An Anonymous poster recently wondered if 1/3 of mankind perishes in the book of Revelation. No, the number is much larger. But, how large? I don’t know, as I’ve never done the math. Now is the time to do the math. The carnage in Revelation starts in chapter 6. I will calculate the death total in the order in which it appears.
[This note written AFTER I did the calculations. Surprisingly, while there is massive carnage and death, only three verses give the total actual deaths of humans, as a percentage!]
If you’ve never read Revelation, or it’s been a long time, you might enjoy reading this summary. You will have a basic, but solid, understanding of what Christians are talking about regarding End Time events. Except for one or two snarky comments, I offer no commentary when reviewing each chapter. It’s a Sgt. Joe Friday presentation; “Just the facts, Ma’am.” I do present Conclusions and Observations afterwards. This is presented on purpose to be a quick read (about 15 minutes), a revealing of the main themes of each chapter, while ignoring fluff-stuff.
I think you will be shocked at the level of bloodshed and violence, including torture.
I titled this “GOD’S Great Reset” because that’s exactly what it is. A great many people — believers, and non-believers alike — achingly long for the Judgement of God. We ache for God’s vengeance and justice to be meted out to what we see as Great Evil consuming our world. Who can blame them? Those who suffer have been crying out for thousands of years. But, to such people I ask; “Do you have any idea how gruesome that judgment will be? What makes you think YOU will survive? Be careful what you wish for!”
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Starting Wiki Population: 7,674,000,000 (The remaining population after each carnage will be in parenthesis)
REVELATION 6
Seal 1: White horse. The rider has a bow, a crown, and is “bent on conquest” — No deaths
Seal 2: Red Horse, takes away peace and “makes people kill each other” — Deaths not given
Seal 3: Black Horse, economic ruin (a day’s wages for a loaf of bread) — Deaths not given.
Seal 4: Pale Horse. Rider named Death. Hades follows him. Death comes via “sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth“—- 25% die (1,918,500,000 die / 5,755,500,000 left)
Seal 5: Souls of martyrs in heaven. They cry out in a loud voice to God “to avenge our blood” — No deaths.
Seal 6: Massive earthquakes all over the glove. Sun turns black. Moon turns blood red. Stars fall from heaven. The heavens recede “like a scroll being rolled up“. EVERY mountain and island was “removed from its place” Every human on earth begs for death. — Deaths not given
REVELATION 7
144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel get seals on their foreheads. Billions of people (“a multitude that no one could count”) clothed in white robes wave palm branches and tell God how great He is. ALL the angels., elders, and four living creatures do likewise.—- No deaths.
REVELATION 8
Seal 7: Seal opened. Silence in heaven for 30 minutes. Then 7 angels with 7 trumpets appear. An angel appears with a golden censer which contains “the prayers of all God’s people“. The angel hurls the censer on the earth which results in “thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning and an earthquake“.—- No deaths.
Trumpet 1: Hail and fire mixed with blood. One third of earth, trees, and all green grass burned up. — Deaths not given.
Trumpet 2: Huge burning mountain thrown in the sea. One third of sea turns to blood. One third of everything living in the sea dies. One third of ships sunk . — Deaths unknown.
Trumpet 3: A star named Wormwood crashes into one third of the rivers and springs. One third of the rivers turn bitter. — Deaths unknown but, “Many people died”
Trumpet 4: One third of the sun, moon, and stars are struck and are “turned dark”. An eagle appears and cries out that the next three trumpets (three “woes“) will be even worse. — Deaths not given. (But, I’m guessing that if one third of the sun goes dark say, at noon, that by 12:15 the entire population of the world would be Frozen Popsicles.)
REVELATION 9
Trumpet 5: The first “woe”. An angel falls to earth and is given the key to the Abyss … which produces smoke like “from a gigantic furnace“. The sun and sky are darkened. Again.
A legion of truly scary and fearsome locusts (like scorpions) come forth from the smoke, led by the “Destroyer”. They have hair like a woman and teeth like a lion. (Nancy Pelosi?) They are not allowed to harm anyone having “the seal of God on their foreheads”. They may harm, but not kill, everyone else. The locust’s Marching Orders; “only to torture them for five months.” Once again, people pray for death but, it won’t be given. — No deaths.
Trumpet 6: Four angels who have been hanging out for eons “at the great river Euphrates” are finally released. There are “two hundred million” enemy mounted troops stationed by the Euphrates.—- One third of humanity dies (1,899,315,000 die / 3,856,185,000 left) .The people left alive still refuse to repent.
REVELATION 10
Interlude: A “mighty angel” comes down from heaven. This is an interesting angel.
[The angel is robed in a cloud, has a rainbow above his head, a face like the sun, legs like fiery pillars (one foot on the sea and one on land), roars like a lion (which results in “seven thunders” speaking — but we’re not allowed to know what they said). The angel is holding a little scroll. The narrator eats the scroll, which is sweet to his tongue but bitter in his stomach.]
The most important takeaway in this chapter is this; the angel reveals that when the 7th trumpet sounds “the mystery of God will be accomplished”. —- No deaths.
REVELATION 11
Two witnesses prophecy in Jerusalem for 42 months. They have power to cause droughts, turn water into blood, and “strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want“. They are like Superman … they kill anyone who tries to harm them via “fire [which] comes from their mouths.”
After 42 months the Beast kills them. [First mention of the Beast. It is the same as Beast #1 in Rev. 13.] For three and a half days all the inhabitants of the earth rejoice and give each other gifts because these two witnesses caused all people great torment. Then they are resurrected and go”up to heaven in a cloud“.
Immediately, a great earthquake rocks Jerusalem and 7,000 die. —- Deaths (7,000 die / 3, 856,178,000 left). This time the survivors “gave glory to the God of heaven.“.
REVELATION 12
This chapter opens with heavy symbolism dealing with Israel and Jesus.
The reader is introduced to a “woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.” She’s about to give birth but “an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads” tries to prevent it, and fails. The dragon’s tail also sweeps “a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth“.
Then war breaks out in heaven. Satan loses. Satan is hurled to Earth, along with his angels. Satan is really pissed off. The dragon (Satan) tries to kill the woman and child. He fails. The dragon decides to wage war against the woman’s offspring, which are “those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus“—- No deaths.
REVELATION 13
The Dragon is standing by the seashore when a Beast with 10 horns and 10 heads arises from the sea. The Beast blasphemes God and wages war against God’s people. All the rest of the people love the Beast and the Dragon. The beast suffers a fatal wound on one head.
A second Beast rises … this one out of the Earth. It is even more powerful than the first Beast. It heals the fatal head wound of the first Beast. The second Beast makes everyone get a “666” mark on their foreheads. The number represents a man. The 2nd Beast gives power to the 1st Beast so that the 1st beast can kill people who don’t worship it. —- Deaths unknown.
REVELATION 14
144,000 worship God on Mt. Zion.They sing a song. No one else knows how to sing this song. The 144,000 are all virgins.
One angel “flying in midair” was shouting that people need to fear God for judgment is coming, Another angel flying around announced that Babylon has fallen. A third angel announces that anyone who took the mark is really screwed – being tormented with burning sulfur forever. This endless torture is done in the presence of angels and the Lamb. —- Total deaths unknown.
An angel sitting on “a white cloud” tells one “like the son of man” to “Take your sickle and reap”. Another angel with a sickle joins in. Another angel in charge of fire also joins in. They reap. One angel swings his sickle and throws the grapes (people) into “the great winepress of God’s wrath“. The blood rose “as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 180 miles” —- Deaths unknown. [One author calculated that that amount of blood would require almost 12,000 times the current population of the planet Earth! Read here, That’s A Lotta Blood!
REVELATION 15
Announces 7 more angels are coming with 7 more plagues … bowls of wrath.
[Note: This could be a prophecy about America. Just when you thought things couldn’t possibly get any worse, well … they can!]
Meanwhile, people who had been victorious over the beast “held harps given them by God” and are singing “Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty.” —- No deaths.
REVELATION 16
Bowl 1: Ugly festering sores break out on those who have The Mark. —- No deaths.
Bowl 2: The sea turns “into blood like that of a dead person” EVERY living thing in the sea dies. —- No human deaths.
Bowl 3: All rivers and springs turn into blood. —- No deaths.
Bowl 4: Sun scorches people with fire. —- No deaths.
Bowl 5: The Beast’s Kingdom (Earth) plunged into darkness. People gnaw their tongues in agony. —- No deaths.
Bowl 6: The Euphrates is dried up to prepare the way for the Kings of the East. Three demonic spirits that look like frogs perform signs and gather the Kings of the world for the big battle. —- No deaths.
Bowl 7: An angel pours the bowl into the air. A voice says “It is done”. The biggest earthquake of all time occurs. The cities of the nations collapse. EVERY island and mountain disappears. Hailstones weighing 100 pounds fall on people. —- Number of deaths not given. But, it must have been very many.
REVELATION 17
The Babylon chapter. There is a woman bedecked in gold, precious stones and pearls and the name written on her forehead is, “Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Prostitutes And Of The Abominations Of The Earth.”
She is sitting on a scarlet beast with 7 heads and 10 horns. The main clue as to who she represents is this; “The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits”. [It’s Rome.] The 10 horns are 10 kings who wage war against the saints … for “one hour”. Shock and awe! The beast and 10 kings eventually turn on the prostitute and “they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire”. —- Deaths not given.
REVELATION 18
First God warns his people regarding Babylon; “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues.“
The rest of the chapter chronicles the lament of the entire world at the fall of Babylon– from kings to merchants to consumers, they all weep — for many “grew rich from her excessive luxuries“.
An angel picks up a boulder the size of a millstone, casts it into the sea, and proclaims : “With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down, never to be found again.” Auf Wiedersehn, Babylon. —- Deaths not given.
REVELATION 19
The first half of the chapter shows all of heaven rejoicing over the fall of Babylon; great multitudes, the 24 elders, the 4 living creatures, a voice from the throne, and more great multitudes. And a partridge in a pear tree.
Then the heavens open up, and a rider named “Faithful and True” appears on a white horse. The writer of Revelation gives enough clues to identify the rider as Jesus. Then an angel “standing in the sun” cries out to the birds “flying in midair”;
—- “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
And then, rather matter-of-factly, almost anticlimactically, with little fanfare, in a mere 109 words (NIV) — the Beast and False Prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire. The Kings of the Earth and their massive armies are killed by “the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse”. —- Deaths unknown, but must have been many millions.
And thus ends the carnage portion of God’s Great Reset.
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But, what about the rest of the Great Reset? How does the story end?
— REV. 20; Satan is cast into the Abyss for 1,000 years. Those who did not take The Mark are brought back to life and reign with Christ 1,000 years. The rest of the dead, the non-martyrs, come to life after the 1,000 years. This is “the first resurrection“. Something called “the second death” will have no power over them and, they also, reign with Christ for 1,000 years.
After 1,000 years Satan is released. Satan gathers an enormous army – Gog and Magog (again!) – and loses. Again. At last, Satan is cast into the lake of burning sulfur forever and ever.
Next we see a great white throne, all the dead are there, and books are opened. One book is called the Book of Life. If you’re name is not in it, you will be thrown into the lake of fire.
— REV. 21; The “first earth” has passed away. This chapter is all about “a new heaven and a new earth” and a detailed description of the New Jerusalem.
The New Jerusalem comes down from heaven. It is spectacular with streets of gold as transparent as glass. The city is about 1,400 miles long on each side. Huge walls made with 12 layers of precious jewels. Twelve gigantic gates made from a single pearl (must have come from a really really Big Oyster).
There are no more tears, no death. The city doesn’t even need a sun or moon because the glory of God gives it light.
— REV. 22; More description of the beauty of heaven. There is a “river of the water of life” which flows from the throne of God and down the middle of Main Street. There is also a “tree of life” on each side of the river which yields fruit every month. The curse has been lifted.
An angel appears to John and announces that all this stuff described in Revelation “must soon take place”. Apparently there are people living outside the city gates; — “Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.”
People are warned not to add to this Revelation, and if they do “God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll“. People are warned not to subtract from this Revelation, and if they do “God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life“.
The second to last verse of the Bible ends with Jesus saying “Yes, I am coming soon.”.
This is the Great Reset, from beginning to end, according to God.
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ANALYSIS ON NUMBER OF DEAD PEOPLE
The two main verses which give the the percentage of dead people are the 4th seal (25% dead) and the 6th trumpet (33% dead). At a bare minimum, this comes out to just under 50% of the world croaking …. about 3.8 BILLION people.
The number must be much higher than that, of course. All we can do is speculate and estimate;
— No sun! It seems the most deaths would occur in those instances where the sun turns dark; Trumpet 4 where 1/3 of the sun goes dark, Trumpet 5 where the sun goes dark, and Seal 6 where the sun turns black.
If you put a steamy cup of coffee in the refrigerator, it wouldn’t immediately turn cold. The Earth’s atmosphere will retain heat for a short while, and our molten core will provide some heat. But,it won’t last long. Within a year temperature will drop to -100 degrees. Also, all photosynthesis stops immediately. That can’t be good for food supply … for us, and animals. But, I think it is sheer terror and panic which will be the real killer … by the tens, if not hundreds, of millions. See How Long Would We Have If The Sun Went Out
— Other Horses: The red horse makes “people kill each other“. The black horse brings economic ruin.
— Earthquakes: Seal 6 and Bowl 7 bring massive worldwide earthquakes.
— Misc: Worldwide famines, drought, plagues of every kind, 100 pound hailstones, contamination of water, every mountain and island “removed from its place“, and a river of blood 180 miles long …… must certainly result in hundreds of millions of deaths.
— What Jesus said: What we do know is what Jesus said (Mt. 24:22) — “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.“. Indeed, the Terror of Tribulation would have wiped out all humanity, except for Jesus’ return.
But, all the terrors (7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 bowls) actually DO take place! So, what is actually “cut short“? Well, the Tribulation itself was cut short to 7 years! In other words, God preordained, before time immemorial, that when the Tribulation comes that it would be limited (cut short) to seven years. Had it gone on any longer no flesh would have survived. The days of woe and tribulation, therefore, were shortened to seven years specifically for “the elect“.
Who are the elect? They are people still alive on Earth after the seven years of Tribulation. It can be no one else. The elect throughout the Bible is always a very small number. Many are chosen, but few are called. Jesus said, “Broad is the road that leads to destruction, and MANY enter through it. Narrow is the road that leads to life, and only a FEW find it.“
Based on the above, I am arbitrarily, but reasonably, estimating that a minimum of 95% of the world population will be dead at the end of the seventh year of woe and tribulation. I see 7,290,300,000 dead people.
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CLOSING THOUGHTS: 6 THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
1)- The writer of Revelation (supposedly, John) is going through an awful lot of gyrations to have God dispense of a few billion bad dudes. Doesn’t he know God is all-powerful? God could easily wipe out the human race with just one plague …. like, Covid-19. Or, maybe that’s what the Shit Shot is all about? Doesn’t he know God is all-knowing? God knows who the assholes are! Doesn’t he know God speaks things into happening? God only needs to say, “Hey, all you assholes. Die!” … and it would be done. Why, all this …. drama?
2)- Speaking of drama, the book of Revelation, as you have just seen and read, is a book of absolute maximum terror. Stephen King couldn’t write a more terror filler horror story. Stephen Spielberg couldn’t film it accurately … splashing all that blood and gore and suffering and pain on the big screen would make even the most hard-core psychopath vomit after five minutes.
Yet, we are to believe that God takes pleasure in all this? Recall what is said in Revelation 14 — “They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.” Recall that the locusts were told to “torture” people for five months. Recall that people cry out for death … and not even that final dignity is given for they haven’t yet been tortured enough. What kind of Deity is this really … this one which John imagines? Is this a God worthy of worship? Or, is there more to the story? Hmmm, stay tuned.
3)- I find the fifth seal (Rev. 6) to be particularly odd. This is where the martyred loudly cry out to God “How long … until you … avenge our blood?“. So, they’re in heaven, a fantastically wonderful happy place of joy, love, and forgiveness …. and people are still looking for revenge?? C’mon, man!
4)- I wish people would stop associating “666” with the Beast, or antichrist, or whatever. Stop getting your theology from TV or the movies. The one short reference to that number clearly states it is “the number of A MAN“. A man who lived at THAT time, and no other time, especially our time. Read The Untold Truth About The Antichrist
5)- When you read through the summary of Revelation 6 through Revelation 22 did you read anything which indicated the sudden disappearance (aka, the Rapture) of all Christians? I’ll answer that in case you didn’t read it — the answer is a resounding “No!”. Yet, all proponents of Rapture theology seek support for their position from the book of Revelation! This is very very odd. Hmmmm.
But, I didn’t summarize Chapters 1 thru 5. Is there anything in those chapters which indicate some kind of “Rapture”? Actually, there could be, in Revelation 3:10;
“ Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.”
The only escape hatch provided by the book of Revelation is the snatching away of believers BEFORE ANY EVENT IN REVELATION 6 – 19 EVEN STARTS. For a thorough (25 pages) understanding of this view read “The Rapture And The Book Of Revelation”
And this brings me to my final musings.
6) WHAT IF???
—- What if a non-literal interpretation of Revelation’s blood, gore, and mayhem relieves that book and its depiction of God of its odiousness? Wouldn’t that be worth investigating?
—- What if you change your thinking about the book? Do you think you will be cast into the lake of fire?
—- What if the real message of Revelation is about transformation, justice, and hope … and not about war, destruction, and despair?
—- What if God judges evil by restoring the world (Rev. 21:1) …. rather than destroying it?
—- What if Revelation was written to recount the suffering, persecution, and hopes encountered by first-century Christians and then Christians throughout time ….. instead of only one generation of Christians far off in some unknown future, now 2,000 years and counting?
—- What if everything you thought you knew about Revelation might be in error? Would you at least pursue truth more diligently? I hope so. You can handle the truth!
THE END
Pass.
Revelations is nothing more than Jewish mysticism repackaged by the clergy to fear monger and control people. There’s NOTHING in Jesus’ teaching to support it.
Technically, or literally, Jesus doesn’t support ANY of the New Testament since, you know, it wasn’t wasn’t even written until decades after he died.
But, that’s really not the point.
The article raises far greater issues than whether or not Jesus supports events and themes in Revelation. (Actually, he does.) I’d spell out those greater issues for you, but you wouldn’t get it.
So, go ahead and “pass”, not that I give two hoots and a holler. Continue to stay with the little knowledge you have since that’s the state you seem to enjoy.
If he even existed. There’s no proof Jesus was even a real man. If he was, there’s strong evidence he would have been a Hellenistic Jew or he would’ve been heavily influenced by the Greek rulers of Egypt that were in power for the 300 years before he was born or the Greek philosophers from Alexandria.
Revelation is definitely Jewish mysticism that’s full of Gematria and Kabbalistic symbolism. In fact, many early Christian sects rejected Revelations as heresy and some still refuse to include it in their bibles. Revelation wasn’t even widely accepted to be included in the New Testament until 508 AD. Nearly 200 years after the Council of Nicaea. There’s still debate about who wrote it because it doesn’t match the literally style of any of the other biblical authors.
Don’t get testy with me because YOU don’t know your ancient history.
There is an entire discipline, Apologetics, that shows otherwise. There is no rational explanation for the survival and growth of Christianity based upon human only influence.
Wanna bet?
Take away all religious aspects about Jesus’ life and it’s still a story. How do you think any of the mythologies around the world survived before the printing press and universal literacy? They were passed down as word-of-mouth stories from generation to generation.
There’s a reason most of the stories about Jesus were allegories.
I’m not the one betting, you are.
But one thing is certain, Gutenberg was a marked man after his printing press was used to spread the word.
Joseph Atwill’s book, Caesars Messiah , is a thought provoking read on Jesus being a fictional character created to co-op an anti-roman revolutionary movement that was effectively winning hearts and minds while kicking ass.
I can’t be sure of the veracity of Atwill’s story or the bible. Until, i get this damned time machine working
“Take away all religious aspects about Jesus’ life and it’s still a story.”
