Why this post? I have about a dozen web sites in my political-favorites folder which I visit on most days. In the past couple of weeks EVERY single one them had at least one article about nuclear confrontation with Russia. That shit is fucked up and shit. That’s why.
“This Is Your Life” was a 30 minute Teevee show (a “reality” show, actually) on Nothing But Crap (NBC) for nine seasons (1952 – 1961). An unsuspecting celebrity or an exceptional common citizen was brought to the television studios under some untrue pretext. They wouldn’t realize what was happening until they were on camera and the show had begun. Then Ralph Edwards would tell them, “This is Your Life!” — and start telling their life story. When the story included someone important from their past, that person would come out on the stage. Most of those people hadn’t seen the “honoree” in years or even decades. It was supposed to be a look at your favorite comedian, actor, politician, etc. as a human being instead of a celebrity.
However, the show was designed to manipulate the viewer’s emotions …. usually, tears …. Saturday Evening Post once called the program “the weepiest show on television.” What they did was often shameful … as you will see in the following story …. the Hiroshima Story.
John Hersey’s landmark 1946 book, Hiroshima, documents, among other things, Reverend Kiyoshi Tanimoto’s story.
Kiyoshi Tanimoto was a Japanese-born, American-educated Methodist minister who had a parish in Hiroshima. Fate spared Tanimoto on that August 6, 1945 morning because he happened to be helping a friend move some family belongings to a house in Koi, a western suburb outside of the direct blast zone. After seeing the flash of The Bomb, Tanimoto instinctively dove between two large rocks. Debris from the collapsed house fell near the minister, but he emerged uninjured and was able to bear witness to the hideous aftermath.
THE KELOID GIRLS
After the war, Tanimoto began working with a group of women disfigured by the Bomb—a humanitarian effort that would eventually lead to his appearance on This Is Your Life. On August 6, 1945 of that horrific day, these women, who were school girls at the time of the bombing, had been ordered to help tear down houses and clear fire lanes. They were among a larger contingent of girls directed to partake in this task because Hiroshima was on alert for conventional firebombing raids. Most of these school girls were, of course, killed in the blast. Those who survived had horrible burns and soon developed keloids (scar tissue) on their faces and other parts of their bodies. When Tanimoto asked the American-established Atomic Bomb Casualty Commission to provide the women with plastic surgery, the minister’s request fell on deaf ears.
The Japanese local newspapers dubbed them Genbaku Otome, or, as translated into English, A-bomb Maidens. Eventually, doctors Arthur Barsky and William Hitzig selected twenty-five women who were deemed the most likely to benefit from the surgery. The Maidens left for New York, along with Reverend Tanimoto, on May 5, 1955. The American press reported on their trip with an editorial tone akin to that of a freak show advertisement. Headlines such as “Atom-Scarred Jap Girls Pray Before U.S. Trip” and “…A-Bomb Jap Girls To Get Plastic Surgery” were typical.
“This is Your Life” —- HORROR SHOW SURPRISE
Tanimoto was in America to RAISE FUNDS for these women. He was told by a friend to come to the West Coast to start another speaking and fundraising tour. On May 11th the minister arrived, as scheduled, at the NBC Studios in Hollywood for what he was told would be a local news interview.
Minutes after meeting Ralph Edwards for the first time, Tanimoto was surprised to find himself at the center of something that was quite obviously more than just a local news program. At 7 p.m. local time, Edwards began the show seated on a divan smiling at the camera. There was a sound effect of a ticking clock that grew louder as his opening remarks progressed.
“Good evening ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to This Is Your Life. The ticking you hear in the background is a clock counting off the seconds to 8:15 a.m., August 6, 1945. And seated here with me is a gentleman whose life was changed by the last tick of that clock as it reached 8:15.”
At this point Tanimoto, who was seated next to Edwards, was introduced. The minister was wearing a baggy suit and a stunned expression. Can you even begin to imagine the horror? The audience laughed when he confessed to Edwards that he had never heard of his program.
Edwards continued,
“We have been working for weeks with your friends Norman Cousins, editor of the Saturday Review, John Hersey, author of the best-selling book Hiroshima, and many others to bring you to our stage tonight so we could retell the story of your life. The facts are between the covers of this book. You will meet many people who have helped shape your destiny, and we hope that at the end of this half-hour you will have had some pleasant moments…And that you, ladies and gentlemen, will have a better understanding of what it is to look into the face of atomic power—to survive and die. Now we will pick up the threads of your life in a moment, Reverend Tanimoto, after this word from Bob Warren, our announcer, who has something very special to tell the girls in our audience. Bob?”
Did he actually say “pleasant moments”??? Are you fucking kidding me?? Was there ever a more horrifyingly disgusting surreal moment in the history of television? — “Hey folks! Looky here! We got us a bonafide A-Bomb survivor! Woo-fuckin-hoo! But, first, let’s hear from our sponsor, Helen Bishop Cosmetics. They got this nifty-keen nail polish! It’s even able to withstand industrial strength scrubbing!!”
THE EVIL BASTARD BEHIND THE CURTAIN
Tanimoto recounted how he and his friend had disregarded the commonplace air raid signals as they made their way to Koi with their pushcart. Then, a loud, disembodied Brooklyn-accented voice was heard from offstage:
“At zero six hundred on the morning of August 6, 1945, I was in a B-29 flying over the Pacific. Destination, Hiroshima.”
But, the Big Moment was not yet. Other figures from the Tanimots’s past were paraded before him, like Bertha Sparkey, the Methodist missionary who introduced him to Christianity as a boy.
The Big Moment came shortly after Tantimoto had finished describing the flash and the explosion. But, first, Edwards was moved to ask the most retarded question in the history of retarded television hosts: — “Did you know Hiroshima had been the first city to feel the force of atomic power?” The minister, of course, replied, — “I didn’t know what happened.” He then added that he had asked for God’s help which prompted another vocal interruption from Lewis from behind the door:
“And looking down from thousands of feet over Hiroshima, all I could think of was, ‘My God, what have we done?’”
Cue that velvety smooth voice; :
“The voice again of a man whose second of eternity was woven up with yours, Reverend Tanimoto. Now you have never met him, you’ve never seen him, but he’s here tonight to clasp your hand in friendship. Ladies and gentlemen, Captain Robert Lewis, United States Air Force, who along with Paul Tibbets piloted the plane from which the first atomic power was dropped over Hiroshima.”
