Why this post? I have about a dozen web sites in my political-favorites folder which I visit on most days. In the past couple of weeks EVERY single one them had at least one article about nuclear confrontation with Russia. That shit is fucked up and shit. That’s why.
“This Is Your Life” was a 30 minute Teevee show (a “reality” show, actually) on Nothing But Crap (NBC) for nine seasons (1952 – 1961). An unsuspecting celebrity or an exceptional common citizen was brought to the television studios under some untrue pretext. They wouldn’t realize what was happening until they were on camera and the show had begun. Then Ralph Edwards would tell them, “This is Your Life!” — and start telling their life story. When the story included someone important from their past, that person would come out on the stage. Most of those people hadn’t seen the “honoree” in years or even decades. It was supposed to be a look at your favorite comedian, actor, politician, etc. as a human being instead of a celebrity.
However, the show was designed to manipulate the viewer’s emotions …. usually, tears …. Saturday Evening Post once called the program “the weepiest show on television.” What they did was often shameful … as you will see in the following story …. the Hiroshima Story.
John Hersey’s landmark 1946 book, Hiroshima, documents, among other things, Reverend Kiyoshi Tanimoto’s story.
Kiyoshi Tanimoto was a Japanese-born, American-educated Methodist minister who had a parish in Hiroshima. Fate spared Tanimoto on that August 6, 1945 morning because he happened to be helping a friend move some family belongings to a house in Koi, a western suburb outside of the direct blast zone. After seeing the flash of The Bomb, Tanimoto instinctively dove between two large rocks. Debris from the collapsed house fell near the minister, but he emerged uninjured and was able to bear witness to the hideous aftermath.
THE KELOID GIRLS
After the war, Tanimoto began working with a group of women disfigured by the Bomb—a humanitarian effort that would eventually lead to his appearance on This Is Your Life. On August 6, 1945 of that horrific day, these women, who were school girls at the time of the bombing, had been ordered to help tear down houses and clear fire lanes. They were among a larger contingent of girls directed to partake in this task because Hiroshima was on alert for conventional firebombing raids. Most of these school girls were, of course, killed in the blast. Those who survived had horrible burns and soon developed keloids (scar tissue) on their faces and other parts of their bodies. When Tanimoto asked the American-established Atomic Bomb Casualty Commission to provide the women with plastic surgery, the minister’s request fell on deaf ears.
The Japanese local newspapers dubbed them Genbaku Otome, or, as translated into English, A-bomb Maidens. Eventually, doctors Arthur Barsky and William Hitzig selected twenty-five women who were deemed the most likely to benefit from the surgery. The Maidens left for New York, along with Reverend Tanimoto, on May 5, 1955. The American press reported on their trip with an editorial tone akin to that of a freak show advertisement. Headlines such as “Atom-Scarred Jap Girls Pray Before U.S. Trip” and “…A-Bomb Jap Girls To Get Plastic Surgery” were typical.
“This is Your Life” —- HORROR SHOW SURPRISE
Tanimoto was in America to RAISE FUNDS for these women. He was told by a friend to come to the West Coast to start another speaking and fundraising tour. On May 11th the minister arrived, as scheduled, at the NBC Studios in Hollywood for what he was told would be a local news interview.
Minutes after meeting Ralph Edwards for the first time, Tanimoto was surprised to find himself at the center of something that was quite obviously more than just a local news program. At 7 p.m. local time, Edwards began the show seated on a divan smiling at the camera. There was a sound effect of a ticking clock that grew louder as his opening remarks progressed.
“Good evening ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to This Is Your Life. The ticking you hear in the background is a clock counting off the seconds to 8:15 a.m., August 6, 1945. And seated here with me is a gentleman whose life was changed by the last tick of that clock as it reached 8:15.”
At this point Tanimoto, who was seated next to Edwards, was introduced. The minister was wearing a baggy suit and a stunned expression. Can you even begin to imagine the horror? The audience laughed when he confessed to Edwards that he had never heard of his program.
Edwards continued,
“We have been working for weeks with your friends Norman Cousins, editor of the Saturday Review, John Hersey, author of the best-selling book Hiroshima, and many others to bring you to our stage tonight so we could retell the story of your life. The facts are between the covers of this book. You will meet many people who have helped shape your destiny, and we hope that at the end of this half-hour you will have had some pleasant moments…And that you, ladies and gentlemen, will have a better understanding of what it is to look into the face of atomic power—to survive and die. Now we will pick up the threads of your life in a moment, Reverend Tanimoto, after this word from Bob Warren, our announcer, who has something very special to tell the girls in our audience. Bob?”
Did he actually say “pleasant moments”??? Are you fucking kidding me?? Was there ever a more horrifyingly disgusting surreal moment in the history of television? — “Hey folks! Looky here! We got us a bonafide A-Bomb survivor! Woo-fuckin-hoo! But, first, let’s hear from our sponsor, Helen Bishop Cosmetics. They got this nifty-keen nail polish! It’s even able to withstand industrial strength scrubbing!!”
THE EVIL BASTARD BEHIND THE CURTAIN
Tanimoto recounted how he and his friend had disregarded the commonplace air raid signals as they made their way to Koi with their pushcart. Then, a loud, disembodied Brooklyn-accented voice was heard from offstage:
“At zero six hundred on the morning of August 6, 1945, I was in a B-29 flying over the Pacific. Destination, Hiroshima.”
But, the Big Moment was not yet. Other figures from the Tanimots’s past were paraded before him, like Bertha Sparkey, the Methodist missionary who introduced him to Christianity as a boy.
The Big Moment came shortly after Tantimoto had finished describing the flash and the explosion. But, first, Edwards was moved to ask the most retarded question in the history of retarded television hosts: — “Did you know Hiroshima had been the first city to feel the force of atomic power?” The minister, of course, replied, — “I didn’t know what happened.” He then added that he had asked for God’s help which prompted another vocal interruption from Lewis from behind the door:
“And looking down from thousands of feet over Hiroshima, all I could think of was, ‘My God, what have we done?’”
