A recent post of mine touched a nerve with a TBP regular. I have been gone a couple of days and only recently read the comment thread. This is his comment in full.
Llpoh
I stopped reading when xrugger laid this moronic turd: “The fact that modern day whites have absolutely nothing to do with the perceived injustices of their past“.
Yes, modern whites had nothing to do with what happened in the past. But the “perceived injustices” part ranks right up there with the stupidest shit ever posted on the site.
There is nothing “perceived” about it. Native Americans suffered enormous injustice, equal to any suffered by any people ever. and the repercussions of that echo through their society today. They were treated monstrously, and their populations were decimated. They were enslaved, murdered, raped, forced from their lands, killed by the thousands on the various Trail of Tears. Not one treaty of the hundreds made with the Indian was ever kept.
I have said many times that the Indians must move past it all., and must take responsibility for their plight, and that all welfare money they receive needs to be cut off.
But comments like that, putting “perceived” in front of injustice, in some form of attempt to suggest that the injustice never happened, or is a figment of the Indian imagination is some serious fucked up bullshit.
Xrugger should be ashamed.
I have been having an internal debate on how, or even if, I should respond to your comment. I was initially dismayed at the possibility that my use of the words “perceived injustice” with regard to the many despicable events in the history of white/native relations may be unfair given the realities of the past. I even considered that you might be right and that I ought to be ashamed for trivializing the horrors experienced by Native Americans during the course of their long defeat. However, the more I thought about it, the more I began to realize that such a response has become nearly the “go to” reaction for any white faced with the present day roar of never-ending outrage. With that said, here are a few of my considered responses to your comment.
First, my reference to Native American’s in the piece was only a small part of the overall message of the essay. The use of the modifier “perceived” was intended to convey the idea that injustice can be interpreted differently according to the particular viewpoint of those involved. One man’s injustice is another man’s justice. I am certain a medieval heretic beginning to smolder at the stake would find his position extremely unjust, while those that put him there believed that he was getting no more than he deserved.
Likewise, I would suspect that a white settler in America whose home was burnt and whose wife and children were raped and butchered at the hands of natives would view the destruction of the perpetrators as just. Those same natives would view their actions as simple retribution visited upon those who were unjustly seeking to destroy their way of life. Both would be right. The point being that justice and injustice have been concepts perceived differently throughout human history depending on who is riding the horse and who is being trampled.
Second and this is where my irritation kicks in. Boo F***ing, Hoo Llpoh!! Cry me a damn river. Point out to me, if you can, a race of people in the entire history of this troubled world that has not experienced the bludgeoning of its hopes and dreams at the hands of a conqueror. The understandable fact that you would see your own people’s travails as intensely personal comes as no surprise. I am sure it comes as no surprise to you that I find the historical injustices inflicted on my people intensely personal as well. No race has escaped the ravages of history. Destruction, rapine, and genocide are a part of the human story and no one people has a monopoly on historical outrage. Not. A. Single. One.
My guess is if you took the time to compare the injustices perpetrated on 19th century Native Americans to the injustices visited upon 18th century Scottish Highlanders, you would find them strikingly similar. Both had their way of life, their music, their dress, their language, and their very means of survival first proscribed and then destroyed. Both were driven from their ancestral lands. “Perceived” or otherwise, what makes your brand of injustice any more bitter than mine?
Third, the current anti-white cry-babyism that permeates the political and cultural atmosphere of this country is both unfair and unjust and holds within it the seeds of yet more destruction, more suffering, and more injustice. It is high time that all people who continue to wallow in self-pity and historical victimhood stop laying the sins of the fathers on the backs of the sons, stop scraping their historical sores with the potsherd of current grievance, get up out of the ashes, and build a life for themselves.
I am not the enemy. Neither are those who look like me. The real enemy is the notion that the wrongs of the ancestors can be righted by inflicting pain on the descendants. That is the club being used against my people even as I write. It is a cudgel wielded by the powerful of all races who would see both you and me reduced to a common denominator of slavery.
Fourth, with regard to anything I have written on this subject and others: I retract nothing. I apologize for nothing. I am ashamed of nothing.
It really does depend on what side of the fence your on. The Romans conquered and were eventually conquered by the Vandals.
The diffence being, when the people’s were conquered by the Romans they received new roads, bridges and water. When the Romans were conquered by the Vandals they had the copper torn off their roofs.
The Romans didn’t provide “new roads, bridges and water” for the benefit of the conquered. It provided Roman military infrastructure and faster tactical response in defending their expanded Empire.
Also, slightly off topic, you might read Emmet Scott’s numerous accounts of the Barbarians ruling the Western Roman Empire better than the corrupt Roman rulers and improving the lives of everyone including the ‘conquered’ for about two centuries before the Barbary (Islamic) pirates destroyed Rome’s complex logistics and navigation on the Mediterranean Sea thereby depriving Rome the grains of North Africa, Egyptian papyrus, etc. It was lack of protein that led to starvation and social breakdown and lack of paper for books caused by Islam, not the Barbarians that ushered in the Dark Ages.
Curious, I plugged the name of the author you cited in your comment on Amazon in an effort to find a book about what you cited above and could not find anything. Could you provide a bit info? I’m very interested. Thanks.
Thoughtful and well stated with a refreshing lack of name calling and rancor.
Thanks for that CC
I concur-points well made.
CC, it is an unwritten rule of TBP that LLPOH first stated, the author of an article should be polite to commentators on his own article. It is ironic that Timbo gets plaudits for observing LLPOH’s rule. Then again, the most excellent irony was when Stucky used 804’s own arm-span analogy to instruct Card.
Dig it. Most are not even aware of the Highland clearances. Some of my ancestors arrived as slaves due to this feature of history. Oddly, and maybe appropriately, my great Grandfather on the maternal side was half American Indian. Thought to be Kiowa band of Apache because of time & place but I could never find the documents as the Courthouse had burned down many years before.
Yes, perception is key to this. As I am sure that the English and lowland Scots who slaughtered the Highlanders, raped their wives and sisters, burned their homes & barns, and carted them off to Gaols and slave ships felt justified, many having had the same done to someone in their own family at some time in the past.
History is so very interesting. We are living it now.
let’s not forget the Irish potato famine
One cannot (and should not) judge those who came before us and their behavior by today’s standards. One can look back at “the way things were” with a critical eye, learning, and vowing not to repeat the mistakes of the past.
There were many justifications (actually excuses) for slavery, none of which would “fly” today (rightly so) but were considered valid in their day. Even certain Christian sects condoned slavery with the proviso that they “were bringing souls to Jesus Christ away from heathenism”. This was seen as “justification” enough.
However, there are downsides to some of today’s social and cultural norms.
The imposition of so-called “civil-rights” acts and legislation comes to mind. While well-intentioned, these laws actually did a disservice to the concept of true “civil-rights”. Demanding that whites change their social norms at the point of federal troops with bayonets (1957) did much to poison the concept of true “civil-rights”.
Forcing integration did much to harden attitudes that whites had toward not only blacks, but government in general.
American blacks were coming into their own, many proving by their own behavior that they could live in a white-dominated society.
The passage of these “civil-rights” laws changed all that. Gone was the God-given right of “freedom of association”, but only for the white majority.
Minorities were (and still are) free to exclude those not of their own race or culture even in cases of “freedom of association” and “public accommodation”.
The concept of civil-rights “protections” have been expanded to cover homosexuals, cross-dressers, people with all types of aberrant behavior and conditions, (soon to be covered) pedophiles.
The idea of responsibility for one’s own actions was eviscerated as well, minorities given “excuses” for their criminal behavior, blaming it on “racism”.