Cue the music ……….. out walks the fucker who dropped the bomb …. to give history’s most awkward handshake with Tanimoto. The audience applauds.
The sonofabitch calls on God! When Edwards asked Lewis to describe his “experience” on the fateful day, the former airman hesitated for a moment and then began — “As I said before, Mr. Edwards…I wrote down later…” Choking up on these last words, Lewis put his hand to his forehead to steady himself, and then repeated his earlier line, “My God, what have we done?”
Edwards took special care to point out to his millions of viewers the dual invocation of the almighty by the bomber and victim:
“And so, Reverend Tanimoto, you on the ground, and you on your military mission, Captain Lewis, in the air, both appeal to a power greater than your own. Almost at the same moment you both utter the same words: My God. Thank you, Robert Lewis, now personnel manager at Henry Heide Incorporated in New York City.”
The audience applauded.
PURCHASING REDEMPTION FOR A MERE $500 BUCKEROOS.
The hope was that the show would raise a million dollars. Americans contributed a pathetically measly $55,000. Captain Lewis was expecting a fat check for appearing on the show. The day before the show he discovered he would be getting nothing, so he got drunk, and came on the show with a hangover. Lewis made a big show of forking over $500, his guilt now sufficiently assuaged. The audience applauded. He died of a heart attack in 1983 (age 66), and is now a citizen of Hell.
AFTERMATH
So, “This is your life” will someday be “This is your future”. More than likely, some day some evil satanic leader will decide “Hey, we’re losing this war. Let’s exterminate humanity.”. And some evil military drone soldier – “Just following orders, sir!” — will push the button.
But, nobody will be left alive to watch the apology on TV.
In 1948, the English-speaking Tanimoto embarked upon a lengthy speaking tour of the United States to raise funds for his church that was destroyed by the “Little Boy” atomic weapon. The minister gave 582 lectures on what he had learned from the tragedy of the Bomb. The title of his speech was “The Faith That Grew Out of the Ashes”
That, folks, is grace in action. If that was me, I would have titled a sermon – “Rot in hell you evil fucking bastards.”
Here is a five minute video with clips from the show AND one of the surviving Keloid Girls. It’s really worth a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=c_58byuLBu0
Here is the full show part 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZYx4syf2oY&feature=player_detailpage
Here is the full show part 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0m8D6APp64&feature=player_detailpage
.
SOURCE: Most of the pictures and narrative come from this webpage, which contains much more detailed information;
http://conelrad.blogspot.com/2010/08/hiroshima-this-is-your-life.html
Warfare has changed. Our side no longer tries to kill the other guys. HNIC wants to start a jobs program and outreach to the Mohammedans. That way the USA won’t be such a bunch of pricks.
Timely reminder on ZH right now.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-17/japan-preparing-war
Good work Ed sunsets, sticky and west coaster.
@ASIG & DC.Sunsets: Here’s a link both of gentlemen may find interesting:
http://www.dannen.com/decision/bardmemo.html
Asig: I can understand you have cognitive dissonance regarding the “decision” since it has been drummed into our collective heads that the Yanks are “the good guys”, but in this case no so much, and DC. Sunset: thanks for your supporting post.
This talk about nuclear warfare with Russia and Hiroshima is total nonsense. I agree with Llpoh’s and ASIG’s comments above. Billy’s comments were a disappointment.
Most of the rest of you, including Stucky, don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. You try to put war into your self-righteous view of what war, or certain events in a war, should or should not be. It doesn’t work that way. Never has, never will. Ever. War is violent, ugly, and horrible. And worst of all, it is unpredictable.
And I will tell you this. In my considerable experience, the most honorable warrior to ever take to the battlefield in the history of warfare is the American soldier. Well schooled or not, well trained or not, and well equipped or not, he has never let this nation down since the Revolutionary War.
You damn well better be grateful that he may have grown up on the block you live in.
If Japan had been turned over to the Chinese after the war ended, there would be no Japanese alive today.
If the fate of Japan had been determined by Americans that had been held in Japanese POW camps, there would be no Japanese alive today.
They got off easy.
@Stucky: Just saw your excellent posts and appreciate your point of view. I noticed a few sleazy bastards hope on with their contrary comments (after you had signed off for the nite), so just let me say this to the peanut gallery:
The U.S. is the only country that has used nukes on civilians. More recently we’ve also used white phosphorus, depleted uranium and drones equipped with hellfire missiles ON CIVILIANS.
The ONLY fucking reason any of this continues is these weapons have NEVER been used against “The Homeland”. Otherwise all these weapons would have been banned long ago and we would stop manufacturing this type of Human-killing shit! And it NEEDS to stop along with all the fucking spying on Americans!
1) A background to the atomic bombings on Japan. The hiroshima bomb was a simple gun type device. The scientists knew it would work so there was no testing required. The nagasaki bomb on the other hand was a much more sophisticated implosion design. That is why it was tested first.
Berlin would have made a poor target since it was already in ruins. Deploying the bombs had nothing to do with winning the war or motivating Japan to surrender…they had already been trying to surrender for months. It was rather an experiment. Several Japanese cities, Nagasaki and Horoshima among them, were spared conventional bombing and thus were virgin targets. The US military wanted to study the effects of atomic warfare.
2) Regarding LeMay’s utterance, the B29 was an utter failure as a strategic bomber. The jet stream was poorly understood at the time and it was discovered that you couldn’t hit jack shit at 35,000 feet. Bombs landed miles from their targets. Secondly, while 35,000 feet was at the extreme upper envelope of Japanese fighters, they did manage to take their best interceptor, the KI-44 and mount two massive 40 mm cannons on it. It proved effective in head on attacks since speed and climbing ability were non factors and all it took was a single hit to bring the plane down. B29 losses were unacceptably high.
LeMay knew that there was a gap between low level anti aircraft guns and high level anti aircraft artillery. It was about 500 ft think from 2,500 to 3,000 ft. Lemay had the B29’s equipped with incendiary bombs and the attacks were conducted at low level and at night. Japanese cities were very congested, with residential and commercial areas intermixed and many of the building constructed of wood. Far more damage was done to Japanese cities this way than by either atomic bomb, but the attacks were indescriminate. They did not target military or industrial sites but simply the entire urban area.
This is why he correctly identified himself as a war criminal.