Cue that velvety smooth voice; :
“The voice again of a man whose second of eternity was woven up with yours, Reverend Tanimoto. Now you have never met him, you’ve never seen him, but he’s here tonight to clasp your hand in friendship. Ladies and gentlemen, Captain Robert Lewis, United States Air Force, who along with Paul Tibbets piloted the plane from which the first atomic power was dropped over Hiroshima.”
Cue the music ……….. out walks the fucker who dropped the bomb …. to give history’s most awkward handshake with Tanimoto. The audience applauds.
The sonofabitch calls on God! When Edwards asked Lewis to describe his “experience” on the fateful day, the former airman hesitated for a moment and then began — “As I said before, Mr. Edwards…I wrote down later…” Choking up on these last words, Lewis put his hand to his forehead to steady himself, and then repeated his earlier line, “My God, what have we done?”
Edwards took special care to point out to his millions of viewers the dual invocation of the almighty by the bomber and victim:
“And so, Reverend Tanimoto, you on the ground, and you on your military mission, Captain Lewis, in the air, both appeal to a power greater than your own. Almost at the same moment you both utter the same words: My God. Thank you, Robert Lewis, now personnel manager at Henry Heide Incorporated in New York City.”
The audience applauded.
PURCHASING REDEMPTION FOR A MERE $500 BUCKEROOS.
The hope was that the show would raise a million dollars. Americans contributed a pathetically measly $55,000. Captain Lewis was expecting a fat check for appearing on the show. The day before the show he discovered he would be getting nothing, so he got drunk, and came on the show with a hangover. Lewis made a big show of forking over $500, his guilt now sufficiently assuaged. The audience applauded. He died of a heart attack in 1983 (age 66), and is now a citizen of Hell.
AFTERMATH
So, “This is your life” will someday be “This is your future”. More than likely, some day some evil satanic leader will decide “Hey, we’re losing this war. Let’s exterminate humanity.”. And some evil military drone soldier – “Just following orders, sir!” — will push the button.
But, nobody will be left alive to watch the apology on TV.
In 1948, the English-speaking Tanimoto embarked upon a lengthy speaking tour of the United States to raise funds for his church that was destroyed by the “Little Boy” atomic weapon. The minister gave 582 lectures on what he had learned from the tragedy of the Bomb. The title of his speech was “The Faith That Grew Out of the Ashes”
That, folks, is grace in action. If that was me, I would have titled a sermon – “Rot in hell you evil fucking bastards.”
Here is a five minute video with clips from the show AND one of the surviving Keloid Girls. It’s really worth a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=c_58byuLBu0
Here is the full show part 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZYx4syf2oY&feature=player_detailpage
Here is the full show part 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0m8D6APp64&feature=player_detailpage
.
SOURCE: Most of the pictures and narrative come from this webpage, which contains much more detailed information;
http://conelrad.blogspot.com/2010/08/hiroshima-this-is-your-life.html
Stucky
You had comment 101. Llpoh had comment 100. He wins. Count ’em if you don’t believe me.
Nippon booty – yep, that sure was the result of the US getting Japan. Whicj it really did not. Nippon booty. What a fucking joke.
What the US got was 70 years of funding Japanese defense. The US assumed responsibility for defending Japan, and largely has done so to this very day.
The result is that Japan spent a minuscule amount on defense, which is one of the primary reasons, if not THE primary reason, it was able to ascend to being the world’s third largest economy (fucked as it currently is).
The Japanese spent less than 1% of their GDP on defense. Contrast that to the US percentage of around 5%. That 4 percent, compounded annually ( or even 2%, to be conservative), has benefitted Japan enormously.
The Japanese economy would be a fraction of its current size had it been required to fund its own defense – and by a fraction I mean a quarter or a half of its current size.
Yep, conquering Japan and then providing for its defense was some “booty”.
How fucking ridiculous.
I win! Hahahaha! there was never a doubt!
Hey everybody!
Check out the headlines on CNN- Honey Boo Boo is coming back. Hooray!
Loopey
Far be it from me to get in the middle of The Holy Trinity war to end all wars, I just pointed out the timeline regarding the Russians. Also, that banksters had plans to make them (Japan) their bitch. I don’t care who wins this bullshit.
“Your initial comments were disappointing to me because you fell for the radical revisionists of history that infect this site.” – SSS
Wait… what? The fuck are you talking about? I posted no “revisionist” bullshit. Show me where I did. LeMay actually did say something to the effect that under other circumstances, they would be prosecuted as war criminals. If he fucking SAID IT, how is that revisionist? And the first atomic bomb was earmarked for Berlin. That is historical fact, not revisionist BS. Which means Japan got fucked twice. Also, Clinton DID have the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bomb “tests” quietly revised to reflect that they were acts of war at the behest of the Japanese government. How is that “revisionist”?
And my comment about how the fucking deluded idiots like to say dumb shit like “If not for “X”, we’d all be speaking German/Japanese/etc by now…”? The Japanese high command was asked after the war was over why they didn’t invade after wiping out the Pacific Fleet… there was nothing really standing in their way. They replied that they watched us with great interest… watched us – our civilians – competing in rifle competitions, etc. They knew they would be cut to ribbons in short order if they invaded. And the Germans? They couldn’t even get across the English Channel. How in the hell are they supposed to invade the US on the other side of the Atlantic? The logistical train alone would be a nightmare, and they would be facing down the same armed rednecks as the Japs…
So, my comment stands and I stand behind it, foursquare…
“Plus ….. weren’t you a career soldier? Special Forces, Ranger, Airborne, something like that. Maybe not. I may have that wrong.”
Airborne Infantry for half my career.