White heterosexual males are of the only “group” that is not entitled to “protections” under the so-called “civil-rights” laws. The excuse used nowadays is that since us whites hold political and social power, (yeah, right) we are the only ones who can be “racist”.
The passage of “affirmative action” laws cemented the idea that blacks could not make it on their own merits, but needed “help” which was enforced by government fiat. No longer would merit be allowed to be used to determine competency for education or employment, especially when it came to blacks. (The Griggs v. Duke Power Supreme Court opinion effectively outlawed the use of aptitude tests to determine suitability for employment).
Social and cultural practices that were commonplace in the past would be seen as barbaric and unjustified today, with good reason, but we are still living under the cloud of one-sided “civil-rights” laws whose proscriptions apply only to whites.
For one, I am PROUD to be considered “racist”. When I am so accused, I respond enthusiastically, while attempting to shake my accuser’s hand. The confused, dazed looks and disbelief on their faces is priceless.
Anarchyst- never stop commenting.
I feel what you are describing is the typical, divide and conquer, approach. The issue of the American Indian is in itself tragic and yet inevitable. The largest enemy the American Indian has is one, him or her self and the BIA whom habituates them to believing they are victims. The minorities in this country are all being portrayed as victims. We are victims of weather, car crashes, shootings, ethnic or racial innuendo and many other word smithed attacks. I see our schools K thru 12 including colleges and universities teaching cultural divide. We are in many cases not teaching our children to critically think, respect for a chosen God, respect for rule of law and love of country. Instead we teach Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Slothfulness, Vanity, Envy and Pride. This is in my opinion an infection that is spreading to all areas of our society. The working class now has unlimited social support, the farmers have been on social support since the late 1800, they are now working on our military in my opinion. The health care for our warriors is just lip service but the infection is sold as a saving grace. Folks we are being ruled and managed. We are a socialist governance and not a republic at this time. If we were to follow our Constitution we would not have the bloated DC elite we see today. Just my opinion
With the world population at 8 BILLION I cringe at the thought of the coming bloody injustices which will befall upon us all.
Well,I am mostly of Nordic bloodstock so guess am guilty of a lot of crimes of me ancestors in regards to raiding/pillaging ect.
Of course,have a tiny bit of Maori in me also so suppose I should get a set of keys to a casino.
I was born in the United States and thus consider meself a native American.
I suppose I could just not worry about all that and all the other things that are used to divide citizens in this country with hate laws/affirmitive action laws/age laws/,well,you get the point,all the things powers that want to be use to keep citizens divided and thus not seeing and dealing with our real enemies.Eh,that would actually require thinking and work,screw it.
I wish I had time to play, today. I can’t wait to check in this evening to find out what kind of shit flinging this started.
My Canadian-French great-grandfather left my 14 year old grandmother in the middle of Kansas with extended “relatives” after my great-grandmother died. She was kept in indentured servitude until she married my grandfather at the age of 19. She was a beautiful woman. She never talked about her past, ever.
Most of us have sad stories in their past, personally and as a people-group. This “hate whitey” thing is just an excuse to facilitate more genocide, this time against white people in general instead of a certain nationality.
Very well thought out reply and thank you for not letting it go. I am a “let it go” type of person but if we keep this up, we will “let it go” until we are all gone.
It did not inspire a lot of banter, other than that between X and L. I suspect it is because we sense an underlying issue we are not quite privy to. (I just realized privy and privilege are from the same root.)
I enjoyed visiting this blog, as many others do, to read the comments and banter in the comments. Quite often, the comments would take on a story life of their own, with memories of who said what on what post becoming common memories for a large number of TBP regulars.
There was a season after the thumbs got popular when some people seemed to draw an inexplicable number of downthumbs for no apparent reason, but that ability has been greatly curtailed by some site modifications and updates. The thumbs do not bother me at all, since they can be ignored or hidden fairly easily.
There is a certain amount of longstanding bitterness that permeates the platform. I suspect it has to do with issues and topics discussed long before any of us showed up and said “boo.”
Tim. I too like the way that you responded. I liked it because you made one central point very carefully. You might get a reply, who knows, but in the end, it is not usually a successful strategy to respond to negative comments. The discussion tends to devolve into “I’m right” and away from meaningful comments that inspire learning.
You inspired learning.
Together as we spar and watch those better than ourselves go at it, we all learn and become empowered by the labors of others. And is why I keep coming back. May we never be quelled in our quests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqqEvnZ8I28
I have always liked Big Injun Chief even when he would tear my head off while posting. It did motivate to learn some of the History of Native Americans in the West. There have been many wrongs or evils done to Native Americans in the past just as evil has been done to whites. This is an evil sin cursed world. This is where and why forgiveness must be given . If not this resentment turns into hate which only leads to more pain and suffering But this forgiveness must be given by both sides.
I also see how just being born in America is like winning the lottery. No other group of people have done more to right the past and give decent treatment to other races then white people. Whites have nothing to be ashame of . Whites have produced the best societies on the face of the Earth where all people can have the hope of a better life.
I am not ashame of anything nor do I feel guilty about the past . Having said all this Big Injun Chief is one of the people on this blog that I would like to meet someday.Just to have a beer together . In this world or the next.
bb,
are you sure there’s beer in the top part of the next world?it will sure give me inspiration to live a better life if you say it’s so–
What goes around, comes around. The plight of the Native Americans, will be the same fate as White Europeans in a few more years…
The standard rhetorical device used by LLpoh and so many others is to apply modern day (current) sensibilities to events of the past…. eg. Columbus is a racist etc. Nonsense. The treatment of native Americans was in the context of the time probably less violent and murderous than it could have been. Entire America was conceived in the original sins of slavery and genocide is nonsense. The white Europeans who originally came to America where mostly religious refugees being severely persecuted in Europe. Of course, they had no idea that their diseases would devastate native populations without prior exposure to smallpox or other “bugs”. Shit happens. Native Americans had many admirable traits but lacked the technology and cohesive culture (they fought each other constantly) to oppose the tidal wave of whites. Shit happens.
Nobody is perfect but let’s not move the goal posts of judgment by applying today’s ethos to yesterday’s reality.
“Of course, they had no idea that their diseases would devastate native populations without prior exposure to smallpox or other “bugs”. Shit happens. ”
I hafta agree with you in total however there is evidence to suggest much of it was intentional biological warfare. Blankets as gifts bearing bugs…
An effective way to eradicate vermin and pesty people with pestilence
Martel – you are a fuckwit. The majority of people at the time understood what was being done to the Indian was a crime. They were not unaware of what they did. A lot of them just did not give a shit.
Being Irish/Northman some of my ancestors were undoubtedly perpetrators and some victims. Throw in the idea that every single one of us likely has a rapist as an unknown ancestor along the line and it is obvious we are all just people with the same foibles and strikingly similar histories.
As this is about the American Indian’s “perceived injustices” I can say with certainty that it was a different story with each. Some were victim, some were aggressor. Some were noble and some were scum. Many were neither.
Here in Northern Illinois was where Aztec and Iroquois clashed in a medieval clash of civilizations. Mounds remain and 1,000 years or more back they say Cahokia may have been the second largest city in the world.
At the time of the Revolution, cities with tens of thousands were on the Illinois River. Pontiac (The Conspiracy of Pontiac) was murdered in a tavern in Southern Illinois. In revenge warring tribes destroyed the Illini towns and many died of starvation on Starved Rock near Ottawa, Illinois where they were surrounded on this rock escarpment overlooking the Illinois River. At this time they were only a handful of white men in the entire territory, mostly French in Kaskaskia in the far south on the Mississippi across from Missouri.
George Rogers Clark leading a contingent of Continental troops from Virginia took Kaskaskia from the British and Illinois became a county of Virginia.