Anyone saying that the Japanese were ready to surrender are guessing. What is a fact is that a few days after the bombing, the Japanese did in fact surrender.
There are many guesses available as to what may have happened.
The Russians took 600,000 Japanese soldiers prisoner AFTER the surrender – and an estimated 60,000 of them died. What would have happened if Russia had been actually fighting the Japanese if the war had continued, and took those same number of prisoners? How many of those 600,000 may not have surrendered at all? How many Russians would have died? How many civilians? Estimates of enormous military and civilian casualties and deaths have been made.
Also, if the war had not ended then, it is entirely possible that Japan may have been partitioned, much as had happened in Europe, with Russia getting half of Japan. What the consequences of that may have been is anyone’s guess, but it likely would not have been pretty.
Someone above said that no plans for invading the Japanese mainland existed – I disagree. The operation to invade Japan was codenamed Operation Olympic, or Operation Downfall, and was, to my knowledge to have occurred in late 1945 and in 1946. US casualty estimates were quite high, as the Japanese tended to fight to the death. For instance, of 30,000 Japanese soldiers on Saipan, only around 1000 were captured.
It is easy to guess what might have happened. Just about anything might have happened. But a lot of what might have happened could have been horrific – especially with regards to Russian involvement and the possibility of needing to invade the mainland in order to end the war.
We can play guessing games forever. But what is known is that the Japanese surrendered only a few days after the dropping of the bombs. Maybe the sum total of deaths and casualties would have been better without the use of the bombs, or maybe it would have been worse. We will never know.
War is hell. I am not sure what the number is – whether 200,00 deaths of the Japanese was better than 1 American death, or 10, or 100, or 10,000 or 100,000 or whatever. That is beyond my pay grade to know or understand, and thankfully I will never have to make such a decision. But in war, generally the rule is “the least of mine is better than the best of yours”. In war, we save ours and kill theirs. It is really that simple and that brutal.
I would never be an aggressor. But if I had to defend, I would do so ruthlessly. All of mine are better than the best of theirs, if lives are on the line.
Z says the Japanese had been trying to surrender. Bullshit. Trying my ass. They managed to surrender just fine after the bombs. Fact is, they wanted the 4 conditions I mentioned above met, even after they were bombed in Hiroshima.
SSS is dead right. On all points. Of all the soldiers who have ever lived, who would you want to be captured by? The Russians? Japanese? ISIS (if you can even come close to calling those sick fucks soldiers)? Or the Americans? The Americans have been a strong, hard fighting force with an inherent sense of decency even in the face of the brutality of war.
Westcoaster – no one has attacked Stuck overmuch since he signed off. I for one will comment when it pleases me.
What say you blow me. Unless you have signed off for the night.
Llpoh,
Did the bombs being dropped save American lives?
I don’t see how. There was absolutely zero reason to invade beyond what was done.
OTOH, the bombs did kill Americans.
We know for a fact that there were something like 17 US airmen in a jail, I believe in Hiroshima.
So stick that one in your hat. FWIW, my father was 3rd wave on Guadalcanal. Got moved to an aviation squadron so he survived the war (one of I think 17 in his COMPANY of 130, IIRC.) Once FDR maneuvered the USA into the war by baiting the Japanese, the die was cast and Americans were going to die. That’s what all rulers do best, get other people killed.
As to SSS, I expected nothing less. People who live in one Narrative cannot possibly escape it. My comments are like trying to describe the notion of “being wet” to a fish.
The fact remains that upwards of 3 million Vietnamese and untold Cambodians and Laotians died because people like SSS believed that, if the commies weren’t stopped in Indochina, we’d all be carrying Mao’s Little Red Book.
Millions of dead foreigners (men, women and children) slaughtered in indiscriminate bombing. 50,000 plus US dead. The US forced to leave.
In just a FEW DECADES Hanoi has a stock market.
WHY? What was accomplished, SSS? What about Iraq? What was accomplished by sanctions killing tens of thousands? What was accomplished by bombing sewage treatment plants, water facilities and other infrastructure meant to propagate disease?
This is the same argument as those backing nukes. People like SSS are so immersed in the us-vs-them narrative that they can’t see anything else.
If Hiroshima and Nagasaki were just events in history, that would be sad and cause for reflection.
Unfortunately, the FUCKING STUPIDITY that underlay the decision to drop the bombs is WITH US TODAY, in the form of SSS’ (I’m inferring here) “Anything the US does is OKAY” narrative.
If SSS is a former (or current) CIA employee, no surprises there. I have absolutely no doubt that Kennedy was murdered to prevent him from breaking up the CIA back in 1963. The CIA has been a government-within-a-government, running foreign policy (quite PROFITABLY, I’m sure, for insiders) ever since the Dulles brothers. You think there’s money in Microsoft stock, a la Bill Gates? Imagine access to the CIA’s slush fund. No accounting. No balancing the books. Just you, your buddies and a whole lot of sticky fingers.
If that’s your qualification SSS, there’s not one damn thing to say.
History rolls on. Ideologies come and go. Some people are in the wrong place at the wrong time, and they die or they join ill-fated movements. Sometimes people really want wars. They revel in slaughter and don’t seem to care if they are killed.
But if I had my druthers, those who feel that way would be segregated and allowed to slaughter each other, and leave the rest of us the hell alone.
Wait until the village they destroy “in order to save it” is your home town, with you in it.
Llpoh,
By 1946, the Japanese would have had operational jet fighters (the first test flight of the Kikka, a somewhat smaller version of the ME 262, occurred on the same day the Hiroshima bomb was dropped).
Target the aircraft carriers and troop ships with a plane that cannot be intercepted and mission fail.
So SSS, who’s the bad guy in the Ukraine gig?
Who broke their pledge NOT to push NATO to Russia’s front door?
Who is orchestrating putsches galore?
I know, it’s PUTIN! Or IRAN! Or is it a bunch of CIA-funded guys called ISIS, who have a real knack for uploading Youtube videos!
DC – you ignoramus – the bombs saved untold American lives. Unless of course you are suggesting that the US should have simply abandoned the war, packed their bags and gone home. Wonder how many US POWs would have survived being abandoned?
And for damn sure there is an argument to be made that the bombing perhaps saved a great many Japanese lives, as well. The Russians were not very kind to the Japanese. Any guesses that the Japs were going to surrender are just that, and there is lots of evidence to the contrary – their conditions were not going to be met.
