Clovers’ Union

Guest Post by Eric Peters

The Clovers who style themselves Consumers Union – not having been elected to this status by any actual “consumers” – have decided they want the government to impose a new mandate on heavy-duty, 2500/3500 series pick-up trucks. They are demanding they be tested for fuel economy and that these figures be published.

Currently, these trucks – which have a gross vehicle weight of 8,500 lbs. or more – are not subject to government mileage tests and their manufacturers are not required to post mileage stats.

Perhaps they should post them – but shouldn’t that be up to actual consumers – that is, to buyers –  as opposed to the self-appointed “union”?

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It never seems to occur to these professional busybodies – who represent no one other than themselves – that if the people buying these trucks had a burning desire to know how many miles-per-gallon a 2500/3500 series pick-up will deliver, they’d have made such desires known to the manufacturers of the trucks, who would then oblige.

Buyers of these vehicles are interested maximum tow ratings, bed load capacity, the horsepower and torque produced by the engines these trucks offer. And so, the manufacturers publish this data. Not because the government or some pushy “union” has demanded it, but because the buyers do.

And fuel economy?

Buyers don’t care much about that because it’s an irrelevance when it comes to heavy-duty work trucks. There are probably a few people who drive one as their commuter but for the most part, 2500 and up trucks are used to haul and pull things.

Heavy things.

These are trucks with tow ratings pushing 20,000 lbs., and if you need to pull that kind of weight, you are worried about MPGs as much as a fire fighter is worried about how much water is coming out of the hose as he is working a blaze. You are trying to get a job done.

It is what you bought the truck for.

Odds are you know what you need from it – and don’t need  a “union” of busybodies to snatch proxy power from you, represent themselves as your spokesman without your consent and – while you are out working and trying to mind your own business – pestering the government the pester the companies that built the damned things to give you something you didn’t ask for but which will be added to your bill.

The “union” will not be covering the cost of the testing and the posting. They never cover the cost of such things . They do make a fine living, however, presenting themselves as your duly-appointed proxy and making nuisances of themselves at your expense.

Often, they do so without a clue about the nature of  thing they’re making a fuss over. As in this case.

The “union” claims that diesel-powered versions of the Chevy Silverado 2500 HD, the Ford F-150 Super Duty, Ram 2500 and Nissan Titan XD2500 don’t get better mileage than the gas-engined versions of these trucks. Their argument is that people are being gulled into paying extra for diesels, thinking that – as is the case with diesel-powered cars – they will save money overall because of the diesel engine’s greater efficiency.

But people who buy diesel-powered trucks buy them for a very different reason. They buy diesels because of their usually much greater capacity to pull and haul vs. a gas engine and to continue pulling – and hauling over many years and lots of miles.

The “union” did not ask consumers about this. They presume that consumers are as obsessed about fuel economy as they appear to be – notwithstanding any evidence that actual consumers share that concern.

In addition, the tests performed by the “union” to impugn the diesel-powered 2500s were flawed at best and purposely misleading at worst.

How so?

By testing them unloaded and not hauling or pulling anything.

Passenger vehicles – including 1500 series light-duty trucks – are tested this way because that’s in line with the way they’re used and the uses to which they are put. Most of the time, their beds are empty and most of the time, they’re not pulling a trailer.

But 2500s and 3500s are usually pulling – or hauling – something. It’s what they do.

And while a  gas-engined version might perform better, city/highway-wise when unladen, a diesel-powered version will usually do better when it’s pulling/hauling (vs. the gas-engined version) because it isn’t working as hard to pull or carry the extra weight.

That’s what people buy them for you, see.

The busybodies at the “union” do not see it, of course.

Or, care.

Why would they? After all, they are not the ones buying – and using – the trucks. Or the fuel, for that matter. It is of a piece with busybodies demanding you build your house a certain way, according to their liking – but at your expense.

Even unladen, the diesel-powered heavy-duty trucks’ tested mileage was within anyone’s margin of error – “1 to 2 MPG less” than the gas-engined versions. This is what has the plumage of the birds at the “union” all fluffed up.

If there isn’t a problem, make one up. Then demand “solutions.”

Naturlich, it’s a frau that’s in charge at the “union.”