I’m not sure if this is deeply profound, or extraordinarily shallow…
If you don’t believe Jesus was a Prophet of God, there are much better stories, in my opinion…
Yeshua Ben Joseph, our Jesus Christ is actually mentioned several times in the Quran as an actual prophet. So yes, he did exist in the flesh. While some may propose he was only a man, I do believe he was the Son of God in the flesh.
Soulds like double-speak
How long have you labored under the misconception that Faith is rational?
Wait, let me guess, you are entirely irrational, and think your particular Faith is the only Truth.
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”
The Bible contains information on how to get saved,
Perhaps.
I prefer the part where Jesus said the way to salvation was to love God and love your neighbor as yourself.
The instructions are simple, but the execution is very difficult for humans.
Do you prefer some other part of the Bible, giving other instructions?
Dear Underwood, I love it when people say things like, “I prefer the part where Jesus said the way to salvation was to love God and love your neighbor as yourself.” To which Jesus would have replied, Matthew 22:29 “You are in error because you do not know the scriptures………” You say “You prefer…..” (Me, myself, and I) and then take Jesus’ words out of context. In Matthew chapter 22 most of the context is Jesus dealing with Pharisees and Saducees who are asking Jesus questions trying to trip him up……..in Matthew 22:34-40 see below……
The Greatest Commandment
34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
As you can see Underwood the context has nothing to do with salvation, but in answering the question, “which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” and no one is saved by the law………..
The 10 commandments are all pretty clear instructions, and they are not only very difficult to maintain, but IMPOSSIBLE and breaking even one ruins your chance of saving yourself. Thus the need for Jesus…………..
I will answer your question of “Do you prefer some other part of the Bible, giving other instructions?” Gosh, I am so glad you asked that question :)……….read the book of John and notice how many times he says believe……………….because that is the ONLY requirement to salvation……………………..I especially like the woman at the well……we have so much in common…………..
There is no ask Jesus into your heart………………..say you’re sorry……………….promise never to sin again…………..pray a prayer…………if you would like to look a little deeper into this, here is a link to a good book to read…………
Go to faithalone.org – store and book – A Free Grace Primer
There’s more evidence that Jesus existed than there is that Alexander the Great existed.
The level of stupidity this displays is astounding. I was going to say ignorance, but I think you have to work to be this wrong.
I ignore votes generally, but the sad thing is that 22 people thought you were right. This is like a Mirror Test, and 22 people just proved they’re too dumb to even be human.
“…22 people just proved they’re too dumb to even be human.”
This reminds me of my argument that some organic humanoids never become human, and that abortion should be permitted (encouraged) up until the end of the 18th year, provided both biological parents agree.
Human- oid is correct, it means not actually human
However I am absolutely opposed to abortion for -healthy- whites. All other races can can murder their fetuses at any age, as far as I’m concerned.
Swell.
Are you helping to try to institute a government in America where abortion is illegal for whites and required for everyone else, or will you just continue to make if free and easily available to everyone but white women, for who it will be prohibited.
Is this your own original idea?
It’s very bad on many levels.
Read my reply to Underwood above.
You are welcome.
John wrote the last
book in the Bible………………also, the book of John.
Also 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John.
The last book in the Bible created and published by the Emperor Constantine’s hacks and flunkies that is.
They picked and chose to please Constantine and his advisors, as cronies will do.
Before the Roman Emperor Constantine decided He needed one, there was no Bible.
The debate concerning usage of early Christian Scripture has not been settled as far as I know. From my studies since 2009 with verse by verse ministry dot org, I am comfortable claiming the 12 Apostles and Church members were familiar with OT Scripture concerning the importance of Jesus’ return to earth. The remnant have ‘eyes for eternity’, meaning they have faith in the attributes of the Lord. A few attributes of the Lord:
Isa 11:1 – There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
Isa 11:2 – The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.
Isa 11:3 – His delight is in the fear of the LORD, And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes,
Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;
Isa 11:4 – But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, And decide with equity for the meek of the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.
My studies of Revelation with vbvm has been an online fellowship with these seven attributes of the Lord lighting up the path, as numerous Scriptures (not just Daniel) from the Holy bible were offered to teach the whole book of Revelation.
Even with these attributes of the Lord recorded in Revelation, the debate goes on.
The Debate Over the Muratorian Fragment and the Development of the Canon* 1992
—
C. E. Hill
Aside from this TBP topic, hope springtime offers for you naturally refulgent horizons.
As best I remember, Jesus said the Kingdom of God would come upon the earth in his disciples lifetimes, and at that point, Jesus would judge the living and the dead.
I can’t remember if Jesus will do the judging on earth, or from heaven, and don’t think it really matters.
Why would the author of Revelations, if he was a Jewish Mystic, identify MYSTERY BABYLON (the only entity in the entire Bible spelled out with all capitals) as the great whore? The word mystery is the root of mysticism. Your argument follows circular logic.
Wasn’t greek written without upper and lower cases back then?
Actually, the very oldest Greek texts were ALL capital letters. The small lettered texts “minuscule script” came later. In either case, I believe it was all-or-nothing. All caps, or all lower case — they did not mix and match.
Additionally, there were no spaces and punctuation marks. This presents challenges in translation.
For example, an English phrase with no spaces — godisnowhere
Does that mean “god is nowhere”, or “god is now here”? HUGE difference,no?
“Does that mean “god is nowhere”, or “god is now here”? HUGE difference,no?”
Seriously? You are confused about which meaning was intended?
Why?
The Circle is of Great Importance to THE WHORE OF BABYLON, no doubt about it.
Zechariah 6:12
“And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:”
King James Version (KJV)
Mark 15:26
“And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.”
King James Version (KJV)
The greatest barrier to receiving truth, is to believe you already have it. I am astounded at the ignorance of the author of this site. You do realise that Christians cease to be in this world after the Rapture (the great snatching away, 1 Thess 4 17. There will only be the “earth dwellers” and people aligned with Satan left here, although an indeterminate number will be saved “as though through fire.”
Stephanine, it would repay you big time to do some basic Bible study and not display your ignorance.
I used to believe that a majority of Americans were Bible believing Christians, but I find little evidence of that on close examination.
I urgently implore you all to read 2 Peter 3 4.
Need to read further I Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
And I Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
And all shall happen in the hour of Christ’s return:
31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
The word raprure is never used in the bible. The concept began fairly recent with the “idea” of a rapture by John Darby (1830). The reader has to remember the book of Revelation was written to the 7 churches, thus many 7’s or multiples used in the text. And that John was seeing a vision, not writing commands given him by the Holy Spirit. For a very thorough study of Revelation, go to WVBS.org and do a search. Long series of videos (12, I think) but if you really want the truth, this is it.
You might enjoy this read also,
Not very many of the Christians I know and have known pay any attention to Revelations.
It’s very, very difficult to turn the Christian Bible into anything coherent, unless you read it in it’s historical perspective.
The Tribe of Israel that was liberated from Egypt needed a vengeful and jealous God, so that’s how God appeared to them. They were in essence an barbaric Middle Eastern tribe, and without strict rules, strictly enforced, they would have been off the rails all the time.
By the time of the Roman Empire, the Middle East was ready for a more rational framework, extending beyond tribalism and ritual, opening to the idea that humanity is One Tribe Under God, and love is the greatest precept.
Myself, I’m glad to replace revenge with love, although it’s not always easy.
Give God some credit. God sent many Prophets to many peoples’s over time, in many places
There is a book, written by Emmitt O’Regan,” Unveiling the Apocalypse: Prophecy in Catholic Tradition “and pretty much goes into amazing detail of all events, linr by line, and their meaning (scriptural and literal) . Christ is real, the 2nd Person of the Blessed Trinity. God created you and loves you. He wants you to be with Him in Heaven in the end. Love of Christ, His Mercy and your faith will bring you home. Be good to your neighbors, it will be a grueling long journey.
If the Lord ‘raptures’ or “snatches away” the believers before The Great Tribulation, then was does He state that He will shorten the days of The Tribulation for the elects sake? It can only mean that the elect are present to suffer through it, and I posit that it is intended by the followers of Satan to punish those faithful believers, and God allows a certain amount of it as ‘to try them like fine silver or gold in the fiery furnace to purify them’.
Doc,
“If the Lord ‘raptures’ or “snatches away” the believers before The Great Tribulation, then was does He state that He will shorten the days of The Tribulation for the elects sake?”
John of Patmos said that.
You are free to think he was a great Prophet and that God was speaking to us through him, but I don’t.
It could be risky to attribute the words of John of Patmos to God.
I won’t do it.
He shortens it for the newly converted post rapture believers
They are not the elect.
All I know about myths is that there are some truths embedded. The challenge is to know the truth and still enjoy the narrative.
“If he even existed. There’s no proof Jesus was even a real man. ”
Roman documents indicate otherwise.
As well as eye wittnesses of Him that were not professed followers of Christ, i.e. Tacitus and Josephus to name 2
both Pliny’s as well… and there are more
There’s documentation proving Jesus didn’t exist?
Or, is it Roman documentation proving Jesus was trans?
I think most white people assume jesus was historical, because for ages the bible has been taught to us as literal history. Or because we learned from our parents, it seems that anyone who was raised as christians may become anti-christian, but always seem to assume that jesus existed. Just like christians become atheists, but keep the same values (secular humanism, crap like that)
Personally, I think it was a myth that was weaponized by jews to weaken us, the whole thing is so ludicrous from a racial standpoint. Anyone interested in that can look up Revilo Oliver.
For those who are scared to think ill of God’s Chosen People, there’s a lefty named Richard Carrier who wrote On the Historicity of Jesus. It’s got some gay reasoning about probability, but has good information and he comes at the topic from many angles. There is a pirated version of the book and audio book.
Well if that were the case then you’d have to ignore the copious amounts of historical information from written documents from the day, the archeological evidences and the fact that the religious jews hated Christ and wanted him dead and his followers as well. Worst planning ever.
I’m not ignoring anything, except that part about jews hating early christians. jewish sects hate each other all the time so I don’t see that as relevant.
Your definition of ‘copious’, ‘evidences’, and ‘fact’ must be quite different from mine.
The Rabbis who controlled the Judaism hated Jesus, probably more than the Roman bureaucrats. Both saw him as a disruptive influence, a threat to their power.
As far as evidence, I thought you said there was none?
Anyway, what’s important is the message of Jesus. Even if white people invented the message long after Jesus lived, it’s still what’s important.
If you disagree with the messages of Jesus, we could talk about that.
jews can hate christians without implying our idea of jesus actually existed. jews hate or believe in plenty of provably false things
I do disagree with the messages of jesus. I sum them up as antithetical to the spirit of white people. They are weak and slavish. To sell christianity to Whites (I’m not counting Greeks or lower class Romans of that era as Whites, I mean people like the Germans) the later christians had to reinvent jesus as a warrior figure. What did a proud, homogenous warlike race need with an asiatic unworldly saviour of individuals?
And even the jesus of the bible had no use for non-jews. Only later did jews who claimed to have visions of jesus decide that they needed to spread the belief to gentiles.
It seems to me that Jews don’t hate others unless those others attack them, but yes, individual Jews are as free as anybody to hate whoever they want to.
You say this, anonymously-
“I do disagree with the messages of jesus. I sum them up as antithetical to the spirit of white people.”
Let me start by asking what you mean by “the spirit of white people”.
Is that something you just made up on the fly?
You’re a real hoot!. LOL
“I think most white people assume jesus was historical..”
Ha ha. LOL
Who are you calling white?
Are you not white? What are you asking?
You mentioned “most white people”, which makes it perfectly legitimate for me to ask you, what do you mean by white? I need that information so that I can determine who you are talking about that have assumed Jesus was White.
You really don’t know what you’re talking about… Support your BS. How exactly does Revelation support gamatria kabbaalistic symbolism….. If you knew anything at all… Jesus was killed by that system. Jesus was a rebel.
” How exactly does Revelation support gamatria kabbaalistic symbolism..”
Obviously, nothing can support gamatris kabbaalisticism, symbolic or not…
Well, OK, on second thought, faith can support anything if faith is blind.
“If he even existed. There’s no proof Jesus was even a real man.”
Why not just talk about the message of Jesus?
Try being open minded, and imagining that there is a God, and Jesus was one of His Prophets.
Can you find anything in the record of Jesus’ messages that you agree with? I can.
I like that thing in Revelation about being hot or cold, but if you’re lukewarm I’ll spit you out. Of course, that was just someone with a vision of jesus.
“there is a God, and Jesus was one of His Prophets.”
You a muslim?
Me? No. I’m not religious. I was pushed into being a member of the Methodist Church back in 1960, but religion never did it for me.
I have read the Koran, and discussed Islam quite extensively with a friend.
Islam holds that Jesus is a Special Prophet, special because he will be the Judge of the quick and the dead.
I won’t ask about your religion, because I don’t care what you profess to believe, unless its pure evil and you act on it.
I think the order is, first, disciples of Satan, then the lukewarm folks, then Believers. Or maybe in the reverse direction.
Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem……….the apple of Gods eye.
Jerusalem will only be peaceful when Jesus returns. So I’ve long felt to pray for it’s peace is to pray for Christ’s return.
Supposedly, according to some, the coming of God’s Kingdom on Earth will happen when Iran gets things going by nuking Israel
jerusalem is a shithole and only a tribal jewish god could care about it
I don’t mind desolate places, but that whole country is just ugly. Not my holy land.
Have you seen before and after pictures of Israel? What it looked like before the Jews came back in force compared to what it looks like now?
You have a holy land?
It was always buttugly, now it’s grotesque.
Of course I have a holy land.
Well, what is it? How does it look?
Jesus said something to the effect that his coming replaced the old laws. So, perhaps he wiped out the apocalypse, too.
Jesus was the fulfilment of the law – the law of the sacrificial system of atonement for sin. His blood is the atonement, if you accept it as such. Hence He is called the Lamb Of God.
“I will do this because Abraham listened to me and obeyed all my requirements, commands, decrees, and instructions.” 6 So Isaac stayed in Gerar.”
Abraham had God’s law. Moses added rituals, sacrifices and a priesthood. Jesus nailed all that Moses added to the cross. The Commandments, Statutes and Judgements remain.
The best translations I find say Jesus claimed to be here to fulfill the law, to complete it, to make understanding of the law perfect.
I read Jesus teachings as a mandate to apply the God’s law with love and compassion.
I thought you did a good job of laying facts out, and leaving
people to scratch their head, and do some analysis.
If someone doesn’t like to get down votes, – – –
Its a topic to stay away from.
All the downvotes are from butthurt retards with no counter argument. Happens on all the religious posts when people can’t argue their beliefs but are triggered. All they can do to rage on the downvote button.
An excellent (if short) non-argument and rage Ms S.
Look in the mirror when polite people choose not to debate you and you know what you’ll see? A fucking retard. The shit ain’t hard to understand if you’re not an ignorant closeminded twat.
…SOMEbody didn’t like mommy and daddy forcing her to go to Sunday school when she was a kid…
I sure didn’t. The people at Sunday School wouldn’t answer my questions.
This was also a problem in general, public school teachers didn’t answer my questions either. And my parents were’nt eager to give me rational explanations either…
I got it that Faith wasn’t rational, but I could never understand why I should have Faith in their dogma.
You have only ad hominem labels.
They will become valuable in the future, hold on to them!
“All the downvotes are from butthurt retards with no counter argument.
Seems you were rebutted thoroughly retard.
Here is a good site to investigate, life is short but eternity is, well, eternity………….
If I couldn’t handle Down Votes I would have left this joint years ago.
Leaving people to scratch their head (think) is almost always my prime motivating factor.
Sometimes a factor is to fling shit.
Sometimes I like to leave them scratching their balls.
I wrote a “Good Christian” Cousin an Email once, Explaining a
concept along the line of a “Revelation” Boardgame.
You put 50 or 60 people in a small, closed room.
They get to choose things like if they take the Mark of the Beast,
or try to hold out as one of the 144,000, or spin the wheel to see
if they die from hunger, disease, war, Natural Disaster, or
Un-Nice People. I guess you were a winner if you died a martyr,
or were one of the 2 or 3 people who survive to the end.
(OR> in one game variation, the players get to choose who dies
from each calamity) – – – ???
(I guess a failure in my game concept was that I didn’t
include a “Rapture Card”, like a “Get Out Of Jail Free Card”.)
(Similar to getting Down-Votes, my Cousin didn’t
appreciate Hearing From Me.)
“(Similar to getting Down-Votes, my Cousin didn’t
appreciate Hearing From Me.)”
That’s understandable.
Mission accomplished. Scratched head then balls. Washed hands. Now back to work
How do you know if you’re getting down votes?
Interesting and thought-provoking. I recently ordered the fifth edition of the New Oxford Annotated Bible with the Apocrypha. Looking forward to the footnotes and commentaries. I have only read parts of Revelations and would not presume to comment one way or another. Perhaps some would profit from this particular Bible; I certainly hope to.
That’s a great Bible.
Have you ever looked into a Bible software program? Most of them come with a ton of Bible versions … in addition to ALL the tools to turn you into a brilliant Bible scholar. Like, me. Ha!
Seriously, I had an early version of Logos. I’ll describe in one word: indispensable!
Here are a couple of links to help you get started in evaluating the top sellers, …. if you are so inclined.
.
https://www.learnreligions.com/top-bible-software-programs-700240
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https://churchtechtoday.com/2019/03/13/5-best-bible-study-programs-on-the-market-today-2/
Thank you for the link; I will check it out. I used the first edition my freshman year at Sewanee and still have it.
The Blue Letter Bible is a free app as well. You can download a ton of other versions as well as commentaries.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/
I use an e-bible called “e-sword”
https://e-sword.net/
Lots of great features.
I’m wondering what was the point of the article? I read most of the comments and I noticed no one mentioned how to get saved out of it. It should be frightening to everyone who read it. It is not a fairy tale it is very literal. Did anyone notice the church (people who have accepted Jesus as Savior) who are Christians (Christ followers) are not mentioned after Revelation 3:22. Why? First the Tribulation is judgment on the world for rejecting Jesus Christ who is God in the flesh who became a man to die for the sin of mankind. Yes, your a sinner, so am I. If you ever stole anything your a thief, if you ever lied, your a liar, etc. Adam and Eve were the first sinners by disobedience and from then on all man became sinners through them. Jesus is the second Adam only perfect because he is God, he took the place in our behalf to die for us. Salvation is a free gift through Jesus Christ our Lord. The Paul Apostle said, “For I delivered unto your first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that He was buried and that he rose again the third day.” 1 Corinthians 15:3-4. The apostle John told us, “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:16-21. That is why you were born to choose where you will live eternally. Heaven or Hell it is your choice. But you cannot say no one loved you. God does.
We talk much here about the Great Reset … from the human perspective. God also has a “reset” and it’s chronicled in Revelation. Also, I, and others, were curious about how many will die in this reset.
Now, I mentioned all this in the first few paragraphs. Either you did not read the article at all or, you can not read for comprehension. (Are you related to “brian”?)
The ONLY reason I’m responding to you is because the comment count has a reasonable chance of hitting 200. God told me in a dream that the Great Tribulation will start 40 days after this article hits 200 comments.
Thank you for your (too) lengthy exhortation to get saved. That has never been relayed here before today.
This is amazing because God told me in a dream that the Rapture will occur between 275 and 300 comments.
In the 260s now!
I am posting 275 now, so expect to be swept up into the sky with the Lord any second!
Ha!
Shoot, I just planted five rows of veggies…I coulda been packing!
A day in the garden is always better than a day arguing religion.
“A day in the garden” is what started all the arguing about religion…….
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <——======
“The ONLY reason I’m responding to you is because the comment count has a reasonable chance of hitting 200. God told me in a dream that the Great Tribulation will start 40 days after this article hits 200 comments.”
How did you know it was God speaking to you?
So.
How can I get a date with this Babylon chick? Does the Book of Revelation list her phone number? If I’m gonna get tortured for failure to be a Godly man, I’d like to at least taste the fruits…..know what I’m sayin’?
I’m guessin’ she lives in Vegas?
Just kiddin’ Stucky. Glad to see you still writing. As a recovering Christian, I always enjoy trying to take a new look at the scriptures that gave me all my guilt…..
Really and truly, and no shit whatsoever, the Book of Revelation sounds like somebody’s bad acid trip. Maybe a serious nightmare.