“Nonetheless, I didn’t see you sticking up for American soldiers, even after the mindless and unfounded attacks on our soldiers from the usual suspects of the twisted mind of flash joined by the gullible Stucky.”
1. Our guys don’t need me “sticking up for them”. They can handle themselves just fine, thanks.
2. You seem to think that putting on a uniform bestows upon the wearer impeccable ethics, instant honor, outstanding morals, etc. Much the same way that putting on a shiny badge grants cops extra rights. It doesn’t. Plenty of shitbags wearing the uniform.
Not living up to other people’s expectations is always a downer. We are asked to do some pretty horrific things – mostly by people who would never go into harm’s way on purpose. That some of us actually enjoy doing that shit, or at least don’t have a problem with it, surprises people. I’ve seen attitudes ranging from “FUCK YEAH!” to “taking out the trash” to guys having emotional breakdowns over it.
The ones who have no problem sending guys like me into harm’s way – and not going themselves – are usually sanctimonious dick cheeses… much like yourself. You send us and we fight and bleed and die, and then when our attitudes don’t match up exactly with yours, you turn nasty… fuck you, SSS. Just suck my oily anal discharge…
“Nothing from you. Pfffft. Sound of crickets.”
Yep. I comment where and when I choose. I don’t march to your fife and drum, you sanctimonious asshole. Vets don’t need my help defending themselves and not all vets agree on everything… I’ve gone at it hammer and tongs, teeth and claws, with other vets elsewhere on the net over shit… in the end, no harm no foul. There is respect there, as we are peers…
But that respect does not extend to you. You don’t get cut the same slack. You don’t like the way I do business? I say again: Suck my oily anal discharge.
I’m done with you… out.
Why do people keep harping on about the atomic bombings? It’s another case of “everyone fear shark attack but no one fear heart attack” moment. Tens of millions of people died in WW2 and some still make a big deal about ~400,000 deaths because of the way they died? Seriously? It’s as if to had Hiroshima and Nagasaki been firebombed with the same results and Japan surrendered that it would be footnote in history.
I also agree with when you’re at war you strike hard and fast. You’re not there to play fair but to win. You do everything to not be the side signing the terms of surrender and wondering what the occupation force will do to you.
I can say using those two atomic bombs did stop the army in Europe from having to go to the Pacific region . According to my grandfather they would have been deployed to fight in the Pacific theatre .So it did keep the army in Europe out of that part of the war.
As always, so good to see Billy respond in a measured, balanced way.
Fuck, Billy would be the first to throw the A bomb by the look of it. If you shoot a pea at Billy, he immediately goes to DEFCON 6 and launches the intercontinental ballistic missiles. Proportionate response is not a concept he understands.
Billy says:
The Japanese high command was asked after the war was over why they didn’t invade after wiping out the Pacific Fleet… there was nothing really standing in their way. They replied that they watched us with great interest… watched us – our civilians – competing in rifle competitions, etc. They knew they would be cut to ribbons in short order if they invaded. And the Germans? They couldn’t even get across the English Channel. How in the hell are they supposed to invade the US on the other side of the Atlantic? The logistical train alone would be a nightmare, and they would be facing down the same armed rednecks as the Japs…
______________________________________________
This is some stupid shit. The reason the Japs didn’t invade the US is, uh, because they couldn’t. The US invasion of tiny Okinawa required the largest fleet ever assembled in history, and it was a bloodbath. Japan had a small merchant fleet. Fuck, the US launched more merchant ships in a six month period in 1943 than Japan did over the seven years they were at war.
Nor did Japan “wipe out” the US Pacific fleet. All they did was sink some obsolete WW1 battleships, including even the pre-dreadnought Utah. The Japanese encountered the real US Navy at Guadalcanal a few months later.
Back to the impact to the Japanese economy of not having to pay for their own defense. I have studied this issue over many years, and was involved in a major research project covering this issue.
Using this graph:
[img]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/ctoeQ4ReRCn2jAA-EeDnhxV5ilG6W283rFe14BwARH6i37w0x6Pf8Wobkj6KfN79YpPOb1rkyYObyTo1el3D0kiZnlqOxmh6G1elgQbIE7-O2ar0h6FV[/img]
I have extrapolated the impact to Japanese GDP if they had had to fund their own defense at a relatively modest level of 3% instead of under 1% for the period from 1950 until today. I will not bore you with the calculations, but the Japanese economy, based on these figures, would currently be at 28.3% of its current size.
Let that sink in a moment. If the US had not borne the brunt of paying for the defense of the Japanese, and if the Japanese had to spend 3% of their GDP on maintaining defense, like most other nations in the world, its economy would currently be approximately 30% of its current size.
And then further imagine what that would have done with respect to the US economy. Imagine the billions the US would have saved each year. Imagine the trillions of dollars worth of goods that the US would not have bought from Japan. Imagine that the rise of Japanese manufacturing did not occur in the 1970’s, and that great slabs of manufacturing were not transfered from the US to Japan over the coming two or three decades. Imagine the vastly different world landscape that would currently exist.
There have been some stupid things that have happened, but the US absorbing the cost of defending Japan for 70 years is one of the stupidest decisions that has ever been made. Decisions do not get much more stupid than that.
Z – I remember something about the Japanese being very afraid that there would be guns behind every blade of US grass if they tried to invade. That is for damn sure. Every Jap that set foot on the US would have had his ass shot off.
You are absolutely right that the logistics issues would have been insurmountable. But even if they had been able to overcome those, they would have needed many, many millions of landed soldiers to make an inroad into the US, plus support troops. It was an absolutely insurmountable task. It was beyond the Japanese to even consider it.
“The ones who have no problem sending guys like me into harm’s way – and not going themselves – are usually sanctimonious dick cheeses… much like yourself. You send us and we fight and bleed and die, and then when our attitudes don’t match up exactly with yours, you turn nasty… fuck you, SSS. Just suck my oily anal discharge… ”
—-Billy
Sweet. I spent my entire Air Force career, as an air-ground fighter pilot and more importantly as a forward air controller directing air strikes against enemy ground forces attacking American ground troops in Vietnam, and you invite me to suck your anal oily discharge. First time that’s happened. Sweet.
