TBP who made the time and effort to welcome you to our little (dysfunctional) family.
Yet, I got 4 thumbs down.
And they call ME an asshole???
Like I told you, you need thick skin around here.
Roger that Stucky. I appreciate the welcome.
I do talk that. I have a host of colloquialisms like “Jimminy Crickets” at my disposal.
Dobbsfan is in deference to Lou Dobbs.
Friday night soft porn. We’ll, I’m to old for that stuff……lbnol!
Yes, I’m a Christian with a faint working knowledge of the Good Book. But hey…..there’s power in prayer!
Already “toughening up.”
Reading through the comments can be gold. Especially on this one. Too bad some sites have cancelled theirs.
“[C]alling someone either an anti-vaxer or pro-vaxer has ZERO to do with bringing valid points and clarity to an argument.”
Perhaps a bit more than zero in some cases, but with that statement I’ll agree.
A lot of opinions in both articles IMO. Some consistencies in both: vax only lasts six month, yes you can still get COVID with the vaccine. No discussion of ways to treat/prevent COVID without the vaccine. I only skimmed this article because Dr. Gorski had a little bit of a attitude, so go ahead and shoot me Stuck. I am sure there will be commenters who can post several paragraphs on this. To me a lot of the COVID vaccine debate comes down to who do you believe/trust? The government or those against the vaccine. I just do not like the way the pro vaxxers downplay side effects. Even if the risk is small, if you the have side effects it will not be pleasant. Will this post evolve into a SF on TBP? Time will tell!
You are safe from bullets. I think Gorski is a smug asshole; but, he makes a few good points.
==================== =
For most people, that’s likely ALL it comes down to.
===================== =
Not a chance. Not enough people here to agree with Gorski for this to turn into a shitfest. This post will be very lucky to even hit 30. I only provided it because I really do like to read both sides of a story so, this is here mostly for a reference.
I am looking forward to Dr. Gorski’s rationale for the blatant suppression of the facts regarding the cheap and effective treatments for COVID in lieu of the vaccine. I assume it will be done with the same thorough approach as this piece. I would also like to read a refutation of the Great Barrington Declaration from him. The signers of that document are a weightier crowd of opponents than poor, uninformed anti-vaxxer Mr. Elliot. (I am not holding my breath, mask or not.)
I did enjoy his bit of humor when he quoted the person who said the involved pharmaceutical companies would not be able to make $billions from all the jabs.
My sister in law got the Rona last week because her son’s college sent him home with it. She had a fever and didn’t feel well. Avalon brought her over some of our Ivermectin stash. She took one pill and felt good as new the next day.
12 mg tablet from the (10) count blister pack?
Yep. One 12 mg tablet from the blister pack.
Is that the one you purchase from the site Yo gave us?
Deep Survival?
Yep. The site is shut down now.
anti-vaxer… lowest of lows… /s
Can Ivermectin be bought online without a prescription?
They shutdown the website I got it from – Deep Survival. I think you can get it from India and Mexico without a prescription. Search TBP using Ivermectin. There are a dozen or so articles and people put links in the comments to websites.
Thanks. If I find a reliable source, I will post it back.
http://www.indiamart.com
I was told you can get it here…https://myfreedoctor.com/
Thanks. Sounds legit, but I’m not going to give them a photo of myself …. may be totally safe, just ain’t happening.
Check Tractor Supply or any agricultural Co-Op, comes in a yellow box:
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/durvet-ivermectin-pour-on-250-ml?cm_vc=-10005
Ivermectin in an isopropyl alcohol solution, 10ml for a 220 pound mammal, rub it on bare skin once a week. Wait 24 hours before washing the area. Twenty five doses for about twenty bucks.
I checked with my doctor and he said he would prescribe it if I came down with the bug. I was still concerned with potential delays or problems with local pharmacies so I bought a stock to keep on hand from Deep Survival before it went away, as did a number of people in my local “community”.
Check with your doctor if they will prescribe Ivermectin should you come down with the bug, if not consider looking for a new doctor.
Just buy the stuff for horses online. It is the same stuff as given to humans with nothing extra and the dosages are close enough to the same to just go with them. I would look up dosages for prophylaxis though, because I only know about treating parasites.
Horse ivermectin that is still very good and just the ivermectin that tastes like apples can still be bought on Ebay. Not cheap but doable. I took it before and gave it to my pets regularly and never had any problems.
My doctor told me to use this for skin mite issue (Yuck I know) both orally and topical. I still have two tubes. Plus, it’s apple flavored lol
Dispense per your own weight
My sister had the experimental jab twice and said it was like the worsr flu. My nephew tested positive and caught Rona.
He said it was like the worst flu, once. What to do? Not getting the jab. Nope.
More than anything, I couldn’t find where the doctor addresses any of the major factual concerns of the argument, so clarifying a bunch of peripheral information is pretty fucking irrelevant. I am not going to argue with someone saying something wildly wrong about a technical detail when their overall point about official misinformation and obfuscation is correct.
I have a grand kid’s soccer game to attend then I have company coming. So, unfortunately I’ll just have to read the replies. I will say it needs a rebuttal to the rebuttal.
Sounds like he has an agenda to me. Not that the pro-safe vaccine people don’t have one. The question is, what are their motives behind it?
Dr. Gorski’s Virology/Vaccine development credentials are where?
DAVID H. GORSKI, MD, PhD, FACS is Professor of Surgery and Oncology at the Wayne State University School of Medicine, a surgical oncologist at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute specializing in breast cancer surgery, and faculty in the WSU Graduate Program in Cancer Biology. An investigator whose primary research interests include the role of glutamate receptors in promoting the growth and metastasis of breast cancer, Dr. Gorski also runs an active research laboratory and has recently taken an active interest in the problems of breast cancer overdiagnosis and overtreatment.
It is an appeal to Authority, but if you required a heart transplant would you consult with THE expert commercial plumber or trust an “average” cardiac transplant surgeon?
In my final determination, it is the IFR, infection fatality rate, and available proven non-vaccine treatments that trump all the debate concerning the administration of ANY vaccine, mRNA or “conventional.”
In view of this, Dr. Gorski’s opinions are rhetorically interesting, but unimportant.
Seriously, Joe, go fuck a duck.
If a person has credentials you cry out “appeal to authority!!”
If a person has no credentials you cry out “Dumb Ass!!”
It always a no-win situation with people like you. Go fuck a duck.
I am just going to agree with you here on the principle that this was a bullshit critique so I have a single comment on this thread I can sorta agree with you on.
Nuff said – I agree. IFR and known effective medications is all that is needed – Hat tip Admin, he offers a live example.
Those are all adequate credentials. He understands the molecular biology and the medical application of it.
He is qualified to read and understand anything on the topics of virology and immunology.
I don’t think appeals to authority are adequate for any deliberate debate, but he is one.
Our hook-nosed “friends” pushing their depopulation agenda. Anytime you disagree with the drivel they spew, you are labeled, anti-vaxxer, anti-semite, conspiracy theorist….
Do NOT take their experimental gene therapy “jab” as they so lovingly call it.
Israel is close to 100 % vaccinated. are they all dead yet?
Was it a real vaccine Mr. Marx?
Oh, goody! A nigger Joo hater. Just what this thread needs.
Choose your battles. Wifey and I don’t wear masks, whenever we think we can “get away with it” but choose not to be confrontational (generally) on that front. We both, however, have decided that not getting the vaccine is our “hill to die on”. That includes up-to and including losing my job, if they choose to make employment dependent upon vaccination.
Stucky, you shitflinger, that is an extremely weak article… }:o)
There, i saved anyone else from having to agonize over speaking up.
Weak does NOT mean 100% wrong. A few of his arguments are powerful, imho. I already mentioned #1 and #2. No one has been able to refute that yet.
Argument #1 is powerful?! No, read it again. He is supposed to be refuting the idea that the vaccine makers have no liability — but what he actually says (paraphrased) is that “vaccine makers have no liability, but it’s OK because the taxes on vaccine sales are used in another court completely separated from the vaccine manufacturers, and besides, it was a good idea.” That’s not a refutation, that’s a confirmation.