I prefer to think of the hereafter as some kind of return to source….lessons learned and all that…..and maybe we get to roll the dice and come back for another round…..or if we got it mostly right we get to move on to some other thing.
We humans do a good enough job of torturing people and reducing the world to rubble already without needing any help from God. We create hell, right here on earth…Satan’s got nothin’ on us.
“How can I get a date with this Babylon chick?”
My guess Edie is that she will be working the streets in your city after the day of judgement.
Just be patient…
Jesus is the one speaking to the churches in the first 2 chapters of Revelation.
So said John of Patmos, or somebody.
According to an excellent essay I read online (but stupidly did not save), it was Cerinthus — a late 1st century heretic that forged Revelation in the name of John. Cerinthus was a jew who was vehemently anti-Paul and wrote it to counter Paul’s missionary work. That is why the 7 cities referenced are all in Asia Minor; that’s where the core of early christianity was centered b/c of Paul’s missions.
The author of the essay provided convincing (to me anyway) evidence — I have tried on a couple of occaisions to track down the approx. 13-page pdf I read (so as to share here), but I have so far been unsuccessful.
This is why I don’t put any faith into Revelation; neither did the early compilers of the bible, as someone here pointed out earlier. They knew it was suspect; the writing (esp. use of Koine Greek) did not match the Gospel of John or the letters of John, and the whole temperament is off. I mean, the Gospel of John is my favorite book of the bible — and the whole tenor of Rev. is diametrically opposed to the message of John’s gospel.
Here is an article for ya that says the same thing. Excepts ….
“Early Christians realized the Apostle John did not write anything. ….. Separate groups, over a thousand miles and a hundred years apart, with different theological agendas, came to similar conclusions: Cerinthus wrote Revelation. There are hardly any more obvious smoking guns in the web of lies and mischaracterizations the early church fathers created than the Cerinthus-Revelation link. In my opinion, Cerinthus must have written parts of Revelation between 4:1 and 22:7, which seem to be the original components of the book.”
.
Thank Stucky, this was a good read. While it is not the pdf I referenced, it is good nevertheless — and actually led to some other good reads. Here are a few:
This last link is most relevant to the topic of the authorship/authenticity of Revelation (the other two are more general in terms of authenticity of christianity) — it is from a comment in the article of the link that you provided me in your reply. Basically it is saying that Revelation is just a rehashing of the visions of the Sybil of Cumae from ~ 500 BC, and was a very revered text of the Romans.
Thanks again for that link — it has opened new rabbit holes…
Well, self-anointed Stucky:
First, that was a cowardly copout to Ms. Shepard’s comments.
Second, you state this at the end of your verbose treatise.
—- What if everything you thought you knew about Revelation might be in error? Would you at least pursue truth more diligently? I hope so. You can handle the truth!
Pursue truth? You imply that Revelation is lie. I won’t imply, I will state that you are a fraud.
Revelation 22:19 “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
King James Version (KJV)
Revelation is “right, you’re wrong.
Deal with it.”
God stated what he would do…
Can YOU handle the truth?
See ya, smart guy.
Congrats! Almost 300 comments and you win the prize for “Most Dumbass Commenter.”
I don’t even come close to saying Revelation is a lie. The “what if” section you referenced in your retarded comment challenges folks to consider if their INTERPRETATION of Revelation is in error.
You’re clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed. I will pray for you that God increases your wisdom. They say nothing is impossible for God. But, making you smarter will give God his greatest challenge ever.
I’m certainly not going to take away from the words of the prophecy of John of Patmos, but I continue to doubt that he was in fact a Prophet of God.
You are certainly free to believe he was.
“Technically, or literally, Jesus doesn’t support ANY of the New Testament…”
You post out of ignorance on every topic?
Are you claiming to have a hotline to Jesus?
Fuck off, asshole. Go back to the Ants thread and try to get your Down Votes to 300.
I guess that means you think my implication that saying Jesus didn’t support the words he said, as reported by his disciples, is really stupid, is somehow wrong?
I have down votes? Really?
“Technically, or literally, Jesus doesn’t support ANY of the New Testament since, you know, it wasn’t wasn’t even written until decades after he died.”
Is this, you know, Sophistry or something?
Are you claiming Jesus didn’t support the things he reportedly said?
No, probably not.
What you’re saying is that there is nothing real about the reports of Jesus teachings that remain to us. It was all made up thirty years after his untimely death.
You really think it unlikely that Jesus told people to love God, and to love their neighbors as themselves?
I find it almost a certainty.
Well like, except Mt 24 for one example.
The author of the Gospel of Mathew is heavily disputed and has been attributed to the Q source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_source
Oh, I’ll take wikipedia’s word for it. Thank you.
Let’s ask Zuck his opinion.
I’ll take wiki over the group of folks that selected the books of the Bible that matched their own narrative. Wiki is open source. The Bible was defined by a relative small group that selected only those books that matched what they were teaching. How quaint.
“Wiki is open source”
Except entirely controlled by, “by a relative small group that selected only those [facts] that matched [their narrative].”
how quaint.
I used to be an angry agnostic too. I was finally led out of it by unexplainable forces. Everlasting man by GK Chesterton is a great read. It’s what contributed to CS Lewis’ conversion.
I am convinced the “force” is Jesus.
Yes, well the Holy Spirit. The Christian story in unbelievable and could only survive because there is is something extraordinary at work and remarkably, that is told to us in the Bible. The story is true. It’s up to you to deal with that fact.
“The Christian story in unbelievable”
We agree on something!
Good places to start if you’re looking for Faith, thanks.
Of course, many are looking to “prove” that Faith is scientifically impossible and can’t actually exist, so they will gain nothing by reading Chesterton, or anybody else.
Now that’s funny, I don’t care who you are. LOL.
I’m almost getting the feeling that you are a reincarnation of 22 winmag. Why do you always seem to antagonize with every post?
It’s impossible (or at least troublesome) for me to tell who you are replying to.
That seems to happen often.
Obviously, somebody’s getting under your skin…
I bet they have a lot of down votes.
You are correct. Look above my post for the entity with a large number of down votes (almost 12 to 1) and you’ll figure it out!
Do I have any up votes?
Please don’t misconstrue me and think I’m trying to compare myself to Jesus, but, how many down votes did Jesus get back when he was alive?
In the 21st Century, right now, how many down votes is Jesus getting?
Why should it matter?
If I was to happen to win a democratically conducted popularity contest, I’d start to re-examine my beliefs.
Of course Jesus taught of this. Mt.24 and Luke17:22-37 are synonyms for the book of Revelation. And there were too many eyewitness accounts for Jesus not to have been a real person who performed real miracles for His people Israel.
And the purpose of the events of Revelation are so that “all Israel shall be saved”. So states Paul in Rom.11:25-29.
Wasn’t Paul the one that God spoke to to tell him that Jesus had been wrong about a few things?
The most important of those, I think, was that God told Paul he wanted the message he gave to Jesus given to everyone, not just the Lost Sheep of Israel.
From Isaiah:
65:17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 65:18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 65:19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 65:20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. 65:21And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. 65:22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 65:23They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. 65:24And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. 65:25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
66:1Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? 66:2For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. 66:3He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog’s neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine’s blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 66:4I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
66:5Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name’s sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 66:6A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies. 66:7Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 66:8Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 66:9Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 66:10Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: 66:11That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 66:12For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees. 66:13As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 66:14And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. 66:15For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 66:16For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 66:17They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. 66:18For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. 66:19And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 66:20And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 66:21And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 66:22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 66:23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 66:24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
..regret to inform you that Jesus spoke of hell more often than any other topic. Yes, he came with meekness and gentleness to seek and to save the lost…from hell.
Do you know what “hellin potatoes” means?
Eternal punishment is against the law.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?95865-Eternal-Punishment-is-Against-The-Law&highlight=Eternal+punishment
Wow! No shit?
It was the product of one (1) man’s mystic hallucinations while he was living a severely ascetic life.
You can’t spread his writings so far as to call them “Jewish” mysticism.
Would you call the John who is credited with Revelations a Gnostic?
I wouldn’t. Neither would I call Gnostic writings “Jewish”.
I’ve heard taught between 2/3 and 3/4 of the earths population will not survive the judgement of God in the 3 1/2 year Great Tribulation. Then the battle of Armageddon and all the martyred tribulation Saints thrown in. Ouch!
The real kicker is if you survive those then there is the pre millennial reign of Jesus judgement of the sheep and the goats.
Consider this very carefully. Scripturally it appears NO-ONE except true believers in Jesus will enter the 1000 year millennial reign.
If this is not the end times, it is what they will look like.
https://odysee.com/@EJOK:c/WIN_20210321_14_16_48_Pro:3
We are in the last days leading up to the rapture of the true believers.
Personally, I’m for sure within 15 years of it.
please god take them
Do you imagine that Good will do that sort of thing at your behest?
Give Jesus a chance to sort it all out. That’s God’s plan as it’s told.
This should be interesting. I’m in the process of changing my thoughts on what John was trying to tell us. In the mean time I’ve just started an interesting series of podcasts on that very book. Here is a link.
Start with episode 352 if you are interested.
Regarding Revelation chapter 12, I think that was talking about signs in the stars at the birth of Jesus.
https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/podcast/naked-bible-178-why-the-world-didnt-end-on-september-23/
There are some who believe that the astromical signs in the sky on 9/23/2017 were a sign that the 7 year tribulation began on that date. That would put us close to mid-tribulation. I think they may have been a bit off.
Anyway, have fun with this thread. I’ll check back later.
How long before the STMs start piling in on Stephanie and she starts slinging the fling right back?
These are really good podcasts.
No man knows the hour when the rapture will occur………not even Jesus.
I know THE hour. It’s been in your Bible all these years.
Matthew 24:44, Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as you think not, the son of man commeth. – King James Version
When the statement was made it was true. He didnt say no one would ever know. The “watchmen” tells the ten virgins. “go out and meet Him ” so he must know.
Amos 3:7 ” Surely the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the prophets.”
That’s exactly what Jesus said!
Does that mean people who think otherwise aren’t Christians?
You might find this interesting.
How could be any more scary than that?
Stucky, I know you think you have a ‘hot take’ on Revelations. The simple fact is you don’t even have a clue about the book. If you want a better understanding of it, I refer you to Isaac Newton’s quite detailed review of the book. (Yeah, the guy who gave us our classical understanding of gravity.)
Next time you want to write about a topic of which you are completely unqualified, please pick something like video games.
Whatever you say, Reverend. Actually, I have much more than just a “clue about the book”. Started studying it decades ago, and from as many angles as possible.
You say I have no clue based on nothing other than because you don’t agree with my views.
This is such a typical response, and the weakest response possible. I’m surprised you didn’t hurl the “HERETIC!!” invective at me.
You are a Snowflake Christian … you melt at the mere hint of ANYTHING other than your cast-in-concrete unyielding belief system. I kind of pity you. Not really.
I bet the dear reverend reads in the original language, too, not just the translations.
The world is full of dickheads.
Which “original ” language? Greek? Hebrew? Aramaic?
The e-Bible I use translates each word and gives derivations for all three “original” languages, which is often helpful.
Anyone can use them. They are much easier than learning to speak Aramaic or Greek or Hebrew.
“Actually, I have much more than just a “clue about the book”. Started studying it decades ago, and from as many angles as possible.”
In my limited experience, studying the Book of Revelation intensively for many years has very bad effects on the person doing it.
I urge you to give it up!
Have you studied the Gnostic Gospels at all?
Well, Isaac Newton’ interpretation varies greatly from yours, and I’ll take his word over yours.
You’re just the court jester around here, and you bow and scrape to the ‘right people’ and that’s how you’re still here. Please, don’t let me stop the show. The insults were pretty good, but you can do better.
Wow, so much for open inquiry, huh?
I really appreciate Stucky’s attempt to examine with an open mind what a particular piece of scripture or general point about a given religious topic might mean. That’s how I learn best — from examining other’s ideas and thoughts and comapring them to my own. And revising mine accordingly if what I’ve learned makes better sense and/or has more supporting evidence, etc. That used to be what was taught in school, remember?
To live close-mindedly and afraid of inquiry is both limiting and boring. Good luck with that outlook, though.
Better learning yet can be had by listening to the interplay of competing or contrasting ideas.
my competing idea is simply expressed- Do you believe that the person who wrote Revelations was a Prophet of God?
I don’t.
listening to the interplay of competing or contrasting ideas
That’s pretty much what I said…
No, I don’t either. I believe the author was a late 1st century jew that hated Paul’s message to the gentiles; his name was Cerinthus and he was considered a heretic by the early chrisitian church leaders. That’s probably why Revelation wasn’t part of the original canon; it was only added later, most likely (as someone here said above) to be used to control the “flock” through fear — same as it ever was.
I posted higher up earlier how I came to this conclusion: I read a great essay online, but failed to DL it. The link below, that Stucky found (H/T !!) and posted in his reply to me seems similar — I will have to read it and see if it’s the same or not…
Newton’s interpretation of the Bible changed constantly?
Constantly changing beliefs are an indication of confusion.
Thanks for pointing out that theology confused Newton. He’s certainly never been alone in that.
RevTKS..
“You’re just the court jester around here, and you bow and scrape to the ‘right people’ and that’s how you’re still here.”
You’re kidding, right?
‘Temple at the Center of Time: Newton’s Bible Codex Deciphered and the year 2012’ by the late David Flynn.
“I suspect that my theories may all depend upon a force for whih philosophers have searched all of nature for in vain”—Isaac Newton
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—–====
LOL… Thats funny … and I agree with it for a number of reasons.
I think it’s about time to go clean the floor around the toilet-at least by then something will have been accomplished.
Was Sodom and Gomorrah or the Nineveh judgement non literal?
The reason for the 7 year period is it fulfills the 70th week of Daniel prophecy regarding Israel. It is about Israel’s transgressions and restoration not the church. That’s why the church period ends at Revelation chapter 4.
God does not just wipe a everyone out immediately to fulfil prophecy and to give people a chance to repent and believe.
Why shouldn’t God just wipe out all the unbelievers anyways? He’s given us His Son. His word. All the miracles and the resurrection. All the already fulfilled prophecies and over 90 percent of the population still won’t believe. It’s been thousands of years. When is enough enough?
He has no obligation to let those who reject Him into Heaven or the millennial reign of Jesus on earth.
If people choose not to accept His free gift of salvation by Grace through faith in His Son Jesus shame on them not God.
Can you get Him to just wipe out all the democrats and liberals?
Keep praying!
Women won’t have the vote in Christ’s kingdom.
Are you sure?
Will it matter?
Have things gotten better or worse in America since women got the vote?
Is it right to blame them?
No matter, I thought it was the Kingdom of God that Jesus said would come to earth… That makes it God’s Kingdom, right?
I’ve read the constitution for God’s Kingdom, and there is no mention of voting at all, for anyone.
No.
https://godskingdom.org/studies/books/daniels-seventy-weeks/chapter-2-dating-the-seventy-weeks
Eyes Wide Shut,
“Was Sodom and Gomorrah or the Nineveh judgement non literal?”
Who knows? You can take it as an article of faith if you need to.
Jesus often taught with parables. Are parables “literal”?
My USPS mail scan tells me I am getting a letter from G.O.D , P.O. Box 1412, Longmont CO, 80512. I looked up address and some people say to return to sender and make him pay postage. I will most likely shred it as I don’t want to tempt G.O.D and have him send my address to child porn mailing list or give me a heart attack on my next snow shoveling. But people may write him at that address and ask him what the amount smited will be.
“Yet, all proponents of Rapture theology seek support for their position from the book of Revelation!”
Not me. I only find the translation of the church in Paul’s epistles. Thank God Christians are not appointed unto wrath.
Amos 5:18 KJB… “Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord ! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.”
7.2+ billion people dead. Fits with the Georgia Guidestones right nicely.
GCP,
How come I’ve never heard a sermon, in Church, regarding Revelations? I attended church and private faith based school system up until 20 years old. No one covered the book of Revelations. Why?
Because you didn’t have a church … well, actually, a PREACHER … who felt comfortable with the topic? You’d be surprised how many preachers feel uncomfortable with all the symbolism, stories that stretch credulity, and yeah,the nasty stuff also. Probably no more complicated or sinister that that.
OTOH, I attended a church in Fort Wayne where sermons on prophecy were a regular event. And we loved it.
Stucky is right on 🙂
My mother and father are hard core church goers. I called him just today and told him I would go to church with them the next time their church had a sermon on the book of Revelations. He said, their church has to find a traveling preacher every other week. He said he would be sure to find a preacher asap who will do just that. He really wants me to go to church with them. I said I will not go if I have to wear a mask. He said no one has to wear a mask at their church. They live and go to church in MD.
A strong and heartfelt suggestion… ignore Revelation and focus on Romans 1-8.
SmallerGovNow this morning triggered my memory of my pastor of 40 years ago …. when I was a lot like you in terms of beliefs.
He taught at Fort Wayne Bible College for 50 some years and was a nationally noted expert in Hebrew and Greek. Yet, humble enough to pastor a small church in Fort Wayne — actually, he was far more of a teacher than a pastor. And a truly brilliant one at that.
Anyway, he wrote a book on Romans. If you’re looking to add to your “Romans” library, you probably can’t go wrong with it. I say “probably: because I haven’t read it, but I’ve read many of his other writings — some not accessible to the general public — and he has never disappointed.
You might benefit from reading some things at Faithalone.org and simplybelief.com
I just gave him two links and then read your comment, one of them is simply belief 🙂
Grew up in Fort Wayne. Southeast side. Went to Paul Harding HS… Chip
Huh! Small world!
Our first apartment (after getting married) was in the huge old McMillan Mansion right across the street from Foster Park golf course.
Our first house was also in the Foster Park area … just off Old Mill Road.
This was between 1981 – 1985. Maybe we passed each other on the road sometime?
We attended Harvester Ave Bible Church, just a few blocks from the big International Harvester factory. Dr. Wes Gerig was the pastor.
I graduated HS in 1978. Left for West Lafayette and Purdue University where I graduated in 1982 with BS in Engineering. In the Army after that where I served as an engineer officer for 25 years all over the planet. Now Texas is home and it’s the hill I’ll die on. I remember Foster Park. My Dad was a big golfer in the day. We played McMillan Park when I was young. Swam there competitively in the summers. In the winters it was Southeast YMCA and Club Olympia where I did my Junior and Senior years. The coach was a Hungarian who had several gold medal winners in the Olympics. But I digress. Yup, small world Stuck. Best of luck to ya… Chip
Constantine had his tame Bishops pick and choose to create the Bible, so I feel quite comfortable picking and choosing for myself.
The Old Testament Prophets relayed messages sent to a barbaric tribe, so, not being part of a barbaric tribe, I tend to focus more on trying to understand the teachings of Jesus.
What’s the earliest known version of Revelation?
If you try hard to follow the teachings of Jesus, why even bother to worry about the end times?
As I said earlier, my personal end time is almost certain to be within 15 years, though it’s true that no man knows the date.
Revelation is bunk — read the comment from Mark in this link that Stucky provided to me in reply to my earlier post:
try hard to follow the teachings of Jesus
To me, that’s what it’s all about given all the years (2000) and uncertainty that cannot be reconciled. Even if Jesus is made up, is the teaching still not something to practice? Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself … it’s not easy (the 2nd part), but it’s the right way forward.
Ask those where you attended church at. Personally I’ve heard many, unfortunately many that were off the wall, hal lindsey style.
Revelation, btw, is not a chronological series of events.
A good rounded series on Revelation I’ve listened to is Bruce Gore out of Seattle. A historian and teaches biblical history much like hieser.
Most have little understanding of the book, especially how it connects with Daniel. Most also do not realize that the body of Christ is not found in the book (or the other Hebrew epistles for that matter).
Mornin’ GCP….
“Most have little understanding of the book, especially how it connects with Daniel.”
I’ve heard it said that Revelation is like the roof of the Biblical house, but without a firm foundation of understanding Genesis, the structure won’t hold up to a storm.
66 books gathered from about 40 different ‘hands’, but authored by One….the I AM that I AM……the Alpha and the Omega…..the Comforter.
The entire world plots against Him…to no avail. The end of the Age of Grace nears, without question in my mind.