The local Indians had been allied with the British receiving tribute and money from Detroit. When the Sac & Fox (Sauk) later sided with the British again in the war of 1812 they were placed on the official shit list culminating in the Blackhawk War in 1832 driving them out entirely, eventually winding up in a reservation in “Ouisconsin.”
Blackhawk’s grandson was equally famous. The Olympic champion and professional athlete Jim Thorpe.
This is a mere thumbnail of events. Alliances, property and POLITICS were involved much more than the “winners” ever wanted posterity to know about.
Llpoh makes a perfect point, that none of you are addressing. Changing history is what liberals do best. X, you didn’t respond to his critique. Holocaust denial was his point, in this case against the Indians. Didn’t ask for anything in return. Just wanted the historically accurate point to stand. White men can only be discriminated against if they allow it. Buckle up buttercup. We still run the world
The Washington Post published this delightful essay the other day. Forget for a second the maniac who wrote it. Put yourself in the shoes of the guy she was venting against. How did he end up in this position? What will his life be like going forward from this moment? I’m sure he didn’t choose this. Not so fast, of course he did. He aided it, he abetted it, he nurtured it. And it just came home to roost. Is he a victim? Of course not. And how his life turns out going forward will be in direct correlation to how he responds. He has no good choices. But he has choices. Our enemy is not the unwashed hordes. Our enemy is not the grievance mongers amongst them, leading the charge. Our enemy is the cucks that enable this sort of thing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/10/12/thanks-not-raping-us-all-you-good-men-its-not-enough/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.eb30194e35b1
Good Lord! Just goes to show a cuck can never be enough of a cuck to satisfy a c-unit bitch.
I read the crazy lady’s essay and have to wonder how many slugs of good Scotch her husband has before facing a discussion with his wife.
I get what she is saying. Some 14-year-old tried to get some upstairs outsidies in a dark corner of the gymnasium and it embarrasses her to think about it now because that guy grew up to be her minister. And while she suppresses the memory that it felt very exciting to let him touch her nipples while she fondled his muscled backside, she can’t help but be angry that every time she’s in church she has to think about it.
She is guilty of what we all must guard against: Perception is everything. Where is the evidence.
We really must adopt a DROP IT; LET IT GO; MOVE ON approach to the wrongs which are completely subjective. That is probably MOST of the ISMs.
Amy has nothing to do with the topic, but her voice is a favorite.
every woman over 25 yo should have to read that essay that star posted–
if they agree w/it they should be given the choice of being sent to a mental institution or a “moderate”muslim country–
“Don’t tell me how to FIX this, I just want you to listen to me complain!
Don’t just sit there and listern to me complain, I want you to FIX this!”
I didn’t see Xrugger deny anything. He affirmed the terrible way many American Indians were treated. He made a case of “mans inhumanity to man” in general.
The need to place blame and push guilt is also part of our nature.
Mary – his use of “perceived” was moronic, imbecilic, without intellectual honesty.
And he is not man enough to admit it. There was nothing perceived about it. And the people of the age knew damn well what was being done to the Indian was an abomination.
No treaties were ever honored? Ha. You should come to Washington, Idaho, Montana, etc. where there are Indian reservations by the hundreds, and big ones at that.
As for what was done against Indians consider what they did amongst themselves and then to the settlers. Vicious doesn’t describe it. The “perceived” comment simply refers to which side of the horror you were on.
Bigfoot – how many times have those reservations been reduced in size? For instance, the entire Black Hills were supposed to be part of a reservation. But no. Fact is, every single treaty ever made with the Indian was broken entirely or in part.
The Indians were warlike. They were never genocidal. Your ignorance is showing. Re the settlers, why did they attack settlers? Could it be because they were starving on the rez? Or because they were being invaded?
“They were never genocidal”. How do you know?
Which of your verbal histories carries that claim? If a tribe massacred every last man, woman and child from another tribe, who would know now? ENTIRE TRIBES have vanished from the earth, due to disease, warfare, bad water, no food, whatever – how can you say none of the vanished tribes ever genocided another?
Sorry, can’t buy it – no evidence, no survivors, no records, no way to know.
Nothing new under the sun. The entire history of man is filled with ever-changing genocide via the conquering of lands. Survival of the fittest. Guess what? Life is not fair!! How is it any different when a little child develops an incurable disease? What about when the lowly farmer has a tank drive through his living room? Or the homeowner whose house is demolished for a pipeline under ’eminent domain’?
I am certain that within my ancestry, there have been both those taking advantage as well as those that have been taken advantage of. Does that make me a criminal or a victim?
Watch 1000 year changing map of Europe:
Some days you’re the pigeon, some days you’re the statue.
Doc
We didn’t do anything to the Indians they weren’t already doing to each other. We’re just better at it.
If North America had been settled by Muslims or the Chinese, rather than Europeans, there wouldn’t be any Indians around to complain about their ancestors being treated badly. They would be completely gone.
Where did the “Indians” come from? They weren’t “from around these parts” either. DNA studies suggest the western tribes had mostly Asian DNA while the eastern tribes had mostly European DNA.
Regardless of any of that, land always winds up in the possession of those willing to kill for it or kill to keep it.
AC – your ignorance knows no bounds. The Indians fought, raided, and were certainly not very civilized to each other.
But they were not genocidal in any way. That was what the white man did. And they full well knew the wrong of it. It is public record, and was debated many times in Congress.,
Sure.
https://www.science20.com/news_articles/the_most_violent_era_in_america_was_before_europeans_arrived-141847
If we are ever to evolve into a just society, that evolution will only be possible by our courage to face the truth regardless of how uncomfortable that truth may be.
Yes, as a nation, we committed genocide upon the Native Peoples of America. We did it for immoral reasons, and without regard for their rights as human beings.
We need not fear the truth, we must embrace it. We must face it. We must learn from it. We must study our own demons and face them if we are ever to defeat them.
To attempt to justify them by illustrating the immoral actions of others is a weak attempt at logical fallacy and shamefull for an educated man.
“To attempt to justify them by illustrating the immoral actions of others is a weak attempt at logical fallacy and shamefull for an educated man.”
Except that isn’t what xrugger is doing at all. He simply pointed out the reality of the human condition (in totality) as a response to someone who was selectively choosing the facts they wanted to present. Admitting that humans are scum is not the same as using it as an excuse to continue being that way. He never excused the behavior, only admitted that it exists everywhere, in every society.
Also, if you think humanity will ever “evolve into a just society”, you’re sorely mistaken.
Matthew – bullshit. His “perceived” comment was meant dishonestly. There is no other way to use the term as he did. He actually used the term to mislead. And as I have mentioned, he is too dishonest and dishonorable to recant.
I can see your education never progressed to the point where you studied logical fallacy, and you therfore struggle with being able to seperate truth from fiction. You also do not seem to believe in evolution, perhaps you believe God created this cespool on purpose…..
Jesuitdog.
What’s all this ‘we’ shit? Who is ‘we’, cause it sure ain’t me.
You write like a true communist/socialist believer:
“The CPSU program said that self-criticism allows the nations of the USSR to spot problems and hardships and to find the best ways for Communist development. Self-criticism was necessary in one-party states because it allowed for criticism without questioning the ideology.”
Only idiots jump to unfounded conclusions. I am in fact a Libertarian which is as far from communism as you can get. The truth is not to be feared by anyone except possibly the phycopaths who must conceal their true agenda. Lying is self distructive because it can only be maintained by continually creating more lies until your entire society cannot tell truth from fantacy. Kind of like what we have today. Anyone who believes a lie can be justified or results in a positive outcome is a moron.
Libertarianism is very much like communism as they are both based on nirvana fallacies.
