Guest Post by The Zman
A popular argument from the Judeo-Christians, mostly in response to people like Ilhan Omar and other anti-Israel advocates, is that one cannot be anti-Israel without also being anti-Semitic. Now, in this context, “Judeo-Christian” applies to the Jewish pundits, who are primarily pro-Israel, but have an exclusively Christian audience. People like Ben Shapiro and Dennis Prager. Both of whom are tireless advocates for Israel and promiscuously use the phrase “Judeo-Christian” in their arguments.
Their claim works as follows. It’s not that being anti-Zionist is just a ploy by the anti-Semites. It’s that the very nature of Jewishness is tangled up in the existence of Israel, which transcends the current state of Israel. According to their argument, Israel the idea, as well as the country, is what defines Jewishness. To oppose Israel, especially its right to exist, is to oppose that which makes being a Jew possible. Therefore, opposing Israel, by definition, makes that person an anti-Semite.
It is a curious argument, when you examine the implications. There is no doubt that Israel the concept is an inextricable part of Jewish identity. Anyone who has watched the move The Ten Commandments gets that. The Judeo-Christians, however, take this further and move beyond the concept of Israel to the physical country itself. It is hard to know if this is something Jews accept, but we do have example of Jews that have opposed Zionism, so some Jews oppose some aspects of Israel.
Let’s just assume, for the sake of argument, that Prager and Shapiro are right about this and Israel and Jews are one in the same. The first conclusion, the most obvious one, is that Israel is an ethno-state. Sure, anyone can become a Jew, but that is like saying anyone can become a physicist. It may be true in theory, but in reality the conversion rate to Judaism rounds to zero. Jewish law requires the rabbi to strongly discourage gentiles from converting to Judaism.
The other conclusion from the Shapiro-Prager argument is that Jews are, by nature, primarily loyal to Israel. For a Jew to oppose the very essence of what makes him a Jew is an unsolvable paradox. In order to be authentically Jewish, a Jew has to adhere to that which makes one Jewish. If loyalty to Israel comes before everything else, that means all diaspora Jews are guests. They can and do work with their hosts, but in the end, their first loyalty has to be to Israel and the Jewish people.
This is, the argument Hazony makes in his book The Virtue of Nationalism. He does not apply it to Jews in the diaspora, but that is the implication. If Jews are a nation, then the primary loyalty of all Jews must be to that nation. He tries to run the “anyone can be a Jews” line through his argument, but that would invalidate all of his claims about Zionism, so it must be decoration. The implication here is clear. Jews are a nation, spread out around the world, but their ancestral land is Israel.
Another implication of this link between anti-Zionism and antisemitism is that Ben Shapiro is lying when he says ideology trumps race. After all, if Zionism is just another ideological viewpoint, then so is anti-Zionism. Yet, Shapiro insists that being opposed to Zionism immoral on its face. The only way that can be true is if Zionism is based in biology, rather than ideology. Therefore, opposing Zionism is the same as racism, which means that Shapiro thinks race transcends ideology after all.
A possible way around this problem of Jews being a guest population is the claim that America is the new Israel or an extension of Israel. This is something that sells to the Christian Zionists and solves the problem of loyalties. America, according to this theory, is a both a defender of Israel and a staging ground for Jews who will one day return home during the ingathering of the Jewish diaspora. Aliya, the return to Israel, is a core idea of Zionism and it is included in Israel’s Scroll of Independence.
This has appeal to Christian Zionists in America, who believe that the gathering of the diaspora in Israel is in accordance with Bible prophecy and a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. Christian Zionism has its roots in the 17th century America with the Puritans. It turns up in the 18th century and especially the 19th century with the abolitionists, so it has a long history in America. As a result, there is a large audience for this form of Zionism among American Christians.
The problem with this line of reasoning is that it means America is not really a nation or even a country. It’s just a temporary staging area. Loyalty to America, therefore, is contingent on American policy toward Israel. That is as un-American as you can get, as it denies the very existence of America as a country, much less a nation. Even here, the end result of the Judeo-Christian model is one where the Zionist can have no loyalty to America, as America does not exists, outside its role in Zionism.
This logical problem is why smarter Jews have always opposed this line of reasoning with regards to Israel and especially Zionism. In fact, Jews in the diaspora have tended to oppose Israel. The ADL, for example, has steadfastly rejected the argument that anti-Zionism is antisemitism. They argue that Israel is just another country without any special claims upon Jews. Whether they are sincere or not is debatable, but at least their logic allows them to be loyal Americans and Jewish.
That is, fundamentally, the problem with people like Prager and Shapiro. In their zeal to inculcate pro-Israel sentiment, they define themselves as both un-American and opposed to the very concept of America. Worse yet, they encourage Christians to sublimate their national loyalty to the ends of another nation. In order to sell this, they have to lie about their own intentions and their own beliefs. They demand you place ideology over biology, while they place biology ahead of ideology.
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Of course Ben Shapiro is lying.