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—–====
+1,000
You would definitely enjoy
Anything that connects with Daniel is bound to be unintelligible.
I thought the body of Christ ascended unto heaven? You know, the Son part of the Trilogy?
My understanding of that is not good…
The body does ascend, you’ve got that right… 😊
Go to a Baptist Church.
I lived in a small town in east Tx. The richest guy in town? The Baptist preacher. He took his bit off the top of the collection plate, to be sure. Drove a nice Cadillac and lived in the biggest house in town. And preached tithing for the good of your soul.
Hypocrites run deep in the Baptist organization.
The subject was denominations that teach the Rapture.
The comment is any damn thing I feel like.
Blow me.
Hypocrites are in any and all organizations. Churches are not immune to that. Some are great, Baptist, some are horrid. Be a Berean.
There is much “shearing of the flock” in churches.
For someone who doesn’t believe, and thinks it’s all a faery tale, pastoring is a lucrative grift.
Me? I believe.
Which small town, if I might ask?
Many denominations do not believe in the Rapture interpretation.
Many don’t believe in denominations…I suspect God is one of them.
Thanks. Great point!
A liberal …non bible believing church, that’s why.
Check out Brave Church in Englewood, Colorado online. We’re going over Revelation now. Listen to the sermons on the Alpha/Omega series. They’re fantastic. Brave is a great name for this church.
Wrong church
Because you need a comprehensive understanding of the whole Bible to interpret it [ correctly ] the symbology, etymology, and earlier revelation; most church goers lack this – trying to impart this in a sermon is foolishness.
The only thing I’ve heard anyone try to use to connect Revelation to the Bible is Daniel.
I don’t think anybody has ever understood Daniel, so I guess we are all doomed to not understand Revelation.
I’m cool with that.
All sorts of Evangelicals teach from Revelation. They tend to like the Old Testament Prophets too.
if it winds your clock, go for it.
“All” … not hardly. A tall strawman there.
All sorts?
You might like this
Thanks Stucky for breaking down the book of Revelation, the images are pretty vivid. But as some have said, the Bible is not for me because (fill in the blank).
But to me, the Bible is for those who receive it and for them, it’s not about the deaths, but about God’s promise to create a new heaven and new earth. The details offered are there to show how every corrupted and rebellious aspect of the creation we now live in, will be completely purged and eliminated, prior to the beginning of His eternal kingdom of which we as believers will live in in His presence.
To look at what is promised to happen at some future time and not be a part of that future kingdom would be the same as reading Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce and a host of other prophetic writings; lots of scary paintings and YouTube videos, but not much hope.
So my advice in reading the book of Revelation is to not look so much at the dragons, beasts, scorpions and what not, but to have your eyes and heart firmly focused on the Creator of the universe and the One who has promised to be with you, even to the end of days.
Posted by Not Sure
So truer words were never spoken…..Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.
Dang, Jethro…I newed you wuz a expurt in sighpherin rithmaticks n such, but I need to finds me a sharper pensil fer deelin’ with yer reeligiss extralogical enterpertations.
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—–====
P.S. I didn't read the links……yet, anyway.
Ah iz smarter den yer avurige bear in mah own eyes, Tonto.
Stuck, didn’t admin have years ago all of your postings on religion on the right hand side of TPB page? You should send the links to RevTKS and show him you didn’t just fall off the cabbage truck on the way into town.
No, sir. The only poster I recall having stuff on the right hand side was Muck About.
Thank you kindly for the suggestion, but I feel no need to prove myself to da Reverend. I don’t give a rat’s ass what he thinks about me. Really.
You’re correct, so solly, my bad. Anyway your postings inspire thought which I look forward to.
Is there to be no end to this bad imitation of dialects?
I miss the point entirely.
It wasn’t my opinion I was pointing you to, it was Isaac Newton’s, but I guess you’re smarter than him too? You have all the ‘forum’ posturing down, and you know whose ass to kiss, so you’re fine. Carry on Jester.
There was a long period of my life when theology confused me at least as much as it did Newton, but I was smart enough not to write about having figured it out, over and over.
When it comes to math, I never had anywhere near the ability of Newton. Neither have I ever made an original breakthrough in the field of mechanics or physics.
Whats the opposite of “posturing down”? Bowing up?
I read his post, and he’s not even close. I can only surmise that this post would incorporate his most recent and well thought out beliefs. Knowing that, his past works would not be helpful.
I also referred him to Isaac Newton’s excellent discourse on Revelation, but he preferred to throw a fit, but I have to admit to baiting him in that regard. The court jester did not disappoint.
I Just get tired of him proclaiming some ‘knowledge’ or ‘wisdom’ about a topic in which he is clearly out of his depth. Unfortunately, based on the comments, several folks here think he has some credibility in this area.
But, now those who want to find out more about the subject, they now know what they can search.
“Tonto, go to town..”…”Tonto no go to town, kemosabe…”…
Why are you implying that stupid people come from the South or the Appalachians? Or both.
Oh wait, sorry, it was Tonto who spoke like a cracker.
I missed that episode I guess.
Jesus can and will save sinners.
Jesus will save those sinners who trust ONLY in His death, His burial, and His Resurrection from the dead for the forgiveness of all of their sins.
Obviously, I like the other version better. Love God and love your neighbors, and you pass.
I thought, in the end times, that Jesus will be judging everyone to see who tried, or didn’t try, to follow God’s laws, the most important of which, according to Jesus, is to love God and love your neighbor.
If everybody passes anyway, what’s the point of judging?
Well done Stucky.
After I stopped sweating, two thoughts remained:
1. How much freeze dried food will I need?
2. My first though at the end of Rev16-Bowl7, the 100# hailstones falling on people, was that Monty Python would LOVE that.
The rule of thumb is three times your body weight in freeze dried food, and double your weight in .22 ammo.
https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-12-17-globalists-accelerating-depopulation-eugenics-programs-in-response-to-populist-uprisings.html
Speaking of demographics, it looks like the CCP fucked up badly, again.
The “Two Child Policy”, mandated after the “One Child Policy” created huge problems, will be unable to solve them, and China’s population is destined to fall by a very large amount.
That will be a big plus for the world ecology, since China is one of the worlds worst polluters.
I believe.
There are a whole lot of evil peeps that need justice.
Sure do hope and pray that God forgives my sins.
Only ask
You only have to ask.
As I recall, Jesus said “Go, and sin no more.”
I guess that means you have to keep on asking forgiveness.
Do the Catholics still go with the one time asking for absolution just before you die as being adequate?
Even if that works, you have to be careful to not die unexpectedly…
OTofGA: — God WILL forgive ALL of your sins if you will trust in the death, the burial, and the Resurrection from the dead of the Lord Jesus Christ ALONE for the total forgiveness of ALL of your sins.
Who said that?
Is God OK with us placing Jesus above Him?
“Many are chosen, but few are called.”
Might want to go back and correct this. “Many are called but few are chosen.”
Other than that, I’ll wait for the Rosetta Stone that translates all the symbolism into real details. The problem with symbolism is that you see one thing, and I see something else.
Oops! Proof read it several times, and still missed it. Thanks for the correction.
You seeing one thing and me another extends further than just symbolism/prophecy. Such a thing is baked in the religious cake. Even down to the granularity of words. For example, just try telling someone the Scriptures do not prophesy that Jesus would be born of a “virgin”, but that the word used means “young girl” … and watch heads explode. “YOU HERETIC!!!”
For example, just try telling someone the Scriptures do not prophesy that Jesus would be born of a “virgin”, but that the word used means “young girl” … and watch heads explode. “YOU HERETIC!!!”
What troubles me about you stuck is your attempted “gotcha” moments like this.
Do you really think the Prophet that wrote that was intent to mean just a young girl. That would be no prophecy at all. Lots of young girls gave birth all the time.
Since Joseph was not the biological father are you saying He was not conceived by the Holy Spirit but an illegitimate bastard?
Absolutely.
Grab a concordance, get a Strong’s Dictionary, and absolutely get an Interlinear Bible …. and dig deep.
(For those who do not know — an Interlinear Bible is keyed to the Greek and Hebrew text using Strong’s Concordance. You get to “read” Greek and Hebrew without knowing the language. It is THE indispensable tool for doing word studies.)
Not one in twenty Christians make such an effort. Much easier to just go with the flow — believe what you’re told by others.
But, doing the above will show without any shadow of a doubt that the original Hebrew meaning is “young girl”.
And I’ll tell you what, your pastor knows this. They all know it. That’s how indisputable it is. It’s what I was taught, and I went to a pretty conservative seminary, Grand Rapids Baptist Seminary.
Then, keep on digging. You’ll soon discover that it was very many years later that it was the Septuagint (Greek translation) which first rendered the translation as “virgin”. Dig even deeper, and you’ll find the shenanigans of why they translated it that way.
.
But, don’t dig too deep! You might wind up like me.
Luke 1:34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I [g]do not know a man?”
What you imply is false. Mary was indeed a young girl at the time she was betrothed to be married to Joseph. Yu fail to consider that Mary had not KNOWN a man, ie intimately. You know, the sex thing.
It was a conflict with Joseph as well, which is why the account is related this way. Joseph had legal right to put her away, ie shameful abandonment to the betrothal because she was to be a virgin as was the custom. The angelic visitation is what changed Josephs mind.
Matt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being [f]a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is [g]conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
So yes she was a young girl, as was custom in the day. Yes she was a virgin, as stated by Mary herself and an angel. Yes Joseph was conflicted about it as it could be assumed she’d been with another man outside the betrothal agreement.
So instead of focusing on a single word and building a ‘controversy over it, the body of text needs to be considered. Words can be mis-interpreted but when taken in context with the body of scriptures it becomes clear the meaning of the word(s).
Nice troll attempt tho.
Thank you that was going to be my next point.
Take ALL scripture in it’s full context.
Either Joseph and Mary or the writer are liars and Mary was not a virgin making Jesus or God’s Son an illegitimate bastard child or…
“gotcha” Stuckey who just seems to want to contend with God and be a stumbling block to others while doing the devil’s handiwork.
There is nothing wrong with contending with God. Jacob wrestled with God … and almost beat him! Moses, Abraham, Job, Hezekiah, and others argued with God. God didn’t mind. Why should you? I suspect it is because you value “blind faith” over all else.
===========
My questions about things spiritual have helped more people than your copy and paste Scripture verses ever have. See “Monger” above as just one example (of many over the years).
Questioning or challenging conventional wisdom actually strengthens the faith of those who are secure in their beliefs. Those who are weak and insecure in their beliefs — those like yourself and your BFF brian— are offended by it.
===========
Ahhhh, Stucky and the devil! That didn’t take long. How many hours of thought did it take you to come up with that?
I have dealt with people like you my entire life, as have many of us. It started in grade school, “Just shut up and learn your Catechism the way we teach it!” and up to the present moment, “You are a tool of the devil for asking that!!”
You don’t hate me. You FEAR me. You fear difficult questions. You fear answers that challenge your faith. You fear thinking outside the box of your own prejudices. You fear the destruction of your nicely packaged comfortable answers. Your brand of faith can’t withstand anyone other than ones just like yourself. My guess is because ultimately your faith is built on sand.
Your knee-jerk response is to call people like me a tool of the devil. It’s an unusual way of showing that the spirit of God lives within you. One of these days you might realize that few are judged into the kingdom. Far more get loved into it.
One thing is certain you never seem to disappoint in making outrageous claims and making me laugh.
Lets start with this…
I fully agree. Its the beginning of learning. But there is a difference between an honest quest for understanding and being argumentive for the sake of arguing.
Really… Thats quite the claim. Did you go back and research how many EWS has affected?? Where are the numbers for comparison of those you’ve affected and EWS?? You must be a gypsy and have crystal balls to be able to see everything EWS has done in his life.
Then this beauty… Your questions have more impact than does scripture??? Wowsers.
sigh… you seem to know what offends people, lol, even if it doesn’t. Tossing disparaging comments based on massive assumptions, one could reasonably assume its you who is fearful. I’ve dealt with people like you my whole life. The big guy in the room who likes to intimidate others with BS and bluster.
My wife asked why I was laughing so hard.
This from the guy who goes on rants against people. who calls certain women here the “C” word, who calls anyone who upsets the great flinger, a diseased donkey dick. Very loving… and not an iota of hypocrisy either.
Its a great spring day and time to head outside to get some work done. So you have at’r and I’ll check back in later to see your searing… I mean loving reply to my fearful religious soul.
I was talking about my original articles concerning religious topics. You know that. But, again, you change the argument midstream.
There is nothing to compare to. EWS has never written an original article. Neither have you. You both are The Critic who excels in finding fault in the work of others … but don’t have the the stamina, intellect, or balls to enter the fray with your own works.
======================== =
— I don’t post endless Bible verses telling people to get saved.
— I don’t post endless comments about the love of God.
— I don’t claim to be a godly person.
— Hell, I don’t even claim to be a Christian.
But, YOU do all these things. And that’s the reason you are a hypocrite, and I am not.
I know I am a heathen vile fucktard destined for Hades. Telling someone to go suck a Diseased Donkey Dick is the least of my problems. I NEED PRAYER! But you, Oh Christian saint, even fail in your duty to do that. My blood is on your hands.
This just gets funnier… you might make the count yet, what are you trying to reach??
You made a blanket statement about your posts affecting more than EWS’s. Yet its YOU who has failed to back up ANY of your statements. Calling out your BS is forbodeen??
As for written material. Is there a time limit on how long a person is here and required to write an essay/article?? I wasn’t aware of that requirement.
You do not like being criticized?? When you submit a written article in a public forum it is open to criticism by all those who read it. Maybe if you are to sensitive to criticism this forum may not be suitable to you or perhaps you might want to consider topics more suited to you, like My rainbow Pony.
What about all those other people who regular this site?? Probably thousands. Are THEY TOO without “stamina, intellect, or balls to enter the fray with your own works.” Painted a lot of people with a single brush… again.
Really… whats the ratio of my biblical posts to just regular commenting??? You still make claims for which you have nothing to back it up with. BS and BLUSTER.
I agree… you do need prayer. But I’m wondering just how you know what and whom I pray for??? DOH!!! I forgot, you’re a gypsy… I apologize.
Sorry my friend. Your blood is on your own hands. Nice try, but another fail.
I don’t jump to the commands of a 2-bit newbie hustler like yourself who demands proof. Do your own work. Use the TBP search button and search on Stucky+God and you’ll find many articles .. 100, 200,and even 300+ comments. You’ll find I speak truth. At least 1 beloved poster, EC (r.i.p.), found his way here because of my religious articles. They helped him he said. Score 1-0 already in favor of me.
You spent too many words, an empty cymbal, defending your role as a critic who won’t, or can’t, write original articles. If all were like you this place would be Drudge 2.0. I singled you out and not others because YOU are The Critic, a know it all, the Accuser, the Destroyer of all that is good and gracious (me). So, write an article Lazy Boi … show us what you got other than your flapping gums.
Ok, my blood is my hands. You are like the no-good Joo Pharisee too ignorant to know the Samaritan lying half dead in the road was his neighbor. Jesus condemned him. And right after God sends me to hell … He’s gonna send YOU to hell for being a dick for not praying for my soul.
Like I said… all bluster and BS. You make claims you can’t back up. You been eat’n your own BS so long now you think there is no other flavor. I bet you win all the arguments in your head too… lol
Awe… thx… But good and gracious!?!? And speaks the truth?!?!? Thats funny…
Not that thats even remotely biblical but just in case your super enlightened mind revealed that possibility I prayed for you. Now I’m off the hook and you are on your own. When I do my morning read and pray, I’ll perhaps toss another prayer for you to really seal the deal.
Anyrate… gotta go find a wayside traveler in the ditch so I can go kick sand at them.
Well, it’s about time you did the right thing! THANK YOU.
The prayers of a righteous man availeth much. I’ll probably have a super duper day tomorrow. Unless you prayed that the Lord will smite me … and I don’t think you’d do that.
E.C. was one that welcomed me around this spot….
Sicario
Hi, never posted before and the subject and replies are very interesting to me. Just wish to state my amusement with “Jacob wrestled with God … and almost beat him!”
I agree with you that God allowed it and probably didn’t mind knowing man’s fallen state and loving us and all that stuff but I am amused with the “almost beat him” since that would be impossible to affinity and beyond! 😛
Regards,
JamesD
100% correct. I often try to inject a bit of humor in my writing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t .
OTOH, Jacob wrestled with God “till daybreak” and God saw that “he could not overpower him”. Ol’ Jacob put up a helluva fight, I’d say.
Thanks for the reply sir – God was just amusing Jacob but was probably impressed with his determination and perseverance IMHO. 🙂
Cheers!
“One of these days you might realize that few are judged into the kingdom. Far more get loved into it.”
I like this a lot.
I see. When you are losing an argument, then change the argument! Now you want to not focus “on a single word” when that was the original debate? Who is the troll?
You blather on about superfluous verses which have nothing to do with the original argument. The original argument is this; — does the word “virgin” in the book of Isiah mean “young girl”?
It’s really important to understand the original meaning of that word because it is the ONLY verse in all of the Bible which supports the idea that Jesus was born of a virgin inseminated by God. It has big implications. No wonder you want to avoid that. Much easier to dance with Frau Superfluous. She, who whispers in your ear how smart you are above all others.
Yet ….
You did not consult a concordance.
You did not consult the Strong’s dictionary.
You did not consult an Interlinear Bible.
You prefer to remain ignorant. People like you fear truth. The only truth you need is is the truth of your own brain … and to hell with scholarly tools available because “screw it, I , the mighty brian don’t need no stinkin smarty pants experts!”
The argument was the one you are trying to obfuscate. You pulled one word out of the OT and then attempted to throw shade on the concept of the virgin birth using that one word. You must have missed that class where the body of text determines the translation(s).
Now you claim the
These verses have everything to DO with the claims and waving them off as ‘superfluous’ only shows your contempt for the scriptures. You seem to enjoy being literal when it suits you just to cause an argument and rarely for honest debate or answers. Thats what trolls do.
brian says: You seem to enjoy being literal when it suits you just to cause an argument and rarely for honest debate or answers. Thats what trolls do.
I tend to agree….but if ole Stucky is just a troll, he’s one of the best.
The following is part of the same article I posted just above to Stucky. The coinky dink here is that I was following Horn back when he discussed this, and around that time, late one night, I stumbled across a british documentary that had film coverage of exactly what Horn described. The video was by enigmatv, if memory serves correctly, and I have never been able to find that particular footage again …..?!?
“More than a decade ago, researchers William Henry[xiii] and Michael Salla[xiv] implied that there was an esoteric agenda behind the war in Iraq. While we remain undecided regarding occult conspiracies, it is fact that important ancient magical items have never been returned. When the bombs started falling, priceless ancient artifacts were some of the first items to disappear. For example, a news article revealed that the bronze panels from Balawat Gates near the city of Nimrud “stolen in April from the Mosul Museum soon after the fall of Baghdad, are still missing.”[xv] In 2003, Salla wrote that an interdimensional portal “may lie buried in the desert of Southern Iraq which presumably will play a role in the ‘prophesied return of the gods.’”[xvi] In fact, when I was on the popular radio show Coast to Coast AM with George Noory during the Gulf War and questioned why George W. Bush had been so stubbornly resolved to take the US into Iraq/Babylon even though Iraq was not connected to the events of September 11, 2001, something interesting happened. I had made several points, saying some people believed the invasion had to do with creating a strategic placement of US military resources against what the administration saw as a growing threat from Islamic radicals. Then I said others saw it as an effort to seize and maintain control of Iraqi oil reserves; still others believed that 9/11 was itself either a convenient or orchestrated event (false flag) allowing the Bush administration to extend a global domination project. But then, I suggested, some may have hit the real nail on the head when they suggested that biblical sites in Babylon—which had been uncovered during Saddam Hussein’s reconstruction of the ancient city—possessed something the administration went there to capture. After I finished his conversation with Noory and was headed to bed (around 3 a.m.), I suddenly received an email from the “curator” of the National Museum of Iraq (also known as the Iraq Museum, or the Baghdad Museum, which contains many relics from the Babylonian/Mesopotamian civilization), who had been listening to the radio show. This person claimed that my last idea involving the US invading Iraq to capture something Saddam had uncovered was spot on. The emailer then gave me a temporary password to the museum’s digital backdoor so he could see “proof.” The first thing I did was verify the email was actually from @theiraqmuseum.com and also that the hidden back page was an extension of the actual museum’s website. Once I confirmed that, I clicked the link where I was required to sign in using the temporary password. That is when I saw something I could hardly believe: hundreds and hundreds of step-by-step images of the first day of invasion showing US military personnel and the US ambassador at the museum. Somebody had taken second-by-second pictures of a woman with traditional head-covering greeting and then leading a delegation of US soldiers with the US ambassador to a large, padlocked door in the back of the museum in an area where the public is not allowed to go. This door was unlocked, and the armed soldiers and official American envoy followed the woman down a long flight of stairs into a gigantic underground storage room (something like one might see in an Indiana Jones movie, except this was real). Inside were dozens, if not hundreds, of large wooden cases containing superb gold and silver artifacts, which assumedly the world had never seen, invaluable items obviously dug up by Saddam from the sands of ancient Babylon. These included gold and silver masks of kings, sacred jewelry, cuneiform tablets with unknown secrets, steles bearing mysterious inscriptions and images, papyrus, strange ritual-looking objects, headdresses, vessels, swords, shields, and more. Hour after hour, I sat there going through the images one by one.
