Guest Post by Hardscrabble Farmer
There is so much wrong with this presentation, so many obvious flaws and fabulist conflations it would take all day to point them out. It is definitely a revelation, but not in the way they were hoping. Please feel free to correct the record if you actually believe that anything in this recording bears any resemblance to scientific reality.
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What’s the period about? It’s becoming a regular thing, I don’t understand the significance of it.
it is a singularity…
Anonymous originally typed — “Are you fucken RETARDED, or what?!!”
Then changed his mind cuz you have a bum foot.
Still can’t understand why he fell outta the tree..
I mean, him being a flat earfer, there is no such thing as gravity anyways.
He shoulda just willed himself to fly..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb-Nacm-pKc
The tree was also flat.
But HF himself has much roundness; a round head, round arms, round legs, round eyeballs, and so forth.
Now, in Flatland when a round object touches something flat then the round item just disintegrates. It’s like matter vs anti-matter in Roundland.
I thought you knew that? You missed it by that much.
HF is not a flatlander.
umm ya he is
for those of you who are flat earthers,the flat earth society is mounting an expedition to antartica,you can go along if you pay the $–
https://www.news.com.au/travel/world-travel/antarctica/flat-earthers-plan-incredible-trip-to-antarctica-to-reach-end-of-the-world/news-story/0a2e9079e5dba11d56c95590e18dafa3
we should start a gofundme and send beebs…
i’ll throw in $10 if he promises to post pics–
i wanna see what a real wall looks like–
Boy did that bring back memories of high school…
You can read the mind of some random anonymous dude?
I know what your thinking, did he fire 5 or 6 shots?
you’re
The varmit is having a tuff day..
O2H instead of H2O
and
your instead of you are
or
you’re
You are so right my dear friend Farmer – reality is what you perceive it to be, nothing less.
HSF a flerfer? I’ll pay no attention to that sociopathy, my Jesus created a globe.
Have you actually seen it? The globe I mean? That would be enough to convince me, but alas, none of us has had that opportunity and the ones that allegedly have lost their credibility by lying in an official capacity- for whatever reason. And one thing I do know is that even if a liar is telling the truth about something, I have to dismiss it out of hand based on that history.
A quandary, itz.
And no, I’m not a Flat Earther, I’m a “I Don’t Know What Shape or Sizer”.
Knowledge requires more than just accepting what we’re told. It must be experienced personally, filtered through our own senses and shaped by our own understanding of things that have been proven to be true.
It may very well be a globe, but there are a lot of “scientific” pronouncements that simply do not hold up to the math or the theories that serve as the foundation for that belief. That’s where I part ways with the official narrative. More importantly I am not invested in it’s shape or it’s dimensions, my life works just fine without that knowledge.
And if anyone gets anything out of my conspicuous hostility towards authority it’s that they should trust themselves first, those who have earned your trust second, and all others on that sliding scale. Authorities in the current era have demonstrated their enmity to those who do not accept their version of reality, and it’s rarely predicated upon open and honest debate and inquiry. By default they occupy the lowest rung on the trust ladder. I wish it weren’t that way, but it wasn’t my actions that created the environment of mistrust.
RELATED NEWS: Scientists Release More Images of Alleged Black Hole
(Reuters image below: Physicist peers into the abyss)
That reminds me of my ex-GF, I don’t know what I saw in her. It was icky but I couldn’t identify it.
EC, If you close your eyes and imagine it might feel good.
Theoretical physicist: The universe should contain N amount of matter, according to our theory.
Observational physicist: Nope, our observations only show N – n amount.
Theoretical physicist: …ummm, how do we account for the missing matter. I know let’s put in a fudge factor & we’ll call it a black hole. X + Y + ~n(bh) = N There, that’s fixed, our theory is correct.
Observational physicist: We’ve spent billions looking for ~n(bh). Still can’t find one. We’re in danger of losing our funding for black hole searches.
Theoretical physicist: Let’s CGI one.
Black holes: Enititlements / public schools / affirmative action /illegal immigrants.
Black Hoes: On the corner.
We’ve become cynical because the establishment can’t seem to tell the truth about anything important, so it’s easy to believe they’re lying about this, too, but I have no basis to declare this fake.
I do know that if they make a movie of this, the five white men on the stage will become a black man, a black woman, a Hispanic woman, and a disabled Asian woman, with just one token white man, who didn’t really accomplish anything but bullied his way onto the dais.
Good comment.
And maybe, in the early decades of the 20th century there was an–institutionally enforced–notion that only white men could or should do science. A false notion to be sure.