“There is respect there, as we are peers…But that respect does not extend to you. You don’t get cut the same slack. You don’t like the way I do business? I say again: Suck my oily anal discharge. I’m done with you… out.”
—-Billy
Sweet. The proudest medal I wore on my chest was an ARMY Commendation Medal. Know what I got it for, Billy? Teaching company commanders, platoon leaders, and squad leaders (yes, squad leaders) what to do in case THEY needed to call in air support in the event no Air Force expertise was available to help them. Designed and taught the course myself as a captain in Panama in defense of the Canal Zone. Got an even better story in defense of our ground troops in Europe. And lots, lots more. Sweet.
I spent 20 years of my life defending American soldiers, in and out of combat, Billy. You are the first one to tell me to suck your oily anal discharge. In fact, you are the first one to criticize my service to the most important fighting man today – a soldier with an assault rifle in his hands.
Congrats.
lpoh says:
Z – I remember something about the Japanese being very afraid that there would be guns behind every blade of US grass if they tried to invade. That is for damn sure. Every Jap that set foot on the US would have had his ass shot off.
____________________________________________________
Yamamoto said that once. He knew the US very well being Harvard (iirc) educated.
Billy
Please do not take my comments at 10:14 pm as a personal attack. We may misunderstand and disagree with each other in this thread, but that does not mean we have to break the brotherhood of service to our nation, however fucked up it may have become.
SSS – you are truly benevolent and wise.
China has never forgotten the rape of Nanking.
[/img]
[img
★Why do the Chinese generalize the Japanese as being evil?
Many Chinese I talk to don’t seem to understand the difference between Japanese soldiers who invaded China during WW2 and the average Japanese person of today.
I’ve heard “I hate Japanese” so many times, and usually I try offer my opinions on the dangers of racist generalisations only to be met with a brick wall. I’ve used Germany as an example and how educated people in the west don’t generalise Germany as a bunch of Nazis.
But still, many Chinese remain stubborn on the matter. “It’s in their blood.” Another common phrase when referring to their neighbours.
I understand the terrible things that have happened before and I would never suggest someone forgive and forget such atrocities, Nanjing being the most common example.
http://www.quora.com/Why-do-the-Chinese-generalize-the-Japanese-as-being-evil
Sensetti says:
China has never forgotten the rape of Nanking.
_____________________________________
I love revisionist history, especially when it is supported by facts:
The Myth of the Rape of Nanking.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/unko/tamezou/nankin/whatreally/
llpoh says: SSS – you are truly benevolent and wise.
Billy’s not that bad either, he saluted SSS initially and thanked him for his forward air support role when they first met up on TBP#1392 “Enter the Trekkie”.
This is for pavan and ASIG:
“A society’s understanding of history is shaped not so much by what they’re told, but by what is hidden from them.
The telling of history is not about truth but about myth-making, the construction of saints and devils. By and large, history is an exercise in guilt-projection by the victors. It appears that winning isn’t ever good enough for them — they have to justify their naked power and superior killing skills by smearing the losers as pure evil.” (Murder by Cherry-Picking by Jim Goad).
There is at least a book you really need to read. Lookup on amazon for “Freedom Betrayed: Herbert Hoover’s Secret History of the Second World War and Its Aftermath” – November 1, 2011 – by George Nash.
But better start with this book’s review:
“Did FDR Provoke Pearl Harbor?
Wednesday – December 7, 2011 at 1:00 am
By Patrick J. Buchanan”
https://tinyurl.com/np5ycpr
Hermann Göring was right about peace and war. His comments were made privately to Gustave Gilbert, a German-speaking intelligence officer and psychologist who was granted free access by the Allies to all the prisoners held in the Nuremberg jail.
In an interview with Gilbert in Göring’s jail cell during the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials (18 April 1946):
Göring: Why, of course, the people don’t want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
At lunch during the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal (11 December 1945):
Göring: After the United States gobbled up California and half of Mexico, and we were stripped down to nothing, territorial expansion suddenly becomes a crime. It’s been going on for centuries, and it will still go on.
Here is a little historical tidbit to ponder…
We have all heard of the Bataan death march and how vicious the Japanese soldiers were in the Pacific War (and sometimes they were). The Japanese perspective was somewhat different. Pearl Harbor, although an unannounced attack, was conducted purely against military targets. The few civilians that died were hit mostly by american anti-aircraft artillery shells that fell into residential areas.
The US response was the Doolittle raid on Tokyo and while there were legitimate industrial targets they attempted to bomb, due in part to the nature of Japanese cities at the time, which were congested and without zoning, they also bombed hospitals and schools. The Japanese were outraged and considered this a war crime and that the Americans were clearly barbaric and did not follow the rules of war. This is why their response to the Chinese that harbored the survivors was so vicious, even though some of the captured survivors of the raid, were not executed but were freed from prison when Japan surrendered three and a half years later.
…..my mind came to dead stop and landed on WTF. “…DEFCON 6 and launches the intercontinental ballistic missiles.” — Point of Order by Hot Lips
Figure of speech. 1,6 whatever. Women just gotta nag nag nag. It is their nature.
T4C – like u 2.
“Tens of millions of people died in WW2 and some still make a big deal about ~400,000 deaths because of the way they died? Seriously?” ———– Gil
Yes, seriously.
Because, the Nuclear Genie was let out of the bottle. What was once unthinkable, now became acceptable. It took thousands of bombs to firebomb Dresden. It took just one bomb to wipe out Hiroshima. When the Dresden bombings we over … it was basically over. When the Hiroshima bomb drop was over … thousands upon thousands continued to suffer horribly, for decades, due to radiation.
