Holy Cow!!! 30 minutes of talk on just the types of shells available for shotguns. I like this guy. The shotgun seems, to me, to be the ultimate gun. If I could only have 1 gun, it would be a shotgun (although I can see why a handgun would be better depending on where you live and if TS has HTF or not). You can hunt ANY North American game with a shotgun with the right load.
I cannot find a video or set of videos that cover all my questions.
My questions (I am nowhere near an expert on firearms):
- Can a shotgun be loaded with mixed SIZED shells like 2 3/4 and 3′ all in the same tube +1 scenario?
- If some of your shells do not say what size they are, simply measure it? Yes, the box is gone.
- Would it be a mistake to get a smooth bore shotgun?
- Pros and cons between high brass and low brass? Does this just have to do with the charge behind the load?
- If you wanted to load up (all in the same tube +1 scenario) with different load types (bird, 00 and slug) should you choke or not?
- Can a rifled slug be fired from a rifled barrel?
- Smooth slug through a smooth bore…ridiculous?
- Is it odd to have to load the chamber (and it be cocked) before the shotgun can be fully loaded including the +1? Does this question make sense?
- Is 00 buck the best self defense load? If so, how many pellets? Or, I guess, what size shell?
Bonus questions for rifles:
- Can the Marlin 795 shoot 22lr and 22 short? If so, can you load them in the same clip?
- Where can a person get lots-o-ammo? LOL
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That was a great video. Thanks.
i am no expert, just been around a long while.
1. Can a shotgun be loaded with mixed SIZED shells like 2 3/4 and 3′ all in the same tube +1 scenario?
Older guns may not take 3″ shells. Most modern ones can take either or both.
2.If some of your shells do not say what size they are, simply measure it? Yes, the box is gone.
Never seen a shotgun shell that didn’t have the size imprinted on the base but yes you could measure it.
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3. Would it be a mistake to get a smooth bore shotgun?
Most shot guns are smooth bore so you can use chokes. there are five different chokes for the different pellet patterns for different applications.
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4. Pros and cons between high brass and low brass? Does this just have to do with the charge behind the load?
Not really. I have a very old box of all brass shells. Too expensive today.
5. If you wanted to load up (all in the same tube +1 scenario) with different load types (bird, 00 and slug) should you choke or not?
Chokes are for shot and smooth bore barrels. You can shoot slugs from smooth bore if you remove any choke, but you lose accuracy . They make rifled barrels for slugs
6. Can a rifled slug be fired from a rifled barrel? yes
7. Smooth slug through a smooth bore…ridiculous? yes
8. Is it odd to have to load the chamber (and it be cocked) before the shotgun can be fully loaded including the +1? Does this question make sense?
You do not and should not load the chamber until the gun is fully loaded and then, uncocked, load the +1 by either sliding in another shell if a pump action or adding one to the magazine.
9. Is 00 buck the best self defense load? If so, how many pellets? Or, I guess, what size shell?
I prefer a mix of 00 and slugs in a short rifled 12 guage barrel. Standard load is 9 .38 sized pellets.
10. Can the Marlin 795 shoot 22lr and 22 short? If so, can you load them in the same clip?
No, only 22lr. Others will not feed in the magazine and may not cycle the action.
11. go to ammoland.com and then go to their ammunition or sales page
I don’t think high and low brass has anything to do with brass actually.
3. Smooth bore vs. rifled barrel – smooth bore is far more versatile. The rifled bore is for slug shooting saboted rounds. The spin caused by rifling spreads the shot pattern far quicker than a smooth bore. The old maxim was 1″ spread per yard of distance.
4. High brass base indicates magnum load with far more recoil.
7. Most slugs have fins ground on sides, and a cupped base so that front of slug is heavier. This prevents the slug from tumbling, much like a shuttlecock.
9. Best load ? A lot of controversy on that one. Double 00 is what many LEO go with. There is some discussion with slightly smaller buckshot increasing number of pellets for more damage.
Good discussion and there is no such thing as a dumb question. Thanks for the thread.
jrg
3) what loads cannot be used in a rifled barrel?
4) high brass means more power? Higher fps?
Thanks
#7, double ought and slugs are my must haves. Birdshot with magnesium shavings are pretty fun.
That was very educational. Thanks for posting.