History shows that a form of tyranny like Affirmative Action will not end until the victims are either vanquished or they end it victoriously by force/war; when White Men go on the Warpath again, it and it won’t be pretty.
For me, the modifier was the word “modern” and “perceived” was redundant. But I’m one of only so many words full of irony and wonder.
Sometimes, it just is what it is and that’s all there is. There isn’t any more.
Yawn.
The cracker did nothing worse to the injun than they did to one another.
Doesn’t make whitey right but it’s a fact nonetheless.
Ivan – glad you are such an ignorant slut. You have zero knowledge of history if you believe that the Indians were as destructive to each other as the white man was to the Indian.
Whites were just plain better at it, that’s really the only difference. Natives in the west were more sheltered from warfare and its developments.
It was too steep a learning curve and ancient blood rivalries prevented the necessary collusion.
Welcome to the party.
Your knowledge of history is pathetic. The Native Americans were thriving prior to the arival of the Europeans. Within 200 years millions of people were eraticated by genocide.
In fact, the genocide of the Native American is one of the largest genocides in history.
We should have picked out own cotton.
The land had to be stolen first to pick the cotton…
I had a friend whose crepe myrtles were stolen from her driveway, pulled up by the roots. So, you could steal the cotton without the land. Technically.
Is a lot of work to steal cotton, though. Crepe myrtles too, come to think of it. They grow like weeds here.
Xrugger – you are a dishonest cunt. You are without honor. You use an entire article to try to cover up your intellectual dishonesty. You used the words “perceived injustices”. You know, as do we all, that is a damn lie. There was nothing perceived about it. And you are not man enough to admit you were wrong.
Instead, you obfuscate, and talk about injustices done to others, etc., as though I do not know it is the way of the world. That does not make it right, and it sure as hell does not make it right to suggest that the injustices were not real. They were real, and they were done intentionally, and the people committing the atrocities by and large knew what they were doing was wrong.
You are right that I take this shit personally, but not for the reasons you think. I take any shit that denies the reality of a people being abused personally. I despise what was done to the Irish, and have spoken of that many times on this site, and would have said the same thing to you if you had said the “perceived injustices” of the Irish. Or the Scots. Or the Jews. Or the Aboriginals in Australia. You were denying the reality, and you were trying to mislead those reading. Your attempts to suggest that somehow I take no notice of the wrongs done to other peoples, or that only wrongs done to the Indian matter to me, is dishonest. It is a trend with you, lying. You are a liar. And you do it without remorse. So you are likely a psychopath as well.
The worst thing I can say about a person is that I have no respect for them.
I have no respect for you. You are dishonest and cowardly. You mislead intentionally and when called on it, you post a ton of crap that addresses everything but the point that was made – that the injustices were not perceived but were in fact absolutely real.
Your argument is childish and reminds me of Serena Williams – they get away with it, so it Aunfair if ai do not. Every people gets slaughtered, so “cry me a river”. That is fucked up and bullshit, as you well know. No peole should get slaughtered, and no honest persn should stand by while someone says that what happened ws not an injustice, which is what you did.
You could have responded to my comment at the time. Instead, you chose to do this. It is despicable.
You are not worthy of respect. You are without honor.
Llpoh,
And you sir, are a grudge-holding, tantrum-throwing jackass. What could you possibly think you know or understand about me that would justify such an incendiary personal attack. In your paranoid delusions, you assume that every word written that does not confirm your opinions or support your world view is an excuse for personal insult. The simple fact that you seem to think that your respect is something I would need or desire and that withholding it is somehow of any importance to me (or anyone else for that matter) is evidence of your over-inflated ego.
Just exactly how in hell could you possible know what I meant by the words I used? Are you a mentalist of some sort? Do you have some connection to universal truth that escapes the rest of us? Rant and rave all you like. It won’t change what I wrote into something you think I wrote.
X – you made several mistakes. First, I never think it appropriate to call out someone in an article. That is inappropriate. You could have responded in the comments section of the article. Call me out in such a manner, and then act surprised that I respond as I did? You must not be the smartest tool in the fucking shed. You poked, and the bear roared back.
Second, you used the term “perceived injustices”. If you do not know what words mean you should not use them. And yet still you ask how do I know what you mean by the words you use? And they have clear meaning. If you meant other than the clear meaning of the words, you could simply have said so, preferably in the comments portion to your original article.
Third, you lie, obfuscate, mislead, and cannot own up to mistakes like a man. You make several misleading statements about me, attributing positions to me that are untrue and incorrect. I made some of the same points you made above in my responses to your previous article, but you chose to ignore that and twist my position. That is dishonest and not honorable.
And hence, due to these things I deem you a liar, dishonorable, cowardly, and not worthy of respect. You may not care, but those things I do not say of a person lightly. Next time, show the sense God gave an ant, and leave me the fuck alone.
‘There was nothing perceived about it. And you are not man enough to admit you were wrong.’
Percieved. To achieve understanding of; apprehend.
The injustices were perceived. The author wasn’t wrong.
Just an idiot – perceived is belief and not fact based. His usage is clear, otherwise he would have just said injustices, not perceived injustices. There is no doubt about it, the facts are clear, and perception has not a damn thing to do with it – great injustice was done to the Indian, to the Irish, the Scots, etc.
‘perceived is belief and not fact based’
Tell us then, how ‘modern day’ people can comprehend the ‘facts’ of the ‘injustices’ if they are not ‘perceived’. You got twisted over a non issue because you wanted attention. The author was right to call you out. Look at those thumbs down on your comment.
L,
You really are one myopic, self-absorbed individual aren’t you. You seem incapable of realizing that none of this dust up is really about you.
As far as “attributing positions that are untrue and incorrect,” you might want to re-read some of the garbage you have spewed about me and others. You’re a sniveling bitch when you don’t get your enormous ego stroked. What was it you said…oh yeah, “You poked and the bear roared back.” It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
You’re mad for being hauled out in public for being the name-calling prick that you are and then you whine and want to be left alone. You started this. You attack me the way you did on a page three thread and then expect me to let it go. I don’t think so.
You and Justin O. Smith ought to get together and talk amongst yourselves.
X – I shit bigger than you. Yes, it is a fucking disgrace to air a personal beef in an article. That shows a lack of class, which is unsurprising given your lack of honor. You had ample opportunity to reply to a comment on your own thread, but no, you had to go show your ass.
You compound your bullshit by lying, and follow it up,lie after lie, attributing thoughts and positions to me by inference that are untrue. You say the article had little to do with me, then go on to say you were pissed and would not let it go. So which is it, you lying piece of shit? Make up your fucking mind. Either the article is not about me, or it is a vendetta. Which is it, you cowardly cocksucker? You cannot get your story straight, because you lie so much.
I barely scratched the surface of calling you out with my original comment. You have since shown your true self – lying, cowardly, two-faced, dishonorably, psychopathic. You even admit to standing by your positions no matter what, right or wrong. That is not evidence of a mature adult. I have apologized many times on this site, and own up to errors. How about you, big boy? Nope, not you, by your own bragging admission. You are not here to learn. Shame that, as that is TBPs main function, in my opinion.
I have had a lot of fights over the years on TBP, but I have never called someone out in the body of an article, using Admin’s forum and good graces to carry on some kind of vendetta. That is chickenshit.
You are not worth a bucket of cold piss.
I’m unsure how defending something I have written without descending to the level of personal insult is “airing a personal beef.” Making a formal response to a rude and unnecessary string of insults over a statement that you personally find offensive does not strike me as out of bounds in a forum such as this. A thing is not so simply because you say it is my friend. Your continued and increasingly insulting rants about it seem a bit unhinged though, especially when they are directed wholesale at an author you really know nothing about.