Can’t you see the one is NOT like the other? If not, that’s just pitiful.
There is ONLY ONE possible “good” that could have come of those two bombings. And that is this; mankind would be so HORRIFIED by what they just did, that they would vow to never ever do it again. A decent brand of humanity would have BANNED the weapon forever.
But, that’s not what happened. We need MORE bombs!! And now we have 20,000+ nukes in the world … each many many more times more powerful than the ones dropped on Japan.
And we have people like you, Llpoh, and SSS endorsing this horrible turn of events. Oh, yes, you all do. Each and every one of you have been screaming out; “When at war, do WHATEVER NECESSARY to win!!” … even dropping nuclear weapons on innocents …. even though next time it’s done it could mean the end of humanity.
You people have no moral fiber. So, solly.
Why would the Japanese been afraid of invading the U.S. (or Australian) mainland because of “ordinary men with guns” then? They did take that chance when they attacked Pearl Harbor. The Japanese did make an attack on the Australian mainland and “ordinary men with guns” didn’t stop them. Instead the only men with guns who stopped them were military soldiers – not noble Libertarians.
“We can wipe the Japanese off the map in three months,” wrote Navy Secretary Frank Knox.”
——– from the link provided by bipolar bear
That’s what our shitfuk politicians and military leaders tell us about EVERY war. And most of the sheeple believe it. Betcha didn’t know this … they now tell us we can win a war against Russia.
Whoop! Whoop! Go USA!USA!USA! Nuke dem fuckers!!
SSS- The “CIA-funded ISIS” charge is unworthy of response.
I’m guessing Sucky Sleuth didn’t get the memo..
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-18/wesley-clark-isis-got-started-through-funding-our-friends-allies
Not that it was really a conspiracy ‘theory’ but with General Wesley Clark (ret.) now openly admitting “ISIS got started through funding from our friends and allies… to fight to the death against Hezbollah” it appears the ‘angel investors’ cat is out of the bag. Adding that “they recruited the zealots and religious fundamentalists” Clark says ‘we’ create “Frankenstein.” He is careful not to name names, but we ask (rhetorically of course), which of our (oil-bearing) allies has the biggest bone to pick with Hezbollah (apart from Israel of course)?
“I spent my entire Air Force career, as an air-ground fighter pilot and more importantly as a forward air controller directing air strikes against enemy ground forces attacking American ground troops in Vietnam…” —————- SSS
So, what you’re saying is; — when your government tells you to go to a country 8,000 miles away, inhabited mostly by illiterate farmers in pajamas, who want nothing more than self-determination … even if it’s Communism vs “Democracy”, and who are embroiled in a civil war that is none of our fucking business, but our government says “go kill those fuckin’ Commies” — that you will do their bidding.
Now, don’t take that as a criticism. You were young and full of Patriotic Vigor. You did what you had to do … and once there, you might as well do the best job you can protecting the soldiers who were FORCED (via the draft) to be there … and you did that quite well.
But, you weren’t forced to join up. I’m not sure killing gooks is something to take pride in. You were a tool used by the US government …. just as is every person who VOLUNTEERS to join the military today, because NONE of our wars since WWII have been about defending America. Rather, it is about enriching very few at the expense of many.
Even the designation “Department Of Defense” is total bullshit. Defense??? The name changed around 1949. After WWII end, the United Nations was tasked with taking steps that would lead to lasting peace. So, in its Charter they outlawed wars of aggression — meaning, wars which aren’t fought in defense. As a result, the USA!USA!USA! in keeping with the fine tradition of naming its government agencies to the exact opposite of what they really do … changed Department Of WAR to Department Of Defense. A brilliant stroke of bull-shittery that would have made Edward Bernays proud.
Im disappointed by some of the posters on here. Stucky is correct. The japanese attempted to make peace BEFORE the war started, even offering to meet FDR at a place of his choosing, FDR refused. Backing the japanese into a corner and goading them into attacking first was FDRs backdoor entry into WWII, which, despite his campaign promises to the contrary, was his goal all along. And the japanese had tried to surrender before. All they asked was that their silly little emporer not be hanged for war crimes and be allowed to keep his meaningless throne. Which, the US ALLOWED ANYWAY after dropping the bombs. After dropping the bombs, we accepted their surrender under the EXACT same conditions they offered before we needlessly fried two cities of no military significance. Also, the idea that 500k americans would have been killed invading japan is pure propaganda. the figure at the time was 50k at MOST, but again, that is completely irrelevant since the japanese were trying to surrender before those bombs were dropped, so an invasion was not necessary anyway.
Also silly is that the japanese were going to invade the US. They couldn’t even invade Hawaii, or keep any of the pcific islands they held before the war. That is stupid. The idea that the germans would have invaded the US is equally absurd. They couldn’t even cross the English channel and invade england, the idea of them corssing the atlantic ocean is insanely idiotic.
Lastly, this country was founded on non intervention. Our founding fathers understood that Europe engaged in completely senseless wars based on little more than the ambitions of their rulers every couple generations that resulted in the near genocide of an entire generation of young men. The intent of this country was that it would stay out of europes affairs, no matter what. We were not to go out into the world, seeking monsters to destroy. In a free country, if you believed that a European war was worth your life or property to fight, you would be free to send money, weapons, ammo, or even go over there yourself and fight if you believed the cause was worth it. What you should not be allowd to do is get the govt to steal peoples money via taxation to send weapons and troops over there, or to involve our nation in it in any way. Supporting the drafting of our young people to go over there is even worse. It amounts to slavery, except its worse than slavery. At least slaves didn’t have people shooting at them. And the penatly for trying to leave was the same- death. Our involvment in that war was senseless.
“Stucky is correct. The japanese attempted to make peace BEFORE the war started, even offering to meet FDR at a place of his choosing, FDR refused” ———— gator
Thanks, BUT … I did not actually say that. (Even though I believe the evidence shows your comment to be true.)