But the backlash has brought in such absurdities that they really are beneath contempt. Like the notion that the only reason white men succeed at anything is “privilege” or that science would be “better” if it were “run” by women and minorities or, the biggest absurdity of all, that science itself is just a product of the “patriarchy.” FUCk!
I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating. Take Albert Maysles quote that states “Tyranny is the deliberate removal of nuance” and expand it just a little further…any society that can no longer think, speak or debate in nuanced ways is both ready to be and deserves to be under the yoke of tyranny.
I do believe you are ‘ready’ to become a hollyweird producer …
Here’s your black hole….
Jesus Christ….
What have I done in releasing the Kraken!
And here’s what you’re gonna need to get ‘er done afterwards…
I haven’t watched it all, but I’m not picking up what you are. They’re looking at an object in the sky, using independent equipment that is seeing the same thing. That IS science.
I am certainly not convinced by the Standard Model of physics, nor entirely convinced that General Relativity is either a) and accurate explanation of how the Universe operates on a grand scale or b) the ONLY explanation of same. It is certainly not a COMPLETE explanation. As I understand it (and I am no mathematician), there are 2 singularities in the equations of General Relativity….these can be thought of as places where the equations no longer work. Think of an asymptotic curve….the black hole is what’s on the other side of the asymptote. Here’s the real bitch of the matter…the equations really do work, that is really do describe real phenomena, and everyone of us have proof of this in our pockets. The GPS device in your phone receives data from orbiting satellites that allow position to be calculated. These data MUST be have extremely accurate timestamps (on the order of nanoseconds) in order to work. However, since the satellites are moving very rapidly, they must have an offset built in to account for the time dilation predicted by the equations of Special Relativity. Also, since they are slightly further away from earth, ie operate in a slightly lower gravitational field, there must be a slight offset built in to account for the effects of General Relativity. The damn things work, they exist, they are built by myriad manufacturers (most in fierce competition with one another) and they are used by nearly everyone, everywhere. These are not the conditions necessary to conduct a grand conspiracy.
Now, do time and space really knit together to create all the effects predicted by General Relativity, or is it simply a mathematical model that happens to predict SOME behavior that is caused by something else entirely? A very good question, that none of the panelists are willing to ask themselves. And they are certainly not willing to question the most basic, foundation assumption in all of astrophysics…is gravity truly a universal constant? And does it really only depend upon the masses of objects and the distances between them? Furthermore, is gravity the ONLY force acting upon large bodies at great distances in the expanse of space? Or is there more going on. I would definitely say so, but I have only partial pieces of evidence and no math to go along with it.
Asking these questions is the very basis of critical thought. This is a separate issue, however, from employing the scientific method, which these people do and do well. They simply may have bad assumptions, and hell, maybe not.
In any case, assumptions are a fundamental requirement to even begin science OR mathematics. Though I think a genuine seeker of truth and critical thinker should have the ability to question any and all assumptions at any time, I would never fault a scientist for making them in the first place.
Great comment Drud.
Problem is we don’t know what Scrabbles position is on this.
His comment above the video is nothing moar than throwing shit at the wall..
hoping something will stick.
Wanting folks to scuttle around and do the splaining.
while he sits back and admires the masterpiece
I’m not looking at the images- they aren’t actually “images” at all, it’s CGI (according to them, no way to independently verify) that have been “assembled” to present an interpretation of what we would be able to see if you could actually “see” that far- which we can’t.
That’s where a truly legitimate scientific study would differ. They’d tell you all of that rather than crafting a narrative style headline- “the European Commission will present a ground-breaking discovery by Event Horizon Telescope – an international scientific collaboration aiming to capture the first image of a black hole by creating a virtual Earth-sized telescope. EU-funded researchers play a key role in the project.”
Read that little passage carefully. Two mentions of the European Union and EU funding in a two sentence reference to a black hole. In what way would that be even marginally relevant given what is being proposed? And then there is this oddity- ” …aiming to capture the first image of a black hole by creating a virtual Earth-sized telescope.”
Aiming to capture? I thought they said at the top of the passage that they were presenting a groundbreaking discovery? One sentence later they are merely “aiming to capture the first image”.
So which is it? Did they or didn’t they? If they are showing it to us in the subsequent video they presented, why the odd language? And what do they mean by “…creating a virtual Earth-sized telescope”? The Earth has a 25,000 mile circumference, where is there a 25,000 mile telescope? Why not just explain what VLBI radio telemetry is? It’s not only a nonsensical claim, they never make any attempt to explain that contention ever again in the presentation. And virtual means not really, doesn’t it? If you’ve got a ‘virtual girlfriend’ it means you don’t have a girlfriend except in your imagination.