The famous if you can only have one question! For a man, a shotgun is a wonderful all round weapon. That is not the case for most women and children (assuming a 12 gauge) — especially in a self defense situation. So if you have a family, a short barreled AR (.223) or a pistol caliber carbine (9mm) are probably better choices. And if you are worried about a SHTF scenario where parts may be hard to find, get a good old revolver (.357/.38) along with a lever action rifle of the same caliber. Or just get all of the above!
1. Yes just make sure your receiver is stamped 3 inch before you load 3 inchers.
2. yes
3. No not a mistake. In fact that is what ya need. Won’t go into it more than that. Get a shotgun with a Modified choke. Forget the screw in chokes. That’s my opinion anyway.
4. High brass is supposed to be more powder so bigger recoil and more power. It’s negligible. If you’re reloading high brass are nice to collect up from the range.
5. See #3
6. Yes but rifling on rifling makes weird stuff happens sometimes down range with accuracy. See #3 again.
7. Not if that’s all ya got. ; ) Try it and see results.
8. Seems weird to me. Never seen that before.
9. Probably considering slugs penetrate like a mother’fer. But the slug is the beast mode setting. And you get greater range with slugs.
Side note. I’m a Remington guy but I like Mossberg too. As much as I hate to say it I would recommend Mossberg only for the simple fact they shoot the mini aguila shells reliably where the Remington will be hit or miss. Those shells are nice for low recoil rounds or recoil sensitive shooters and they increase magazine tube capacity.
I have a 795 and it will shoot them but does not cycle reliably. If it’s survival don’t worry you could manual load for those occasions. Promag 25 rounders work well.
He asked where to get ammo….. hahahahahaha! Try this place. https://www.sgammo.com/ good Oklahoma guys and gals. Yes I plugged them cause they are from my state ; )
Thank you.
Good to hear about the promag for the 795.
If I had to take one gun out of the safe and only have it to hunt with for survival…it would be one of the Savage Model 24Vs. If the “S” was hitting the fan it would be the AR-10.
From what I’ve learned with my KelTec KS-7:
1. Yes, I mix 2.75 and 3 inch shells. Mixing will not have an effect on action. I generally keep 2.75 inch slugs loaded.
2. Shells have the info stamped on side of the plastic. If illegible, then the shell may be too old. You can always load and cycle the unknown rounds to check functionality. DuckDuckGo and a tape measure will help.
3. No, my KS-7 is smooth bore and is quite accurate up to 25 yards.
4. Shells marked as high brass tend to work best, however modern shotguns can fire both. Bird shot shells tend to jam in my shotgun.
5. I do not use a choke, even with a mixed load. Just remember which round is coming and prepare yourself for the kick.
6. & 7. Yes and yes. I’ve not tried a smooth slug via rifled barrel; the smooth barrel I use can handle rifled slugs.
8. Fully load the chamber, cycle the pump to insert a shell into the BCG, and then load your +1.
9. Best defensive shells depend on your location. Kids or precious items in house, then go no larger than #4 buck, bird shot will inflict a lot of pain. Going larger, buck designation decrease as diameter of pellets increase.
Standard load home for me is Hornady Custom Lite reduced recoil slugs.
Cycling the pump is the Human sound equivalent to a rattle snake tail.
Online places for ammunition: Midway, Natchez, and Cheaper Than Dirt.
A shotgun is a crude device with limited useful applications. Not very good at hunting anything other than birds and varmints, but way too noisy to make shooting that one meal animal worth drawing all that attention to yourself for. Just because it’s possible to take down a deer with it doesn’t mean you will ever get close enough to take the shot. Too heavy and bulky to conceal, and the ammo is too heavy and bulky to carry much. You also need to have different loads for different tasks. On top of that tube mags take too long to reload, box mags in shotguns aren’t reliable , and neither has enough capacity.
The one place where a shotgun would shine is shooting down drones. Other than that and busting down doors, the only other thing a shotgun excels at is holding up convenience stores.
If you live anywhere near other people, a semi auto .223 is your best bet hands down. The US military may be a bunch of buffoons, but they are reasonably good at killing people and there is a reason why their chosen killing device is chambered in .223 . If you live all by yourself in the middle of nowhere, I’d recommend a good quality .308 bolt action.
Come on now. I’ll have to get back to you later on this comment.
The problem with a 223 or even the 556, MC, is they are small diameter and very fast, flat trajectory, but have little mass. They tend to put a nice neat hole in things with little real damage. Whats better a 22 or a 40 cal at stopping something??