I did say to pavan that he should consider a career in comedy …. regarding his comment that “the Japanese started the war.”
bipolar bear’s link to the article — “Did FDR Provoke Pearl Harbor? — covers that nicely. Here’s the link again so anyone interested won’t have to scroll up to find it. https://tinyurl.com/np5ycpr
BTW … very nice post.
Loopy – What the US got was 70 years of funding Japanese defense. The US assumed responsibility for defending Japan, and largely has done so to this very day.
What the US got was a free warm weather port in which to patrol the pacific and launch invasions first in Korea and then in Vietnam. And sure, no Wall Street bankster nor American manufacturing firm made a damn cent in bankrolling the rebuilding Japanese infrastructure or in supply the Nips with consumer goods after we blew all their mfging shit to hell.
Grow up Loopy, cowboys and Indians are no longer played in black and white.
http://www.doug-long.com/hirosh2.htm
It is likely Dwight Eisenhower was right when he said of the atomic bombings of Japan, “it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.” (Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63, pg. 108).
Historian and former Naval officer Martin Sherwin has summarized the situation, stating, “The choice in the summer of 1945 was not between a conventional invasion or a nuclear war. It was a choice between various forms of diplomacy and warfare.” (Sherwin, pg. xxiv).
Long-time historian of the atomic bombings Barton Bernstein has taken a cautious view of what might have been: “Taken together, some of these alternatives [to dropping atomic bombs on Japan] – promising to retain the Japanese monarchy, awaiting the Soviets’ entry, and even more conventional bombing – very probably could have ended the war before the dreaded invasion [of the Japanese mainland by the Allies]. Still, the evidence – to borrow a phrase from F.D.R. – is somewhat ‘iffy’, and no one who looks at the intransigence of the Japanese militarists should have full confidence in those other strategies. But we may well regret that these alternatives were not pursued and that there was not an effort to avoid the use of the first A-bomb – and certainly the second.” (Barton Bernstein, The Atomic Bombings Reconsidered, Foreign Affairs, Jan./Feb. 1995, pg. 150).
Echoing the concern of Assistant Sec. of War John McCloy and Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence Captain Ellis Zacharias that the Allies became overly dependent on military means, Leon Sigal writes, “At worst, withholding force might have prolonged the war for a while at a time when little combat was taking place; it would not have altered the final result. Yet restraint could have significantly reduced the gratuitous suffering on both sides, especially for noncombatants.” Sigal concludes, “it could be argued that the United States behaved as if the objective of inducing Japan to surrender was subordinated to another objective – in Stimson’s words, that of exerting ‘maximum force with maximum speed.’ American policy was guided by an implicit assumption that only the escalation of military pressure could bring the war to a rapid conclusion.” (Sigal, pg. 219).
Regarding claims that the atomic bombings saved lives, Gar Alperovitz has noted, “It has been argued in this connection that using the atomic bomb was less costly in human life than the continuation of conventional bombing would have been. Apart from the fact that accounts which urge such a view commonly leave aside questions concerning [modifying the unconditional] surrender formula and the impact of the Russian attack, by early August 1945 very few significant Japanese civilian targets remained to be bombed. Moreover, on July 25 a new targeting directive had been issued which altered bombing priorities.” “Attacks on urban centers became only the fourth priority, after railway targets, aircraft production, and ammunition depots.” “…the new directive (as the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey noted) ‘was about to be implemented when the war ended.'”. (Gar Alperovitz, The Decision To Use the Atomic Bomb, pg. 342).
In 1948 Sec. of War Henry Stimson published his memoirs, ghost-written by McGeorge Bundy. In them Stimson revealed, “It is possible, in the light of the final surrender, that a clearer and earlier exposition of American willingness to retain the Emperor would have produced an earlier ending to the war”. Stimson and Bundy continued, “Only on the question of the Emperor did Stimson take, in 1945, a conciliatory view; only on this question did he later believe that history might find that the United States, by its delay in stating its position, had prolonged the war.” (Stimson & Bundy, pg. 628-629).
Robert Butow has affirmed Stimson’s position: “Secretary of War Stimson has raised the question of whether an earlier surrender of Japan could have been achieved had the United States followed a different diplomatic and military policy during the closing months of the war. In the light of available evidence, a final answer in the affirmative seems possible, even probable.” Butow continues, “Although it cannot be proved, it is possible that the Japanese government would have accepted the Potsdam Proclamation immediately had Secretary Stimson’s reference to the imperial structure been retained. Such a declaration, while promising destruction if Japan resisted, would have offered hope if she surrendered. This was precisely Stimson’s intention.” Butow adds, “The Japanese military… interpreted the omission of any commitment on the Throne as evidence of the Allied intention to destroy forever the foundation stone of the Japanese nation. Here was an invaluable trump card unintentionally given them by the Allies, and the militarists played it with unfailing skill.” (Butow, pg. 140-141).
Martin Sherwin has also followed up on Stimson’s observation: “That unconditional surrender remained an obstacle to peace in the wake of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the Soviet declaration of war – until the government of the United States offered the necessary (albeit veiled) assurance that neither Emperor nor throne would be destroyed – suggests the possibility, which even Stimson later recognized, that neither bomb may have been necessary; and certainly that the second one was not.” (Sherwin, pg. 237, emphasis in original). As noted earlier, Stimson explained, “the Allied reply [to Japan’s 8/10 surrender offer]… implicitly recognized the Emperor’s position” (Stimson & Bundy, pg. 627). Foreign Minister Togo
In regard to the U.S. knowledge at the time of Japan’s effort to end the war, Butow writes: “the fact is there was at least something of an opportunity here, or perhaps a gamble, which might have yielded startling results had it not been ignored. Although this criticism may be the product of too much hindsight, it is difficult to explain why the Togo-Sato intercepted messages did not at least produce a logical revision of the then current draft of the Potsdam Proclamation to include some guarantee – even a qualified one – with respect to the preservation of Japan’s imperial system.” (Butow, pg. 135).