Then I saw something else. Suddenly, the pictures depicted a change in the observers’ demeanors. The crowd appeared agitated, or maybe excited; I wasn’t quite sure which. This happened as the soldiers began opening several larger-than-coffin-sized crates (actually about three times as large as a full-sized coffin) that were hidden far back in the corners of the concealed room. As the soldiers opened them, they looked inside and gestured for the ambassador. He went and stared inside the boxes, then had them resealed without removing anything (I could not tell what was inside the containers). Immediately, the soldiers began carrying these crates and some other ones behind them up the flight of stairs to a transport helicopter outside. Then they quickly departed the city of Baghdad (part of ancient Babylon) with the containers to parts unknown.
I was flabbergasted. It was true! Whatever else the US military was doing in Iraq/Babylon, the minute they arrived in the plains of Shinar, they had gone straight to a top-secret room beneath the Babylon Museum where Saddam Hussein had hidden objects of national interest recovered from the ancient world, and they had removed these containers in which something the American government wanted—something from ancient Babylon—was found! Whatever was inside those large boxes (it took two strong soldiers on each end to carry them out of that room), it was obviously more important to the US military than the irreplaceable golden masks and jewels of ancient kings and queens they didn’t bother to seize.
Exhausted, I headed to bed with intentions of continuing through the images the following morning. Unfortunately, the next day, I awoke to find my “password” expired and the “curator” never willing to respond again.”
I did a quick little search, and I think this is the link to the Coast to Coast interview (going to listen to it now, if I can)
https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2007-05-20-show/
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—====
“The Septuagint, from the Latin word septuaginta (“seventy”), is a translation of the Hebrew Bible and some related texts into Koine Greek. The title and its Roman numeral acronym LXX refer to the legendary seventy Jewish scholars who completed the translation. It was the Bible of Jesus and the apostles. The New Testament authors show a clear preference for the Septuagint over Masoretic readings.[iii] In the early Christian church, the Septuagint was also preferred because it was translated by Jews before the era of Christ and preserved more Christ-centered readings. It seems that some scribes were attempting to obscure prophetic references to Jesus.It seems that some scribes were attempting to obscure prophetic references to Jesus. For example, Irenaeus pointed out that the Septuagint clearly writes of a virgin that shall conceive (Isaiah 7:14). However, the Hebrew text of the second century as interpreted by Theodotion and Aquila was translated as a “young woman that shall conceive.” This leads many to prefer the LXX and lends force to a Septuagint reading predicting the return of the Nephilim.”
https://www.skywatchtv.com/2021/03/23/part20/
I came across this newly posted entry in the series just minutes after reading down thru this ‘virgin birth’ discussion yesterday, just a coinky dink, I’m sure.
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—–====
Q
Orthodox Jews claim that Matthew 1:23 misquoted Isiah 7:14. They say that word “Alma” means young woman and not a virgin. And the word for virgin is “Bethulah”. Is that true?
A
Sort of. The word “alma” in the Hebrew of Isaiah 7:14 can mean “virgin” or “young woman”. It’s true, the word most commonly used for virgin is “bethulah.” But that doesn’t give us the whole story.
First, the Lord was giving an important sign to Israel (Isaiah 7:13-14). What kind of a sign would it be if a young woman gave birth to a son? That’s an everyday occurrence.
Second, 70 Hebrew scholars translated Isaiah 7:14 into Greek a few hundred years later in the course of developing an official Greek language Old Testament. They chose the Greek word “parthenos”, which can only refer to a person who has never had sexual intercourse, a virgin. The Greek translation was called the Septuagint and was pretty much complete by about 150 BC. (Most New Testament quotes of Old Testament passages are from the Septuagint translation.)
So why didn’t Isaiah use bethulah and avoid the problem altogether? When the Lord gave prophecies with a fulfillment far in the future, he often had His prophets word them so they could be partially fulfilled within their lifetimes. This partial fulfillment served as confirmation of the ultimate one and maintained the prophet’s credibility in accordance with Deut. 18:21-22.
From Isaiah 8 we learn that his own wife bore the son who fulfilled the short term prophecies of Isaiah 7:16-17. The name Immanuel, which means “God with us” was first associated with him (Isaiah 8:10).
The Lord couldn’t call Isaiah’s wife a virgin because she wasn’t one, and besides there would only ever be one virgin birth. But He could use a word that hinted of it, and so he used “alma”. After Isaiah was long gone and they only had the ultimate fulfillment to deal with, the 70 Hebrew Scholars disclosed the clear intent of the passage. The virgin was with child and gave birth to a son who literally was God with us. Matt. 1:23 is correct.
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Q
Orthodox Jews claim that Matthew 1:23 misquoted Isiah 7:14. They say that word “Alma” means young woman and not a virgin. And the word for virgin is “Bethulah”. Is that true?
A
Sort of. The word “alma” in the Hebrew of Isaiah 7:14 can mean “virgin” or “young woman”. It’s true, the word most commonly used for virgin is “bethulah.” But that doesn’t give us the whole story.
First, the Lord was giving an important sign to Israel (Isaiah 7:13-14). What kind of a sign would it be if a young woman gave birth to a son? That’s an everyday occurrence.
Second, 70 Hebrew scholars translated Isaiah 7:14 into Greek a few hundred years later in the course of developing an official Greek language Old Testament. They chose the Greek word “parthenos”, which can only refer to a person who has never had sexual intercourse, a virgin. The Greek translation was called the Septuagint and was pretty much complete by about 150 BC. (Most New Testament quotes of Old Testament passages are from the Septuagint translation.)
So why didn’t Isaiah use bethulah and avoid the problem altogether? When the Lord gave prophecies with a fulfillment far in the future, he often had His prophets word them so they could be partially fulfilled within their lifetimes. This partial fulfillment served as confirmation of the ultimate one and maintained the prophet’s credibility in accordance with Deut. 18:21-22.
From Isaiah 8 we learn that his own wife bore the son who fulfilled the short term prophecies of Isaiah 7:16-17. The name Immanuel, which means “God with us” was first associated with him (Isaiah 8:10).
The Lord couldn’t call Isaiah’s wife a virgin because she wasn’t one, and besides there would only ever be one virgin birth. But He could use a word that hinted of it, and so he used “alma”. After Isaiah was long gone and they only had the ultimate fulfillment to deal with, the 70 Hebrew Scholars disclosed the clear intent of the passage. The virgin was with child and gave birth to a son who literally was God with us. Matt. 1:23 is correct.
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ABOUT GRACE THRU FAITH
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Jack Kelley published over 9,000 Bible Study resources here from 1999, until the Lord called him home in the fall of 2015. His teachings made the Bible clear and easy to understand, and impacted millions of lives. He is the author of all the teachings here, and all materials are available free of charge! His wife Samantha maintains this site as well as their missionary outreaches.
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▼
Q
Orthodox Jews claim that Matthew 1:23 misquoted Isiah 7:14. They say that word “Alma” means young woman and not a virgin. And the word for virgin is “Bethulah”. Is that true?
A
Sort of. The word “alma” in the Hebrew of Isaiah 7:14 can mean “virgin” or “young woman”. It’s true, the word most commonly used for virgin is “bethulah.” But that doesn’t give us the whole story.
First, the Lord was giving an important sign to Israel (Isaiah 7:13-14). What kind of a sign would it be if a young woman gave birth to a son? That’s an everyday occurrence.
Second, 70 Hebrew scholars translated Isaiah 7:14 into Greek a few hundred years later in the course of developing an official Greek language Old Testament. They chose the Greek word “parthenos”, which can only refer to a person who has never had sexual intercourse, a virgin. The Greek translation was called the Septuagint and was pretty much complete by about 150 BC. (Most New Testament quotes of Old Testament passages are from the Septuagint translation.)
So why didn’t Isaiah use bethulah and avoid the problem altogether? When the Lord gave prophecies with a fulfillment far in the future, he often had His prophets word them so they could be partially fulfilled within their lifetimes. This partial fulfillment served as confirmation of the ultimate one and maintained the prophet’s credibility in accordance with Deut. 18:21-22.
From Isaiah 8 we learn that his own wife bore the son who fulfilled the short term prophecies of Isaiah 7:16-17. The name Immanuel, which means “God with us” was first associated with him (Isaiah 8:10).
The Lord couldn’t call Isaiah’s wife a virgin because she wasn’t one, and besides there would only ever be one virgin birth. But He could use a word that hinted of it, and so he used “alma”. After Isaiah was long gone and they only had the ultimate fulfillment to deal with, the 70 Hebrew Scholars disclosed the clear intent of the passage. The virgin was with child and gave birth to a son who literally was God with us. Matt. 1:23 is correct.
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jack-kelley-sm
ABOUT GRACE THRU FAITH
Who we are
How we began
Our beliefs
Jack Kelley published over 9,000 Bible Study resources here from 1999, until the Lord called him home in the fall of 2015. His teachings made the Bible clear and easy to understand, and impacted millions of lives. He is the author of all the teachings here, and all materials are available free of charge! His wife Samantha maintains this site as well as their missionary outreaches.
CONTACT US
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Search 9000+ resources…
Grace thru Faith is a 501(c)3 non-profit. Copyright © 2021. All rights reserved.
▼
▼“alma” in the Hebrew of Isaiah 7:14 can mean “virgin” or “young woman”. It’s true, the word most commonly used for virgin is “bethulah.” But that doesn’t give us the whole story.
First, the Lord was giving an important sign to Israel (Isaiah 7:13-14). What kind of a sign would it be if a young woman gave birth to a son? That’s an everyday occurrence.
Second, 70 Hebrew scholars translated Isaiah 7:14 into Greek a few hundred years later in the course of developing an official Greek language Old Testament. They chose the Greek word “parthenos”, which can only refer to a person who has never had sexual intercourse, a virgin. The Greek translation was called the Septuagint and was pretty much complete by about 150 BC. (Most New Testament quotes of Old Testament passages are from the Septuagint translation.)
So why didn’t Isaiah use bethulah and avoid the problem altogether? When the Lord gave prophecies with a fulfillment far in the future, he often had His prophets word them so they could be partially fulfilled within their lifetimes. This partial fulfillment served as confirmation of the ultimate one and maintained the prophet’s credibility in accordance with Deut. 18:21-22.
From Isaiah 8 we learn that his own wife bore the son who fulfilled the short term prophecies of Isaiah 7:16-17. The name Immanuel, which means “God with us” was first associated with him (Isaiah 8:10).
The Lord couldn’t call Isaiah’s wife a virgin because she wasn’t one, and besides there would only ever be one virgin birth. But He could use a word that hinted of it, and so he used “alma”. After Isaiah was long gone and they only had the ultimate fulfillment to deal with, the 70 Hebrew Scholars disclosed the clear intent of the passage. The virgin was with child and gave birth to a son who literally was God with us. Matt. 1:23 is correct.
Share On Facebook
Share On Twitter
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Print & PDF
RELATED CONTENT
Read More
The Virgin Mary Had a Baby Boy
READ MORE
Read More
Old Universe, Young Earth?
READ MORE
Read More
Old Earth Young Civilization
READ MORE
Read More
Am I Too Young?
READ MORE
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WTF EWS?
“Q
Orthodox Jews claim that Matthew 1:23 misquoted Isiah 7:14. They say that word “Alma” means young woman and not a virgin. And the word for virgin is “Bethulah”. Is that true?”
Again, why does it matter?
Learning the truth about religions(s) is useful, and being very skeptical of them is necessary.
I never understood why the Virgin Birth was thought necessary. I still can’t see that it leads to any easier acceptance of the Trilogy dogma.
“But, don’t dig too deep! You might wind up like me.”
Haha !! I started out like you…….and ended up waaaay down in a hole with little ‘g’ gods and human sacrifices
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <——====
What is the greatest riddle of the Orient?
Many man smoke but Fu Manchu.
Ancient Chinese Proverb:
Man who walk sideways through airport turnstile, surely going to Bangkok.
Stucky——–I believe as you do, the rapture can happen before this day is finished, Believe in Jesus is the only way to be saved from the coming 7 yeas of tribulation when the One World leader will come on the scene. He will allow the 3rd temple to be built in Jerusalem.
See and read Johns post
There is no rapture. Christians alive at the time of the Tribulation will go through it.
Nice work, Stucky.
You’ve certainly brought out the internet scholars.
OK…I’ll dive in.
First, a quick recap of my semantic rules about any topic like this: It is vital to separate the concepts of Faith, Religion and God. The way to do this is simply by establishing logical domain boundaries for each term.
Faith is individual. Each person can (and simply will) have their own belief structures. Of course, every person has the right to their faith, but really such rights (a term I use sparingly so as not to dilute) are not necessary. We don’t need a right to our beliefs any more than a right to our thoughts. I could, however, easily defend the position that beliefs are more fundamental to us as individuals that even our thoughts…if the two could be easily separated, but I don’t think they can, but I do think they are far deeper than our consciousness.
Religion is communal in nature. The domain boundary for religion, however, is human, period. However far you want to take it back is fine (to me 10,000 years, 100,000 years or a million years are all similar–and short– timescales), but it is constrained to the few billions of sentient meatsacks that have roamed this tiny blue dot of a planet for all of history. Now, a lot of people will like to be anti-religious (most will claims to be atheists, but their primary arguments will be against religions and that position then becomes specious), but they ignore the deep religious instinct that exists in all humans, everywhere and on an evolutionary timescale. Religious practice, predates all modern religions for sure, certainly predates written history and probably predates language itself. Sheldon Solomon makes this point very well on Lex Fridman’s podcast.
Now, God, as a concept, is at the very least much bigger than religion as one. God, to the Christian is Universal (ie Without Him nothing would have been made that has been made), Omnipotent, Omnipresent (in both time and space), Omniscient. I could accept simply Universal arguments (in something of a Multiverse) arguments for God. I can also accept a non-anthropomorphized version like the Tao, the real one, not the one that can be described. What I do not accept as God arguments are Thor or Zeus. This is a massive logical failing, as these are conceptually religious in nature. So please don’t come at me with the whole I don’t believe in all the versions of God, you don’t believe in all the versions but one. Its nonsense and agenda-based thinking.
So far, I have not made any assertions, just setting a baseline logical framework for further discussion.
Now, I don’t really have any idea what I believe as a whole, but I know I don’t buy an entirely materialist version of reality. We are simply made of atoms, our brains excrete consciousness like our livers excrete bile. There are too many things that simply do not fit that model. I believe we are far more profoundly connected to each other and to our environment (Universe) than science can explain or we can imagine. I believe also that there is so much more to existence itself that we do not have enough information to even form proper questions, let alone supply answers.
That all said, I believe in some pretty woo-woo stuff, that I have grounded in my experience and observation and using as much critical thinking and as little agenda-based thinking as I can manage. But I have seen no substantial evidence that anything like prophecy exists. I think, that despite our amazing abilities as creative, conscious beings, we are all equally blind about the future, at least in detail. For instance, take the current NCAA bracket. Can anyone even imagine not only a perfect bracket, but one with exact scores for every game played?
Maybe there are some message from the future (there are plenty of strange and mysterious things out there) but I’m not sure how even the most crazy version of real physics could allow it. I mean, the future doesn’t exist yet. How can we get messages from it?
That all said, apocalyptical literature can be found many places throughout history, not juts in the Book of Revelations. And basically very instantiation of it is about the present struggles of the author’s people.
Good luck with all that at the Great White Thrown Judgement
Am I to have a White Throne thrown at me?
It probably depends, are you White?
“So please don’t come at me with the whole I don’t believe in all the versions of God, you don’t believe in all the versions but one. Its nonsense and agenda-based thinking.”
A g-o-d is one who makes rules for others.
Do you consider this definition nonsense or agenda based ?
Ok, great…some genuine engagement.
Clearly, under the framework I set up, making “rules for others” means people. Therefore it means this on tiny blue dot during the last hundred thousand years or so…this places the question under the category of “Religion” and not under that of “God.”
The rules of God (as I have laid out conceptually) would be things like the fundamental forces, the Laws of Thermodynamics, etc.
Religions in a narrow way are sets of rules. BUT, what people miss, is that there is wheat and chaff in the rules. Some rules are so profound and speak so deeply to us, that they cannot be replaced by anything secular. The Golden Rule, In ALL THINGS Balance, Forgiveness as the highest virtue (divine), judge not lest ye be judged, etc. These are so vital and so deep that we take them for granted, but they are quite literally the foundations of Western Civilization. Far deeper than technology or science or even intelligence. To build a civilization requires intellect sure, but before it can be applied, people must (en masse) must decide its a good thing to do, that the sacrifices of today will pay off in the future. Such an amazing and profound idea that’s it’s basically impossible for me to imagine that we (humans) ever came up with it.
Now, there is power in religion (just like in the State) and power can (and always will) be corrupted. So there are, naturally, many corrupt rules in every religion. Many Atheists (or more accurately anti-religion types) see ONLY the corruption and not the profound. Then you get to things like Dawkins’ “Mind Virus” idea, which is absolutely absurd. Religion is an evolutionary Human Universal, meaning it exists in all cultures, in all places, throughout all known human history. It is paying the costs of its continued existence.
First, thank you for tipping me off in the “Shaking” thread that you submitted a new comment.
I singled out your closing comment because I agree with it. But, I also want to add to it. I would say religion is known not only “throughout all known human history” but also before known human history.
========
(Below) 10,000 year old cave painting, Magura Cave in Bulgaria … images depict solar calendar (oldest ever found), festivals, important events and deities unique to the ancient Balkans. (The guy in the back is holding a King James Bible.)
—
Oldest cave painting in world, ` 40,000 years old, suggests religion began in Indonesia.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2019/12/11/oldest-cave-painting-world-suggests-religion-began-indonesia/
====== =
Great post.I could discuss religion with you all day long, and enjoy every minute of it.
Same here, Stucky.
I disagree to say it was not religion in prehistoric times, but faith. Religions arose later.
I’m not talking about religion. The Kingdom of God is a form of government, not a religion.
Any law which attempts to abrogate, ignore or set aside a higher law is null and void from its inception. Consider the First Commandment and Roman’s 13.
Rulers, judges and leaders are called elohim – this is plural for g-o-d-s. When the Creator God commands us to have ” no other gods before Him” He is claiming the highest law. None may ignore it. Those that do are “false gods”, whether men or demons.
“The Kingdom of God is a form of government, not a religion.”
And you know this how Druid?
Druid,,
Does this, “A g-o-d is one who makes rules for others.” mean all our federal bureaucrats are gods?
God, I hope not!
Hi Stucky. Revelation 1:3 says whoever reads and studies this book will be blessed. Sounds good to me,
Better start brushing up on your Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine if you intend to read the Bible. Plus you might want to source all those books that were left out buy the censors.
Best comment of the whole thread. All translations are flawed. The ancient near east world interacted with their literature and considered it important and many times it was quoted in the Bible.
“All translations are flawed.”
He didn’t say that Mary.
In fact, the King James version is very faithful to the original texts, the ones that exist.
Joe’s complete line was “Just the facts , Ma’am, just the facts”.