I agree about the shotguns, they have their niche, but a better all round gun is a hunting rifle, semi or bolt. We will all have out preferences, mine was the 270 which is a great deer rifle with a 150 grain and a moose dropper with a 180. I’m not a LONG range guy due mostly because I’m lazy and don’t want to pack a moose a 1000 meters thru the scrub and brush. So a couple hundred meters is about as far as I’m willing to go. I like the 308s, 3030s but prefer the 270s.
but thats just me…
You’re talking apples and oranges. The shotgun, loaded with shot is capable of defense in your home with less chance of penetrating sheetrock or outside walls. The shotgun is also capable of reaching out a football fields length and harvest big game. Few , maybe no, pistol or rifle can do both of these tasks well.
I said shotguns have their niche and wasn’t talking about home defense when referencing the larger calibers. As for hunting big game with a shot gun and taking an animal at a hundred yards with a slug??? Not sure I’m going to agree with that… have to see it to believe it first.
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/sst-slugs#!/
Two thumbs up on the Hornady stuff. I bought their reloading & ballistic manuals with a Lee reloading set/dies when I started out as a noob with my first Remington 700.
With sabot loads a shotgun can double as a .45-70 or .50-70 and spit a 350 grain or heavier pill at nearly 2,000 fps.
Isn’t that the kind of power to take an elephant? No, correct?
Never dreamed… thx Ed
Now that I live in the country I don’t have to worry about hitting a neighbor with a stray bullet. When I lived in the city I didn’t worry about hitting a neighbor with a stray bullet either.😏
180 grain in a 270!?? No
Yes. the new Winchester 6.8(.277) is the latest whiz bang using the latest fad of “heavy for caliber bullets.” I read an article today where the author took a Boone & Crockett record elk at 600 yards with one shot. 1/8 twist rate instead of the usual 1/10.
yes… I used them for moose.
I’ve only ever had one .270 and it was a piece of crap, made in China, Savage Axis. I didn’t like it and it was probably the rifle’s fault. I also have never come across 180s for a .270.
The thing that separates the .308 from the .270 (and other calibers similar in trajectory and bullet weight) is the extra ammo capacity for both you and the rifle because the overall case size is significantly smaller, and that one can get all sorts of mean setups in .308 not available to others. Some are junk, but some are mil spec. There is no comparison between the combat capabilities of a semi auto rifle meant for hunting and the ones made for wasting sand people. The same can be said for bolt guns, albeit with a smaller gap. For a rifle only used for deer hunting, .270 is probably a better caliber. Not so much for apocalypse time. My opinion.
Yes, taking down large game with a .223 would be a severe pain in the ass, but I think its attributes would more than make up for its moose hunting shortcomings in a situation when you are being shot at. Like the .308, .223/.556 comes in all sorts of crazy platforms meant for military applications. Serious hardware with spots to put all sorts of useful gadgets on it if you desire, as long as you are willing to spend a decent amount of money. That, along with the tiny size of the rounds, means a lot more ammo in the gun and on you. The light weight and minimal recoil mean that you can acquire and reacquire targets much faster after firing a round, and make it tame enough for civilians (women and children) to use. Kyle Rittenhouse was able to do things that neither a shotgun or handgun could do in tight quarters with AR15. If you are referring to a .40 S&W, I would much rather be shot with that than a .223…
In my gun closet I had a Husqvarna and Winchester 270’s. The 180 grains were hand loads as they were not available as commercial loads, not sure if they are now either as I don’t have these guns anymore.
Here in canukistan decking out a 223/556 is very expensive and the rifles are mostly restricted, meaning you can’t take them anywhere but the range. In a SHTF situation its entirely debatable what gun is the best all around gun to have. Some will argue the 223/556’s, or shot guns, hunting rifle and others bows/crossbows.
I argue it makes not one iota difference what someone else thinks is best. Its whats best for you and what you are capable of handling well in any situation. It could be a long range take down or a CQ platform, it don’t matter. What matters is recognising the platforms limitation and being able to compensate.
As for being shot… prefer not to be shot at all, but seeing the differences in damage my 40’s do over a 223… not much confidence you will go far after being hit with a 40 lead and copper amalgam rudely inserted into your body.