Great. Wonderful. Vaccines (these ‘treatments’ are not vaccines) are effective and safe. Everyone who desires to get inoculated should. You will be safe. But I am going to take a pass. So just leave me alone. If these drug agents are so effective, why am I a threat to you?
His best point is in Number 1 — “vaccine manufacturers would simply stop supplying vaccines to the US due to liability concerns.”.
That’s pretty damned true. People are sue happy and scum lawyer ambulance chasers are in abundance. Without any such protections we’d have no vaccines of any kind.
I did not downvote this because of “People are sue happy and scum lawyer ambulance chasers are in abundance.”
I didn’t upvote it either
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—-=====
Why give an entire industry immunity from being sued over something that is totally unnecessary i.e. vaccines . Humans survived and thrived since creation with no protection from illness other than our God given immune systems… now all of a sudden we can’t survive a specie sans a vaccine? That’s some weak kool-aid your hawking , Stuck.
They are legally immune to law suits. Thank lobbyist inspired congress.
that’s his best point?
in sue-happy america one might be surprised that anybody is willing to do or sell anything. a fucking macdonalds coffee can get you what, a 4 million dollar settlement? so it’s really not at all a ‘strong argument’ that if the pharma megacorps were liable they’d never sell a vaccine.
somehow, enough people still buy macdonalds coffee (can’t say myself, never tried the stuff, havent eaten at a mickey d’s in over 25 years) that they still sell the stuff all over the place. pharma megacorps get sued sometimes over other drugs and even sometimes end up paying billions in settlements, but thats just a short write off and theyre right back to running the money machine the next day. it would be the same with vaccines. with the government standing in the middle though, their risk is capped and predictable based on the tax, and anything else is on uncle sam. that’s not so much anything specific to vaccines, as it is just one more birlliant fucking scam to keep profits in the hands of megacorps and push risks onto other suckers, especially taxpayers who are the biggest suckers of all.
but that really all means that the argument ‘if there was liability theyd never mek another vaccine, so we must shield them from liability’ is completely empty and bullshit. even with liability they are still perfectly fine making and selling a bazillion other drugs, and if they rake in a hundred billion and pay out a billion in settlements, you can be sure theyve worked that into the budget enough that it’s acceptable cost of doing business and, in any case, it’s you suckers paying for it and not them, through higher costs spread over the whole industry.
now another secondary comment. gorsky’s response to this was also full of bureacrat talk about various government liability-limiting schemes. he doesnt actually say for sure under which one these experimental injections would fall, but i do know that when i am talking directly about a subject and i get tangential bureacratic information back without being strictly on topic, i smell a dissembler or busllshit artist. in a professional setting if i ask someone about how the foomatic version 42 mechanism works in this subsystem when given this input and whether a specific fubar has been fixed like we said we would do last week, or something, and instead i get a lecture back about the org chart of a different department of the company that sometimes uses the foomatic.. i am going to immediately infer that the person i am asking is a: stalling for time because he knows my next question will be has he fixed the bug yet and he knows the answer is no, or b: is stalling because not only has he not fixed it, but because he is a total freeloader bullshit artist in dire need of firing his ass. either way the word for that is dissembling and it never inspires confidence about what i’m hearing.
and again, he doesnt really deny that there is a limitation of liability , which was the whole argument the elliot fellow was making that he found it disingenuous and certainly one indication of the confidence these megacorps have that they will not be sued over these (or other) vaccines, and perhaps that they fear more serious consequences than merely handing over a few billion bucks and calling it a day – perhaps someone might even run the risk of criminal liability somewhere and that really fucks up one’s golf schedule. so perhaps if elliot looks at this and say, theyre ok with assuming liability for, say, vioxx, and shelling out a few billion in settlements, but they arent willing to accept liability for vaccines, then are they afraid of consequences that’d be even worse than a few billion in settlements?
that’s a reasonable line of thinking and no, telling me some inconclusive side-track line about various different liability shielding programmes in the government for different classes of vaccines, does not actually address elliot’s argument at all. gorsky’s only direct answer to elliot was the weaksauce ‘if they had to assume liability then theyd never sell vaccines’. so either thats bullshit because they clearly were happy to sell vioxx and any other damn thing you can think of, day in, day out, and theyre ok with paying settlements there… whereas they must conclude their risk is much higher with vaccines than with other drugs and thus they need someone else to pick up the tab… ooooooor else it’s bullshit because at the end of the day, if you sell a product that’s so shitty that you feel a need to be shielded from liability, then perhaps your product is actually a piece of garbage and we’d be better off without it anyway?
anon,
+100–
i was once on vioxx & it was the best pain med i ever used–worked fast,did not wear off until it was time 4 the next dose,did not get me groggy or high–turned out that it was extremely dangerous & the sob s knew it b4 it hit the market —
i have wondered many x what would have happened if i had been on it now instead of 20 years ago when i was in my early 40 s–
vioxx,along w/ a few other issues,made me very distrustful of big pharma/medicine–
That is a terrible argument. That same logic could extend to any other product that falls under the FDA or USDA. Yet only the vaccines need this cutout. Why? The obvious reason is there is less of an expectation of safety, yet no authorities defending vaccines are willing to argue the medical ethics of that implied expectation. Only in the context of vaccines are people ignoring all established principles of medical ethics.
That can only be authentically argue if a danger is demonstrated, and there are no covid facts to support that there ever was a demonstrated danger sufficient to suspend human rights. Human experimentation and what constitutes it and what is legally and morally acceptable are all very well established.
Perhaps it is.
But, can we at least stop solely blaming Big Pharma? (Don’t get me wrong … I generally loathe the bastards.)
How about putting most of the blame where it belongs? Donald Trump. HE is the one who pushed, cajoled, and suspended all kinds of regs and safeguards to make the Shit Shot even possible.
You think he did that to MAGA? Puhlease! Or, maybe he did it because he believed it would help him get reelected … the long-term health of Americans be damned?
[How about putting most of the blame where it belongs? Donald Trump. HE is the one who pushed, cajoled, and suspended all kinds of regs and safeguards to make the Shit Shot even possible.]
I can only give you one upvote on paper…..but in my heart it’s +1000
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—===
I’ve read all of your comments Stuckey and this is the only one I upvoted.
This was Trump’s Bigly failure.
Stucky, may I kindly suggest, you FUCK YOURSELF. Imbecilic moron.
Yes, you may suggest it.
However, be aware that I’ve been here over a decade, and that suggestion has been made to me at least, conservatively, over a thousand times.
One time I did actually attempt to fuck myself. I was unsuccessful. So, your efforts would go unheeded.
Mr Elliot is a complete bullschiffer and disinformation superspreader.
Just the most outrageous points:
#1 So he at length blathers about some obscure 1986 law and completely ignores the current, truly given legal immunity to Covid vaccine companies??
#2 “[Moderna mRNA vaccine] actually ended up doing much better than I had expected”
Bullschiff statement as long as you don’t describe in detail what your expectations were.
#3 “the same vaccine safety monitoring system that has detected one-in-a-million adverse events”
Hmm, you are telling us with a straight face that monitoring system can do such over an only 5 month period [of vaccines being administered], and for one-in-a-million adverse events even when the number of vaccinated people so far is in the 100 million range?? (as 2 doses per person)
#6 “the highly unlikely possibility of rare late side effects”
Tell that straight to the face of Contergan (Thalidomide) victims, dumbass.
Took only 4 years in Germany to recognize its danger, and then have it recalled.
#11 Mr. Elliot, you need to have Nassim Taleb tear you a new one.
He mathematically demonstrated more than 10 months ago that the final IFR (and CFR) can only be lower than the current best estimate, as we know pretty well who died from, but we have very incomplete data on who caught Covid.
He’s also mostly right with #2.
What a company did in the past is mostly irrelevant to what they are doing today. Ford didn’t mind killing people over a $5 gas cap, yet they make some of the finest cars on the market today.
And I’m glad he pointed out the LIE about the use of aborted fetal tissue. (Why did Christian Elliot have to lie about that?? Doesn’t that make the rest of his reasons suspect?)
I’m sure with a little honest reflection you all can find other things Gorski states correctly.
I had to downvote that one because I’ve always been a Chevy guy.
Proof?