Are you getting where I’m going with this? This is a giant political stroke job, a dog and pony show of the first order and it’s being used to pump up the EU and to simultaneously impress people that what we are looking at is an actual photograph of an actual object, like a still life or a sunset. This is about wealth transfers from the taxpayers to these “thinking classes” to continue with their nebulous and illusory projects that eat money.
More than that is the various presenters- what they say, how they say it, what they aren’t saying. The first guy spends pretty much the entire time telling people that science is sending a message to politicians that globalism is the only way forward and then he goes on to layout what sounds like a modern version of the Apostle’s Creed, “I believe…I believe…I believe…” it’s just weird. If what we’re talking about is scientific, why do we have a bunch of bureaucrats making the presentation?
Don’t listen to me, listen to your gut. Do any of these folks actually sound knowledgeable? The big wig didn’t know the difference between 500 billion, billion light years and 500 billion, billion kilometers and later he qualifies it again as saying 100 billion kilometers. Did he just wing it? If you can’t keep something like that straight, then what exactly is he there for? And then he says what we’re looking at is both A) light ‘circling the black hole’ and three minutes later B) the shadow of a black hole.
Which is it? Those two things aren’t the same thing. How can you be making the opening statement on this world shattering discovery and sound like a fourth grader reading a book report on something they didn’t read?
Like I said earlier, I could do this for the entire presentation. One mistake after another, contradictions and obfuscation. And all of it in the service of the EU and obtaining additional funding.
This comment nails it.
Thanks for playing.. and while yer at how aboot some splaining of that rocket being shot into stratosphere..
What I find most hilarious about you is you take great pains to demand everything explained when it comes to science yet turn to divine its..
Big Guy in The Sky
and if someone questions
you brush off why with
because reasons
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. Are you implying that my belief in God is based entirely on faith as opposed to evidence? Because that’s exactly the opposite for me. I’m not really a faith/emotionally wired believer in God, I’m more of a ‘how much more evidence do you need? ‘ kind of believer. His fingerprints (and I use the masculine pronoun just because) are all over everything that can be perceived by human senses.
And I don’t “demand everything (be) explained” I’m just looking for a little information, not mumbo jumbo. There was 500 billion billion light years more poopytalk in that video than scientific jargon.
Okay sure there was some poopycook or poopycock or mumbo jumbo or what ever. And yeah the whole event was done as a plead to get moar funds. Still in and of itself does not disprove the science.
Unless it is you… the terminal skeptic…
How about explaining the significance of that rocket video posted in other thread. Presuming your implication that the sky lit up because it hit somethin’ or other…
As to the for or against of whether God exists…
what and is the divine exactly based in evidence.
Please do provide details..
I’ll even cut you some slack..
CGI images are okay with me..
Yours in Odin,
RiNS
Funny thing about the details. There’s something hiding in them that wants to slouch toward Bethlehem and devour us all while the pyre is turning.
I heard if you quote enough people in one sitting no one will say anything as long as it seems to be profound.
Did it work?
lol
it does work..
I’m turning into the Odin Country Pastor…
Bravo.
Wow. That seems like a shitload of work just to get “additional funding”.
Surely, there must be an easier way.
Surely, you can come up with a better motive as to why they would engage in “contradictions and obfuscation.”.
Shoot the shit off the cuff at some half attended conference for billions of dollars? Yeah, who’d go to all that trouble, right? And BTW, if this was really as significant as they made it seem, why were there only a couple of dozen bored looking old men sitting an an auditorium that seats a couple of hundred? That’s not weird at all.
I just had a thought about you, HSF, and i wanted to see what you think.
I think that you are honest in the extreme and i mean that technically. Imagine a bell curve distribution of honesty with congenital liars on the fat left and you in the far right. This gives you the perspective that once you sense the slightest bit of disingenuousness that your natural reaction is to assume the person is completely full of shit.
But most of us exist in the meaty part of that curve. Not already entirely forthright but neither entirely full of shit either. Is like llpoh’s extreme conscientiousness… very very few people can work 100 hour weeks and maintain any modicum of effectiveness. Likewise very few can always be genuine and forthright.
See my post back in Stuck’s BH one. Nerds love to color basically.
Glad I didn’t waste the viewing time.
I’m going to ask my friend who claimed she could show me classified pictures of Pluto if I wanted to see them but I declined. Do you think Operation Fortitude helped the Allied forces maintain the secret?