In this case, it’s not the mileage – or the mileage difference –  that’s the real problem. The problem – from the viewpoint of the “union” – isn’t merely that 2500/3500 series trucks aren’t being tested for mileage and the mileage not advertised; it is that these trucks are not subject to the fuel economy fatwas that afflict all other vehicles.

That’s the end goal here.

First, mandate the tests – and the posting of mileage stats. Then decry the “wastefulness” of these trucks which, being heavy and heavy-duty vehicles, do not – and cannot, without severely gimping their ability to do what they do – deliver particularly fabulous city/highway mileage.

It is akin to expecting a Corvette to be as off-road capable as it is capable of running a quarter-mile in 12 seconds or less.

Horses for course.

But the “union” – the Clovers within – cannot abide such choices, which differ from their choices. They insist that everyone make the same choices as their choices. Be nudged and compelled to make them.

How did this busybody-ism become so entrenched in American culture and society? It is startling – and depressing – that so few object. Which explains why busybodies such as these – self-appointed, not proxied by anyone – can tub-thump as they do without risking being run out of town on a rail, old school style.

Perhaps the time has come to resurrect that ancient and sometimes necessary curative.

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bluestem
bluestem

The “Union” needs to take a flying leap. Most folks who buy trucks do so to haul stuff, sometimes really big and heavy stuff and as mentioned ,fuel economy is the least of our worries. I mean have you ever seen a plumber or a/c repair person or electrician show up in a Prius? Case closed. John

Gator
Gator

Yep. Have any of them ever tried to haul a 10k pound boat/trailer combo with even a 1500 series truck, much less a prius? Or a gas powered vs diesel powered truck? I can personally attest to the diesel pulling that a hell of a lot better. Its not even close. The mileage difference is negligable without a load, BUT the fuel is more expensive for a diesel. There is that. But, who wants to go off what the car maker’s stats are anyways. Do your own research. There are online forums for nearly every type of vehicle out there. You will find far more accurate information for what these trucks will do while pulling various loads from their owners online than you will on Ford’s website or from a salesman.

Tommy
Tommy

For $2k you can have all of the emissions bullshit removed and chipped for extra power, fuel economy, torque, and if you want – a program option that loads the cylinders up with fuel so you’ll ‘roll coal’ and temporarily literally pour black smoke out the pipe. My son refers to this as ‘Prius repellent’……guaranteed to royally piss off of any hybrid owner virtual signalling ‘I and I alone am saving the world!’ in their large window cartoon wedge car. I just bought an older model without that crap.

Wip
Wip

How do you pass inspection if you take all that off?

Persnickety
Persnickety

What is “inspection”???

(Just kidding, but I live in a state where there is no such requirement… I think only a handful of the coastal states have that requirement.)

1980XLS
1980XLS

Most states do not have an I/M program for Diesels

1980XLS
1980XLS
Gator
Gator

Yep. A buddy of mine has a duramax like that, with a 800 HP race tune. It will smoke all 4 tires off the line and run a 12 second 1/4 mile. But, it will also get 18-20 mpg on the highway with a different tune selected. I think he’s up to like 10k on the engine mods, though. Its pretty nuts.

1980XLS
1980XLS

Uses for such trucks vary so wildly, the lawyers will just jump on this shit when people don’t get the results that were advertised/published.

Done in Dallas
Done in Dallas

Just another case of common sense has left the room…

Persnickety
Persnickety

I own a heavy duty truck, and have owned the type (not the exact same truck) for more than a decade.

Like most of Peters’ articles, this is scraping the bottom of the barrel really hard for outrage. It’s not like CU wants to ban the trucks or something. (Maybe they do, but it’s not stated here.)

Peters is right that standard EPA mileage testing isn’t that useful. However, it would be ENORMOUSLY USEFUL to have some basic gas mileage comparison testing for steady state 55mph under load. Let’s say a 10k trailer that adds X (maybe 10-15 sf) additional air resistance. The Big 3 have gas and diesel options here, Nissan has a nice looking 3/4 ton diesel, and Toyota keeps hinting at something while also having a fairly stout “1/2 ton” Tundra. It would really be nice to know if say GM’s diesel can provide 14mpg under the test conditions while their gas does 9, and Ford’s diesel does only 12 and their gas does only 8. That would be useful for buying decisions, and would ultimately result in fuel savings as companies would have to balance cheap manufacture and mega HP claims with mileage.