Screw you!!! Who was your monkey yesterday? Do your own fucken research.
Hey, how about this …. how about YOU prove they don’t use aborted fetal tissue??!!
Ok, I wasn’t going to chime in here…but…The key issue isn’t the efficacy or dangers of Covid vaccines, rather, it’s the question of why push for vaccines when there are readily available and cheap drugs that can treat the disease? Instead of using those drugs, they were demonized and ignored in favor of expensive vaccines and expensive and experimental anti viral drugs.
The other issue is the notion of a pandemic. A true pandemic has mass casualties, mass infections ala the Spanish Flu coupled with a highly contagious infection rate.
OH MY GAWD!! YOU TOO???
Consult a goddamned dictionary.
So solly little fella, up until 2014, one of the major indicators for a pandemic/epidemic were the number of dead.
Historically, measures of pandemic severity were based on the case fatality rate.[23] However, the case fatality rate might not be an adequate measure of pandemic severity during a pandemic response because:[21]
Nice try though…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic
Your true Bolshevik colors are leaking though your carefully constructed shitflinging facade , Stuck . In particular your hatred of all things Christian.
“Johnson & Johnson has lost major lawsuits in 1995, 1996, 2001, 2010, 2011, 2016, 2019 (For what it’s worth, the company’s vaccine also contains tissues from aborted fetal cells, perhaps a topic for another discussion).” Christian Elliot
“Was the Johnson & Johnson (Janssen Pharmaceuticals) COVID-19
vaccine developed using fetal cell lines?
The non-replicating viral vector vaccine produced by Johnson & Johnson did require the use of
fetal cell cultures, specifically PER.C6, in order to produce and manufacture the vaccine.
The Catholic Church and the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission have both
stated that receiving a COVID-19 vaccine that required fetal cell lines for production or
manufacture is morally acceptable.”
https://www.health.nd.gov/sites/www/files/documents/COVID%20Vaccine%20Page/COVID-19_Vaccine_Fetal_Cell_Handout.pdf
Seriously … no shit flinging … no bullshitting …. PISS OFF AND DIE. Emphasis on the “DIE!!”, you piece of shit. Why don’t you copy&paste a picture of a stick of dynamite and stick it up your wrinkled old ass.
That’s about how I figured a Bolshevik caught in a lie would react…
Yes, Elliot made a mistake in talking fetal scares. It just goes to show that any argument contains some truth albeit obscure – but nice to have the other side – I learned a lot once again – thanks Stucky even if some of the family down-vote you!
In various stages of vaccine development and manufacturing,some of the COVID-19 vaccines used cells originally isolated from fetal tissue (often referred to as fetal cells), some of which were originally derived from an aborted fetus.
https://www.health.nd.gov/sites/www/files/documents/COVID%20Vaccine%20Page/COVID-19_Vaccine_Fetal_Cell_Handout.pdf
I got as far as #9 before I called ‘Bullshit’.
1. Item #7; the jab is not an approved ‘vaccine’, so it is still experimental. Anyone who takes a jab for Covid-19 is participating in a medical study, and if they are not told this, there is no informed consent.
2. There is no need for a ‘vaccine’ when there are cheap, safe and effective treatments for both prophylactic prevention and treatment; HCQ, zinc, D3 as well as ivermectin.
3. I’m not taking the jab. I don’t trust anyone in my government to not lie to me, and this is no exception.
Anyone can make any data look like anything they want.
If I want a house value to come in higher I can search a certain way to make it look like the house is worth more (always use agents that do full adjustments on all house features to come up with a value by the way), and vice versa.
The bottom line on this one for me will always be “follow the money”. The pandemic has been seriously monetized for certain segments and they are profiting big time. Call every case that comes through the door Covid so you get X amount of dollars and guess what, suddenly everything is Covid. Hammer, meet nail.
Same for vaccines. Very disingenuous suppression of therapies that worked so a rushed, emergency-use authorization could be gotten for barely-tested “vaccine”.
Herd-immunity is now no longer about populations getting the virus and recovering, nope, now it’s about making sure everyone gets this vaccine.
So for me, I will definitely not be taking it. If someone else wants to, then by all means, go forth and be a part of the largest human experiment on the planet.
The idea that Big Pharma is only in this for the money is a tired one. EVERY company does what they do because of profit. That’s the big reason many hate Capitalism.
Would you rather have a broke ass company make the vax? A company that can only afford the dumbest researchers and scientists? I didn’t think so.
Big Pharma makes BILLIONS of dollars every year. They don’t need to purposely kill people just for a few more shekels. That’s a fact.
So what are you really saying? That you would take the shot if no money was being made? Sounds like it.
Truthiness and scientism always has a rebuttal. I trust my eyes when I see thousands of people being killed and maimed and I trust my gut. No vaccine for me. A mass vaccination program is not needed for a disease with a 99.8% survival rate.
Auntie’s concise two-part response of reasons for NOT getting a CoVid-19(84) injection to Dr. Gorski’s rebuttal:
1. My body, My choice.
2. Because FUCK YOU that’s why.
Your level of discourse is post some Bumper sticker Bullshit?
What happens when YOUR body infects MY body? Did I have a choice? No. What then, Einstein? Maybe I bash your head in with an aluminum baseball bat? My bat, my choice.
“Your level of discourse”
After reading down through the comments the irony of this comment is inescapable. Is this the act of a double agent? Instead of playing the devil’s advocate which which can be useful, instead play a complete ass to discredit any of Gorski’s arguments by boorish association. If this is the actual intent, then well played.
It may be that was his intention, but he is nowhere near to being sophisticated enough to play even such a simple sleight of hand. He is simply a vulgar asshat who brings a foul stench to this otherwise excellent website.
My 12 gauge’s buckshot and rifled slugs beats your Louisville Slugger.
And that shall remain Auntie’s policy for mandatory experimental emergency use authorization genetic modification therapy injections: a shot for a shot – Auntie goes first.
The bumper sticker bullshit discourse you refer to is short, simple, to the point and easy to remember and in a world filled with fucking imbeciles keeping it simple is better than trying to have an actual expansive and informed conversation with most humans who are NOT capable of such activity.
Have a nice shit-stirring day in any case.
Wait, aren’t you getting “vaccinated”. I loathe to call these experiments a vaccine, because according to a lot of the people it’s actually therapy and doesn’t perform the function of a vaccine very well, but maybe they are wrong?
If they are wrong and this is a vaccine which should prevent you from getting the virus, why are you worried about the unvaccinated? They cannot hurt you anymore since you are getting a vaccine, so yes, their body their choice.
No.
Hell no.
No fucking way ever no!!
Get Vaxxed. Then you’re safe.
Btw, my in laws got the first
Moderna injection a couple days ago in spite of all the info given them by my sister in law giving them tons of info to dissuade them. Can’t remember if that one is a 2 or 3 week wait for the 2nd. Uncle 80 yr old uncle got his 2nd Pfizer about a week ago. Said it had him down for 2 days.
Stucky
My son developed what I suspect was heavy metal poisoning but was diagnosed as autism when he was three. I say I suspect it was heavy metal poisoning because he had a reaction after receiving a multiple vaccine shot that contained thimerosal (mercury-based preservative) and aluminum adjuvant. I have been a vaccine and additives skeptic for many years, and during this outbreak or pandemic if you want to call it that, I have posted on SLL many articles raising many different doubts about the Covid-19 vaccines, including the 18 reasons article. I salute you for posting this article, which gives the other side of the story. Most of us, including me, don’t have the education or time to investigate all the literature, scientific and otherwise, concerning the vaccines. The closest substitute is to read widely and be aware of the issues and arguments both ways. Needless to say, the predominate slant in the alternative media has been negative, including SLL’s. This article will give the few who are so inclined an opportunity to consider the other side. Again, thanks for posting and don’t worry about the down votes, which I’m pretty sure is unnecessary advice.
I’ll second Robert’s thank you, Stucky. We may not agree with all or even any of the rebuttal arguments–I winced reading his pathetic argument dismissing the IFR data–but it’s valuable to hear the other side of the story.
Well said Robert and I join with you in your accolade
“I salute you for posting this article, which gives the other side of the story.”
That’s all I wanted to accomplish …. to give folks a chance, just a chance, to read “the other side”.