Arguments can be made for throwing copious amounts of lead downrange, I get that. But does it make sense in terms of cost and amount of ammo you’d have to carry?? Whats nice about the 308 & 270’s is they can reach out to touch someone and they are also pretty good up close too… yes I know there are np 270 AR platforms.
Anyrate thx for the replies gentlemen…
#1- 12 ga. Shotguns can be chambered in 2 and 3/4, 3 and, 3 and 1/2 inches. A shotgun can shoot a shell shorter than but not longer than its chamber.
Don’t forget, certain Mossberg models will reliably feed 1 3/4″ Aguila short shells with an OPSol adapter fixed in the loading port. This allows a higher ammo capacity with slightly lower recoil in a short-barreled shotgun like the Shockwave.
One of my desires is a nice 8+1 Parkerized MILSPEC 590A1 pump. It would allow more ammo without that double aught kick.
https://www.opsolmini-clip.com/
My 930 JM Pro holds 9+1 rounds of 3″ mags. It really rips through regular shells and not bad with 2 3/4″ buck loads. I have fired 3″ mags loaded with #1 buck and that will shake your fillings loose. One or two of those would clear a city street.
I like the looks of that GI 590. If you get one I hope they still have the bayonet lug just to annoy Progs.
#4 – Distinction without difference for most of us. Really only useful if you reload shotshells. Also – Make sure it’s really brass. Some shells nowadays use steel which may cause cycling issues if you run a semi-auto.
#8 – To my knowledge this is the norm for any semi-auto or pump. I’m not an expert, but I believe they have the same hammer/firing pin setup as any auto loading firearm. Your semi-auto pistol or AR has the firing pin energized (unless it has a decocker) and depends on the user to not be stupid. Use the safeties – especially the one between your ears.
2 shotguns, 1 for birds/small game with various chokes and another with no choke for everything else, both smoothbore 12 ga and with 3 1/2″ chamber. You can mix shell lengths, but no need to.
The birdgun ought to have a wide selection of loads with different shot sizes and shot weights, as in dove to turkey, say from #7 1/2 to #4 . The everything else set up with the larger shot sizes, say from #4 to 00Buck and slug. A good close range defensive load is a #4/#5 combo load that will not over-penetrate and hit your neighbor’s house (do not know if those are still available).
Examples: Rem 870 for hunting and Mossberg 590A1 for defense. Rifled slugs if needed. The Mossbergs (500, 590, 590A1) can handle the mini-shells (1 3/4″) with the OpSol Mini-Clip adapter for higher capacity where range is not an issue.
Just get the 590 with different barrels for different games.
No one has mentioned a shotgun develops its highest velocity at 24 inches. Longer doesn’t add to performance. Longer provides an improved sight radius which is why trap and skeet shooters use long barrels.
Personally, if you can only have one gun, to cover every possibility, well, I would go with a .22. Cheap ammo, can feed you, can carry thousands of rounds on you in a pinch.
There is no gun that can do everything. Snipe rifle? Great for that, not so good for small game to feed yourself, heavy, expensive ammo. Shotgun? No sniping and difficult to use for large game. (Go shoot a heavy slug and tell me how you like the kick!). Handgun? Well, not good for hunting, and almost no one can hit anything outside about 20 feet. Etc etc etc. I vote .22. But why have just one gun?
The last gun talk I posted convinced me to get the Marlin 795. Winmag would have been better but, I’ll live. Yes, carrying thousands of rounds is very nice. What do they say about quantity…it has a quality all it’s own.
Ruger bought Marlin from the bankruptcy court. Marlin will be better than ever going forward.
I did not know this. Interesting. Looked it up and sure enough it seems they are excited to acquire it so that is a positive. Thanks.
I was a bit torn back in the day when I snagged my 795. It was that or the 10/22. I loved the marlin model 60 and wanted that microgroove barrel with mag feeding. I haven’t been disappointed. The Marlin is lighter I believe too. I think the 10/22 is more robust in the receiver area but I’ve never had a problem with the 795.
#4 buckshot for humans. Penetration plus density of pattern.
Don’t forget about the venerable 20 ga. Plenty of needed power with a whole lot less kick. Great for the ladies, seniors and kids.
I have some shells that are stamped(?) with an “8” and a “3 1/4 – 1 1/8”. I assume the “8” means 8 pellets but what does the “3 1/4 – 1 1/8” mean?
Nope, that wasn’t it. I cut it open. There were about 100 little pellets in there. I don’t know what those numbers mean.