Man, that is some kind of stupid. But then you outdo even that stupidity by blaming the CIA for Kennedy’s assassination. Holy shit, you really are in need of some help.
Plus, the words you put in SSS’s mouth are outrageous. I suspect you may hear about that more from him.
Z – interesting info. Not sure that jets could not be intercepted, but they would have been fast. Early jets did not turn very well, but if they needed to be fast and straight ahead then they were probably pretty formidable.
Getting back to Stucky’s second point, 1950’s tv programming was horrible. I agree with bb above, I come here for smart entertainment and worthwhile information.
ATT called, they want to give me free movies in addition to what I have now for the same price I’m paying TW. I told him I don’t watch TV, the church lady only watches Univision. He was shocked to hear we don’t watch TV together.
She is currently hooked on what looks like an Iranian soapy called Suleiman the Great Sultan on Telemundo. I like to re-watch Ohlala Couple, a Korean soap on Bing video every once in a while.
I can’t take another csi, cop, doctor, methlab, zombie, survival show any longer. There is a PR term that describes current TV fare adequately: porqueria, which means what it sounds like – pig scheisse.
bb says:
I thank God you guys have a sense of humor for the most part ,even Steve. This is the place I come to everyday just looking for good laugh.I know I probably kid around when I shouldn’t but I got no where else to go.
Your silly comments are a guilty pleasure. When I have nothing else to think about on the road, I think about them. The road can mess with your mind worse than gay porn. And focusing on Admin’s articles too much while driving can make you want to run into a telephone post.
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one”
When countries begin to lose a war some in leadership recognize it sooner than others and they would be the ones looking to arrange surrender at the same time other are determined to continue the fight to the last man. So to point to surrender talks and from that make the leap of logic that the entire country was ready and willing to lay down their weapons and surrender is false. The mentality of the Japanese Military in general and including the Military High Command had NO INTENTION OF EVER SURRENDERING.
“I missed your point between Hiroshima and today’s threat of nuclear warfare with Russia.”
———— SSS
You missed the point? Seriously?? Okay ….
When I read articles about a possible nuclear confrontation with Russia a number of questions immediately come to mind. Two immediate and important ones are;
— 1) How bad will THAT be?
— 2) WHICH leader would be stupid enough to start that exchange, and WHY?
Well, Grasshopper, since Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the ONLY examples to draw upon …. wouldn’t it make sense to try to answer those two questions by using those two cities as our referential starting point? I think so.
And, we can take it one step further.
The ANSWERS to those two questions — especially the second one — should give us an idea whether or not a Nuclear War is likely in mankind’s future. The answer is both “Yes” and “No”.
For the “yes” side, we have people like yourself, Llpoh, pavan, ASIG (well, there’s 4 thumbs down, right there), and a few others. You people say things like; war is hell, all of mine are better than the best of yours, do whatever it takes to win, they started it, we’re in the right & they are in the wrong, if we don’t do it first they will ….. and all other sorts of justifications.
While I am not accusing you people of WANTING a nuclear war … it is crystal clear that your justifications (and, approval) for dropping The Bombs in 1945 are exactly the same justifications for a nuke war sometime in the future … the ONLY things necessary are the right circumstances (which are already here) and the trigger (which is coming). Congratulations on being “right”.
The “no” side would like to preserve humanity, despite its many flaws.
“Anyone saying that the Japanese were ready to surrender are guessing.” —-Llpoh
That all you got? Of course it’s a guess since, you know, it didn’t happen! Why state the obvious … except to mislead? Not all guesses are created equal.
Let’s say the Yankees are playing the Phillies. The Yankees are ahead 25-0 when the game is called in the middle of the sixth inning due to inclement weather. A Yankee fan and Philly fan each make a guess. The Yankee fan guesses his team would have won, while the Philly fan guesses his team would have made a remarkable comeback and won. Two guesses …. one makes a lot of sense, while the other is fairly silly and is more of a “hope” than a guess.
You use the word “guess” to mislead us. You use the word “guess” as a synonym for “bullshit”, while ignoring the fact that a guess can be good or bad based on its REASONABLENESS.
And the guess that “Japan would have surrendered” is MUCH more reasonable than your guess that they wouldn’t have. I have provided two links @5:02PM whereby many people much smarter than you or I say that The Bomb was NOT necessary and, by any reasonable powers of deduction that meant Japan would have surrendered. Folks such as;
——– Winston Churchill, Dwight Eisenhower, General McArthur, Admiral Leahy, Under Sec. of State Joseph Grew, Under Sec. of the Navy Ralph Bard, Assistant Sec. of War John McCloy, Albert Einstein, …… just to name a few.
Hell yeah! Even HERBERT HOOVER felt the Japs were ready to surrender!! On May 28, 1945, Hoover visited President Truman and suggested a way to end the Pacific war quickly:
“I am convinced that if you, as President, will make a shortwave broadcast to the people of Japan – tell them they can have their Emperor if they surrender, that it will not mean unconditional surrender except for the militarists – you’ll get a peace in Japan – you’ll have both wars over.”
I guess you’re better informed than all of them, right?
” … the US was not at war with the Indians. There were treaties in place – remember?” –Llpoh
Hey ya ya ya heyya ho ho fuckmedead hey hey hoya heh!
Are you serious? You’d make a great POTUS. Kinda like Vietnam, eh? That wasn’t a war either … I believe they called it a ‘police action’, or some such nonsense. More recently, you have “kinetic action”.
Ya knows … when ya wipe out ninety percent of a population I’m pretty fucking sure that’s a goddamn war, whether or not ya wanna call it by that name is rather fucking irrelevant.
You’re quibbling over semantics. Fucking amazing.
I figure that if the situation is so bad that war is absolutely unavoidable, then war should be so balls to the wall horrendous that war will never be absolutely unavoidable. Oh, and the children and grandchildren of our politicians should always be the very first ones force conscripted into and deployed by the military to front line positions as NCO’s with flame throwers strapped to their backs.
Or, we could simply get rid of the central bankers and base our currency on something of intrinsic value and the problem will sort itself out without multi-million/multi-billion dollar war machines. When you have to convince the citizens to finance the slaughter of their own chirren with their own money, war gets downsized quick!
Some combination of the three would be ok too!
Small minds. Such small minds, with linear, concrete processes.
War comes and war goes.