But … the Dingle-berries here HAD to start flinging shit. And down vote a couple very reasonable posts I made early on. The honor of my Ostrogoth heritage is at stake here … so, I retaliate with great Sound & Fury. I have no other choice.
Thanks for the encouragement. But you see where that got you …. 4 thumbs down. I will avenge your blood.
#9 – he is going against Fauci in this one. If no transmission after the vax, why the mask?
#11 – he’s calling people who do not want to take the vax selfish. Fuck you. You’ve got it
backwards dickwad.
#12 – completely fungible. You could litterally say anything.
#13 – …”but the matches are so short as to be insignificant.” This sounds like bullshit to me.
Without even the shortest sequence, the entire sequence is imcomplete. IMO, he does hold
patents for Covid sequencing.
#14 – then why spend billions of dollars to convince those who do not need a vax to get the vax?
#16 – why is this debate withheld from the public?
#18 – are you setting us up for a constant vax regimen?
If the vaccine court is paid for by a tax on the “vaccine,” then the manufacturers have NO LIABILITY. How fucking hard is that to understand?? And they have made sure in every country, that they would not sell even one dose without complete blanket immunity from both civil and criminal charges. NO LIABILITY!!!!!!!!!! This is not a half-truth, a quarter truth, or even a three quarters truth. It is 100% true. NO LIABILITY. And if you cannot produce a product in a manner that keeps you safe from liability (by nobody getting hurt, etc, then you shouldn’t be producing it.
And these same drug companies have knowingly injured and killed people with prescription drugs that they DO face liability on….and yet they continue to produce them and sell them. Seriously, why would anyone need even another reason not to trust them when they have NO LIABILITY???
Now, you see … THAT’S how you make a good argument!!
At first glance, I thought Gorski made an OK case about the vaccine court. But, Mr. Liberty’s excellent observation slipped right past me.
OK, then. So, Gorsky is full of shit on #2. Next!
You are a master shit stirrer.
Sorry, he’s just a vulgar asshat (or simply a “master shit”, if you will) who in the end really doesn’t bring anything useful to any discussion. He only brings a foul stench to this otherwise excellent website.
In his first rebuttal point after he drones on about how Mr. Elliott is wrong about the corporate liability immunity because people injured by a vaccine can sue in the vax court,
But then he acknowledges that the vax court isn’t available because the jab isn’t a FDA approved drug/ “vaccine” it’s an experimental treatment being distributed by an emergency use authorization and the other courts aren’t available because the manufacturers have blanket immunity.
Totally disingenuous circular obfuscation of the true state of Mr. Elliot’s fundamental argument that the people injured by the injection will have no legal recourse
Stucky said
WE have been talking about this shit for a fucking YEAR! Must be a thousand threads by now. Countries around the world have been, are, and will continue to be in various stages of lockdown. No end in sight.
That is the only meaningful statement or fact regarding the alleged virus or alleged vaccine in the last nine months. If the author had inserted that somewhere in his 18 point rebuttal he could claim to have a shred of integrity.
Setting aside our views on it’s legitimacy, can we make a list of 18 major actions, memes, or events that have that may have been nearly impossible to arrange without it?
1. A stolen election.
2. White patriots became terrorists.
3. Terrorists became BLM/Antifa who became patriots.
4. Government spending went from the the size of an ordinary back hole to the size of 4 universes.
Any suggestions?
Stucky seems to be somewhat of a moron.
You could not be more of base.
Stucky seems to be somewhat of a moron.
Hardly. Stucky is a shit-stirrer, a professional and masterful stirrer of shit. He is a contrarian for sport and his own amusement and he also manages to separate the sheep from the goat really well.
Please clarify. Do you mean just in this thread? Or, do you mean at all times?
Is there anything I can do — within reason — that would change your mind about me? Your opinion of me is extremely important to my sense of well being.
I think the correct term is moran.
If you can just keep insulting every commenter on this post you will surely reach your goal of 300.
If you can just keep insulting every commenter on this post you will surely reach your goal of 300
It does seem to be a single-minded and dedicated pursuit, doesn’t it? I daresay it’s fun for awhile but….the weather is gorgeous, there’s lots of chores needing attention and so, adieu. Keep up the good work Herr Scheisse Schleuderner…
I prefer to think of it as providing the Rod Of Correction.
See stupid shit, correct stupid shit.
Even you, on rare occasions, have noted that you might have to implement an IQ test before people are allowed to comment.
I’m thinking……
The Rod of Correction? Oooooh, so you ARE into spankings….Tell me, have you been a naughty boy? Come to mama you bad bad boy…
The most important reason to not get a vaccine is the fact that SARS-CoV-2 has never been isolated, and therefore has never been proven to exist. Therefore any vaccine couldn’t possibly work, except by pure chance, even if COVID-19 exists, which it probably doesn’t. So any vaccine is a waste of time at best, and at worst is a gene-altering bioweapon which will cause untold problems for those who get the vaccines. But the good news is that there is a high likelihood that many if not most of those who get one of the vaccines will be dead or sterile within a few years. This will greatly reduce the number of stupid people on the planet, which will greatly enhance the quality of life for the survivors.
That’s awesome! Not kidding.
I will never ever take the Shit Shot … even if a gun is held to my head. However, I do NOT need 18 fucking reasons. I need just three. In order of importance;
—1) Your quote above.
— 2) a vax based on mRNA has never been successful for humans. One report, iirc, said it killed ALL animals it has been tested on.
— 3) long term effects are completely unknown. I am NOT a fucken guinea pig, you motherfuckers!!!
—–
I think that video of the black girl who refuses to wear a mask (in Austrian Peter’s article) is increasing more than usual my colorful language.
So my quandary is the messaging. So often like with gun control you hear that we NEED this because if it saves just ONE life then its worth it. Why is it that this same message doesn’t apply to the experimental vax’s??? If it kills one life why wouldn’t it be reasonable to not proceed with the vax’s, after all you’d be saving that one life?
Mass shootings are reprehensible but mass deaths from vaccines are ok and expected?? Shootings can be prevented by banning all guns but the thousands of deaths by vaccine are ok and even promoted by the government?? So weird…
So political…
FIFY
Let’s propose hospitals get an extra $13,000 for each case of “vaccine” injury and then we can get the 2,500 number of deaths up 50,000 or more. Properly incentive the reporting and maybe we can get the number up into the millions. Then everyone can blame Trump and the TPTB can come in and save us again.
Thank you for this. article. I’m 70 and am starting to think my risk/ reward is starting to shift to getting the vaccine.
The first rebuttal is nonsensical propaganda.
He goes on and on explaining why the writer was wrong about vaccine makers liability because people can go to the vax court. Then after details why a person who is injured by a vaccine still can seek damages.
at the end he totally obviates his argument by mentioning that the jab is not really a vaccine, so the vax court doesn’t apply, “a more restrictive system applies”
in other words the vax court doesn’t apply and the maker’s have liability immunity.
the first rebuttal was done simply to check the box of rebutting all the 18 points. But it was done in such a way as to cast doubt on the
legitimacy of the rest of his arguments.
And to call someone who doesn’t believe in non approved injections, anti vaxxer is more propaganda, like much of the dishonet information which could have come.from that other Dr Dr. Gobbles
Especially one which even if approved would not be a vaccine by definition because according tot the dc and nih, it doesn’t immunize the recipient from tue virus, it only lessons the symptoms, hence the need to continue masks and social distancing,
Wow, I did not see that. Good find.
Dr. Gobbles was the founder of Butterball Turkey Corp.
Dr. Goebbels, otoh, was minister of propaganda for the German Third Reich.
The heart of the matter is in reason #3, in which antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) , the main reason to hold off on the vaccine for now, is raised. The main argument against this essentially is, “it has not happened yet, so it never will” It assumes that one year is a long term observation. Talk about weak sauce.
well, you know, a few months is plenty of time. you know, with 9 women we can get a baby in one month. with 40 women we can get a baby in one week!
even these lying pieces of shit have had to admit that the clinical trials continue through to some date in 2023.. anyone taking this shit until then is 100% certifiably a guinea-pig.