Somber and important, i have been drained by years of wrestling with the questions myself. But my last calculations were 11 out of 12 will perish in the book of revelations as a literal blueprint of the planets judgement.
As for praying for and hoping for the judgement, i have realized for a long time now, i will not die unless God allows it, i know of supernatural providence. I have been struck by a car traveling 60 mph along a highway on a bicycle and tumbling through the air and have a force grab me and rest me along the road and not have a scratch.
But it would be better of me to use that energy in freeing others of the grip the world holds over me and them, thank you Stucky you have helped with this article, in removing a bit more of the plank from my own eyes.
Mathew 7:3-5
3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
There has been a lot of that happening in my life for the last year, recently i said in a group chat God bless Joe Biden, and the shock, “did you just say God bless Joe Biden ? ” But many do not understand i am reaching the point of not having a choice in the matter. It just spilled out on it’s own, do i hate the evil he represents ? with all my being.
Romans 12:14-21
Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
Galatians 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
It’s a process, God knows who are his, and it is a time, season for all things and everyone to have truth revealed to them.
Look at the disciples, fishermen, tax collector a zealot and thief. Later, Paul was a pharisee who persecuted Christians and became a apostle. Do you suppose they were aware the day before of the calling and having been chosen ?
John 10:34-38
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[a]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
Notice in revelation the casting of crowns before the throne of god, and the multitude crying you are worthy, no one who chooses the truth will retain there “godhead” but will submit themselves to the Author the alpha and omega of there redemption.
There is so much i could say, you have heard of the “living word of god”, it is in reference to Christ of course, but beyond that, scripture themselves, the words on the pages will spring forth, to move with a will outside the boundaries of those pages to those who can see.
To be a young child reading the bible the first time having the presence of the lord arrive , to see the “smoke and feel the house shake.
To be with the word and in commune with God and not with your family, to go downstairs to use the bathroom and have your mother ask, ” why is your face glowing ? ”
And when the lord opens your sight, you attract the spiritual evil also, like moths to a flame, i recall becoming evil myself, swimming in it, the word says “test the spirits”and the devil can quote scripture also. Being a 95 pound boy and grabbing a pool table in rage and flipping it through the air and it spinning twice to land shattered was an unbelievable excuse to my friends parents. And i grew darker, until i cried for release and the Lord lifted my affliction and dissolved any Faustian bargains i made with dark entities.
My mother had gifts also, of prophecy, spiritual sight, a certain calm and peacefulness, wild doves would land on her or at her feet.
At a certain point in my life i traveled to Texas, after have been in the presence of truly evil men, there eyes lit like burning coals of fire glowing red or orange. And other unnatural occurrences in my presence. I fled to Phoenix. The lord having spoken to me many years earlier instructing me to go west, nudged me there by opening my eyes to the spiritual evil around me. Yes he will save his people, and finish his works.
My family thought i was paranoid, going crazy or on drugs.
After a few months and i had settled down a dove was at my mothers feet and i wanted to draw closer to it, and held my arms out , in a sign of harmlessness ? i don’t know, but my mother gasped went inside and the dove flew off. I went in and asked her what was happening and in the presence in the rest of the family she said ” i know my son’s not crazy, for a instant i saw Jesus standing on you”
Yes God has blessed me and has a plan for me, i have not always been willing and will be beaten with many stripes at my judgement, but everyday it becomes clearer of the path i am on now.
I find myself drawn to the book of Jeremiah , a nudge, and feel i will soon read my bible all the way through a third time and out loud and in a very public place, sealing the deal so to speak.
I have spent years having the bible on CD and listening to it in my truck driving to and fro to work, but finding myself a spiritual black hole of never being filled, i believe God has been preparing me as a vessel and when the time comes the holy spirit required will be scary to the observer. Now my flesh is weak and the glory will be his alone.
The world, reality is what has been describe to us, and only things that exist outside of that reality, can begin to undo the evil reality we live in. I consider the bible to be the means God uses to accomplish this. Rewriting the reality inside of a person. You become contrary to the world.
Thank you Stucky and TBPers for the years of nudges, small waves pushing a piece of driftwood across a vast ocean to bring me to a shore. And sorry for such a long post, a nudge to those who will read it, and myself perhaps.
Matthew 8:29
“And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?”
Tick Tock says the clock….
Backing away slowly with eyes averted.
Just when I was at the point of thinking to myself, really, — “why the fuck do I even bother writing original religious articles anymore!” — along comes you, and you made my day.
I don’t know what specifically was a blessing to you, but that’s not what matters to me. What matters to me is that in some small way your life was touched by my thoughts. I write for people such as you!
Thanks for sharing. Thanks for kind words.
God works in mysterious ways.
The article helped me to see my place more clearly, and has brought me a better understanding of the why’s. Men are supposed to accept these things on faith alone, but a child’s understanding is not enough. A nudge is all it takes.
It has reawakened me on a spiritual level, the world is in the midst of such an awakening now. And the Devil’s is heading towards endgame. And if the end doesn’t come, it is at least another huge spiritual battle happening. Because i don’t want to go around proclaiming the end of the world.
Matthew 24:36 KJV
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
1 Corinthians 13:11-13 KJV
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
That’s fantastic.
So Paul says to put away childish things. OK.
But, Jesus said we should become like children;
— Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
But, on another occasion Jesus is somewhat dismissive of children’
— “But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their playmates, “We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.”
.
All that to say — few things are black&white in Scripture. But, so many think it is. We ALL need nudges from time to time.
A child does not understand his part, follow your parents instruction, the reasoning or why, don’t do that, or do this, it takes an adult to understand the why, and a child’s willingness to accept and follow it. You need both in your life. So you don’t accept candy from strangers for starters.
Let me add, is today’s generation any different, still children, materialism, sports, TV entertainment, as i was, but i am becoming an adult and an adult should protect the children, and understand it takes faith as a child when the father speaks.
And some of you all may have a hard time understanding this, but God has vessels of honor and dishonor in his house and may believe he will use only use the vessels of honor to bring his kingdom forth,not all vessels are the same or for the same purposes, read up on the gifts of the spirit, and search the word for examples of these, go read up on Balaam’s ass. Numbers 22:21-39
All that to say — few things are black&white in Scripture…..lol
I came back thru to see if anyone had responded to any of my posts, as usual. I never did finish reading the last 15 pages of the link you posted in the article, just another intellectual that thinks they hold the answer is what it seemed like to me.
I’ll post these, although few here seem to spend anytime giving an opinion on anything I’ve posted.
This next one (both of these just randomly showed up on the sidebar while watching a tuckercarlson news clip on utube) is by the right hand man of the late Dr. Chuck Missler (look up his bio), and is simply script on the screen while he reads it. Speed it up……and you won’t spend about ten minutes listening.
“Hath God said….?”
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <——====
Those horsemen have been riding for eons, imho. As a historian, can you point me to a period of history where the earth was not filled with wars, rumors of wars, cataclysmic weather…etc?
What does the qualifying statement of "as it was in the days of Noe" mean to you preterists?
I’m going to respond to that because I genuinely like you. Do not take what I am about to say as a criticism. A fake friend will tell you that you look great. A real friend will tell you you’re too fucken old to wear that Speedo. It’s like that.
====
First, the links. As for myself, I would estimate I click on no more than 10% of the links people post. I’m sure no more than 10% of the links I provide are clicked. I provide links, you do, flash does, Maggie does, RiNS does, BL does, Mygirl does ….. almost everyone here does at one time or another. It is waaay to overwhelming to click on them all, or even most of them, cuz it would take literally hours to do so. Hence … the 10% hit rate. That should not cause consternation. It’s just the way it is.
One other thing about links is HOW they are used. I generally provide them only as, 1) the source of my material or, 2) an “if you want more info” type of thing. I do NOT provide them as the basis of my argument! And too many people do exactly that.
What I mean is that if someone responds to my comment or inquiry with a “Here, you need to go read this!” my response internally is “Screw you!”. That’s because I’m not interested in what some Linky Person has to say, I want to know what YOU have to say.
That doesn’t mean you, I, or anyone ought to stop posting links. Heaven forbid! I’m sayin’ just adjust your expectations to the right setting.
=====
Now let’s briefly talk about Content. Many of your posts are about esoteric happenings in the Spirit world — Watchers, the offspring of copulation between angels and human women, GIANTS!, Annunaki, Illuminati, and maybe even a Reptile or two. Let’s face the facts; … this kind of stuff is waaaaay “out there” for most people. It just doesn’t “float their boat”, so to say.
I’m not saying you should stop posting such material. Rather, here also, I am suggesting that you adjust your expectations.
I just hate to think you’re taking the few responses to your posts personally — because you really are a nice guy, and everybody would agree with that.
Like you, Stucky, I limit what I click on and the context in which it is offered.
I usually do take a look at Ordie’s videos. The “Age of Deceit” caught my attention as it offers a look at the discussion about what God hath or hath not said and whether or not God deceived Eve first.
The Bible, perhaps by Design, has a chronology problem, doesn’t it?
The time pointers and contextual clues are spotty at best and misleading and contradictory in spite of my being taught that every Word in that Book is truth and don’t ever deny it or I might end up in the wrong place.
Like you, I’ve heard a sermon or two thousand in my life. As a small child in rural farm community, I went to a General Baptist church built on a three-acre plot donated by local landowners to build a church and school in the middle of what was once the Mississippi floodplain. The church, about three miles from our farm by bicycle, but less than two if walking through fields of corn, wheat or beans, carefully respecting the plants if taking the shortcut.
I took you on that long journey to the church because it was the endpoint of my bicycle riding or walkabout limit. If my parents needed to find me, I’d better be somewhere between the farmhouse and the church.
Somewhere Between the Farmhouse and the Church
That almost sounds like a good place to stop and meet Jesus, doesn’t it?
I have to step away, but hope that when I return, I’ve inspired you to think about why Eve might have decided to question the rules and go beyond the church.
I know you are a busy man, Stuckenheimer.
Therefore, I figured I would make this one worth your time. Since I’m making my own little “memeable” comparison, I could post the image and ask for comments to accompany the image.
If I could find an image of Rachel with a hat on…
“Now let’s briefly talk about Content. Many of your posts are about esoteric happenings in the Spirit world — Watchers, the offspring of copulation between angels and human women, GIANTS!, Annunaki, Illuminati, and maybe even a Reptile or two. Let’s face the facts; … this kind of stuff is waaaaay “out there” for most people. It just doesn’t “float their boat”, so to say.”
[Haha….I was going to use an analogy about boat building in a response to GCP the other day, but went with a house instead]
Over my years of studying the bibble, I found most curious the waaaay out there subjects, and just who/what is really running the show:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Awakening_(sculpture)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiA2VtXykkE&t=66s
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—–===
From the wiki link…..have you seen this Maggie?
The Awakening II
Seward Johnson created a copy of The Awakening, which was unveiled in Chesterfield, Missouri on October 10, 2009. The sculpture is located adjacent to Chesterfield Central Park, near the intersection of Chesterfield Parkway and Park Circle Drive to the west of Chesterfield Mall. The installation of the sculpture in Chesterfield was commissioned by Chesterfield Arts, which is a non-profit arts organization supporting public art and the visual, performing and literary arts in Chesterfield and the West County. $1 million in funding was provided by Sachs Properties
Adjusting my expectations…….lol. I could post, as you know, volumes of links, created by many different 'boat builders', to address each of the above listed subject matters. All a part of God's creation, and covered in the operating manual He has provided….
I’ll watch.
I am composing a longer response to Stucky below, but wanted to let you know I read and quite often get interested in the links you provide and never find my way back to let you know.
And, then, you teach me stuff I didn’t know. Like this…
https://www.gotquestions.org/preterist.html
Hopefully, I will not get distracted and will finish my reply to Stucky, below. I think you will see how your comments stirred my thoughts.
edited: See? I’m still reading links because of this!
“Eschatology is a complex subject, and the Bible’s use of apocalyptic imagery to relate many prophecies has led to a variety of interpretations of end-time events. There is room for some disagreement within Christianity regarding these things. However, full preterism has some serious flaws in that it denies the physical reality of Christ’s second coming and downplays the dreadful nature of the tribulation by restricting that event to the fall of Jerusalem.”
Which has now led me to this… I may NEVER get back to Stucky’s reply.
https://www.christianbook.com/understanding-end-times-prophecy-comprehensive-approach/paul-benware/9780802490797/pd/90796?event=AFF&p=1011693&
Question: “What is Christian Eschatology?”
https://www.gotquestions.org/Eschatology.html
Nice succinct summary of Christian Eschatology and the questions surrounding it.
I’m not a preterist mainly because of the obvious flaws with stating prophecy was ,
.
To think that Isaiah, for example, prophesying about the coming Son of God was written historically, or after the fact, is beyond ignorant and willfully ignorant. The dead sea scrolls kinda put a nail in that coffin. As do other documents.
Thx for the post. Its a good’n
Why are you being obtuse? Why are you ignoring Maggie’s post?
There are TWO types of preterism; Full …. and Partial. Partial preterists do not state that “ALL” prophecy is history.
.
If you get some downtime…..
Interesting and informative.
Mornin’ Ghost….
“I am composing a longer response to Stucky below, but wanted to let you know I read and quite often get interested in the links you provide and never find my way back to let you know.”
Thanks, I know it’s like Stucky said about soooo many different links and the time.
I used to have other interests….had a boat, a bike, sports…..hell, I had a drawer full of candles with wicks on both ends.
All I’ve got now is a desire (…a consuming fire) to understand the insanity of todays’ conditions…..maybe get some feedback from people who are more intelligent than I, on content produced by people who equally outrank my cognitive ability…
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—–=====
We are to encourage one another as well as we can. I appreciate your opinion even when I (rarely) disagree.
All I’ve got now is a desire (…a consuming fire) to understand the insanity of todays’ conditions…..
I’m in the same boat, my friend — logging too much computer time to find the answers…
Outstanding… Thank you Monger.
Exactly right. Once a person accepts Christ as the Lord of their life and cedes control to Him begins the journey towards holiness or right living, as was intended. Thats why churches are filled with hypocrites and sinners, just the same as those are outside the church. Only most of those going to hear Gods word are seeking to change their lives from sinner to saint. Its a process…
We gain better understanding as our minds are transformed from darkness into light. We ALL start out as babies. Some stay that way their entire lives tho, which is sad.
A reasonable explanation why there are hypocrites in church. Two questions … which you are free to ignore, of course;
—1) Why are there so MANY hypocrites in a church environment … more so than in other places, imho?
—2) Why are there so few, if any, hypocrites in a whore house? You might have to think about that for a while.
Thirty years back, I was speaking to another Lutheran pastor about the subject of hypocrites (like my own mother) in a church environment. He told me something that has stuck with me……”all Christians are hypocrites, but not all hypocrites are Christians”
Brian’s comment from above:
“Only most of those going to hear Gods word are seeking to change their lives from sinner to saint. Its a process…”
I believe this comment to be an accurate one. The “It’ a process..” part is what leads to the ‘hypocrite’ label…..meaning this implies that salvation is something to be worked out, when in fact, it is a gift of Grace.
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <<——-=====
“Its a process…”
Salvation has three parts:
Justification happens at a point in time, and not repeated.
Sanctification begins after Justification and continues until Glorification.
Glorification begins at resurrection.
Sanctification is our “work”, the rest is His.
messianicdruid….
I’m runnin a bit short on time right now so this will be an incomplete response, but I get what you’re saying…..
‘sanctification’ is only mentioned five times in a KJV, and two of them have to do with keepin your pecker in your pants….lol.
“But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.” 2 Thess. 2:13,14
“But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.” 1 Co. 1:30,31
“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.” 1 Peter 1:2
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—-===
Was there communion before Christ?
I’ve got some more time to elaborate a bit……….but why?
Either we are saved by Grace thru faith……..or we are not.
I say we are!
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—–====
Its a simple concept that many cannot grasp or do not want to grasp. I tease my Bulgarian friends and bro/sis when we chat about doctrines. There are yes no answer to many doctrines. They are not controversial but more of an understanding problem.
Saved by grace the free gift of God. Yet scripture also states for us to count the cost for its steep. It not only costs you your servitude to God but also may cost you your family, friends, freedom and even your earthly life.
If its free that means I can do nothing to earn it. And yet, as Stucky likes out point out, we must work out or salvation and because God is a sadistic meanie, it must be in fear and trembling. But the real meaning is if a person is truly given themselves to God they will willingly WANT to serve Him. That servitude produces righteous fruits, for which will define us and set us apart. Should be easily visible to those in the world around us.
The fear and trembling should be the mind set of, its a soul shaking thought to be in the presence of an immensely powerful being, as witnessed encounters where like Isiah, when he states his bones came undone and shook. If a person thinks they said, forgive me and they are now a ‘christian’, forgiven, and then go back to their regular programming and daily life, without seeking and searching for greater understanding of God… then they are truly on dangerous grounds.
So I give the Bulgarian answer… yes no.
You might like this study also………Salvation and Discipleship are two different things. You can be saved, born again to eternal life, without following…….. enjoy this study
https://freegrace.in/series/salvation-and-discipleship/
I will say He loved me first, so I love Him and to know Him is to Love Him is to want to serve Him…………….it doesn’t always happen but that doesn’t change what He did………
You might find some of this interesting…..
https://freegrace.in/series/salvation-and-discipleship/
Scripture is perfectly clear about the existence of these people/this phenomena and makes no apology. Jesus himself called it out; ‘white washed tombs.’ Weakness of man is not an argument against the truth of scripture.
Masks?
After taking a close look at your questions, having just emerged from a journey in my memory from my childhood farm home to the church in the summer, when I walked there to mow the lawn with a push mower for $15. At least it wasn’t uphill.
Flat as a flitter, the land where up I grew.
So…
1. Because we can assume everyone in the church is a sinner, therefore hypocrite in our own opinions.
2. How many times have any of us actually been in a whore house? And, while there, exactly how many people did you meet and talk to long enough to judge?
Seriously, Stucky? How many people did you meet while in the whorehouse?
I ended up putting this in the wrong place and either it makes no sense at all here or Stucky didn’t see it.
Or is ignoring me.
Never been to a whorehouse. Not necessary to answer the question.
Church goers attend church under various pretenses; to actually worship god is the only good reason. Others go for show, to be seen, for their kid’s sake, habit, etc.etc.
A dude goes to a whorehouse for one and only one reason. Sexual gratification. Hence, no hypocrites in whore houses.
========
About 45 minutes ago I hear my mother SCREAMING (!!!!) my name as loud as I ever heard her scream. I run upstairs. A one foot flame of fire is coming out of the toaster itself, and a small tablecloth is on fire, and the wall is scorched. Turns out she put some frozen caramel covered pastry in the toaster, walked (actually, wheeled) away, and when she returned, Da Fire.
COULD have burned the house down, really. But, other than a ruined toaster (which I bought just 2 months ago) and a pretty charcoaled wall … no harm done.
She is still distraught. I’m grateful. Which one of us has the right attitude? I say, me!
Leaving now to get a new toaster. Walmart. That’s right. Walmart. CHEAP prices, baby. Plus, I want to help bring down the country faster.
I wasn’t ignoring you.
Nick and I married late September 1992. In early November, Nick’s brother was badly burned in a housefire originating in his kitchen, when a simmering skillet of fried potatoes ignited. He passed away before Thanksgiving of infection resulting from the decaying tissue.
It was then I met that wonderful pack of Cleveland Italians, including Richey Piiparinen’s grandmother.
I sent his mother, Nick’s cousin, that book and told her I was praying for a miracle, believing.
I knew you weren’t.
I have much more i could say on the matter concerning the spiritual realm that surrounds us, observations, musings, information i have gleaned along the way, vulnerabilities of evil spirits, if evil demonic forces poured into our world how many would fold, how many could continue to survive or begin to resist ?
Been following the Alt-right for some time now, most would view themselves as sheep dogs protecting the flock, in the physical realm.
God has sheep dogs who also protect the sheep, from the spiritual realm. Preacher, Pastor, Priest, man of God, it is who they are and called to be. Soldiers in God’s army, drafted, like any kingdom he has other agents as well. There was a church i attended at one time, led by a true shepherd, and he said to me “God has mighty works for you” I don’t say it to brag, but as a matter of faith.