War NEVER comes when times are good and stocks are high. They always occur after a period of declining living standards and dropping stocks, and the only logical answer consistent with the history is that negative people go to war, and it takes time to “get negative.” Stocks just measure that condition.
What we know is that the collective negativity runs its course.
Children and other concrete thinkers believe that, absent the US entry into WW2 and the crushing defeat of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany, the world would today be some sort of clone of those entities.
Concrete thinking yields static results. Nach.
In reality, wars don’t end because the top warriors run out of bullets. They end because it takes a village to propagate a war, and as the negativity that enabled the war wanes, so too does the villagers’ willingness to participate.
The USSR didn’t fold because of Reagan’s pissing away of trillions on F/A-18’s and submarines. The collective zeal for totalitarianism simply evaporated among its citizens.
I know, this is too abstract for 98% of the people reading or commenting here. But it is a description of how every conflict in history worked, and how a relatively short time after hostilities ended, the previous combatants are trading together and getting along just fine.
My point is that war is a natural part of human social behavior. It’s a sad, sick part, but it’s of our nature as a species. War comes and goes, and some wars are more bloody, more intense and more destructive than others. Rulers do manage the details of wars, and those who are complete psychopaths stack bodies higher than those who retain a shred of decency in their souls.
We face existential threats. The greatest of them are the handing of unimaginably destructive technologies to political rulers who are selected by a system that favors all the traits of sociopaths.
To celebrate the past decisions that hewed to producing greater body counts simply encourages such thinking in the present and future.
Maybe those who “love the bomb” don’t have kids or grandkids.
Certainly, those who “love the bomb” lack the capacity for abstract thought necessary to grasp how this world really does work, and how (historically speaking) our entire species stands on a precipice not because “the other guy is bad” but because those making the decisions are, in all cases, deranged by any decent standard.
I wonder what Llpoh et al think of the more recent thread, “Apocalypse How?” I wonder if any of them connect the dots between the decisions 70 years ago and the consequences of political confrontations today?
“Stuck – you seem to not understand war. It is about killing and destroying. They try to kill you, you try to kill them. …….. How naive you are.” ———– Llpoh
— Did you feel a twinge of guilt, shame, or remorse as you typed that? You should.
— Do you really and honestly think I am that stupid? You shouldn’t.
— Or, did you write that solely with the intent of flinging a little poo? That’s cool.
Yes, Llpoh, I DO get it. You’re an “all in” type of guy. If nuking civilians saves American lives, go for it! I get it. War IS hell. And once it starts — which you abhor — the gloves come off in a No Limits fight to the finish.
BUT … not even most nations of the world believe that. Most nations believe that even in war some actions are so heinous that they ought not to be done … as spelled out in the Geneva Convention.
No before you get on your high horse and yell out to the world –“Hahaha, look at Stucky! That maroon thinks the Geneva Convention will be kept in a war!!” – nope! I get that too … that in battle all that shit just flies out the window.
But, here’s the thing; most nations and people at least believe IN PRINCIPLE that you just can’t willy-nilly do whatever the fuck you want, even in war. You don’t even agree in the principle.
“Billy’s comments were a disappointment.” — SSS
Oh, I’m sorry… I didn’t know it was my responsibility to entertain you around here…
Please enlighten me. What, exactly, was disappointing about my comments? Not hawkish enough for you? Not dovish enough? Not funny enough? Not doomer enough?
Please… by all means speak your mind. Otherwise, how else will I up my game?
In an effort to make nuclear war more humorous, I present to you:
FAMOUS QUOTES IN HISTORY!!!
“What the fuck was that?!?” – Japanese Emperor Hirohito, August 6th, 1945
llpoh says: “Z – interesting info. Not sure that jets could not be intercepted, but they would have been fast. Early jets did not turn very well, but if they needed to be fast and straight ahead then they were probably pretty formidable.”
The German ME-262 jets were about 100MPH faster than our 400MPH P-51, yet Chuck Yeager shot down two of them.
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This thread is getting interesting. It’s seems to be a throwback to the good old nasty TBP. I’m getting me some popcorn.
“Most of the rest of you, including Stucky, don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. You try to put war into your self-righteous view of what war, or certain events in a war, should or should not be. It doesn’t work that way. Never has, never will. Ever. War is violent, ugly, and horrible.”
—————- SSS
You’re a lying sack of shit … it oozes out of every pore.
No, I don’t have two parents who languished in Russian prison camps. No, all but four of my relatives were not killed in WWII. No, I wasn’t in the USAF between 1971-1975. No, I didn’t have a single friend who died in Vietnam. No, I didn’t personally witness the carnage at Athens airport when Palestinians blew up dozens of people and I didn’t see body parts hanging from the ceiling. No, I don’t have access to tons of information (articles, books, TV, Internet … etc) which more than adequately explains the horrors of war.
Yes, I am a dummy. Yes, I think wars should be clean and nicey-nice. Yes, war should be mostly like an argument, except with guns.
You lying motherfucker. You take one example — that I believe dropping the Bomb was evil and unnecessary — and turn me into some tiptoeing through the tulips Tiny Tim peacenik caricature. You dickfuk! When you lose an argument, or can’t come up with a reasonable retort to a well placed argument … you just start making shit up. Fuckoff. You just can’t escape your CIA lying roots, can you?
Funny thing..Loopy, the empathic, always yammering on about the mass murder of the whooping red warriors of North American and other injustices inflicted on the noble savage by a ruthless bloodthirsty US military , now defending same institution for mass murdering hundred of thousands of Nips for not surrendering quick enough….go figure…the cat is complex.
If the Allies could manage naval blockade against Germany prior to 1919 , thereby forcing a starving Germany into surrender under terms set in the Versailles Treaty, why not blockade Japan for a few months to let the smoke clear and see if Japan’s capitulation to surrender term was even possible ?
No ,It was a mad rush to subjugate the Nips ,before the Ruskies had a chance to enter the Pacific theater, and force the US to divvy up some of those spoils of war, too. And the mass murder of the innocent by nuclear fire, solved that problem of sharing Nippon booty with those damn Ruskies once and for all…..sorry Uncle Joe , no more Yalta for you!
“…. the most honorable warrior to ever take to the battlefield in the history of warfare is the American soldier.” ———— SSS
Us, good!! Them, bad!! So says every citizen about their soldiers. You ain’t no different than the average bear.