I don’t like it when I allow my buttons to be pushed to the point of personally insulting anyone. That sort of behavior is something I aspire to rise above. For my part, I do apologize for the personal insults I directed at you in my last responses.
Time to move on now. I have a busy week ahead.
Oh spare us the lecture Jesus boi.
you aspire to rise above and then are gracious enuf to spare us yet a few moar minutes from your busy week to drop yet another turd on all this..
But as you say you are sooo much better than the rest of us.
In yer defense tho ya just can’t help it. Can you…
For it is written.. and you are good soldier..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oYY0eSZZco
have another carrot rabbit..
Rins,
What my personal faith has to do with any of this is beyond me, but you go ahead an get into the mud too. You really must not think much of yourself given your obvious need to pull others down.
Also, exactly when and where did I make the claim that I am better that anyone. Again, your inferiority complex is showing. It’s ok. Is suspect you’re a decent person. However, you may want to take note that offering an apology for rude language or behavior is not evidence of arrogance.
Welcome to TBP, Timbo. A fantastic wonderland where, as Sensetti observed, people discuss a discharge from your mom’s vajay as a matter of natonal security. Thus, RiNse’s rebuke.
wrong you just did…
quit casting aspersions on decent people..
annnnnd you’re welcome!
Yours by the Good Grace of Odin,
RiNS
Oh spare us the lecture Jesus boi. you aspire to rise above and then are gracious enuf to spare us yet a few moar minutes from your busy week to drop yet another turd on all this.. – RiNsE
Sorry, I thought it was a put down.
Kitty
The Viking DNA causes me grief when it comes to nuance.. I was trying to be facetious… oh well. But you’re right it wuz a put down… anyhooo…
I’ll try harder to be a good shit monkey…
Llpoh, the fact is that an injustice doesn’t exist until it is perceived just as the color blue doesn’t exist until it is perceived. Def: to become aware of, know, or identify by means of the senses.
When we say injustice, we assume that what we are referring to IS PERCEIVED. The only question is whether the perceived facts, which are in dispute, fit the cultural definition of the term, injustice, and that’s purely a subjective matter.
It is no ‘faux pas’ to state the obvious to what is understood. Llpoh, your thinking that ‘perceived’ as a metaphor representing a mental state of denial in abeyance of what you perceived as obvious facts is a colloquial assumption.
You came to the understanding that “perceived injustice” as it was used means that it is up for debate as to the facts and you have made the judgement that it is not.
Each of us perceives things differently based upon our belief system and you have no obligation to accept the beliefs of others base on their belief system (how they perceive reality). So, what may really be up for debate are not the fact, what ever they may be, but rather, the belief systems of others.
I find no objection to Tim’s use of “perceived injustice”, perhaps, redundant.
Homer – then a simple explanation of that would have sufficed, don’t you think. Pretty sure I offered him the chance to clarify, as did at least one other, in the previous article. Words tend to get their meaning from the way they are used. He used perceive as “belief”, in a way suggesting that they were not correct in such, and there was no point to doing that. It is far beyond a belief, it is an indisputable fact.
If the native Americans would have been armed like the white European were I am sure things would have turned out differently. And this is true everywhere the Europeans went. The Spanish raped and robbed everywhere they went and the Jesuits made sure the booty was transferred to the king of Spain. Captain Cook was killed by the Hawaiians because of his hubris against them.
Europeans are war mongers. They have always been. European History is a history of crime everywhere they went. Two world wars in Europe testify how bent the Europeans are on war.
Now that Europe is being overrun by Muslims their war mongering is coming to an end.
Native Americans were plundered under a government ruled by British influence. The revolutionary war never won true independence. If you think we are free from England think again. We today are ruled by Administrative Law. What is this law and who practices it? Administrative Law is Admiralty Law; the law of the sea. And who are the ones that practice it? The BAR. And the BAR originated in England.
Llpoh has a compelling complaint. A free people wiped out by a corrupt government who’s motive was to take over a continent and plunder it’s resources using an immigrant European population running from the oppressive governments they were forced to live under. And after over two hundred years the same oppressors have stripped the freedom of the people who now occupy this land by Administrative Law administered by the BAR.
xrugger really opened up a can of worms. Read the Declaration of Independence and tell me if our present government doesn’t fit into all those complaints about the King in that document.
Thunderbird sez, “Europeans are war mongers. They have always been.” Hoo Haw! The truth be told, mankind is a war monger. Race, ethnicity not withstanding we are all guilty past and present.
The riches of others is just, too, alluring to not try and steal.
Homer have you been anywhere in the world?
“I’ve Been Everywhere” Man! “I’ve been everywhere.”
I have a spiritual bent on mankind and his history. Yes, injustices are done and have been done, but they are not done with impunity. There is a spiritual law of the Universe some call Karma. It is–you experience in your life what you create in the lives of others. It is perfect justice for every injustice. It is God’s justice. How else can you grow spiritually unless you, yourself, experience the injustices you fostered upon another and resolve to act differently. That’s truly what it’s all about, growing spiritually, not acquiring a Tesla or a 100′ yacht although that would be nice.
I carry my past with me just as you carry your past with you. I can see where my past has influenced this life, immensely. All my suffering has been of my making. The biggest mistake is that people think of Karma as retribution or punishment. Nothing can be further from the truth.
Karma can be what we term ‘good’ or ‘bad’. There IS good Karma. It is God’s Law, it is the Law of Love and Love is Good. How could it be otherwise from a loving God.
This doesn’t mean one can stand by and watch injustice and chuck it off to bad Karma. There is a spiritual obligation to stand for justice in the face of injustice. That’s what Love is all about.
By the way, I’m still trying.
Reminds me of Rock Hudson in the movie “Giant” where he and his wife and Mexican daughter in law go in to a cafe and the owner wanted to deny the daughter in law service because he just don’t like there kind, but because of Rock Hudson allows her to stay.
Another Mexican family come in and is denied service by the owner. Rock Hudson stands and challenges the owner as he see an injustice in the refusal of service by the owner and they get into a fist fight and the owner beats Rock Hudson and while Rock’s laying on the floor throws a “right to refuse service” sign on Rock’s chest.
Rock Hudson lost the fight, but I think he gained by his stand for justice. So, did Rock’s wife think so.
Because of greed or envy?
A kinda missed this so my apologies to llpoh.
So today I went for drive to my Hometown of New Glasgow . You see my family traces both in written and unwritten lore the accounts of why my ancestors ended up here. Indentured and enslaved, they were forced from their lands, killed by the thousands. And the lucky ones sent far away to the Land of Trees..
and yeah those injustices are hardly perceived. They are a fact….. Wouldn’t you agree?
Of course you would because you deflected in a ham handed attempt at minimizing another genocide committed long ago and far away. So your argument is shit happens and folks need to move past and get on with it… Sad part is lloph agrees with that. That isn’t his fight here..But you are just too thick to see that.
He is pissed off because you, xrugger, have used the mealy mouth term “perceived injustice” as an end run to deny his History. So you are a denier too! And…..
generous in your contempt..
Yeah I am tired of Natives digging in my pockets looking for payback. We live in a culture that puts premium on oppression. Too many have taken the embrace of the victim as their super ego. It is, as you offhandedly suggest, not a great prescription for leading a successful life. I agree with you but you are harping to the wrong guy rugger. For fuck sakes! The Chief is by all metrics a success in life. An exemplar that he summed up in his moniker for Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness..