Could you imagine the consternation towards a person who abandons his life to show up outside any of a 1000 power points of man filled with evil spiritual energy and have that individual start reading the Bible out loud everyday until finished ? Now add to it the disruption in the evil spiritual realm that holds sway at that location, the sheep dogs say ” throwing sand in the gears, spokes in the wheels of empire” it would be doing the same to the devil’s kingdom.
Imagine tossing a random element on top a spiritual battle, like a saboteur, Synonyms. ruiner diversionist waster uprooter undoer destroyer wrecker sleeper. I had such an experience in the 90’s, and was unaware that it was even happening at the time.
“Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth… They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone… In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces.” – Revelation 9:3-10
Such a creature is actually slayable, once long ago i discovered a musty tome in a country library, and in it’s pages was a description of a knight encountering such a creature, it was impervious to his weapons from the outside, and slaying it was by the expedient of ramming his spear down it’s throat, it is vulnerable from the inside.
“Cold iron” is historically believed to repel, contain, or harm ghosts, fairies, witches, and other malevolent supernatural creatures.
We see the world as divided air,water,earth, the spiritual realm is a 4th state, birds fly, fish swim demonic forces can swim through solid earth as a fish in the sea, so it is with men in the spiritual realm. Swim, being more of a way to describe locomotion, rather that the actual, physics of it ?
Ephesians 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
I will relate another story of my youth, in High school, there was a place mile out of town, a hill overlooking the highway where people would go bring there girlfriends or party, watermelon hill, an had a local legend of people seeing a bear. This was in east central Iowa, it is still said Iowa does not have breeding bears to this day, perhaps a few may wonder in a few may wander in from the neighboring states i suppose.
One Friday night half dozen of us pooled our money and got a case of beer, drinking age was 19, were all 17-19 year old high Schoolers, buddy was driving his mom’s 4 door chevy impala boat and we went out to the hill, middle of winter, cold as hell, pitch black, after a few hours the beer and buzz were wearing off and a light snow began to fall, so it was agreed let’s go back to town, and we still had curfews,buddy needed to get his mom’s car home before a certain time.
Well we got down to the highway, putt putting along and someone says “what’s that” we grew quiet and looked and there was this black spot in the middle of the road 200m away, and we all are intrigued.
Slowly, closer, closer,spot grows larger, small red eyes appear, someone says “Punch It” driver floors it, we’re only doing like 25mph this whole time, takes a few seconds really start accelerating, and this thing stands up.
Now for the weird part, it was as if we all had a panic attack, and whatever this thing was we hit it square with that 2 tons of Detroit steel. We rocketed into town all losing our heads, jabbering, disturbed for a good 10 -15 minutes, and began to settle down, gas in the tank was a issue. We parked it and soon found ourselves able to begin talking coherently to each other again.
Began discussing, and it went around to “what did you see” one person said, it was a bear of course, another said it was a huge black dog, another said biggest raccoon he ever saw, another guy said, i don’t know a pig ?, the last man was still in the front seat , pasty white and trembling, when pressed of what he saw he turned in rage and said, “STFU i don’t ever want to speak of this again”
Now for what i saw, It stood up, 9 feet tall and 4 feet wide with huge glowing red eyes, and we hit it, 40-50mph, Poof, cars shudders and time fluctuates, slows down, and whatever this things is, black mist is even passing through the vehicle, out the back, left behind.
That had to hurt, a evil spiritual entity being smacked like that, the removal of Detroit and all these Steel cars takes on a whole new meaning now. Less escape for the unaware on lonely highways, less wasted energies. Because what is steel but a refined iron.
Salt, salt water i believe has an effect on them, we have salt water in our blood…
“He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.” -Friedrich Nietzsche.
These things show up in your life…. you don’t stick around, they can kiss your ass, and if you have the armor of god, you are protected, filled with righteousness, waste those fuckers, especially if others are involved, for there sake.
John 15:13 KJV
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
I have other tales of anecdotal note, but wish to leave it be for now. I will add that some people will not accept religious or the spiritual notions because of science, rational , i get that, but consider the ancients did not have the scientific knowledge to describe it, look at as inter dimensional beings, aliens, Here, BUT NOT FULLY here.
And they communicate, feed, and they can deceive the unwary. Look at prey relationships among insects. It’s very hard to describe, they can lead you on, make you forget, they can…. get inside of you…
We are like ants in Gods ant colony, and things slip in, But when God pulls that lid off to clean the tank, well i hope you understand what that means…
But for the good news.
Isaiah 65:17
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth
Isaiah 66:22
“For just as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I make will endure before Me,” declares the Lord,
“So your offspring and your name will endure.
We getting a new… container in the future.
One more parting thought, the spiritual battles that have raged across this planet since ever, are spilled over into the internet. I had wished to write something like this for a while now. I will be able to copy- paste this and pass it on. Perhaps someone will have need of this info to…. escape.
Thank you again Stucky and God Bless you all and open your eyes and on how you should… act.
It’s strange how much the Protestants focus on Revelation, probably because they are so keen to declare the Pope/Catholic Church forces of evil. It seems to have nothing to do with Jesus’ teaching
Given the Pope/Catholic Church worked diligently to protect child molesters, it is not a long bow to draw to declare them forces of evil. They still have not eradicated all the perpetrators from their ranks.
Spiritual leaders have many opportunities to be in intimate and semi intimate situations will wide eyed and or troubled youth of both sexes.
Ghandi regularly slept with his 14 or 15 year old niece. She was naked. He claimed it was for spiritual training/exercise to resist temptation.
Believe him?
In the Douay-Rheims (Catholic translation) the book of Revelation is titled Apocalypse, but it’s there. If you’re Catholic, try the lovely Jerusalem Bible in modern English.
Nope!Sitting this one out!
I also will be dead before all the fun of Revelations released.
Here is an opinion that covers a lot of prophetic ground…
My favorite question:
If God could save everyone, would He do it?
https://godskingdom.org/studies/books/if-god-could-save-everyone-would-he/chapter-1-if-god-could-save-everyone-would-he
messianicdruid,
If you answer me that you read my link…I will read yours…and answer your question to the best of my ability.
I’m only here an hour a day in about 15/20 minute segments so give me a couple of hours if you reply.
I was looking at a few images of ET and realized something.
Two featured articles up right now. One is about politics and asks “who is shaking the jar”, and the other is about religion and God shaking the earth. This is what makes TBP special …. the … the …. DIVERSITY of topics!
But, something strange is going on in this thread as reflected by the voting pattern;
— Glock N Load asks a simple straightforward question why Rev. isn’t preached more in church … and gets 3 thumbs down.
— I respond with a possible and reasonable answer … 4 thumbs down
— ordo makes a little joke …. 5 thumbs down
— subwo asks a simple question about links …. 5 thumbs down!!
— rhs jr says nothing more than “Keep praying!” …. no ups, and 2 downs
WTF is going on here? I have a guess.
The content of a person’s comment no longer matters one whit. People are now voting strictly on personality. Oh, it’s Stephanie? Down vote! Oh, it’s GCP? Down vote! Oh, it’s Stucky? Down vote! Oh, it’s Mark? Down vote!!
It’s a division between “us” and “them”. In this thread it’s between people perceived as believers vs those who are not. You can see that not only by the down votes, but also the corresponding up votes. It’s generally an even split, or close. Nothing screams us-vs-them than that.
This is a sad state of affairs. it almost mirrors the division in America. People gathering in their little groups of identical thinking, fuck everybody else who diverges.
The golden idea that we’re all one big happy family here, generally united in goals, ideas, and thought is starting to lose it’s luster.
The downvote brigade are just watering down the voting system. TBP has NEVER been a place for a hive mind mentality. Sometimes I wish Admin would get rid of the votes or find a way for only those who are logged in to vote.
I’m still fairly new here and somewhat/sometimes dense . How does one “log on” at this site? Didn’t know there was such a thing.
Enjoying this article and the comments, both respectful and otherwise.
Let’s make a law, no more down votes. That’s funny coming TBP. Let’s limit who gets to vote too. Land owners and humans with dicks. Let’s get rid of the negative all together. Up-votes only. Agree or go home.
You do a heck of a job around here Stuck. Here’s my comment to you above in case you don’t see it there…
“My mother and father are hard core church goers. I called him just today and told him I would go to church with them the next time their church had a sermon on the book of Revelations. He said, their church has to find a traveling preacher every other week. He said he would be sure to find a preacher asap who will do just that. He really wants me to go to church with them. I said I will not go if I have to wear a mask. He said no one has to wear a mask at their church. They live and go to church in MD.”
ordo makes a little joke …. 5 thumbs down
I knew you’d get it…..
I read about 10 pages of your link yesterday, until I got distracted. Look at the in depth discussion that can result from just one word….’ek’…lol
I read my KJV in the dead of night for years…then I began ‘finding’ those that reflected what my heart told me that Book was saying. ‘Itching ears’ syndrome? I sure don’t think so
My dad was a simple man. He told me once, not long before he died, that if I wanted to preach, get out on a street corner and start reading my bible out loud. That was all the ‘seminary’ training a man needed….lol
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—–====
I'm stickin with the free gift of Grace offered….I haven't been able to do much of anything right in my days on this ole planet..
Ordo, you know what bothers me more than fights about dispensationalism, denominations and the end times?
People forget there are real spiritual entities at war with us and each other. Each dimension AFFECTS the other. And that has profound EFFECTS. When we forget that, nothing else makes sense.
“When we forget that, nothing else makes sense.”
Amen……REAL entities, immortal not eternal.
I listen to a lot of those naked bible podcasts, and have been following some of ‘Unraveling Revelation’ with Derek and Sharon Gilbert, who have posted half hour programs for over a year now.
I lean towards the four horsemen riding for centuries, and that these ‘entities’ have names much like what is discussed in this example-begin at 2:45 thru 11:45 and then from 15:45 to the end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17FBsK6oufk
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <——=====
Next up will probably by UN troops to 'help with the humanitarian crisis at the border'….
MC…
I got back on this computer for a minute to check the headlines at steve quayle…and thru a michael snyder article about an increase in demonic possessions, there was this link:
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/terrified-grandma-finds-demon-with-horns-standing-over-toddlers-bed-c-2378546
I see this sort of ‘thing’ as a coinky dink, even though I understand the waters I swim in, if ya get my drift…
It just seems weird that I would come across specific and recent reference to the subject of ‘other entities’….check out the photo
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <—–====
Ordo, there are some that believe that CERN opened up a portal, either on purpose (most likely, I think) or accidentally, but it can’t be shut now. Here is one reason why I think it was on purpose. This is less than 20 minutes so it won’t take up all of your time. It’s Richie From Boston on CERN uploaded last night.
Very interesting video. This is reaaly, imo, what the Tower of Babel was all about. It wasn’t simply to built a big stone, dirt mound to reach the Heavens. It was about the intent to reach the Heavens by other ‘means’.
Good vid… thought provoking. I do agree with this fella as well in his mentioning the symbolism and their broadcasting their intensions. Its like they are required to announce these things before doing them.
How do I share that on another platform or via email, Mary?
It actually reminds me of a very weird DVD I purchased many years ago from a little junky store by the road here that sold old DVDs made by all sorts of fly-by-nighters when making videos for private distribution was all the rage.
The set of “discussions” was with a group of former CIA operatives who were part of a time-travel experiment. They talked about the limitations of what they could and could not do and talked about going through a literal tunnel.
Maggie here it is:
https://www.bitchute.com/channel/juH53r3AyWVW/
No need to ask where the man in the video is getting his information from, an army of self replicating robots, with a demonic AI at it’s helm loosed upon the earth, and not giving a shit about what we want is a thing of nightmares, building a mega structure across the suburbs without regard to zoning laws, and that was before lunch.
MC…
The clip of the guy at about 5:45 (Geordi?) is one that I’ve seen in another video, dealing with the same subject as Richie from B….
I came across that Richie a long time back, 10 yrs. maybe, and don’t follow him much, but a buddy of mine sends me a link to him now and again. I haven’t seen anything from him that was ‘original’, (if that’s the right word).
The whole ‘bene ha elohim’ theory vs. the sons of Seth theory is something new to me within the past 15 yrs. or so, and I truly believe one must grasp the reality of unseen entities in order to begin to understand the mundane ‘Turning’ that is about to take place…..
“Black holes may be entrances to Wonderlands. But are there Alices or white rabbits?”—Carl Sagan
https://www.skywatchtv.com/2021/03/25/part21/
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <——=====
Nicely demonstrated effect.
This what makes www wonderful, finding a quick explanation of how the present Age of Grace ends and the future Judgment gets started. The Age of Grace has been deceivingly easy to live in and deny the giver of all life. Every single person has a father. Father God, or Father of Lies. If God is your Father he will know you, and you him. Note well that many commenters argue against The Revelation of Jesus Christ to be a understandable book of the events exactly has they will happen and so laid out by Stucky. This is because the Bible is a love letter written to encourage the bride of Christ. When you read someone else’s love letter it doesn’t work for you. Couples who have a life long bond of marriage understand the assurance of listening to their lovers words spoken to each other. So it is for believers who hear the word of God spoken to them. For the haters of the Word of God: Save up vitamine D3. Dark days ahead. You’ve been warned.
There are those that enjoy tossing out books like Revelation because they known there will be blood in the water. Its to cause as much of a show as possible and discredit Christians and the scriptures.
Revelation is a book filled with imagery and while it is an very interesting book and one that generates much conversation, it is not pertinent to ones salvation. The more important knowledge is that which you identified.
‘Preciate your good work with this article. Thx Stucky.
Georgia Guidestones…we’re all going to F’ng die, except the several million that George, Klaus and Bill keep as their slaves.
Revelation is not IMHO literal, it’s symbolic allegory. Good vs. Evil, Yin vs. Yang.
If you’re evil sooner or later God’s gonna cut you down
https://youtu.be/OgdeJdb4PBo
Three of us took route 101 Turkey Road over to Graceland back in ’78
Ever been there?
Graceland, yes. Turkey Road?
We drank a LOTTA wild turkey 101 in those days……
One Friday night, ‘hot rods’ circled like wagons in a pasture, 3/4 thru a quart, somebody plugged in an Elvis tape………..so we gassed up and headed out (just 500 miles, lol)
We pulled in just after sun up, and I talked a lady letting her dog out into letting us ‘look over her back wall’ at Graceland. The wall was probably 10″ wide and 8′ tall. She let us ‘hop’ up on it with the help of nearby branches, as she forewarned us that security would see us before us “three monkeys all got up there”………haha, she was right.
My wife and I went over from Bull Shoals once in the late 80’s. We toured the house and plane like civilized people…quite a place
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum <——=====
Memphis was less than a hundred miles from the Missouri bootheel town where up in I grew.
We took field trips to Graceland. LOL.
People love a great dystopian sci-fi story. Especially when they don’t see how things can continue on going the way they are. This is Roman Empire Hollywood and amusingly done by the same people. If you want to understand where we are headed, look at the collapse of the Bronze Age. This is what Revelations is projecting. The author embellishes in writing the oral history of that great collapse. There will be an economic collapse, then a trade collapse, then wars and the real killer will be famine. Each will aggravate the other. It could come sooner than we think.
When theological speculation runs rampant I have but one statement. Too much theology and not enough Jesus.
More likely an article presented to get a number count. Revelation is a great book to get that count on.
Ask for forgiveness of your sins.. Accept Jesus as your savior,who died so that you could have life. Believe it with all your heart and soul. Live a moral life and ask forgiveness,while trying not to willfully sin,and you might have a good chance of eternal life.
Seems pretty basic to me at least.
You might benefit from this — https://freegrace.in/series/salvation-and-discipleship/
I’ll be hiding under my bed til further notice.
Be careful to check what is hiding there first.
I know right? If I was a scaredy cat type , this article would send me to the nervous hospital. I tend to reject about 90% of the worldly BS and go on about my bidness. Hope you are well Mags. 🙂
Keeping my head down and my business minded. I sold more than 40 rabbits to local farm stores this spring. EC would be proud of me for giving my poor bunnies some hope in a bleak and dismal world.
He cracked me up when he said that my rabbits lived a life of quiet desperation. Now? They are selling like hotcakes to the Easter Bunny sort of people and, while you and I know that lasts until the second or third time someone doesn’t clean the cage, at least they have a shot at not being eaten.
So, my biggest problem now is timing the births of litters so that I can sell about a dozen kits each month. Last month, I mis-timed and ended up with 22 weaned kits and some of them got sick and died. In the store. YIKES. I ended up replacing a half-dozen kits and promised to replace any of my bunnies that die from here on out.
They pay me between 10 to 15 bucks each for weaned kits. That’s big bunny money!
The part about 100 pound hailstones jumped out at me. Did some calculations and that would be a sphere about 18 inches in diameter. 12 gallons of frozen water.
Great article Stucky. But, early in it you wrote the beast of Rev.13 has 10 horns and 10 heads. But, it has 10 horns and 7 heads.
The actual number of deaths during the great tribulation is well over 1/2 of those who go through it. But, what is most important regarding these deaths, and death in general, is whether one dies joined to, or separated from, Jesus.
Hey, what’s three extra heads among friends? Lol Proof reading is difficult on a ~ 4,000 word article.
Thanks. There is nothing controversial about the first 4/5ths of the article. Reading Rev 6 – 22 and summarizing the important points in each chapter took much time. I would think the Two False TBP Prophets harassing me, the Unintentional Servant of God, on this thread would appreciate that TPBers — some who never read Revelation — are being introduced to the Word of God!
But, nooooo! These cowardly cretins of cognitive confusion prefer to get all bent out of shape over the last section, “6 THINGS I WONDER ABOUT”, because “Ohmigawd, how dare he question Muh Long Beloved Belief System!!”
I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph.
“If an ordinary man, when he is about to die, could only see the five elements of consciousness as void; the four physical elements as not constituting an “I”; the real Mind as formless and neither coming nor going; his nature as something neither commencing at his birth nor perishing at his death, but as whole and motionless in its very depths; his Mind and environmental objects as one—if he could really accomplish this, he would receive Enlightenment in a flash.” (Huang Po)
Concise, uncomplicated and states its case plainly.
Where to start ?
“. A third angel announces that anyone who took the mark is really screwed – being tormented with burning sulfur forever. This endless torture is done in the presence of angels and the Lamb.”
Forever – endless .
Eternal punishment is against the Law.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?95865-Eternal-Punishment-is-Against-The-Law&highlight=Eternal+punishment
Little more stark version of God’s going to cut you down.
Earth to America (and the World): The United States of America no longer exists. The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave no longer exist. The World that is now, has rejected God. The hardship and plagues we have been experiencing are Gods attempts to WAKE You UP!!! What HAS happened is NOTHING compared to the catastrophe that is on the way. No amount of prepping, praying, hoping, thinking, meditating, crying, drinking, positivity, optimism-NOTHING, NO THING, NO THOUGHT, Absolutely Nothing, will halt, stop or lighten what is next. If there be any person that is on this earth who has decided that this is NOT real When God decides that it is time to unleash His wrath, That person will be sent a delusion SO strong, They will actually think that God as Messiah will be on this Earth to begin a 1000 year period of peace and untold riches, health and wealth- the Catch? you must bow down and worship your “god”- who is REALLY the DEVIL in disguise. Once that deal is sealed- Heaven is NO LONGER an OPTION! GOD DOES NOT WANT ANYONE IN HIS KINGDOM WHO WILL WORSHIP Satan.
Personally- I will NOT BE HERE. How can I be so Sure, you ask? Because I have been Saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, and He has such a great love for His Children, that those who are Saved, will not be living through that horror show. Come one, come all- and learn a simple truth: God is not blind to what all is happening. There IS a Heaven and there is a Hell. —-BUT****There is a Blessed Hope: There is freedom in Jesus Christ. Even if this message of God’s goodness and Mercy, and message of Salvation through Jesus Christ, brings persecution, I will count it greater a blessing to have pulled a soul from Hell, than to be silent in fear, and see that soul lost forever in Hell . To have Faith in Jesus Christ, is trusting in His grace to bring you to Himself, to save you from hell. There are only 2 Commandments that we as Christians are to live by:the first is To love the Lord thy God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. the second is like unto this: to Love thy neighbor as thyself. To love someone is to tell them the truth, no matter how painful it sounds, for then the pain can be lessened by finding Peace in Christ Jesus. I myself would want to be told the truth, so I am telling this to you. Time is so short, now.