“Josh Steiber and Ethan Mccord, two former soldiers from the Army Unit responsible for the Wikileaks “Collateral Murder” attack in July 2007 in which US forces wounded two children and killed over a dozen people, have written an open letter of “Reconciliation and Responsibility.”
American soldier terrorizing a child
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Just a few “bad apples”, right, SSS?
“Funny thing..Loopy, the empathic, always yammering on about the mass murder of the whooping red warriors of North American and other injustices inflicted on the noble savage by a ruthless bloodthirsty US military , now defending same institution for mass murdering hundred of thousands of Nips for not surrendering quick enough….go figure…the cat is complex.” ——– flash
+ one hundred billion trillion
(But, we were never at war with the Indians!)
Admin
I have yet begun to fight.
Llpoh and SSS were “relatively” nice prior to my early exit last night. Wait until they see my responses from today. Only three possible actions they can take at this point;
— 1) Start flinging shit, lies, and curses at a new level not seen before
— 2) Basically no responses to my impeccable logic
— 3) Beg and grovel for my forgiveness
A smart person would take Option 3. But they are not smart — pretty obvious from this thread — so, I am expecting Option 1.
SSS- the most honorable warrior to ever take to the battlefield in the history of warfare is the American soldier.”
Obviously one’s view of honor is wholly subjective..
[img]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gomX2OnshzM[/img]
again..
Bush Says He Will Harm Nation Differently Than His Brother
By Andy Borowitz
CHICAGO (The Borowitz Report) — In an effort to distance himself from the legacy of his brother, George W. Bush, former Florida Governor Jeb Bush will use a major foreign-policy speech on Wednesday to assert that, if elected President, he would harm the nation in completely different ways.
“A lot of people are looking at me and thinking that I’m just going to be a rerun of my brother,” Bush told reporters before the speech. “They are greatly underestimating my ability to create chaos and destruction in ways that are uniquely mine.”
As an example, Bush said, he was unlikely to invade Iraq for a third time, calling such an action “too derivative.”
“George already did it, and Dad did it before him,” he said. “Call it my independent streak, if you will, but I want to spawn some disasters of my own.”
To that end, Bush said that he and his foreign-policy team were already scanning the globe for “new and different places” where the United States could become involved in open-ended and pointless quagmires.
“I see boundless opportunities for the reckless and totally optional insertion of American military force,” he said. “No offense to my brother, but there were a few spots that George missed.”
US Sends “Tankbuster” Jets To Europe Over Russia Fears After Germany Says “A Large Scale War Could Develop”
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 02/18/2015 11:27 -0500
Karl-Georg Wellmann, a lawmaker in Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union has warned that, despite its efforts to avoid arms being provided to Ukraine, Germany “will no longer be able to stop weapons deliveries from from the U.S. and Canada.” Almost too coincidental to these comments, CNN reports, the U.S. Air Force is sending its A-10 “tankbusters” back to Europe in order to “increase rotational presence in Europe to reassure our allies and partner nations that our commitment to European security is a priority.” As Wellmann ominously concludes, seemingly confirming Putin’s warning yesterday that if Kiev aims at a military solution, war will never end, “a large-scale war could develop out of that.”
As Bloomberg reports, Germany May Be Unable to Stop Weapons to Ukraine, Lawmaker Says
Karl-Georg Wellmann, a lawmaker in Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union and chairman of the German-Ukrainian parliamentary group, tells newspaper Tagesspiegel that Germany won’t be able to halt U.S. weapons deliveries to Ukraine to fight Russian-supported separatists.
“We will no longer be able to stop weapons deliveries from from the U.S. and Canada” after rebel gains in the strategic town of Debaltseve in eastern Ukraine, Wellmann tells Tagesspiegel in interview
“A large-scale war could develop out of that,” Wellmann says
Wellmann says further economic sanctions against Russia are “unavoidable,” Tagesspiegel says
And so, as CNN reports, The US is sending in the Warthogs…
The U.S. Air Force is sending its “tankbusters” back to Europe.
The service’s European Command said this week that 12 A-10 Thunderbolts would be deployed to Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany, as part of Operation Atlantic Resolve, which was formed after Russia’s intervention in Ukraine over the past year.
“The Air Force is increasing rotational presence in Europe to reassure our allies and partner nations that our commitment to European security is a priority,” Lt. Gen. Tom Jones, vice commander, United States Air Forces in Europe — Air Forces Africa, said in a statement.
The Air Force said besides operating in Germany, the A-10s will be forward deployed to other partner nations in Eastern Europe. U.S. forces have operated out of bases in Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and Poland, among others, in the past year.
The A-10, also known as the “Warthog,” was designed in the 1970s to support ground troops in Europe against the tanks and armored vehicles of the then-Soviet Union. Though the jets can carry a variety of bombs and missiles, they are best known for their nose-mounted, seven-barrel 30 mm Gatling gun that can fire almost 4,000 rounds per minute, enough to quickly blow apart a tank. The planes are also durable, with the pilot protected from ground fire by a wrapping of titanium often called “the bathtub.” And they are designed for easy maintenance in battlefield areas, with interchangeable parts for the right and left sides of the aircraft.
* * *
Not exactly the act of a peace-seeking force following a “truce”? But then again… Washington was not included in the Minsk Summit so apparently feels free to stir things up explicitly.
“The service’s European Command said this week that 12 A-10 Thunderbolts would be deployed to Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany …” ———— article above
12? heh heh heh.
Just one or two of these will take care of that.
“The nukes saved a huge number of American soldiers lives. The Japanese wouldn’t surrender even after the first nuke was dropped. The Japanese started the war, refused to surrender, and the US did what was necessary to end it and save our soldiers lives.”
This is just about totally wrong. In fact, it is the propaganda that was broadcast to assuage American consciences about incinerating a city full of civilians (Dresden was conventional ordinance incineration of civilians so no need to feel bad about it).
In fact, most of the old guard military leadership abhorred the concept of inflicting this hell on civilians. Eisenhower, MacArthur and others felt it was completely unnecessary as Hiroshima was not even a military target. It was chosen because it had been largely untouched by the war and the CIVILIAN LEADERSHIP wanted a clean slate to work with so the Russians would have a clear picture of what we possessed. A city already hit would not be nearly so impressive but hey, when you can do a now you see it, now you don’t with an entire city, even the Ruskies have to give you your props.