The working title of this article could be Stucky Finds A Corporate Pwnd Troll
Internet Trolls, Disinformation Agents and Big Vaccine
(This article contains extensive excerpts from a Duty to Warn column that was published on the Global Research website on May 11, 2016)
Friday Feb. 15th, 2019 Gary G. Kohls, MD
” Big Pharma and Big Vaccine corporations have used disinformation agents since those industries were started. They are called pharmacy sales representatives (aka drug reps) and, as a physician, I have been disinformed by them a thousand times over my career when they were trying to get me to prescribe their over-priced and dangerous products to my patients. And now, since the US Congress made it legal for pharmaceutical corporations to market their products directly to consumers (direct-to-consumer advertising), their over-priced and dangerous products are essentially sold to patients.
Below is Dr Gorski’s recipe for internet trolling. Thee formula needs to be understood by every progressive activist whose websites have likely been infiltrated by trolls:
“Go in there and “agree with them” and then say things that appear thoroughly delusional, overtly nuts, blatantly and obviously wrong even to nincompoops, etc. Occasional spelling and grammar errors are also useful but don’t over-do. The point of this exercise is to create an impression that drives away undecideds who may come in to check out these sites. It helps to do this as a group effort and begin gradually, so the sites appear to be “going downhill slowly.” – David Gorski, one of many well-hidden Big Pharma shills who specialize in trolling “safe vaccine” websites of distressed or angry parents whose children have been unequivocally injured or killed by vaccines. ”
https://duluthreader.com/articles/2019/02/15/112278-internet-trolls-disinformation-agents-and-big
More proof Gorski is a reckless pro-vaxx -at any cost- corporate shill who will attack anyone, even a colleague over any warning against the dangers of an unproven experimental vaccine….and yes a mere 6 month trial is definitely fall in the ” unproven” category….but muh corporate mega bucks reserach grants are more important that your potentially shortened lifespan….reeee
A Response to Dr. David Gorski of Wayne State University: On Rational Public Discourse About the COVID-19 Vaccine, Outside of Your Twitter Echo Chamber.
From: Hooman Noorchashm
Date: Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 5:13 PM
Subject: Your Article
To:
Cc: Woodcock, Janet , Marks, Peter
Dear Dr. Gorski,
I’ve read your article referencing my opinion piece about vaccination of recently convalescent and infected COVID-19 patients:
Of course I very much appreciate your detailed reading of my opinion. To be 100% clear, I have a good command of immunology and I fully grasp the critical importance of vaccinating as many people as possible, as quickly as possible, with an effective vaccine in the face of the pandemic challenge we are now facing.
That said, I am not fooled into believing for a moment that safety can be assured to citizens, when such speed and scale is being deployed as we are correctly aiming for. Nor do I ascribe to the idea that for the benefit of the majority in an ethical society, it is justified to accept minority harm — especially when such harm is amenable to prediction or mitigation. That approach is, in fact, an abuse of utilitarian medical ethics, for which I have a healthy respect — so long as it is adequately calibrated against safety for those identifiable souls who might be in real or potential harm’s way.
To be crystal clear, my concern is that indiscriminate vaccination of the recently convalescent or actively infected COVID-19 patients might pose an immunological danger to them — and particularly those who are elderly, frail or have cardiovascular disease or risk factors.
This is a specific immunological risk prognostication, deeply steeped in an understanding of antigen specific immune responses to vaccines, in a setting where Emergency use of the vaccine is being proposed for the entire US population within a year. Therefore, unlike normal circumstances, we do not have the luxury of waiting for “evidence” of such a risk being material. We MUST use best scientific judgement to protect those definable minority subsets, which are in harm’s way.
Also, let me be clear, based on my scientific understanding of the mRNA technology, I am nearly certain that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines will be two of the most powerful vaccines ever made and brought to market. I fully expect that these vaccines will be highly effective in preventing disease.
Still, I am not willing to forego the safety of a minority subset of people whose lives I can forecast, based on immunological principles, may be in harm’s way. And because, the risk I speak of is highly specific and amenable to a precise mitigation approach (i.e., screening before vaccinating — especially in high risk groups) — it is not ethical to use utilitarianism alone to justify doing nothing about the potential risk defined.
Now, I am not sure if you understand the nuance I am pointing to — and I feel that you are so mechanically trained to defend vaccination, you may not be amenable to seeing my reasoning. But perhaps I am wrong.
With regards to Mr. Robert F. Kennedy Jr’s publication referring to my article, I did not give specific permission to him, nor would I have withheld my consent for him or anyone (including you) to refer to it. You see, this is what the free press and freedom of expression is about in America. You and Mr. Kennedy are both welcome to refer to my opinion piece from your own lens.
That said, and despite the fact that I would dispute some of what Mr. Kennedy and his colleagues have stated in the past, I find your direct attack on me defamatory — his, not. Use of words like “idiot” are more a reflection on you as a professional than on myself. Frankly, it is unbecoming of your title as Associate Professor of Surgery.
I respectfully suggest that we either: a) continue our public discourse in a fully respectful and cogent way as two fellow physician-scientists and to include all sides, or b) discontinue the interaction entirely, if you insist on being bombastically foolish.
In the end Dr. Gorski, about 50% of the American population is failing to accept the critical need for this vaccine. A large subset of this population will never be amenable to scientific reasoning. But I believe that another large proportion of this population is legitimately concerned about the safety of this vaccine as the root cause of their hesitancy. My bet, is that if we respect these folks’ concerns as professionals instead of blowing them off, or worse calling them “stupid” and “idiotic” as you and some of your followers on Twitter seem amenable to doing, we might be able to convince them that these vaccines are and can be used reasonably safely. We may actually be able to earn trust for a change.
I do think that you ought to edit your description of me in the article you published, in the interest of protecting your own professional reputation — the folks who know me as a friend and colleague are who they are and they are all reading your words — I assure you that I do not belong to some crazy fringe group. I am nobody’s “idiot” on the immunological concern I’ve raised.
I have no problem with your critique that Mr. Kennedy’s organization may be using my words for political purposes to cause vaccine hesitancy. That error, would be something Mr. Kennedy would have to live with. But I suspect that even he understands that in this pandemic the vaccine might be a matter of our national survival. Of course, I also know that you are referring to my article to be political and gain notoriety as a pro-vaccine physician.
Of course, i will note that at the moment, we have no issues with vaccine hesitancy. MANY people are waiting for the vaccine and there is only a limited supply. So your gratuitous criticism of me is simply unnecessary and rude — at the moment. Not to mention it missed the point of concern I’ve raised with FDA.
It is your choice how you’d like to proceed publicly from here Dr. Gorski. As Mr. trump demonstrated to us, bombastic fools usually lose in the end — so let us treat each other with respect and reason. Maybe, just maybe, our nation can find a way out of this quagmire. Calling people “stupid idiots” reflects on only you as an academic physician-scientist.
Let me know how you’d like to proceed — I assure you that bigger eyes than you think are on you now.
Polite. Always polite David!
Sincerely,
Hooman Noorchashm MD, PhD
https://noorchashm.medium.com/a-response-to-dr-d0432f9bd2e1
Dr. Noorchashm’s warning letter FDA regulators, Pfizer leaders and the press here:
https://noorchashm.medium.com/a-letter-of-warning-to-fda-and-pfizer-on-the-immunological-danger-of-covid-19-vaccination-in-the-7d17d037982d
And yes, blood clotting and platelet complications are being manifest in patients all across the world.
“As you also know it appears that the ACE-2 receptor on endothelium is the portal for viral entry into endothelial cells — and it seems that endothelial injury from the virus or from the inflammatory reaction it incites, is the reason why many COVID-19 patients experience thromboembolic complications.
So it is a matter of certainty that viral antigens are present in the endothelial lining of blood vessels in all persons with active or recent SARS-CoV-2 infection — irrespective of whether they are symptomatic or convalescent.”
https://noorchashm.medium.com/a-letter-of-warning-to-fda-and-pfizer-on-the-immunological-danger-of-covid-19-vaccination-in-the-7d17d037982d
Classy response.
When, and from which school, did you get your degree in Psychology?
Actually, that was an interesting take on Dr. Gorski. As I said very early on, he gives me the impression of being a smug asshole.