This one was recently declassified…
There is no doubt that this presentation has an overall self-congratulatory mumbo-jumbo. My eyes definitely rolled when they said that the future of physics would be divided between the time before the image and the time after the image. And yes, the whole matter is about funding and keeping cushy jobs for these people. Still, that does not necessarily destroy the merit of the experiment or the soundness of the methodology. The numbers don’t interest me at all and therefore don’t detract from the presentation. At this level the details are just abstractions that mean really, really big and really, really far away. As far as the math goes, the numbers matter of course, but they published the findings and anyone can crunch the numbers…that’s the point of the science.
As far as the image itself, of course it’s not an actual picture. of course, it’s a computer rendering..or if you will an interpretation of data. How exactly is that different from sight?
It is definitely overblown and done for effect and attention. Few things done in the public eye are–or have ever been–otherwise. I have a huge problem with the scientific machine as a whole and there is definitely a cult-ish flavor to it. I’ve seen it up close at a physicists friends wedding….I asked some questions that hit at the foundations of their belief structure and was not met with a reasoned analysis, but rather the same type of scoffing found when questioning religious fundamentalism.
All of that said, however, I think it is going much too far to say that nothing in it “bears any resemblance to scientific reality.” These people’s posturing and self-adulating bullshit does not change the fact in the least that there is a remarkable object out there in deep space and a lot of very smart people spent a lot of time collecting some very detailed data about it.\
Again, nuance.
OK Marc, I really didn’t want to get involved with this. Drud has provided you with the best answer so far but clearly you have not invested the effort necessary to understand what these folks undertook to do. Don’t get me wrong. I am with Drud on this one and as he states, these people seem to think they managed to get a picture of a black hole. Maybe they believe it, most probably some do believe it and some know it’s bullshit. But that’s not your biggest complaint. That has to do with how they got the picture.
A virtual telescope is one that is made up of many small telescopes in different countries all over the world. As has been pointed out, these are not visible light telescopes. They don’t take a picture in red blue and green. These are apparently radio telescopes all over the earth and all pointed at this one point in the sky. They then combine all of the received images, and they are images, into one image that is as if there was one earth sized telescope, but there is not an earth sized telescope. There is a telescope that is virtually earth sized.
So what is an image? When you were young, you used lenses to focus light onto a piece of film. That film had chemicals in a gel on the surface and those chemicals reacted to the light coming through the lens and preserved an image that you could have printed at Walmart. Then you bought a digital camera and now you can’t even find that digital camera because you take your photos with your phone like everybody else. The image in the digital world is made up of ones and zeros which can be interpreted to create an image that you can have printed at Walmart, or on your printer in your office. But in the end, you image that you keep in a book or a shoebox in the closet is just a momentary expression of photons which have traveled to you, and through a lens in your phone onto a sensor that then gets stored as bits on a storage device. For you that would be the cloud. In the very same way, photons of radio frequencies can travel through space to very large dish antennas to be interpreted and combined into data that is stored to later be massaged into an image. Is that massaging CGI? Well no, it isn’t but in some respects it is. There is no color in radio frequencies because they are not in the visible light spectrum. So somebody, probably a 20 something basement dwelling Phd candidate in some godless university in Germany, is going to have to translate the received radio waves into visible pictures for your amusement. Yeah, that part is CGI. But the data that leads to the image is not CGI. It is real.
But whether it is real or not is not really the most important issue here. It can be real, not real like in orange, but real as in an actual real image but that does not mean that it is a black hole. The image could be lots of naturally occurring things. It is the interpretation of the image by these people that turns it into a black hole. And they could be wrong, and probably are wrong most of the time, but they are the experts. They get paid to be right but you can’t understand what they are doing and I can’t understand what they are doing and the Donald can’t understand what they are doing so who is going to call them on being wrong? I realize that this is frustrating. I agree with you that they are likely full of shit. I agree with Drud that it is their quest for the truth and their belief in, what for them has become, the religion of science that shepherds them into the conclusion that they are looking at a black hole. But for now, all you can take away from this is that they cobbled together a lot of radio telescopes to make a really large radio telescope the size of the earth and then took a picture of what they suspect might be a black hole.
Sorry, that annoymouse was me.
You do know that I understand all of that, right? If I can read something I can almost always come to some fundamental understanding of what I have read. My handle is “Hardscrabble Farmer”, not “Mentally Retarded farmer”. I understand that what he means when he says “virtual telescope” the “size of the Earth” actually means an array of radio telescopes, and that the information is collected in a synchronized manner, giving us a “global image”, etc. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if all the maths are right, knowhumsayin?