This also shows the advantage of being a non-Protestant Christian. You can still see the Jews as perfidious.
Give the Jews a break. After all they invented the cash register – AKA Jewish Piano.
And the fake megaton nukes the Jewish scientists built out of spare pinball machine parts.
How else do you think they financed Korea and Vietnam? Fake nukes and fake moon missions.
Tying Judaism to Christianity was a clever trick used by the jews to “cement” their claim to the “land of Israel” and of the covenant, to which I reply, “God is not a real estate agent”.
Jews rejected the covenant when they murdered Jesus Christ. Their covenant with God was then “null and void”.
It is the flawed Schofield translation of the Bible that elevated jews to the status of Christianity’s “elder brothers”, which was then reinforced by the Catholic (flawed) “Vatican II Ecumenical Council” in the 1960s.
I cringe when I hear well-meaning people talk about out judeo-Christian heritage.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
The only common thread between Christianity and judaism is the Ten Commandments, nothing more.
The god of judaism is a vengeful god, totally unlike the merciful and welcoming God of Christianity.
Christianity welcomes ALL, regardless of nationality or social status, not true of judaism.
Judaism is an insular belief system that shuns outsiders, prohibits proselytization, and promotes a form of supremacy, relegating all gentiles (non-jews) to the status of livestock-subhumans with souls, only to be used for the advancement and benefit of jews.
Jews DID murder Jesus Christ. Sad to say, even the present-day (post-Vatican II ecumenical council) Catholic church has bought into absolving the jews for Jesus Christ’s murder. As always is the case, the jews got others, the Romans to do their dirty work for them, with the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
How can Christians have the same values as the Jews; the very people who denounced and betrayed the founder of Christianity, Jesus Christ, and call for his execution (by others, of course, that is the Jewish way). It makes absolutely no sense at all.
Jews have no respect for Christianity, for Jesus Christ or Mary, his mother, who are both honored as Prophets in Islam, but instead, Jews spit on hearing their names and do the same while passing a Christian of any kind or a Christian Church in Israel. They have no respect for Christians or any other religion.
It is time the Jewish lobbies and the American Government leaders as well as the evangelical Christian leaders who mislead the poor American young into joining the military and believing that they are doing something for God and Christianity by fighting Israel’s wars were named, shamed and arrested and tried for treason.
Judeo Christian was invented in the 1940s. The term has no meaning at all.
Scofield did not, for the hundred and fifty ninth time (as that’s how many times I’ve seen this exact same post from you), translate the Bible. He took notes; some of which were spot on, some of which were far off.
gcp,
is the god of judaism the same god that christians worship?
all you guys missed that one.esp the 18 as of this moment who upvoted it–
The god of Judaism is Satan. Only the historical remnant of Israel throughout time realized otherwise.
Many so called Christians worship the same without realizing it. Satan is the god of this world. He’s been convincing men of this since the beginning.
There is only and ever one Creator God and His name (as revealed to us) is Jesus. To answer your question directly, believing Jews and actual Christians today both worship the same God; though that God requires different responses from man throughout time depending upon what He’s doing in time.
Thus the incredible levels of confusion extant when people fail to rightly divide the Bible. We divide it between prophecy (what God is doing with Israel in relation to the gentile nations) and mystery (what God is doing with the church which is His body that contains neither jew nor gentile) and the two are very different.
GCP is correct about Satan being (((their))) god. God does not have a label and is not named Jesus unless that is what you care to call it. God is a frequency and vibration on a massive scale in which we live and that which we are made of. God is not of any particular religion which are creations to give HUmans someone to worship for this place and experience and all that sustains.
GCP- The entire world/uninverse is God’s body not just the church. God’s body is everything contained within. It is our construct.
Paul, on the road to Damascus, looking to kill the jewish believers, meets God and God speaks to him saying:
Acts 9:4-5 KJB… “And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.”
Don’t kick against the pricks BL. It’s a fruitless endeavor.
“…it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks”
Always think about the Man In Black….
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum
? +1,000
Judeo -Christain is just another lie told to us by the media. Judaism and Christianity are opposed to each other as night and day. Jews and Judaism reject Jesus Christ therefore Judaism is satanic and jews who reject Christ are all liars. ” Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ.He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. He who denies the Son has not the Father either.”1 John 2:22.
Simple. Truth.
Z-man wrote:
One of the commenters here (it might have been Mary Christine) e-mailed me a link to an article by the Christian pastor and radio host, Chuck Baldwin, who, essentially, posed the following question:
If you remove Israel/Zionism from your Christianity, what remains?
It is an excellent question and when Baldwin asked that question of himself a while ago, he did not like his honest answer.
This question also, in turn, raises another one: Are Christianity and Zionism mutually exclusive?
Or, even better, this one: “Are Christianity and nationalism mutually exclusive?”
And, then, these: “Is Zionism “nationalism” or something else? What? Why?”
And right there, just then, is where, and when, the debate begins….
I’ve posted this before… 2 articles contained within. Read Perloff’s before reading my rebuttal (if you want to read at all).