From the TBP School of Smelling Bullshit A Mile Away. I have a PhD.
Umm. He makes many ‘assertions’ without references or factual support: eg:
“it’s not clear that his immunity is lifelong (in fact, very likely it is not)” In fact? I don’t think he knows enough about our magical immune systems to be able to state this.
It would take pages to refute this very well argued contrarian view to anti-vaxers. Recently this article appeared on TBP and I was most impressed with its logic:
I quote it often and put it forward again as a refutation of the content of the details above. Clearly there are arguments on both sides, but for me at least, the balance is in favour of avoiding this gene therapy and I will rely on my own, God-given, defenses to weather this storm as I have done these many 30 years of sailing our unpredictable English channel: When in doubt, shorten sail, heave to, hunker down, have a few shots of scotch waiting for it to blow over, as it always does.
I still ain’t taking it. I’ll take my chances. Piss on them.
This is a bullshit article.
Just for starters:
In #2, THE CHECKERED PAST OF THE VACCINE COMPANIES, he states: “Moreover, all the current vaccines for which the FDA has issued EUAs have completed phase 1, 2, and 3 clinical trials…” I’m confused here. I’ve read that the pharmaceutical companies clearly state in their applications that Phase 3 trials will not be complete until sometime in 2023.
In #3, THE UGLY HISTORY OF ATTEMPTS TO MAKE CORONAVIRUS VACCINES, he claims that ADE has not been observed after “millions” of doses. My understanding of ADE is that it would manifest itself as the body’s response to a future infection from (perhaps) a variant of the current virus. I doubt if it has been long enough yet.
In #4, THE “DATA GAPS” SUBMITTED TO THE FDA BY THE VACCINE MAKERS, his rebuttals are full of hedging, “soft” assertions, and outright mis-statements.:
1) “…evidence is mounting that these vaccines do prevent transmission and mortality…”. Evidence is ‘mounting’, really?
2) “…and we know that the protection lasts at least six months, and likely much longer…” No, nobody ‘knows’ that–it is only a guess.
3) “…We also know that vaccine-induced immunity is probably more potent than the immunity that comes after natural infection.” Tell me how we “KNOW” that something is “PROBABLY” true.
In #16, CENSORSHIP AND THE COMPLETE ABSENCE OF PUBLIC DEBATE (my personal favorite…LOL!), he finally shows his true colors when he says, essentially, that there really HAS been debate–it’s just been “behind the curtain” and we’ve already decided what is true (or, channeling George Carlin, “It’s a big club, and YOU ain’t in it…), so we will reject your input as “misinformation” and will not stoop to arguing the point. And BTW, it’s perfectly OK to censor anything WE in our wisdom determine is “misinformation.”
There is really much that we can’t yet know. Accepting the injection into oneself of any unknown substance is probably one of the ultimate acts of faith in our institutions. I’ve had many inoculations in my life, including a boatload in the military. But increasingly in recent years, having seen medicine in particular and science in general so shamelessly politicized, my faith in the public and corporate officials now overseeing those institutions has reached a personal all-time low. So I have personally concluded that I will be sitting this one out at least until things clarify (in a couple of years?).
The argument is 50% ad hominem.
Of the remainder, 50% is either flat out wrong, or a lie.
Of the remainder, 50% is sophistry.
Of the remainder, it’s mostly valid, but it’s just nitpicking minor details and isn’t worth wading through crap for. (Note that nitpicking, on its own, is valid and important and really helps to ensure that the argument is specific and accurate.)
I’d like authors to do more research before asserting these things, and then, to actually address the facts as they are. Or rather, it’s a flat out fact that we skipped the testing and blocked liability and did all the stuff that vaccine proponents already ADMIT to, and BRAG about having done. The pro-vaccine side MUST defend this position, that is, it must argue either that- the tests were too rigid to begin with, AND/OR, the virus at hand is X% more deadly than usual and thus we can save lives at X% less vaccine safety.
This refutal does neither and is bullshit.
Putting these posts together was a great idea – thanks for doing it. To be informed one must be exposed to various viewpoints! That said – when putting these together – the one thing that really stands out is they are both very dodgy.
Point 1 – Liability. They both agree on what the mechanism for determining liability is – their conclusions about the result of the mechanism differ. They each present their half of the conclusion – while any honest answer regarding liability would require both responses. Liability in America is one of the largest societal and legal issues of post modern times. Everyone wants someone to be liable and they do not want themselves to be liable. Tricky issue. I do wonder about the tax on vaccine doses going to a fund to pay liability claims. If the government is giving the vaccine away, who’s paying that tax? lol
Point 2 – Vaccine makers. Both positions seem to devolve into ‘otherizing’ the opposition. Corporations and their government lapdogs can’t be trusted. Antivaxxers are ignorant savages. Both responses seem intended to appeal to a specific market – as opposed to converting the other. The aborted fetal cell concern is interesting. Apparently some vaccines are produced using aborted fetal cells – which are then filtered out once the cells have produced the appropriate virus components. As opposed to actually containing said cells. So they’re both sort of wrong? At least dodgy.
Point 3 – Not much here. History lesson about virus vaccines and the issues with their development. The easy response is well – hasn’t happened with this one, yet.
Points 4 ,5,6 – The data stuff. Or lack thereof. With a large enough data set – you can prove just about anything. However, no one can tell us simple things like how long the vaccine is effective for? It seems like a valid question. What are the long term effects? Well probably nothing. The stuff with Doshi is interesting – basically for vaccine trials only confirmed cases were counted? While in the news and media suspected cases were reported along with confirmed cases? No wonder perceptions are skewed.
Point 7 and 8 – This was an eye opener for me. After reading thru many of the supporting works that are linked – I was struck by how both sides of this debate seem to be using arguments based on protecting some group. Some are expressing concern about how the vaccine would affect children. Some are expressing concern about how the lack of vaccine would affect the elderly. Everyone seems so noble. Or dodgy.
Point 9 and 10 – They both go full used car salesman here. Don’t get the vaccine! Some people have adverse reactions! Get the vaccine! Some people have adverse reactions! Literally just summed up their arguments.
Point 11 and 12 – Covid numbers. Personally always found these numbers to be a bit suspect. Everyone remembers the kid who died in a motorcycle crash from covid. However that worked. But the good Doctor brings up some interesting points about comorbidities and death reporting. Someone should explain how they managed to cure the flu. Which leads to another interesting question – was the old flu data based on the same reporting mechanisms as covid? Is the reporting and data gathering done based on the same standards as a clinical trial? Not that it matters – but claiming the covid numbers have been standardized and consistent seems absurd. Or we cured the flu. Whatever.
Point 13 – Fauci’s patents. Gorski gives a pretty solid explanation for Fauci’s involvement regarding patent stuff. Eliot probably could figure it out – but everyone can’t be dodgy all the time. I might wonder who will be paying Fauci’s paycheck once he’s done with his public servant career – but I wouldn’t want to imply any conflict of interest.
Point 14 – Gain of function research. They go sensationalist and dodgy here. The gain of function research really just seems like nuclear testing. Hey let’s set off some bombs and see what happens. That seemed like a bad idea – so it was moved to a 3rd world country. Seems fairly typical. As far as the lab origination conspiracy theory goes – I had no idea people were claiming it was entirely manufactured. We do know someone went out to bat caves – swabbed a bat’s balls – brought it back to a lab and started screwing around with it. The swab with coronavirus – not the bat – just to be clear. There’s years of published research about it. After that it’s anyone’s guess. Find the animal and I’ll go zoonotic. Otherwise nothing has been proven. Well, other than someone was screwing around with bat coronaviruses in a lab.
Point 15 – Variants. What happens when a Covid infected person gets infected with a Covid variant? How many angels dance on a pinhead? It seems a chicken or the egg type of argument. Vaccines work – immune systems work. For most people, in most cases. heh
Point 16 – Censorship. Fairly certain many of the questions I have asked in this post would be considered invalid or inappropriate questions. This is one of the few forums such questions can be asked. Punishing those who are willing to ask the questions, or allow the questions to be asked is just tyrannical. Is there a lot of virus confusion in North Korea? Perhaps they have solved the misinformation question…
We’d rather have questions that can’t be answered, rather than questions that can’t be asked. At least around here. I’m paraphrasing, someone smart and clever said something like that a while ago.