What you did here rugger was a chickenshit move. And the icing on this turd is you deflect and talk about the shared history of the Scots to make light of it all. I must congratulate you on being so good at being righteous in deflection. But the worst move is you made this personal by making it a standalone post. I did the same some years ago. I now regret doing that. But that is another story…
Hopefully you will reflect and see the error of your Bitter Reality…. Contempt is toxic to hold and you sir have it all over your self. This post was off side, not very appetizing and
Not a very Christain thing to do… not that that matters
Time to repent or Odin is gonna give your beer to me!
Reading thru thread again I like my odds.
So thanks!
Slainte!
RiNS
Rob – thank you. I care little what most think around here, but such as you, Stuck, Star, EC, Admin, HSF, BB (truth be told) and apologies to many others not mentioned but thought of fondly, your thoughts and positions mean a lot to me. I know I am on the side of light when you support me. When you don’t, you are just temporarily misguided! ?
:}
Thanks lloph! Your words as with those you mention, and yes I too include my trucker buddy beebs, mean a lot… and of course with apologies to the many others not mentioned…
temporarily misguided.. that is a good way of putting it… tho in my defense it is happening less these days.
Lloph The Native American genocide was the most dastardly operation conducted by the democratic US government. Second Place was FDR’s internment of the ethnic Japanese US citizens during WWII
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/30/united-states-destroyer-of-nations.html
The above article and the three related articles listed below give a very graphic account.
So I have not been around TBP long enough to understand what the sin was.
Was it the use of the word percieved?
Was it that X called out Llpoh in a post using his name?
I don’t see that X minimized the actions against the natives. In fact he said that there had been grievous offenses against them (my words not his).
Perception is a “feeling” that is heart based. It has been said that perception is reality. Do you believe that is true?
Shoot all of your arrows at me but I think both Xrugger and Lloph are right because that is my perception.
It is also my perception that my back is against the wall now and as a white Christian of Western European descent, I am not going to apologize for the sins of long dead persons who may or not be related.
Hmmm….LLPOH said ” They were never genocidal. Your ignorance is showing.”
Hmmm…LLPOH…ever read about the Crow Creek Massacre ?
Buck- there were around 500 killed. North America had perhaps tens of millions of Indians at that time. It was a massacre. But genocide? Such as described by Roy and his article? Hardly.
If not for white man’s affirmative action, Loopy would still be squatting in a mud hut, picking fleas out of his ass hair. He should thank God that white men risked it all to come to this land and save the land and the savage from the catastrophe that was what some like to call “civilization”.
The delirious angry mob infects even TBP. The herd of lemmings have spoken.
Personally, I think both Llpoh and xrugger make valid points …. points that go BEYOND the use of the word “perceived”.
As such, one would expect either disagreement (thumbs down) or agreement (thumbs up) to be roughly equal. But, that is not the case. Llpoh (bad Injun!!) gets overwhelming downs. And xrugger (the paragon of virtue) gets ups up the yinyang.
This is strange because Llpoh’s original comment — the one xrugger copied and pasted here … got 10 thumbs up AND 10 thumbs down! As expected …
But, now, Llpoh saying basically the same exact same thing is pilloried. A thinking person would say … “WTF is going on here???”
Then again … neither lemmings nor the mob spend much time thinking.
xrugger
Just curious ….. why didn’t you respond to Llpoh’s response to your word “perceived” in the original thread?
What was your real goal for waiting several days and them calling him out in a separate post?
Maybe he thought the kinder, gentler LLPOH had gone soft. Heck, LLPOH didn’t even use his 20 mm cannon. Hey, Tim, try praising Andrew Jackson.
He said he mulled over it. It kind of tough to admit the truth to yourself. So he had to think hard about how to answer a basic question. If somebody questions your honesty, it should not take a day or two to come up with an intricate explanation. You either are or are not.
Kittens,
See the above response to Stucky’s question. I work for a living and have family responsibilities so can’t spend all my time on TBP. Also, I actually said I had an “internal debate,” not that I “mulled it over.” Small difference, but important I think.
Internal debate is engineer-speak for mulling it over. LLPOH has one button, maybe two, and you pushed it. Then you acted surprised when he pushed back. You know this is TBP, you have to watch yourself here; people are looking, reading, analyzing. I thought you would have learned something after Yohimbo got castrated for publishing anti-Semitic alt/history articles. Now he wears a funny pink hat and write paeans to pussies.
Stucky,
No mystery there. I was out of town for a couple of days celebrating my 4 year old granddaughter’s 5th birthday. Several reasons for the separate post.
First, the reason for the separate post was that by the time I read the comment thread, it was already on page three and I wondered whether he would even read it.
Second, I felt that the issue was important enough to warrant separate treatment, not only to respond to Llpoh, but to clarify my intent in using the terms I used.
Third, I was irritated and not a little pissed off to be the target of yet another name-calling diatribe by Llpoh. I know that sounds a bit childish, but as you may have noticed in the Justin O. Smith dust up awhile back, (which you were a great support in by the way and I appreciated it then and now) I don’t like to have my thoughts stolen or my intent misinterpreted.
The amazing thing to me is the continued belief by several commenters (Llpoh first and foremost) that they can somehow divine my intent. That’s like claiming to know the state of another man’s soul. It’s impossible. I’m the only one who knows what is in my heart and mind when I write. For anyone else to claim otherwise is extremely arrogant and foolish.
What I have learned from this is that I need to work even harder at being extremely precise in the terminology I use. Perhaps (and only perhaps) the use of the word “perceived” was vague and open to misinterpretation by people like Llpoh. However, if one were to excise that word from the post, I don’t believe it would change the validity of anything that followed.
I hope you read this and I hope is answers some of your questions.
I did read this and, yes, you clarified much.
Things were getting a little bit to civil (boring!) for the past couple of weeks. Personally, I NEEDED (cuz it invigorates me) to see some hurt feewings, name calling, bitterness, anger, and all the colorful metaphors only available from The Burning Platform Curs. Brought tears to my eyes. THANKS for initiating the festivities, and your continued participation. You are truly “one of us”.
xrugger
Wow. Just wow. You took a mighty big effort to explain away your use of the word “perceived”. You have many fan-boys and girls who believe your explanation.
I am NOT one of them.
You used the phrase “perceived injustices” in the 3rd paragraph. Your explanation in this thread of your intended meaning of the word would hold water except for two small problems; it is what you said IMMEDIATELY PRIOR and IMMEDIATELY AFTER. Let’s take a look;
============== =
1) Here is you sentence immediately prior;
2) Then comes your “perceived” comment;
3) Here is you sentence immediately after;
============== =
You set up your “perceived” comment by saying the Native American poor “really really hate white people”. Then you let us know these same people wear un-dentable “victim armor”. They don’t even wear it well but, rather, like a “perverse badge of honor”. Then these same people are accused of wallowing in “self pity”. In other words, you state your dislike for these people quite clearly.
Now, nicely packaged between those remarks is the fact that you said the injustices these same people have (the ones you just railed against) is …. what? Real? No! Actual? No! It is … “perceived”!!
You can deny it all you want (and, you will) but a NORMAL reading of what you wrote …. and that means NOT just the one word in question but, rather, also the entire CONTEXT …. will leave most readers the impression that Native Americans did not suffer real injustices, …. only perceived ones.
Shame on you for trying to cover up what you really said.
This attitude is part and parcel of the modern view that conquered lands and their former inhabitants are lucky they were invaded by folks bringing civilization at the cost of many lives but, hey, progress.
Some moran above reflected this new version of history with the meme – we should have picked our own cottton – as if Indians had also been brought over as slaves to pick cotton.
That’s what they told the Indians, you’re lucky to be here. – doc Pangloss
Stuck just obliterated the smokescreen of Tim’s cover-up artists. He’s guilty and so are they by association. But they’ll never admit it. Poor MC is paralyzed by ambivalence. Pick a side, MC, fight like a man!