By the way, my old Cummins would do 14.5 mpg pulling a 10k trailer with tons of air resistance, and the GM gas that replaced it will only do 7-9 under the same conditions. But no f’ing way you can find that out from the stickers.

Gator
Gator

His point isnt that they are trying to ban them, its that they are trying to ease the camels nose under the tent, with this leading to having them fall under CAFE standards.

Fulton

Good point. Even people driving work trucks should care about the $ cost of fuel economy. Percentage wise, 9 versus 13 mpg is HUGE

Gloriously Deplorable Paul
Gloriously Deplorable Paul

Mileage ratings are definitely a false flag. You can get real world testing results, including fuel economy, from any number of truck centric magazines or websites. They’ll be a lot more accurate than any test the gruberment can come up with.

Persnickety
Persnickety

No, they’re not, because conditions vary widely. The govt test doesn’t mean you personally will get X mpg, but as a standardized test it means you can compare different vehicles and have a reasonable idea of which one is more efficient.

Sites like http://www.truedelta.com/mpg are somewhat useful, but limited by the randomness of data and whether anyone bothered to post their experience.

I used to read ALL the car magazines, but it’s not useful for estimating gas mileage, because their testers are all leadfoot Larry. I routinely get 20-40% better gas mileage than reported by the drivers at Car & Driver or Edmunds, and I’m not super sedate.

carnac the insignificant
carnac the insignificant

So what mileage should i expect from an f350 diesel pulling a d7 on a low-boy? What kind of mileage does a semi get with a 40000lb load vs. A 20000lb load? Aluminum lowboy vs. Steel low boy? Bad enuf you have to put urhea in the damn things. Ever spill that nasty ass shit? As soon as someone starts measuring it, someone else starts regulating and mandating. Making shit impossible every step of the way.

Persnickety
Persnickety

“So what mileage should i expect from an f350 diesel pulling a d7 on a low-boy”

Zero, because you should be (and probably will be) pulled over and stopped for towing a load vastly over the truck’s rating to the point of endangering everyone else on the road. Lots of D7 versions but their weight runs between 30,000 and 45,000 lbs, add 7k-10k for the trailer and you’re well over double the tow rating of an F350, maybe even triple.

Oh, I see idiots pulling some of the common backhoe-loaders that weigh over 20k with the 1-ton trucks, but that isn’t safe either, just a slightly lesser degree of stupid.

Lots of trucks can get a heavy load moving, but they can’t stop it or control it on curves and in crosswinds.

Highway semis generally get 5.5-6.5 mpg in freeway cruising. And if you noticed that’s proportionately far, far better than pickups with much lighter trailers, you are right. Lots of gears to choose the optimum and huge displacement engines that run at very low rpm to help maximize efficiency. BB could chime in if he wants.

Hollow Man
Hollow Man

Fuel mileage is horrible. But they can pull the communism out of Obama. Well they not quite that powerful but close

Houston Davis
Houston Davis

99 f350 dually 7.3 old school diesel! No emissions! Pulling a tractor or Cat 299D2 through the Boston mountains of Arkansas and actually increase speed hammering down the pedal going up the grades! And gets 18 mpg highway no load.
On a related note, had a skid steer 299D2 with the new DEF urea exhaust emissions catch on fire due to a hydraulic leak cause of the high temperature reaction chamber in the exhaust chamber. 180 secs fully involved! I was seconds from turning into a charred grinning corpse.

TreeFarmer
TreeFarmer

After six years of driving an F350 DRW we’ve put almost 110,000 miles on the vehicle. About 38,000 miles of that was towing an 18,000 pound trailer. We also use the truck for some other hauling as well. Our average MPG over the entire 110,000 miles has been 13.2 according to the trip computer. We can live with that in exchange for being able to tow safely.

Oldtoad of Green Acres
Oldtoad of Green Acres

Clover = SJW, Social Justice Warier

James the Wanderer

The same people who want mileage numbers for trucks DON’T want murder statistics for illegal immigrants.
Think about THAT for a minute.

TNTTowingT1H

yes forcing people to maintain their cars is such a scam. I can guarantee you the introduction of the nct has saved lives. There’re flaws in the system but on balance it’s a good thing.

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