The Japanese intransigence about surrender by the time of Hiroshima was almost totally due to CIVILIAN LEADERSHIP demands that the emperor face war crimes charges, etc. MacArthur understood the role of the emperor in Japanese life and knew he would be need to help keep a shattered society from further disintegration.
So no, your daddy wasn’t saved becasue they incinertaed school girls, as attractive a proposition as that may appear to the many amoral assholes who thi
You guys really are a hoot. Dumb as shit, but a hoot nevertheless. First, Stuck compares the war with the Japs to the slaughter of the Indians, then when that comparison fails morphs that into something re Vietnam. Damn, talk about a shift.
Basically, you fuckwits want to yammer on about what an atrocity dropping the bomb was. Yep, it was horrible. And you want to say that the Japs were ready to surrender, oh yes they were. All evidence to the contrary. Some folks thought they were, but no they were not.
The intercepted messages after the first bomb prove that, and the message after the second did as well. They wanted the empire t continue, or they were prepared to fight on.
No mention of the scenarios that I posted – that the Ruskies were coming, and the Japs would not have done well in that situation. That does not suit your guessing – and you are guessing out your ass. Your guess is that the US would not have lost substantially more men, despite a very possible need to invade the main
And, the Japs would have rushed to surrender, and you ignore totally the involvement of the Russians.
You are trying hard to guess outcomes, but ignore incredibly salient facts.
The facts are after the bombs the Japs surrendered, the country was rebuilt, none of the mainland fell to the Russians, only 60,000 Japs died at the hands of the Russians instead of what may have been untold more, Americans stopped dying, etc. and fact is, once the Russians were involved, who knows what terms they may have demanded. Maybe they would have wanted the end of the empire, and so the war might have continued.
As I said, you twits are a hoot. You want to rewrite history via guessing what would have happened, and ignore any variables that do not suit your narrative.
And, by the way, I find the whole “but the military wanted to do such and such but the evil civilians would not let them” line to be total bullshit, and perhaps the stupidest of all the things being said.
Thank God that the US, still, has a military that does the bidding of its civilian leaders, flawed as that system often is, because the reverse is even worse.
“Stuck compares the war with the Japs to the slaughter of the Indians, ” —- Chief Loopy
Indians — mostly innocent folks who were slaughtered with superior weapons (guns, canon, ..), and amoral presidents who didn’t give a fuck about redskins. Japs in Nagasaki and Hiroshima — mostly civilian folks who were slaughtered with a superior weapon (A Bomb), and an amoral president who didn’t give a fuck about yellow Japs. Llpoh — too dumb to see the similarities.
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” … then when that comparison fails morphs that into something re Vietnam.” — Chief Loopy
Says da United States was never at war with the Indians. Stuck points out how how fucking ignorant that comment is …. using Vietnam ONLY as a comparison of similar semantic bull-shittery because that’s how that war …. err, police action … was also parsed to Amerikan sheep. Llpoh — to dumb to understand simple analogies.
“They wanted the empire to continue, or they were prepared to fight on.” —- Chief Loopy
Somebody above is too damn stupid to realize that “prepared to fight on” is VASTLY different from “being ABLE to fight on”. hahahaha
Try to point Llpoh to literally dozens of quotes from very high level military and political leaders that the Japs were toast without us having to drop the bomb. What does he do? Sticks his head in the sand while exposing the other head, the one with more brain cells.
You just can’t teach that kind of stoopid. Damn. You’ve been eating to many lizard assholes, or whatever the fuck it is that Choctaws eat.
“Thank God that the US, still, has a military that does the bidding of its civilian leaders, flawed as that system often is,” ———- Llpoh, secret warmonger and Statist
Whoop! Whoop! Hiya heya heh heh ho, kill an Injun and then one mo’.
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US Sends “Tankbuster” Jets To Europe Over Russia Fears After Germany Says “A Large Scale War Could Develop”
Why send the A-10’s back in? After all, they have been declared obsolete.
Stucky, the A-10 is a battle hardened and battle tested tank killing machine. I’m not saying they can’t be shot down but they are armored where it counts and can sustain a hell of a lot of damage and keep flying.
I see that my 2 comments were greeted with the usual standing O. Heh. Let me first reply to the “King of Putting Words Into Other People’s Mouths,” dc sunsets, who said ….
“So SSS, who’s the bad guy in the Ukraine gig?” The West, for backing a dictatorial overthrow of a democratically-elected president. Same thing for Libya, where the West, led by the Clinton State Department, backed the overthrow of a (finally) stable dictator in favor of groups with obvious connections to terrorism.
“Who broke their pledge NOT to push NATO to Russia’s front door?” Don’t know anything about a so-called pledge, but NATO went WAY too far in trying to surround Russia’s western border with countries that eventually became members of NATO. That was a provocation totally uncalled for and a huge mistake. Russia doesn’t like unfriendly nations on its borders. Never has.
“Who is orchestrating putsches galore?” Be more specific. At least name some countries, you idiot.
“I know, it’s PUTIN! Or IRAN! Or is it a bunch of CIA-funded guys called ISIS, who have a real knack for uploading Youtube videos!” Did I blame Putin or Iran above? Uh, no. The “CIA-funded ISIS” charge is unworthy of response.
Now that I have put dc unrest in his place, I will move on to Billy. Stucky will just have to wait his turn.
When I was a kid, ANYTHING made in Japan was considered substandard junk and you would NEVER give anyone a gift stamped “Made In Japan”. They were thought of as backward wooden cart agrarian types. TPTB moved them to the top of the list to be elevated into the economic powerhouse they morphed into over the forty years from 1945 to 85. Global banking used them like a Saturday night whore. Most any debt chart will show you who has been banged the most.
So far as the use of nukes, I don’t see how you can dismiss the Soviet declaration of war August 9, 1945 (The Soviet-Japanese War). Hiroshima bombed on August 6th and Nagasaki hit on August 9th.
Sounds to me like POTUS and the war room were moving the spotlight off the Soviets. IMO was still a horrific act by the USA!USA!USA!.
@ Flash No ,It was a mad rush to subjugate the Nips ,before the Ruskies had a chance to enter the Pacific theater, and force the US to divvy up some of those spoils of war, too. And the mass murder of the innocent by nuclear fire, solved that problem of sharing Nippon booty with those damn Ruskies once and for all…..sorry Uncle Joe , no more Yalta for you!
Of all the statements above…this one is the most correct.