What? He has no response? You have ruled rightly …. I DID “obliterate” him!
Nope. Still here. Un-obliterated and un-killed by the heathen! That’s a reference to a line out of the movie Braveheart and meant in a light-hearted fashion, so I hope no one freaks out over it as some sort of slight to pagans or other such foolishness. I trust we’re not yet at the politically correct/thought police stage at TBP, though early on it was suggested that I “recant” which is odd language to use on an ostensibly free speech website.
Sorry for the delay in responding. I have a life outside of this place.
recant Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/recant
recant meaning: 1. to announce in public that your past beliefs or statements were wrong and that you no longer agree with them:
Thanks, Stuck. That is my point all along. He also used the words “ the perceived injustices”, not “their perceived injustices”.
There is zero doubt he was saying that they had not suffred injustices. And then he follows that with this load of hogwash.
The thumb count is interesting, but not surprising. Bad Injun!
Stucky,
Let me make this as clear as I can. I do not, for one second, claim that Native Americans did not suffer injustice. Anyone who would make such a claim is ignorant of history or incapable of critical thought. My intent is using the word “perceived” was clearly explained in the response post. I don’t know what else I can say. The purpose of the post was not to “cover up” anything. In fact the purpose was to “uncover” the intent of what I wrote. The fact that Llpoh jumped all over me for the use of one word is indicative of how thin-skinned he is on this or other similar subjects. The context of both posts make clear what I believe and I know what I intended to convey. Everyone else is absolutely free to make of it what they will. No one, however is free to attack me in the most rude and vulgar fashion without pushback.
On the original thread my response was barely a love-tap. I said you laid a moronic turd, that is was some stupid shit, and that you should be ashamed.
That is not a personal attack, especially by TBP measures. It addressed what you did, not who you are. Who is being thinned skinned. However, because of this article, and your ridiculous statements and flat out lies, I now have commented about who you are. And who you are is not worthy of my respect.
You create an entire post, naming me specifically in the headline, and now say it was because you did not have time to get back to me in the original. Forget the fact that I post almost every day, and you could have found me on any thread.
What a load of shit. You do not have the brains God gave an earthworm. Your judgement is appalling.
Next time you have a beef with me, do it in the comments, where I am easily found, and leave my name entirely out of your articles, you dimwit.
Llpoh,
Actually, I never said I didn’t have time to get back to you in the original thread. I said I was out of town, and by the time I returned it was on page three, and I didn’t know if you would read it. Check the comment again and try to accurately read it. I know that might be difficult for you.
Also, you may want to do some research on what constitutes a personal attack. The language you use alone is the very definition of personal. It surprises me that you don’t understand the totality of the concept since you engage in such low behavior so often.
You’re really not that bright are you. Oh, and don’t flatter yourself about the possibility of your name being used in anything else I write. You were a one hit wonder. It was fun while it lasted. Now bugger off.
X – you are too stupid to even know what a personal attack is. Here, I wll give you the definition:
personal-attack. Noun. (plural personal attacks) Making of an abusive remark on or relating to one’s person instead of providing evidence when examining another person’s claims or comments.
I commented on your comment. But as I have said, you are an inveterate liar, without ethics, and are undeserving of respect.
Re me not being bright, you are a massive dullard to even suggest such a thing. I have an Ivy league degree, an MBA from a top university, studied at King’s College in the UK, and overseas in Spain. I have won a list of named academic scholarships. My accountant introduces me to his colleagues: “this is the genius I have told you about”. And these things I did as the son of an illiterate Dustbowl Okie Indian. Just what the fuck have you done, dickhead?
You take lying and squirming to new heights. I bet you are a Clinton. Your mother know Bill by any chance? Bet she did.
Llpoh
X-man. Quit while you are ahead, you will not get the last word unless you die soon after. LLPOH is a wonderful person but he is also a mean ass fighter. Lesser folks will surround you like a bunch of Chihuahuas making a lot of noise but LLPOH is more of a wild cat, he will rip you apart but leave you alone once you quit messing with him. He will be like that drill instructor you hated but secretly admired like your own dad. He will always leave you an escape route and he plays fair. By fairness, I mean honesty. Others here may stoop to slander and unjust accusations, LLPOH will only attack the cancers and boils of your logic or misinformation. You’ll see and you will learn. Too bad Maggie never got the LLPOH treatment, it is an immersive lesson in real world writing and debate (and it’s free, no tuition loans to repay ever).
Hi EC (dats u, right?). Truth be told, I have no major animosity toward Xman. He used, per my perception ?, three words in combination poorly. I gave him a swift kick, as is the TBP way.
My problem is he then uses an article to get vengeance, which is chickenshit, then he changes his story more than that woman Ford did in pusuit of Kavanaugh, and he has not been man enough to just say I should not have been so careless with the words. In the original thread I think I even suggested maybe that was all it was, as did others.
Nope, xman doubled down on stupid, and even made the extremely stupid claim that he stands by everything he writes. It is an especially dim bulb that does not leave the door open to learn and to correct errors in thought or presentation.
I will keep track of xman going forward. Not my general disposition to hold grudges. It does not pay off. However, those that lie and misrepresent what I say do tend to hold my attention. Flash is one that does that, for instance. But generally I let bygones be bygones. It is only words, after all. But xman has not behaved honestly, nor honorably in my opinion, and seems quite proud to be willing to hold onto his positions and not be open to learning a damn thing.
I am one of the more aggressive souls here, for sure. But I have apologized to, among others Admin, Stuck, Rob, HSF, etc. If I cannot own up to mistakes, own up to those times I am an asshole above and beyond the call of duty, etc., then I am not developing as a human being. That is my lifelong goal – to get better. The definition of better is open to interpretation, but I keep trying to define it.
Thanks for your input. You are a TBP treasure, you just may not know it. You offer some great insights, and some turn of phrases that are illuminating. Glad you are around.
TBP University, still the best low-cost school with a liberal admissions policy.
“Let me make this as clear as I can. I do not, for one second, claim that Native Americans did not suffer injustice.” ———- xrugger (aka, Earthworm Brain)
Alrighty, then! That’s all cleared up.
If Newbies ever want to know what TPB is like, this particular thread should be used as One Very Good Example. I mean, for fuksake …. we had a mini-shitfest over what? “Perceived!!!”. In other words …. ONE SINGLE FUCKEN WORD!!
Heh heh! Gawd, I love this place.
So-called “indigenous people” engaged in slavery, torture, human sacrifice, and even attempted genocide for centuries in this not so aptly named “native land” of theirs. What these sub-human scalp-hunting cannibals did to each others tribes was the very definition of pure EVIL. For them to have the nerve to even think about spreading filthy damned lies, murdering cut-throat bastards much worse than any “white tribe” could ever be. Furthermore there was no “nation” here as is arrogantly and erroneously claimed. Just a bunch of hate-filled brutal savages roaming around the countryside murdering each other and anyone they could get their filthy blood-drenched hands on. Tell the truth about yourselves you lying pathetic losers and stop blaming the White man. There was a war, and you lost. Get over it, Tonto.
Well, I see that idiocy is alive and well in tbprag. Guess he knows little about white man history. What the whiteman has done rivals any atrocity committed by any people at any time in history. Guess the Inquisition, burning at stake, mass murder, starving of the Irish, Scots, etc., drawing and quartering, etc ad naseum were historical events he missed at special school. Guess he ws too busy eating boogers to learn anything.