My point is this; if the person that they have hand selected to share this- what can we call it but incomparable and unprecedented scientific proof (that it is, in fact a “Black Hole” as only theorized up until this very day)-is so woefully unprepared to even describe in the most elementary manner imaginable, what would lead you to accept any of the rest of what is being sold as factual or accurate? If they had let me go over the notes and given 15 minutes to prepare I could have done the same job better and more convincingly and I don’t even believe in the current Globe theory. This entire presentation is fiction. There are absolutely radio telescopes and astronomers and supercomputers doing all kinds of calculations and modelling, etc, etc., but that doesn’t mean that any of it all gels together into a coherent reality, i.e. “First images of a Black Hole” fiction. On the contrary, it screams fugazi, grift, heist, whatever floats your boat. Why do you think there were twenty people in that room instead of SRO? Are Black Holes not one of the capo de tutti capos of the Astronomy cliques? Come on, hire some LARPS to fill the room at least, let them wear lab coats and big black glasses.
I’m not in the business of trying to convince anyone of anything and I don’t take one nickel of taxpayer money to bang out some comments on the Interwebs, I’m just sharing my observations of reality as I understand it and coloring them with what little wisdom I possess about human nature and sociopathic behaviors in organizational collectives.
Take it, leave it, same/same.
Loved @P2s analysis…..
Y’all DO know that the image is not actually captured with a light-gathering telescope, right? The “machine” used to capture this “image” is the “Event Horizon Telescope” which receives and decodes RADIO WAVES.
The practical significance of this is that radio wavelengths are much larger than visible light. So how does one “image” a finer resolution energy than the scope’s receiver can capture?
Twenty-five words or less, please.
It’s all BS to either convince the people that:
– a gubmint knows how to do something
– justify more money to devote to pet projects that none of us will ever know about
Da P
It’s all gettin’ more screwed up than a football bat.
Today, the recently appointed Attorney General of the United States publically acknowledged the largest political scandal in American history. The first photos of a black hole captured the entire world’s imagination and a NEW human species was discovered! All in the same 24 hours! A-BAM-SHAMMA-LAMMA-A-BOOM-BAM-BING!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jeCZE5iq0o
I’m sorry, which black ***hole are we talking about again???
Some might say that about 65 percent of the black caucus us really the mulatto, qudiroone or octadroone caucus.
Hill Farmer you got too much time on your hands cause you been starring into the void.
Yeah baby…
another black hole just found in the Blue Jackets defence!
1-0 Lightning!
why are you such a lightning fan–move them up there & get em out of here–
tear in time space continuum
3-0
why do that Nice to have warm place to go watch hockey in winter
2-0
come down next spring & you can do a double,a jays spring training game in the afternoon & a bolts game in the evening–
i’ll go to the jays game w/you,you’re on your own 4 the bolts–
just leave odin home,he won’t handle the heat well & i might have to throw him to the gators–
Sounds like a great idea. I have always wanted to go to Spring Training.
To be honest for just a second, if someone held a gun to my head and forced me to choose, I’d choose baseball over hockey eight days of the week.
Don’t worry aboot Odin. He is busy and on the lookout for Ice Giants that time of year anyways round here..
And checking in on game last night after surfing other channels, turns out the Bolts shit the bed and lost.
Oh well,
maybe that was preordained and divinely inspired..
Russia, Russia, Russia…
“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the US public believes is false.”
William J. Casey
physiognomy. i have no idea who the fuck that is, but it is really creepy.
.
. .
. . .
BREAKING NEWS: Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez Proposes Plan to Fill Black Hole with Free Candy for Halloween. Also Wants Hole Renamed, Claiming Current Name is Racist.
.
Martin Luther King Candy Hole? He had a few of those lined up, didn’t he? Not to disparage, but the man could get some pussy.
We should pay Elon Musk to gather up all of our extra CO2 and have him launch it towards the black hole. If we can just get him to launch enough rockets, we just may be able to stave off the end of life as we know it in 12 years…..
Could this be a false flag that the aliens are coming? That we have to support a one world earth government to protect the earf from the evil aliens? Led by the vatican’t and other evil mother fuckers such as aipac and the serpent class. Could it? Could it be that this false black flag hole is to usher in the new world order and create a false prophet to save all of our fucking asses and distance us from the one true God? Could it?
Who the fuck knows. 4th turnings are interesting indeed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve_ylvALnN0
Live moon landing (or is it?)