This one ain’t bad…@ DC My comments are like trying to describe the notion of “being wet” to a fish.
SSS’s comments at 5:56 prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the he (SSS) lives in polar opposite universe than most of TBP community.
Stuck and crew once again make shit up. The Japs would have been able to defend the mainland at a ratio of 1:1. That means the attackers would have very significant problems indeed:
“The intelligence revelations about Japanese preparations on Kyushu emerging in mid-July transmitted powerful shock waves both in the Pacific and in Washington. On 29 July, [MacArthur’s intelligence chief, Major General Charles A.] Willoughby… noted first that the April estimate allowed for the Japanese capability to deploy six divisions on Kyushu, with the potential to deploy ten. “These [six] divisions have since made their appearance, as predicted,” he observed, “and the end is not in sight.” If not checked, this threatened “to grow to [the] point where we attack on a ratio of one (1) to one (1) which is not the recipe for victory.”
In other words, there was a very real possibility that the invasion of the mainland would fail. The invasion was going to involve hundreds of thousands of US troops. Against similar numbers of Japanese troops. The death and casualty toll would have been enormous, of both military and civilians.
Sorry to let the facts get in the way of your fairy tale, Stuck.
“In a letter sent to Gen. Curtis LeMay from Gen. Lauris Norstad, when LeMay assumed command of the B-29 force on Guam, Norstad told LeMay that if an invasion took place, it would cost the US “half a million” dead.
In a study done by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in April, the figures of 7.45 casualties/1,000 man-days and 1.78 fatalities/1,000 man-days were developed. This implied that a 90-day Olympic campaign would cost 456,000 casualties, including 109,000 dead or missing. If Coronet took another 90 days, the combined cost would be 1,200,000 casualties, with 267,000 fatalities.
A study done by Adm. Nimitz’s staff in May estimated 49,000 U.S casualties in the first 30 days, including 5,000 at sea.[53] A study done by General MacArthur’s staff in June estimated 23,000 US casualties in the first 30 days and 125,000 after 120 days.[54] When these figures were questioned by General Marshall, MacArthur submitted a revised estimate of 105,000, in part by deducting wounded men able to return to duty.
In a conference with President Truman on June 18, Marshall, taking the Battle of Luzon as the best model for Olympic, thought the Americans would suffer 31,000 casualties in the first 30 days (and ultimately 20% of Japanese casualties, which implied a total of 70,000 casualties).
Adm. Leahy, more impressed by the Battle of Okinawa, thought the American forces would suffer a 35% casualty rate (implying an ultimate toll of 268,000).
Admiral King thought that casualties in the first 30 days would fall between Luzon and Okinawa, i.e., between 31,000 and 41,000.
Of these estimates, only Nimitz’s included losses of the forces at sea, though kamikazes had inflicted 1.78 fatalities per kamikaze pilot in the Battle of Okinawa, and troop transports off Kyūshū would have been much more exposed.
A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson’s staff by William Shockley estimated that conquering Japan would cost 1.7–4 million American casualties, including 400,000–800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities. The key assumption was large-scale participation by civilians in the defense of Japan.”
Whoa – that does not seem to indicate that Japan was going to surrender, nor that casualties on both sides were going to be non-existent.
“Unknown to the Americans, the Soviets also considered invading a major Japanese island – Hokkaido – by the end of August 1945, which would have put pressure on the Allies to act sooner than November.’
Oops! There are those pesky Ruskies coming into the picture!
http://www.pearlharborsurvivorsonline.org/html/Invasion%20Plans.htm
No to destroy the bullshit that Japan was looking to surrender before the bombs were dropped. This was the situation even AFTER the bombs were dropped:
“No Surrender
Japan had received what would seem to have been overwhelming shocks. Yet, after two atomic bombings and the Soviet invasion, the Japanese government still refused to surrender.
The Potsdam Proclamation had called for “Japan to decide whether she will continue to be controlled by those self-willed militaristic advisers” (Potsdam 2, pg. 1475). On the 13th, the Supreme Council For the Direction of the War (known as the “Big 6″) met to address the Potsdam Proclamation’s call for surrender. Three members of the Big 6 favored immediate surrender; but the other three – War Minister Anami, Army Chief of Staff Umezu, and Navy Chief of Staff Toyoda – adamantly refused. The meeting adjourned in a deadlock, with no decision to surrender (JDTS, pg. 200-202).
Later that day the Japanese Cabinet met. It was only this body – not the Big 6, not even the Emperor – that could rule as to whether Japan would surrender. And a unanimous decision was required (JDTS, pg. 176-177, 208(43n)). But again War Minister Anami led the opponents of surrender, resulting in a vote of 12 in favor of surrender, 3 against, and 1 undecided. Having failed to reach a decision to surrender, the Cabinet adjourned. ”
War is full of what ifs, what could have been, should have been, might have been. Generals disagree on everything, such is their egos. Some are aggressive to the max, others much more reserved. In the end, everything is a guess.
What is not a guess is that just a few days after the bombs were dropped, Japan surrendered.
Stuck and crew would have everyone believe that if the bombs wee not dropped, everything would have ended up rosy, that the civilians would not have died, and that Japan would have surrendered post haste.
This is fanciful at worst, uncertain at best. Far more likely is that the war would have dragged on, and Russia would have become involved, with highly uncertain results thereafter.
Spook Boy gives a rather lame comment.
Chief Wampum is cowering with fear in his teepee.
Bunch of wet pussies!
Comment 100. I win! Blow me.
Billy
Your initial comments were disappointing to me because you fell for the radical revisionists of history that infect this site. So what if Curtis Lemay said something about being tried as a war criminal if the U.S. had lost to Japan and Germany in WWII? Jesus Christ, every single senior civilian and military leader in the entire country would have been tried as a war criminal, from Roosevelt (or Truman) on down.
What’s fucking new about that? It’s essentially ….. “We won. You lost. You die.”
Plus ….. weren’t you a career soldier? Special Forces, Ranger, Airborne, something like that. Maybe not. I may have that wrong. Nonetheless, I didn’t see you sticking up for American soldiers, even after the mindless and unfounded attacks on our soldiers from the usual suspects of the twisted mind of flash joined by the gullible Stucky. Nothing from you. Pfffft. Sound of crickets.
If you want to join that crowd, fine. I’ll take fact over fiction any day.
Next up: Stucky.