First of all, you did say “Modern White Americans” which says that we are paying for the sins of others perpetrated long ago. Second, the white side of me is tired of being labeled the only bad guy when still half of the world embraces slavery today, and nobody is “still” blaming the Africans and Native Americans who originally enslaved each other, and the Europeans who also got rich off slave trading. White America was the first society in the entire world who publicly proclaimed slavery horrible when it was the norm, and thousands of “White Americans” have died to make freedom a reality for everyone…which the democrats want to destroy with a subsequent dictatorship or oligarchy under the guise of “Modern Socialism” transformed. As far as blame goes for decimating the Native American population, you can thank one person who is the consummate racist…Democrat president Andrew Jackson. I am part Iroquois Nation (Seneca) and I am careful who I blame for our history, good, bad or indifferent.
Llpoh, you are truly brainwashed, unread, and stupid. (stupid – ignoring true facts to maintain an ideology or agenda.)
Llpoh, you are truly brainwashed, unread, and stupid.
Squanto, you do not know LLPOH. You are a Massachusetts half-breed same as Senator Pocahontas. As she admitted, the tribe decides if you are a real Indian. What tribe has given you any recognition?
We still like you, Timbo, I don’t care what Yohimbo says about you.
Thanks EC. It is, interestingly enough, Yo that got me into this mess. Not sure whether to thank him or hate him. I do know that I’ve written more since he outed me than I ever have.
X says:
I will say, Tim, that I act as my own prosecution and defense for every essay before posting.
It’s a tough crowd here.
If I don’t cover all of the angles, then I am biased, or naive, or perceived to have an agenda. The same if I miss a certain perspective on any specific angle.
At the same time, if I try to be everything to everyone and advocate all sides to every equation, then what’s the point? We are, after all, entitled to our opinions.
For the most part, spelling and grammar errors are not tolerated as well.
One time I wrote about Marshall Mcluhan, but didn’t include enough about Edward Bernays. Another time I truncated a quote too much (in the opinion of one reader). And, more recently, one particular commenter disagreed with my use of the word “collective” in the title because it held special meaning for him.
Just keep doing your best, own whatever you write, stay humble, and learn from any criticism. It’s all in good fun.
You submit the articles, we will take care of the rest; you will get flayed and filleted.
Thanks Doug. I’ve been feeling a bit run over by this one, but I’m damn sure not going away. As Horton the Elephant so wisely said, “I’ll stay on this egg and I won’t let freeze. I meant what I said and I said what I meant… an elephant’s faithful. One hundred percent!”
Not sorry. Not done.
Just mentioned to Uncola it is an interesting debate to watch from the sidelines.
It was Truman Capote who said writing was kind of like taking a blank piece of paper, putting it into the typewriter, then slitting your wrists and bleeding onto the page.
And, he wasn’t even talking about feedback. At least in the olden days, when you sold/published the story, the feedback from readers was delayed at least long enough to recover from the writing.
Now, with instant feedback, there’s no time to recover, is there?
This particular debate on tbp is interesting to watch from the sidelines. And, it is also ironic that the points of view all revolve around the use, meaning and context of the word “perceived.”
And, now, I will shut up.
Meg – these type things are oft best watched from a safe distance. They can get very ugly. You simply would not believe the stuff that used to happen here, and which still does on occasion. In the old days, there was a fellow named Smokey that would scorch the earth, along with Admin, Stuck, a guy named RE, AWD, SSS, me, and a host of others. This is calm. Really.
People would get monumentally pissed off and no holds were barred. Every thing we could use we would. We were, and still are, expert at twisting the knife and using every psychological advantage we could find.
Maybe Admin will post the “he should have ducked” thread again sometime. You simply would not believe how it went.
When would the words, “perceived injustice” be warranted? Maybe when what is perceived by one party is different than what is perceived by another party. Or, more likely, the idea is that the common perception is flat-assed wrong. Is global warning a perceived fact?
Anyway, with regard to Indians Stefan Molyneux pretty much refutes Llpoh’s perception of what occurred with the red man:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNHKDJzgqJg&t=1906s
BIgfoot – you want to be specific? Just tossing out the bullshit that this video refutes my perception is bullshit. What happened to the Indians is well documented. It is enshrined in history, in treaties, in Congressional record.
That video seems to say most Indians died from disease, the guy says 75 to 90 %. I do not dispute that. He talks about smallpox laden blankets. There is inly one case that is universally considered to have happened intentionally.
If you consider that there were millions of Indians before the white man, and disease killed 90%, that still leaves hundreds of thousands dead for other reasons.
I never said Indians were peace loving angels. I said quite the opposite. But they did not try to wipe each other out.
US govt policy was generally to entirely eradicate or relocate any tribe that opposed the grabbing of their land. That was official policy, and the results are widely known. The slaughters, the famine, the exposure to elements, the relocation, the taking of Indians as slaves – these are not perceptions, these are facts well documented.
You post some moron with an axe to grind as though it is actual scholarship. Even the most basic search will turn up volumes of history written by true academics, complete with sources, not some idior blogger with no background and who is known for claiming a lot of stuff that is easily refuted, and who does no actual research.
This stuff is known in spades. Get a clue.
Let’s take Arizona for an example. There are 22 tribes there, all of them living on ancestral land. Yes, less of it, but Indian reservations constitute 28% of the land in Arizona. Does that sound like genocide to you? Where I am in Washington state, you can’t go ten miles without seeing a sign for a reservation. It’s incredible. The Indians here go clamming and salmon fishing when the white man must stay home. Treaty rights give Indians the right to enormous quantities of the fishery.
At the state park here on my island I see them bringing barrels of clams to their pickups and barrels of Dungeness crab. They net salmon on the rivers by the tens of thousands of pounds. Genocide? No treaties honored?
There is no denying the atrocities. As an Indian I would have been bitter, too, at losing the buffalo, the lands, and the freedom to roam. Corruption in Indian affairs was widespread, yet there was compassion as well for the Indian. Settlers and others who were made to suffer horribly at the hands of Indians grew to hate them and did want to exterminate them. That does not mean genocide was practiced as a gov’t policy and all the reservations attest to that.
Interesting, for sure.
Meg here.
This one works, I believe. It was a better place then.
Perhaps there was still HOPE.
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2012/08/31/a-phone-booth-mountain-lion-barbed-wire/
I brought this one and may bring others I glimpsed one to Stucky which was LOL… the thread is priceless.
“LLPOH—-No sarcasm was intended. According to Webster’s Dictionary, charm is defined as “a trait that fascinates or delights”, and is also defined as “a physical grace or attraction”. Of course, the essence of my being is not typically perceived as readily by guys as it is by gals. People that know me well typically refer to me as pussy magnet, because of my movie star good looks. And it is difficult for me to associate with large crowds of people because of the women. As soon as they see me or hear me speak, they all want it. Usually, the hottest babes think they might get lucky and get me into bed. When they find out how long the waiting list is, they then start to throw money at me, you know, bribe me into the sack. Sometimes, when I refuse some of the beautiful ones who are unaccustomed to being turned down, they threaten out of anger. I keep my own security detail with me at all times because I am so concerned that some of these rejected hotties may attempt to rape me out of uncontrollable lust. One other minor disclosure is in order here: The only thing that exceeds my good looks is my brains.”
I have no idea what this was about but it made me laugh…
“robertsgt40—–If you weren’t such a moosecock sucking piece of festering shit, you would know that the like/dislike have never worked properly since Day One here, including today. But sick dimwitted retarded douchebag mongoloids like you LOVE to jump to conclusions when there is NO fucking supporting evidence whatsoever. You have 9/11 down EXACTLY like you have peak oil down. You may well be the stupidest mother-fucker ever to post here, and that is fucking saying something, because we have had some deranged, psychotic fools babbling on this site. Eat shit, asshole.”
I think I found it. Placed a few comments from Old Smokey below.
Oops… above. Meg here.
That was a different time and place here.