KNOW that God IS in control. Do NOT take the vaccine or get microchipped, and then also tell others that Jesus is the ONLY Name by which you may get into Heaven; there is NONE other. It is NOW becoming GLOBALLY MANDATORY that all get the Shots. These people who are calling the shots are out to steal your souls!! DO NOT LET THEM! Instead, turn to The Lord Jesus, and call on His name, and He WILL free you from your bonds of sin and shame. Please do not delay.
From the King James Bible; The Gospel according to John:
3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 3:17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 3:19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 3:20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 3:21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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5:17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 5:18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 5:19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 5:20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 5:21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 5:22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 5:23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 5:24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 5:25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 5:26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 5:27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 5:28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 5:29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 5:30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 5:31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.”
We all can see that a BIG something is coming, and that it is not based on our own physical understanding of what we see is happening. It is God’s will. Is not God, He who sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to die for us, so that through Him we may be saved and live eternally with Him in Heaven; is He not greater than anything that is on this earth? Why pay attention to elitists and their empty words of empty promises, all designed to keep you enslaved, so that they may be called “master”? Are they not, every single one of them, murdering, lying, stealing from the masses, bringing us before the Social media platform courts for every tiny infraction, shoving vile and abominable practices onto us and our children, and into society, and onto all people, muzzling us, keeping us in prison, telling us what to eat, telling us that *they* own our bodies, so we must get the Jab? They will be right: to get the vaccine or to be chipped, is giving yourself to become owned/enslaved by Satan. You will be offering yourself up as tribute to the Devil.
If you get to this point and believe, please feel free, as God leads, to pass this message on
Words of truth, taking the vaccine is offering yourself as tribute to the devil, and the word says
Mathew 10:33
but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
Rev 3:10 …my hope is in escape…
BUT
Rms 14:8 “If we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die we are the Lord’s”
Christians live their lives on this earth in view of their eternal existence in the Kingdom of God.
I find your articles fascinating…I go from completely agreeing to completely disagreeing and back again, sometimes sentence to sentence. But you do provoke thought and that is good. A couple of points…
Regarding a non-literal reading of future events, would you propose the same for those recorded as historical? Should we literally interpret the death of the firstborn in Egypt as literal? How about when an angel kills 185,000 in a single night? How about people eating their children while starving during the siege of Jerusalem? And so on… Is something that happened in the past fact and that which will happen in the future not? Did not God plainly tell Israel many of these things were going to happen before they did? When they were still future should they not have been taken literally? God said He would punish Israel. He did. Millions died. Apparently many were thinking that God was not being literal then as well. Granted these are not the “numbers” from Revelation but how does one decide this is literal and this is not. And then, isn’t whoever makes that determination – the person with knowledge to decide truth from “fiction” – make himself or herself God since he or she must have all knowledge to make such determination? (Oh how Satan repackages the original lie – you will be like God – so that many can’t even see what is so clear.)
Why is wrath not a legitimate characteristic of a Holy God? Is wrath inconsistent with holiness? If you have children and someone harmed or threatened to harm them, would you have any wrath? Is not God righteous to exercise wrath on those who reject Him since He Himself took the wrath so that His enemies (note that, not friends, His enemies) would not have to?
Lastly, “What if the real message of Revelation is about transformation, justice, and hope … and not about war, destruction, and despair?” How is it not a message about transformation, justice and hope???? Transformation – new Heaven and new Earth; saints being being caught up with Christ – transformed into His image. Justice – the entire book is about justice/judgment on sinful man and sinful angels. Hope – God is ushering in the day when there will be no more evil, sickness, pain or death. He will remove every source of sin, including the old man in me that is irredeemable and only bent toward sin. (I can’t wait for him to go!) How is bringing about a time and place where every wrong ever committed is righted and a world in which every source of sin and evil is forever eliminated not a message of hope?
I’m going to respond to you in separate posts. First, I generally dislike really long posts. “Just the facts, ma’am!!”. Second, comment count!
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My articles have the same effect on ……. me. Really.
—
That is all I ever want to accomplish.Sure, I will argue my viewpoints. Sure, I generally believe what I say. But, you have never, and will never, see me attempt to evangelize. I’m not trying to make converts. Why would I … what would I have to gain? I shine the flashlight in corners folks may have never visited and, if they agree with what I see there that’s great, and if they don’t, that’s great also.
Well …. it IS! But, I said “REAL” message. Here’s what I mean by that.
What is pretty much the FIRST thing almost everybody thinks about when Revelation is mentioned? Do they think about the first five chapters, the message to the churches? Nope. Do they think about the last three chapters, which is mostly about heaven/new earth/New Jerusalem? Nope.
It’s about huge wars. Death. Enemies killed. Beasts. Blood. Harlots. Prostitutes. Babylon. 666. Demons, devils, and destruction. Russia. China’s 200 million man army. Apache helicopters. And on and on. That’s what we think about. You see that here, there, and everywhere whenever the book of Revelation is mentioned. Every once in a great while someone will respond with a pithy “I know how it all ends, we win.”
My contention is that what we think about most of all, — well, that is the “real” message we take to heart.
First, the lessor reason. Anthropomorphism. For anyone not aware of the term — it is the attribution of human traits, emotions, or intentions to God.
How is God depicted in the Bible? He gets angry, very angry, and even flies into a rage. He gets lonely. He loves, and he hates. He has great compassion. Other times he is vindictive. He makes covenants. He breaks covenants. He has regrets. He has favorites and not so favorites. In the incarnation of Jesus he is afraid and also cries. And what is seemingly his most dominant trait is that he is jealous. An all-knowing all-powerful Being would be jealous of what or whom, exactly?)
God sounds so very very ….. human. How much of what is written in the Bible about God is merely human projection? I don’t know. But, as I said, it is the lessor objection.
==============
OK, I will assume that one of God’s emotional characteristics is wrath.
My objection is the execution, or realization of that wrath.
If evil people deserve death, so be it. God merely needs to speak death, and it will be so. Why the need to torture and torment people? What is holy and righteous about that?? Nothing whatsoever, imho.
Bottom Line: I will never ever (again) believe that Almighty God is some sadistic Being who enjoys torturing His creation in the worst ways possible while enjoying the smoke of burning human flesh wafting into His nostrils. NEVER!!!!
Sorry for the long post prior…and now this one. God states that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked: Ezekiel 18:32, 33:11; 2 Peter 3:9; and probably elsewhere. I read your responses (thank you for your time) and they are well thought out. But then there comes a comment like the last paragraph of the one above. Between me and Christ, Christ is the only one who did anything for my salvation, while I was His enemy. There is no greater love than that! Because that is true, He cannot possibly enjoy the eternal judgment (man is an eternal being) of those who reject Him. One must interpret Scripture and therefore who God is in light of this understanding. I believe with your “again” comment you are referring to an upbringing that presented God as sadistic and you are reflecting upon that? I’m truly sorry if that was the case. I could see if someone was young and was presented with this, it would be very hurtful. I agree, yes, do not think of God like that again. We must remember, God is not sentencing, man is rejecting. Everything God has done was to keep this deserved judgment from happening.
First, I want to say how enjoyable it has been exchanging ideas with you. We agree on some stuff, and disagree on other stuff … perhaps even strongly. Yet, I wasn’t accused of being a Bible illiterate, a moran, a heretic destined for hell. lol This means a lot to me, and I appreciate the civility.
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I was raised Catholic, and spent most of grammar school in a Catholic one. DON’T DO THIS OR YOU WILL BURN IN HELL was a dominant theme.
——
I got up this morning to type my response regarding the question of when to interpret verses literally, and when not. It is a question that Christianity has debated since it’s very beginning.
— At the Last Supper when Jesus broke bread and said “Take, eat; this is my body” was he being literal? That debate has been going on for 2,000 years.
— Christians like to enlist the early Church Fathers as ammunition to support their own particular view. That hardly clarifies anything. Basil, supported a strict literal interpretation of Genesis 1, for example. Origen, on the other hand, preferred a figurative or symbolic approach to large swaths of Scripture.
— Karen Armstrong (I have many of her books) says preoccupation with literal truth is a product of the scientific revolution.
Soooo, my response was already over a full page long when I decided to scrap it. There’s too much to consider to pare it down to a paragraph or two. Perhaps another time ….
——-
I will close with a practical observation. The decision to interpret Scripture literally or non-literally is usually made before the Bible is even opened.
—1) A Believer who views the Bible as the inspired Word Of God will interpret a particular verse in what may be called a “plain sense” reading. What does that actually mean? Well, I think Amy Coney Barrett gave a great example during her confirmation hearing when she talked about how she reads the Constitution … called an “originalist approach”:
Similarly, a Believer will approach reading Scripture in the same “plain sense”, or originalist, manner. I see much good in such an approach.
—2) Everybody else, people like me. A Doubting Thomas? A skeptic? Or, more likely, a questioner-of-everything … regardless of the”inspiration” thing. My friend/foe brian would say I abandon the literal approach when I come across something which offends my philosophical/theological/moral sensibilities … and that I claim a literal approach when it when it does not. I’m an Opportunist!! I don’t like that he says that. He’s very mean to me at times. But, if I am honest with myself, I might have to admit that he is correct. Sometimes.
JEEZ, this is already to damned long!!
To be continued, at some other time ……….
On my lunch break here so I’ll wade in briefly. I try to help where ever help is needed, soooo… Just so you are not feeling left out or missing my friend I give you this…
Why you are definitely a Bible illiterate, a moran, a heretic destined for hell
I give that to you for free 🙂 And I do appologise for being ‘mean’. lol… not really but the reason why is I try to reflect that which is delivered to me. Many will see the absurdity in it and will tone down the rhetoric, some do… some don’t.
Shop time is almost upon us here and I’m going to miss these joists. Until late fall arrives my postings will get fewer but I will put out an advert for a prophet who seeks to harass the great Stucky here on TBP. I’ll try screening them best I can, hate for you to be under persecuted. And I will remember to pray for you.
FYI, I wouldn’t put much reliance on St Peter letting you in because of Me.
My cred is kinda not that great. Ima sinner relying on grace.
Cheers my friend.
I’m sure you know I was just kidding when I said you’re mean to me. You give as good as you get. I respect that. Others have wilted from my well placed barbs …. you do not. This is good.
Cheers right back atchya, buddy.
brian is a contender, ain’t he?
“Why the need to torture and torment people? What is holy and righteous about that??”
Transgression of the Law [ 1 John 3:4 ] is it’s own punishment.
God is teaching us to not torment and torture ourselves.
I will answer your final question about literalism tomorrow.
I got up early, I’m tired, and my mother is making a LOT of demands this evening. I need a break from all this.
A poster named “TLate” graciously informed me that this article appeared in NaturalNews. com. I responded and am copying it here for posterity. The direct link is;
https://www.brighteon.com/3b86c65d-1165-4873-81bb-c129537ba478
================================== =
SERIOUSLY??? wow. I love that site!! I wonder if I can get a discount on some natural anal lube?
All kidding aside, that’s way cool. Thanks for letting us know. What the narrator says;
— “And then also today we’re going to talk about God’s Great Reset. And I’m borrowing that title from an article, a really outstanding analysis article that appeared on TheBurningPlatform.com, it’s a great site and I recommend it. …. it nails down the actual Biblical estimates of how many people die …. I think it’s very educational …”
.
Hey Brian!!! STUFF IT, BUDDY BOY!!!
LMAO… rent free… AND… helping you get your all important numbers too…
Hey, buddy, I am giving YOU all the credit for this glorious turn of events!
You PRAYED for me last night. Aaaaand look what happened!
(I’m sending you an invoice for rent / $300.)
Just got in myself from an afternoon of slog’n it… dog tired and sore as smeg… otherwise a great day.
Not sure what events turned, hopefully for the better. I did pray for you yesterday afternoon and this morning, asking for a good and productive day. I always ask God to reveal himself to those I pray for in some way.
Sent the cheque yesterday… Ima prophet , you forget?!?!?
Saint Peter: “Sorry, Stucky. I don’t see your name in the Book of Life”
Stucky: “Doesn’t matter. My pal, brian, fervently prayed for me.”
Saint Peter: “Oh! Well COME ON IN!!”
Thanks, brian. Really.
I read TBP daily and your article was hidden, I found it only because Rapture Ready linked it to Natural News to God’s Great Reset……………….hahahaha here you are not knowing that your article hit a Rapture site……..I sure hope you read the book I posted to one of your comments…….I consider myself a recovering Catholic………..it’s just that above you mentioned you were raised Catholic and the hell and damnation growing up if you did this or that……………….so works based……………..anyway Stucky – I hope you don’t stay STUCK – I have posted quite a few replies on this thread today, hope you take advantage of some of them……
That is too WEIRD!! Ummm, WHY would they do that??? LMFAO
Thanks for letting me know.
I’ll check out links you and others posted later this evening. Been a helluva day. I posted this elsewhere but my mom almost burned down the house today. Really. Making her supper now … it just doesn’t end ….
Hang in there my friend. Its a hard slog. My wifes parents are both 98, this year, and until last year we did everything for them. We bought the house next door 14 years ago to because the mind was good but the bodies starting to fail. We did all the yard work, cleaning, errands, driving etc etc… you know the drill. Plus I’m the chief cook’n bottle washer so I’d make dinner for both houses.
Up until last year they lived in their house. Both were taking falls and my wifes mom broke four ribs on her last adventure. So I said they gotta get out until we can put in ramps and chair lifts. They went into a seniors independent living place. NOT a nursing home.
They have 24 hr security, no stairs to take(elevator) top floor so they can see far’n wide. Cleaning staff, full cable package, plus meals. We suggested they sell their house and we’d buy a rancher large enough to house us all. They liked the meals there… so they said ‘nope’ and stayed… sigh… I guess they liked the chef’s cook’n better’n my gruel…
Anyrate, we still do their appointments, driving miss daisy everywhere. Hearing aids and today picking up dentures. There are many days when its like dealing with a five year old, the cognitive levels are dropping quickly as is mobility. But I made a promise and we’ll stay to the completion of it. So hang in there, and I’ll pray for you with more wisdom now.
Added: Just so I can add some God this and God that…
Galatians 6:9
And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.
Well the folks at RR follow Natural News and the article title I am sure was provocative enough to post on their news feed, so a lot of people saw the link to your article…….Yeah I read that earlier about your mom almost burning down the house……….I know I had my mom too……..you also said you have been studying Revelation for decades…………..then I think you would really benefit from the stuff I posted – it fills in a lot of blanks, or not depending……………..when you get time…….
Wow, what a shallow interpretation of Revelations. Eschatology is not one of your forte’s, please leave the book of Revelations to the theologians. I will agree with you on the obvious point you did make, there will be a lot of death and mayhem after the rapture of the church, which takes place between the 6th and 7th seal. You must include in your study the following passages Matthew 24 Mark 13 and Luke 21 along with the Apostle Paul’s prophetic writings in the NT and OT authors such as Daniel, Ezekiel, Zachariah, Joel and other prophetic scriptures in conjunction with Revelations to get a concise understanding and interpretation of the book. Fifteen minutes is no where near long enough to discuss the topic.
I’m surprised you didn’t throw in a couple of Dan Brown books also.
No, I do not have to include it. So, I didn’t. Revelation can stand on its own.
People like you love to unnecessarily complicate Scripture to the point of absurdity. I understand why people like you do this. It is because it is necessary to “prove” your incredibly complex eschatological imaginings. One needs a degree in Un-logic to understand it.
It is hard for me to believe this is how God communicates.
Then again, what do I know …. YOU are the theologian in da house.
Hey Stucky – congratulations – your excellent article has been picked up by: https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-03-24-situation-update-mar-24th-gods-great-reset-surviving-the-tribulation.html
🙂
It’s impossible to understand the book of Revelation unless you’ve already read the other prophets and understand what symbolism is being employed and which parts are referencing other books of the Bible. Also, unless you understand the ancient places and the geography of them then you have no idea of the areas the Bible is talking about. In addition to that… sometimes the words used can have more than one meaning…. like when the translation “in the whole world” gets done, sometimes if not most times that word being translated is “erets”, which can mean, “in the land”… not the entire world….
I’ll give a few examples:
Earthquakes may be literal but, in most places, a great shaking or an earthquake is describing social upheaval.
Birds or unclean birds are always referencing spirits or demonic spirits. A mountain is always a kingdom…. A perfect example of this is Jesus saying: “if you have the faith of a mustard seed, you can move the mountains”…. This wasn’t just a phrase, he was saying something.
Many times water is referring to peoples of different nations speaking different languages ( we know this from the book of Daniel for example where an Angel describes a vision to Daniel )..
A Beast is a kindom or nation…. sometimes, it’s a or ruler ruling a nation. A horn is a leader of a country.
Really, a short summary of Revelation is this:
In the end, 10 countries headed up by one leader will go against Israel and almost destroy it and God himself will come and put an end to it and set up his kingdom.
The beast in chapter 17 and 18…. the beast is described as having 7 heads and 10 horns… these images are used also in Daniel… It’s also described as having 7 mountains, which are 7 kings… .where 5 are fallen, 1 is and 1 is yet to come…. this was written during the time of Rome.
So, the 5 that are fallen ( which are kings and kingdoms )…. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece…. one is, which is Rome ( at that time ) and one was still to come… which was and is ( Islam ).
The beast with the head wound is Islam which was destroyed in WWI and the empire was divided up…. ( but the headwound heals in the future )…. The beast that comes back to life is an Islamic caliphate that forms up with 10 countries to come against Israel in the end of time.
The harlot is Mecca ( it is described as a city )… it’s the whore spreading Islam throughout the world. The false prophit is the next Caliph that will be ruling the beast with 10 horns or countries. Mystery Babylon is Mecca… It’s called mystery Babylon because it mimics the Babylon of old where they had to stop what they were doing and worship the image in ancient Babylon when the music played…. ( that is exactly what Islam is doing now…. the entire world of Islam faces Mecca every day, 5 times a day and worships an image in Mecca )
Revelation is the most challenging book in the Bible for sure.
Now, if you look at what Islam believes…. it’s a mirror image of Revelation where the good guys and the bad guys are reversed.
Now, even among Bible believers, lots of people come to different conclusions and many don’t take looking at the end time seriously. So, I expect to probably get challenged on what I just wrote but, it’s ok.
You might like this too……
Stucky I think you would enjoy this……..
The one thing missed about this ridiculous article – CHAPTER 1 VERSE 1. The book was about the “THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS!” The book of Revelation was a book describing – in further detail – the exact same things Christ prophesied from Matthew 24. And, in Matthew 24, He said, TO His disciples – as clearly as anything ever written in the Bible – “Verily I say unto you (Jesus TO His disciples in the first century), This generation shall not pass away TIL ALL THESE THINGS BE FULFILLED.”
Nice post …. except for the “ridicules article” part.
You sound very much like a preterist. Welcome to the club.
One of the very best books ever published on the subject is “Days of Vengeance” by David Chilton. But, who has time to read a 700+ page book?
Uh…There was a misquote of scripture in the article, the author got it backwards
Matt. 22:14 …many are called but few are chosen
I’ve listened to a fair number of Christians of various sorts talk about the Book of Revelation, and they have had wildly different interpretations of it, or wildly different predictions of what will happen and when.
Not wanting to rile them up, I refrain from asking them if they really believe John of Patmos was a Prophet of God.
I could never bring myself to believe that he was, and I think this is a fundamental question.
The Gnostic writings of Peter, on who Jesus said his church would be built, while not being deemed fit to be included in the Bible (by Constantine’s tame Bishops), is to me a much better source than John of Patmos.
It’s true no one ever claimed Peter was a Prophet, but, according to the Bible, Jesus did say Peter would be the foundation of his church.
Peter is not the foundation.
““But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah!b For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
The fact that Jesus is the Son of God is the foundation.
Peter = pebble
it’s the worst informed article I read in a long time. If you don’t know God you shouldn’t be discussing the things of God. Oh, and NIV is NOT the Bible.
Heywood Jablow Stucky.