Stucky-
I did not mean to imply that you said that, i guess i was sort of rambling. I meant to say that your original premise was correct, and that those who are saying that ‘we had to drop the bomb or thousands of americans would have died’ are wrong, and that it was an awful thing we did. My point about them being willing to surrender was a rebuttal to those saying that it was necessary to end the war
Loopy and Spy Boy are being absolutely ANNIHILATED in this thread. It’s almost like the Good Guys dropped a nuke on their sorry assed revisionism. It’s a beautiful thing to behold. We may never see such a huge margin of victory ever again. I wouldn’t be surprised if they cowered in their caves for the next several days. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
I don’t have 3 days to read these post. Stucky you can sure stir up a hornet’s nest and it is over 70 years old.
I remember the Barrage balloons over Boeing Air Craft in Seattle and the troop trains in King’s Station.
I’ve come to understand the the dropping of the A-bomb was as much a desire on the part of Truman for revenge for the Americans people as well as ending the war before Russia entered the pacific campaign.
All dastardly weapons developed in wars are eventually used. That’s the lesson. Today when ‘the talk’ on all these sites speak of WW3 and nuclear Armageddon. It is imperative that war be avoided.
My friend had a collection of Disney comics published during the second great war. The propaganda and demonetization of the Japanese was unbelievable. “Nips” were categorized as sub-human and worthy of extermination.
Today we see the same propaganda tricks used by the WEE to marginalize Putin, Quadaffi, Saddam, al-Assad, et al. The people are not quite as ignorant, today, as in WW1 & 2 . So, it is not so readily accepted. Engaging in war is serious business today. The nuclear arsenals are multi times more lethal and larger. I don’t believe there will be a nuclear war, but marginal serial conflicts. Perhaps, a suitcase nuke here or there. But, a world wide nuclear conflagration, No. I pray that I am right.
War isn’t pretty and only the ignorant engage in it, joyfully.
I guess we all know who the closet statist curs on TBP are by now?..eh?
Major General J.F.C. Fuller, one of the century’s great military historians, wrote in connection with the atomic bombings:
Though to save life is laudable, it in no way justifies the employment of means which run counter to every precept of humanity and the customs of war. Should it do so, then, on the pretext of shortening a war and of saving lives, every imaginable atrocity can be justified.[20]
https://mises.org/library/harry-truman-and-atomic-bomb
Flash
Don’t waste your time explaining the advantages and monetary gain for the US regarding victory over Japan. They fail to understand that the same criminals own all of the worlds central banks including the Fed. Everything is a money making venture for TPTB and they will sacrifice humans no matter what type of weapon is used. It’s all about the Benjamins.
@ Homer …same tune , different song..
The threw the babies out dey’ incubators…US gotz to do soothing
he great Iraq War lie. The pictured girl told the world under tears that she saw how Saddam Hussein’s soldiers took babies out of their incubators and let them die on the cold floor.
In Novembre 1990 Bush41 told this lie to the poor soldiers.
In truth she hadn’t been in Kuwait at the time. The girl was in fact the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador in Washington, USA.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/incubatorlie.html?q=incubatorlie.html
Here we go again…
Iraqi Ambassador Tells UN: Evidence That ISIS is Harvesting Victims’ Organs
Ambassador Mohamed Alhakim told reporters that in the past few weeks, bodies with surgical incisions and missing kidneys or other body parts have been found in shallow mass graves.
“We have bodies. Come and examine them,” he said. “It is clear they are missing certain parts.”
He also said a dozen doctors have been “executed” in Mosul for refusing to participate in organ harvesting.
Alhakim briefed the council on the overall situation in Iraq and accused the Islamic State group of “crimes of genocide” in targeting certain ethnic groups.
@ Zara
Dude, shut the fuck up. After Pearl, there was literally nothing between the Japanese fleet and San Fransisco. They could have walked the whole way and not been bothered.
“A few months later” at Guadalcanal? Motherfucker, do you even OWN a watch or a calendar? Pearl was December of 41. Guadalcanal was a military campaign fought between 7 August 1942 and 9 February 1943 on and around the island of Guadalcanal. That’s a whole lot more than “a few months” you stupid motherfucker. Fact is, the ships used at Guadalcanal likely didn’t exist in December of 41.
The fact is, that they would have faced the same logistical nightmare as the Germans. In 1942, the Japanese high command submitted a study on the invasion of CONUS. At a minimum, it would require 2 ships a day, every day, to just maintain a foothold. Furthermore, the Japs were already quoted as saying they didn’t have the manpower to invade Australia – it was never seriously considered. If they weren’t ready to invade Australia, then the US was completely off the table.
Then there’s this:
In 1960, Robert Menard was a commander aboard the USS Constellation when he was part of a meeting between United States Navy personnel and their counterparts in the Japanese Defense Forces.
Fifteen years had passed since VJ Day, most of those at the meeting were WWII veterans, and men who had fought each other to the death at sea were now comrades in battle who could confide in each other.
Someone at the table asked a Japanese admiral why, with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland U.S. forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness, Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast.
Commander Menard would never forget the crafty look on the Japanese commander’s face as he frankly answered the question.
‘You are right,’ he told the Americans. ‘We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand.’
So go suck it, Zara… you can get in line behind SSS.
@ Llpoh,
As always, so good to see Billy respond in a measured, balanced way.
Fuck, Billy would be the first to throw the A bomb by the look of it. If you shoot a pea at Billy, he immediately goes to DEFCON 6 and launches the intercontinental ballistic missiles. Proportionate response is not a concept he understands.
Fucking hypocrite.