Both of these articles make excellent points and counterpoints. Many of these points could be starting points for discussion, while other points seem to be dodgy manipulations. Reading thru all of this, it just seemed like it was two used car salespersons trying to sell a car.
The rest of us still need to figure out what’s best for ourselves and those we care about. Be well.
Bollocks. I am not going to bother, except to say that he doesn’t refute shit. And he doesn’t even address the major arguments, regardless of who he ostensibly replying to.
People have been over generalizing just to cut through and be understandable, he is not revealing anything his opponents don’t know or that is intentionally being obfuscated. I did just skim it though, because he kept doing what I try to articulate above.
Damn, Stuck, you stirred up the hornet’s nest. You done poked the narrative, and there are lots that jus ain’t gone even consider the possibility that there are two sides to this story to be considered.
I found his answers reasoned. Not sure he changed my mind about things, but he is entirely correct about at least a few of the issues – the VAERs reporting for one, which is misused all the time.
Good work.
When in the history of this world were perfectly healthy people put in lockdown/isolation? Scamdemic. Life is hard and unfair. But governments are exercising control over people as a warm up to more nefarious shit. People now look to the gubment for their daily instructions on how to live life and TPTB are enjoying the fuck out of it.
People were dropping like flies when the AIDs shit started making the rounds. I didn’t see them closing down queer bars and shit or making those that tested positive isolate.
To brian, ordo, flash, and all other Believers here.
Hang on to your hats, boys. I’ve got something VERY positive to say about Christians, and a specific church. Not kidding.
Had to go medicine and food shopping early this afternoon. Along the way there’s a park with a baseball field. I see teams playing. I also see a huge cardboard sign “FREE FOOD”.
I decide to stop, and get some free shit. At this point I am assuming it’s some charity event, I’ll throw in a fiver, and enjoy a hamburger and coke. Nope, that wasn’t it at all.
Near the field was a long row of about 10 tables with lots of food and people behind the tables handing it out. So, a guy gives me a very large bag. I ask him what it’s all about. He said his church just wanted to spread some love and food because of Covid.
I turned to leave … told the guy I have food and money to buy food and that needier people are around. (Indeed, there were several black folk in line that didn’t appear to be all that well off.) But, he would have none of it. Said everyone is welcome, no questions asked.
What a haul!! All kinds of fresh veggies. Two quarts of whole milk yogurt. Lady gives me a bag of tomatoes, I say, “those look really juicy and ripe!”. So, she hands me another bag! Next to her was the fig lady. FRESH whole figs, not dried. I tell the lady, just to make conversation, how I had a fig tree at my rented house in Greece, and oh, my, how I loved picking them fresh every morning on my way to work. She hands me THREE more containers!! I decided to stop telling folks how much I liked whatever it is they were handing out.
But, I must tell you about the grapes.
They had TWENTY POUND boxes of grapes … said so right on the box! So, I asked for the first box I saw. Green grapes. But, then I saw the red grapes, which I like better. I asked grape lady if I can have the reds instead. She says “no”. She says, ‘you can have both!” So, now I have 40 pounds of grapes! I’m flabbergasted. I tell her I’m going to tell my elderly Italian neighbor to stop by, cuz they love grapes. Bad move. She says, “oh, your neighbor loves grapes? HERE!!”. NOW I HAVE 60 POUNDS OF GRAPES!!! lol Unreal.
The name of the church is New Walk Church … http://www.newwalk.me Their home page says — “Until NJ Knows Jesus — We love God & love People”
I believe that, 100%. I was asked by one man if I currently attend a church. I said ‘no’. He said that if I ever felt the need or desire to go to church that I would be more than welcome there. I decided to “test” him — cuz I really am an asshole — and I said “Thanks, but I’m not really sure I believe in God.” And he simply said (with sincerity), really, “That’s OK, you will be welcomed anyway”. And that was it.
No giving me The 4 Spiritual Laws. No pressure. No Bible verses regarding the destiny of my soul. Just 60 pounds of grapes and a heartfelt offer to join them in their celebration … of life, of people, of Jesus. I wanted to hug him. But, that would have weirded even him out.
It was the best example of living the gospel that I’ve seen in a very long time.
There are no coincidences . God loves you Stuck.
I love you too, man.
(In a Bud Light, non-homo, kind of way.)
“You would not have called to me unless I had been calling to you” said the Lion. -C.S. Lewis
Mt friend this is the way real Christians roll… not the fake attendees that race to the restaurant for the good seat after church is dismissed. We don’t just slap people with Bible verses, then ‘bless’ them with a wave of the hand and sent them on their merry way, beaten and bruised.
We disagree on many a thing and I think thats great, really. The thing I appreciate about your brash in ur face crudeness is that you do actually stimulate thought and anyone posting had better be prepared to defend that position. Whats not seen are those people like mark, ordo, flash, GCP and a host of others here that truly do live the gospel putting what they post into action.
This is NOT to brag but to point out what we do every day. My neighbour got kicked out of the house by his now ex. She tired of him. He’s got no where to go and was driving around. I found out and he’s in our RV trailer because we don’t have a room in the house for him. He went to A&W so didn’t want to have dinner with us. So we’ll try again tomorrow. And No, we don’t hammer him with the Bible verses. If the conversation arises we take the opportunity to explain the gospel message. We’re not special, there are probably millions more like us across both nations, canukistan and the US of A.
BTW, Thx for that afternoon share… prayers answered more to come.
if he was a real christian he would have shot you so that you could find out whether or not you believe in god–
fake religion–
Half way there! You left off a zero off when you said this thread would only get 30 comments. I think you knew it would get a lot more than that. You did say at the beginning goal was (is always?) 300. It’s a life or death discussion…..sort of…..depending on what you believe.
No, I did not. I honestly thought 30, maybe 40, would be the max. First, it’s a review of an article already published here. Second, we’ve so beaten Covid to death here so, yet another article had Y-A-W-N potential. Third, the guy really is an arrogant asshole and folks don’t usually respond to that. Yes, I figured 30-40 max.
But, one NEVER really knows what will spark comments, and what will not.
For example, last week I submitted an article comparing America to a dementia patient. I thought that could hit 100. I mean, we have a Dementia POTUS! But, more seriously, I know for a fact that quite a few people here have family suffering from that god awful disease. Never saw an article make such a comparison either … and it was very well written. Seemed like gold to me. It got 5 comments. LOL
Read the thread but didn’t care to watch the vid. Yeah Bidet is as fucked up as a boiled okra sammich. But he ain’t nothing but a mouthpiece. Fuck him. I’m an older guy and can’t stomach anything about this shit or comparisons to some Anthony Hopkins role.
After living most of my adult life dealing with these same scum, I realize this shit will be with us forever. These mother fuckers don’t die. God help us because they are insatiable with their power trip.
If I could cobble together a little more cash to subsist for a decent retirement, shit I’d be so off the radar. But no, these fuckers can’t stop. John Kerry is another one that pisses my ass off to no end. I was watching that POS on the news when I was in the 6th grade. Fuck him. Too bad that bastard’s name isn’t on the wall in DC along with McStain. The country would be a better place.
Dr Gorski’s reply regarding Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE) is premature. Not enough time has passed to determine if ADE is going to occur or not. ADE happens when the host antibodies no longer neutralize the virus particle. This can occur in two different ways. First, if the antibodies generated by the vaccine drop to low levels and the virus survives the antibody attack. At this point, we do not know exactly how much antibody is required to prevent infection nor do we know how long the antibody levels remain high enough to stop the virus. Second, if the virus mutates the antibody attachment point (antigen) the antibodies may not attach firmly enough and thus allow the virus to survive. These “vaccines” were developed using the virus spike protein (S protein) as the stimulating antigen to produce the antibody. The S protein represents about 13% of the surface structure of the virus. With normal vaccines the entire virus particle is used as the antigen giving a much broader antibody response and less chance for the virus to survive the immune system attack.
If ADE does occur further down the time line, it will not be pleasant. If you want a preview of the types of outcomes we could experience do a search for Feline Infectious Peritonitis or Dengue Fever vaccine.