If someone attacks you, the proper response is to stomp your enemy so badly that not only does he never want to attack you again, but his ability to attack you is completely compromised. SSS came at me and accused me of some shit without proof, and I responded as I have been trained to do – curb stomp that motherfucker. His defense was ignoring everything I refuted, instead focusing on his so-called Butthurt because I told him to suck my ass…
Then I get some other asshat like you dogpiling on… and that’s okay. You can run your fucking cock holster all you want. It sounds like chickens clucking or the wind blowing outside and means the same thing to me – nothing.
@ SSS,
Okay, you were an O3. And? It’s not the first time I’ve told an officer some version of “go to hell” and it certainly won’t be the last…
You didn’t identify yourself as a former O3 when you were so free with the insults. Don’t try to hide behind that now. You ran your pie hole without knowing the full story, and I responded in kind. Let’s just leave it at that.
Don’t jump my shit because my views don’t square exactly with yours. I’m not here for your entertainment and I march to my own fife and drum. The points I make, I backstop. If I’m attacked personally – and you did just that with your first post – then expect The Nuclear Option in response, no matter who the fuck you are.
Billy just went Defcon 7 on a bunch of curs !!!!!!
Oh, Lawd, pleaze keep dis post goin’!
O.K. Stucky I’ma keepen it a goin’.
Billy—Remember, one Lithium pill every day.
@ Stucky,
An aside from this thread, some of our officers were real dick-smacks… I mean, real gold plated assholes. Because they slept through 4 years of ROTC, they thought they deserved special dispensation… eh, no…
I loved playing the “What if..?” game with them…. just fuck with them hard…
Me: “Hey sir? Can I ask you a question?”
Asshole: “Yeah… what is it?”
Me: “What would you do if I called you a stuck up little bitch who thought he was The Shit for flying a desk?”
Asshole: (pause) “I would have you courts-martialled for insubordination, conduct unbecoming an NCO, etc…”
Me: “Oh… okay. I guess I won’t do that…”
(A few minutes later)
Me: “Okay, but what if I called you a closet homosexual who made extra money on the side by..”
Asshole: “OKAY! THAT’S ENOUGH!”
Me: “Sheesh… just wondering is all…. sir…”
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Billy
haha
I only did one such stupid thing. I’ve told this story before, so just ignore it if you read it.
So, you know a hat is part of the uniform. Gotta wear it all the time. I never liked hats. So, just waking around the base, no one really around, I don’t wear it. Then, I hears this voice from outta nowhere. This is pretty much how it went
Officer (a 1st Lt. dweeb just of of college): “Where’s your hat, airman!!”
Me: “In my pocket, sir.”
Officer “Why is in it your pocket?!”
Me: “Because I can’t fit my head in my pocket, sir!”
That was pretty much it. I got in a fair amount of trouble for it. Had kitchen and latrine duty for about two weeks. No sense of humor with those Big Shit officers.
Billy ,you need to apologize to everyone you have verbally abused.This a classic example of your inner child having a guilt complex over the trauma you have suffered in past lives. From were I sat you are one fucked up dude and it’s because of your former self in a different life.You come back reincarnated in the current life to pay for your sins you committed in your last life.
It’s all pretty simple unless there’s past life interference with current life which is your problem with your inner child.Got that?……..I charge most people 50 bucks for that kind of information.
@ bb,
Uhhh…. so, let me see if I understand this..
Some shit happened that I don’t remember because it didn’t really happen to me… well, actually it was me, but wasn’t me. It was PREVIOUS “me”, back before this me – CURRENT “me” – was alive.
And there was some bad shit that happened back then that somehow involved PREVIOUS “me”, so even though the CURRENT “me” had diddly shit to do with what PREVIOUS “me” did, CURRENT “me” still has to “make up” for that shit by going around apologizing to douchebags like you?
So.. how does this work? If I blow off going around apologizing to douchebags this time, do I get double-punished next go round? What happens if the human race is extincted by then? Do I get to come back as a sentient planet? Or perhaps one of those “aliens” that hair-guy on the History Channel is going on about? Do I get a do-over?
I think it’s seriously unfair that current “me” has to atone for what ‘previous’ me did… I had nothing to do with what that asshole did… punish him, not me..
Stuck and the rest of the Stooges declare victory, despite getting a monumental ass -whuppin’. Classic.
Stuck claims he is Austrian, but I am certain he is actually French: gets his ass kicked, runs, hides, surrendes, then when the smoke is cleared runs around re-writing history claiming he actually wn.
In honor of his newly discovered French heritage, I hereby rename Stucky as …..
Stenchy!
Suiits hm, don’t you think?
Flash said the US got a “free” port in Japan. Free. Bwahahahaha! Free he says.
Damn, that is funny. What a comedian. Free. Hahahahaha!
bb and this reincarnation thing…
Somehow, I imagine bb to look like this guy…
[img
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You can smell the crazy coming off of him. Dude’s brain is a bag of cats…
My father was a marine in the South Pacific during WWII, so I know quite a bit about it. The revisionist history is what the “I am ashamed of America and my own culture” crowd is spewing right now. Tell this to the babies in Manilla that were skewered on bayonets as the Japanese were pushed out. Tell the “comfort woman” in Korea that the Japanese were nice people. Tell those who were in the Bataan Death March.
More recently, tell that to the people being burned alive and having their heads cut off by peace loving Muslims. Of course, it’s all George Bushes fault, isn’t it?
“You’re a lying sack of shit … it oozes out of every pore. …… You lying motherfucker. ….. You dickfuk! ….. Fuckoff.”
—-Stucky @ SSS, in just one comment
Making you mad makes me happy. You said that to me a number of months ago. Gotcha. Payback is a bitch.
I’m hereby declaring Llpoh as the Oscar Winner of this thread, with SSS as the Best Supporting Actor. Have fun with that metaphor, peeps.
I think Stucky is dumb like a fox…..nothing like a good fight to keep the comments rolling in (wink, wink). Loopey and Spy boy are out classed.