Dr Gorski saying that million have been given the Covid vaccine with out ADE occurring is really misleading. Not enough time has passed to yet observe it. I am not saying ADE will occur. However, I don’t think Dr Gorske can say it won’t occur this early in the game.
1. It does NOT meet the classical definition of a vaccine.
2. It HAS NOT been approved by the FDA.
3. ALL contrarian information about the therapy is removed from social media and denied by bureaucrats.
4. The government told me it is safe and the government lies.
5. Every person who thinks they have power is telling me to get it.
6. I am just plain old hard headed.
The first article by Christian Elliott was humbly written and honest It was a well documented, factual, assessment.
The rebuttal by David Gorski reads like a half-baked and desperate attempt at damage control. It also reeks of condescending arrogance. If Elliot is such a nobody then why would he be given such attention by the esteemed Gorski.
First of all Gorski The Debunker, in the full version of his letter, and by his own admission, says his rebuttal is a “cliff notes version”.
So he starts out by making excuses, and, in truth, his itemized rebuttals only address a fraction of Elliot’s well documented concerns.
For example, Gorski absolutely did NOT debunk antibody dependent enhancement (ADE). He neither mentions the animal studies that were addressed by Elliot nor does he acknowledge the fact that humans were not reintroduced to the wild virus in the testing of the current covid vaccines.
But perhaps most telling is the fact that Gorsky does not even concede the possibility of ADE occurring within the next several months or years.
To not even acknowledge the future possibility of ADE, while listen to acknowledge the previous animal studies in his “cliffs notes” version, is disingenuous, to say the least. In fact it is exactly what someone might do who has an agenda like…. let’s say…. debunking a damaging vaccine article on behalf of his corporate masters?
Because if Gorski is actually concerned for the welfare of the masses, then why the half-baked rebuttals combined with such condescension and disdain?
Furthermore, Gorsky, like all other of the anti-vaccine “debunkers” utilizes a deceptive means to claim that mRNA does not change the DNA of cells. It doesn’t, but it does create a spike protein that absolutely does change the DNA of cells. That’s what cancer is, spike proteins changing the function of cell DNA.
Grsky also mentions “Plandemic” but he doesn’t link to the actual website. I wonder why? No, actually, I don’t wonder because… here’s why:
Go to: plandemicseries.com
Gorsky, also resorts to making accusations of “conspiracy theories” and, in the age of Covid, this is de facto admission to losing the argument. Again, what is conspiracy if not two or more making secret plans? Gorski, on the other hand, would have us believe the elite billionaires in the vaccine companies are beyond such impropriety.
I mean, seriously, it’s laughable.
Yet, in the same article under his rebuttal to item number 14 he says this without providing ANY documentation whatsoever:
Yeah, people will believe that bullsh*t because they want to.
I know someone who doesn’t want to get the vaccine but his wife did want to get her shots. I actually sent him Elliott’s 18 reasons and he was blown away and forwarded it onto his wife and friends.
One of his liberal friends sent him Gorsky’s rebuttal that Stucky posted above and his wife, after reading Gorsky’s article took her first Moderna shot.
Only time will tell if she’ll be dead in the next 18 to 24 months because her chances were very small of dying from covid in that time. Ya know? But people like Gorsky would argue that her life was worth the risk of the vaccine
Now we wait.
And, until then, it is an information war, so choose carefully.
In closing, I’ll leave you with a segment from my last article here that is undeniable and, as you read it, ask yourself if these people and organizations have earned your trust:
Note that Elliot did not even bring these considerations to your attention and his article. At the same time, realize that it is Gorski who is asking you to trust these elite billionaires and their organizations as synthetic pharmaceuticals are injected into your bloodstream.
About time you showed up.
I suspected that if you decided to post something, that it would be one of the very best comments. And I was right. You did an excellent job rebutting the rebutter.
Thanks for directing us to the plandemicseries.com website. Haven’t seen that yet. Will be sure to watch it.
Please make sure you read my “grape” post above.
Just tryin’ to get you to 300 ole buddy. Great post, BTW
Out of town and typing sans glasses (with fat fingers) on a cellular telephonic device. Tricky business. Hence the grammatical errors and typos. But just wanted to weigh in and I’ve really enjoyed the commentary paired to Heir Stuchenmeister’s stirring of the pot
Facebook has removed a popular, rapidly growing group where members would post stories about alleged negative COVID-19 vaccine side effects.
The group, “COVID19 VACCINE VICTIMS AND FAMILIES,” had over 120,000 followers when it was shut down and had been gaining more than 10,000 followers per week.
.
https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/79772/facebook-deletes-120000member-group-where-people-posted-stories-of-alleged-adverse-vaccine.html
Stucky- I think SSS still holds the award for highest downer count in a thread at -200. You may pass him, God rest his soul, what are you trying to achieve with this ? TPTB has legions of “experts” promoting the jab , doesn’t mean you can trust what they publish. Good Lord…….
201 !!!
Trying to expand people’s minds …. without needing LSD.
Trying to stimulate discussion … without resorting to porn.
Trying to get people to the Light … without posting Bible verses.
Trying to make friends and influence people ….
My comment was 200, just sayin’.
SSS was a piker.
I am at 485 Down Votes!!!”
Who can I insult to get me to 500?
—- How can you tell if you’re in a gay church? Only half the congregation is kneeling.
Maybe 15 Catholics and/or fags can vote me down.
There is a reason I’m skeptical of everything surrounding this alleged virus and it’s vaccines and Gorski’s thinly veiled slander piece. Event 2012 mentioned by Uncola plus a nearly identical one 10 years before that is recent but it goes back much further. Big Pharma and the AMA owe their near monopolies to John Rockefeller.
Here is a short you tube version.
Stuckey, are you a person of color? Is that what’s causing your pain?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EziBmqWVoAAFfSi?format=jpg
I hope you make it to 300. Thanks for posting this rebuttal. I prefer to see all sides and not live in an echo chamber. A debate between these two would be something to see.
I never heard of his rebuttal (program) to point number one, so thanks again. My hackles were raised at the word tax. Turns out it’s an excise tax. My understanding is that is placed on the manufacturer. The governmemt is diverting a portion of that to a reimbursement program for injuries. Sounds like the manufacturer may indirectly be just telling the govt to make this go away. I could be wrong. Oh yeah, did he mention that $4bn has been settled and 2/3 of the cases were denied? Data from 2018 so slightly outdated. It can only grow.
Sounds like a good program. /sarc.
Next, he is admitting that this broader experiment has been going on for only 4 months. His peers have not given the treatment thumbs up because of troubling side effects, yet we should just accept the risk and take the jab? No thank you.
I will not be taking the jab, even after reading his point of view.
Thanks again for sharing .
You’re welcome.
One of the things I forgot to mention that I did not include from his original article …. he told people to do further fact-checking regarding what he wrote by going to Snopes.
Snopes! Bwahahahahahaha!!!
I’m late to this party. My main rebuttal to his points has already been argued. It’s mainly a bait and switch. His fact-check on the liability issue CONFIRMS the lack of liability for manufacturers, while ridiculing people who find it concerning. He confirms the absence of long term safety studies and wants to substitute the safety studies of traditional vaccines. That’s a different product, different mechanism of action, completely irrelevant.
What I can tell you about VAERS is, not much. In the last week, I coded charts for a 64 year old with a life altering stroke three weeks after her pfizer 2nd dose. Did ANYONE question that? Nope. It’s nowhere in the notes, I dug it out if a different record to see her shot. So what are the odds that anyone is filing a VAERS report? Pretty much nil. 54 year old with a PE four days after Moderna. No one noted the vx in the chart except the ultrasound tech. Vaers? Doubt it. Does it mean anything? WHO KNOWS!?!! They UNBLINDED the study groups and offered the vx to the placebo group. We will literally never know.
You may be late to the party … but, that’s a most helpful perspective on VAERS … especially coming from a bona fide nurse.
Good night, everyone.
Thank you ALL for the fun, lively, interesting, and most of all, informative discussions.
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Interesting to note that there hasn’t been ANY post diverting from the topic at hand. For a 200+ comment count, that’s really realy unusual!! Nice job, folks!