Israel is currently fallen. God is NOT working through them as He once was; as He will one day again. He is currently working through the church which is His body redeeming the heavens from satans grasp. Earth comes next.
Bernie Sanders lays out his ‘White Genocide’ stance:
Because, make no mistake, when they say ‘racists’ and ‘white nationalists,’ they mean all white people – and exterminating white people is exactly what the communists like Bernie tried the last time they managed to seize power in a European country (Russia).
They were entirely successful in exterminating the ethnic Scandinavian aristocracy of Russia, and nearly so with the ethnic German middle class of Russia.
All this began long before Hitler rose to power.
And about the Soviets using psychology to destroy their political opponents . . . .
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/08/19/italian-psychologist-proposes-electric-shock-treatment-to-eliminate-prejudices/
They want to destroy the parts of your brain that recognize the threat.
I just found out I am an Anti-Semite.
Why? Because I asked “why doesn’t the media call Israel’s 70 year old Muslim Travel Ban, and new anti-Muslim border wall (paid for by the U.S. taxpayer) “racist”, like they did with Trump’s Border Wall, and SO CALLED “Muslim Travel Ban. So-Called, because IT WAS ONLY FOR THE SEVEN MUSLIM COUNTRIES OBAMA BOMBED WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT. Not an actual “Muslim Travel Ban” like Israel’s. Just another in a long string of lies from the media. “FAKE NEWS”
For some reason (NEW WORLD ORDER/GLOBALIZATION) Israel and the Media want America and Europe to be flooded with Muslim refugees, and invaders from the south but they want none for Israel. Bibi Netanyahu said Israel’s border wall and Muslim travel ban were important for “Israel’s security”,and for “demographics”(aka JEWISH PURITY). “Israel is too small” he said, but all Jews (except black jews) are welcome to come any time. They’ll just steal some more Arab land to make room.
So the website I posted on, banned me and called me “anti-semitic”. I asked myself what the heck is a semite, anyway? Well surprise surprise, A Semite is someone who speaks ARABIC or Jewish languages. I also found out that the vast majority of semites are indeed Arabs. Very few Jewish people speak Yiddish today. “ANTI-SEMITE” IS A MADE UP WORD used by the media to demonize anyone who dares speak the truth about Israel and the Globalist Jews.
Only 1/4 million people speak Yiddish, another 200,000 or so speak Hebrew or Ladino, so less than a half million. 420 MILLION speak “Arabic Languages”. JEWISH SEMITES ARE ONLY A TINY FRACTION OF ALL SEMITES, but everyone I ask says a Semite is only a Jew. How can Americans be so ignorant? It’s quite obvious that the Jewish semite controlled media (FAKE NEWS) is lying to us(ABOUT EVERYTHING).
I, unlike 99.9999% of the brainwashed sheeple in America took the two minutes to look up the word Semite,
before mindlessly repeating it, every time someone tells the truth about the Privileged 1.8%. Ever hear of a dictionary? It tells you what words mean.
JWO..
What took you so long to look it up. Were you waiting for the internet to get invented?
At any rate, welcome to Redpillandia.
“Not everything on the Internet is true.” ~ Abraham Lincoln
Shemites – the descendants of Shem. After the waters of the flood receded and Noah’s sons families began to grow in numbers Ham and Japheth migrated to Europe and Asia, Shem remained in the Middle East. So Jews and Arabs are Shemites. Now when translated to English Shemites became semites just like Shalom became Salem. Peace
This.
Just more clutter and white noise. Lets discuss it some more. What is Zionism is not where the debate begins. Keep it simple.
IT’S THE JEWS PERIOD.
Let the ones who are not complicit speak out against Israel and Zionism like we are being forced to speak out about what we believe. Maybe 300,000 ultra Orthodox Jews are against Zionism openly. Out of 14.5 million Jews?
If you aren’t aware of what is being done to us by International Jewry that isn’t my fault. If you refuse to define the enemy, that’s not my fault. If you don’t stand for something you’ll fall for anything.
Attacking or debating symptoms is what they want. It’s their Forte.
Rarely do I make categorical statements, but this topic calls for one: “Christian Zionists” are passively subversive with respect to US identity and cattle if ever cattle there were. Folks of Jewish origin in the West (i.e. non-“semetic” countries primarily of European origin) who closely identify with Israel the nation should consider themselves on the horns of a dilemma.
The term “Judeo-Christian” is a perfect example of an oxymoron. They truthfully can’t be used together in a sentence. For what communion hath light with the darkness? Promoting this exercise in Hegelian dialectics are none other than the totally brainwashed and mentally unhinged Christian Zionists, who have become a menace to this nation by wearing their ignorance of historical facts like a badge of honor. It’s no wonder that we’re circling the drain.
Ya got yer Joos. They are like oil.
Ya got yer Christians. They are like water.
Do oil and water mix? No!!
Likewise, don’t ever say Judeo-Christian again, or I will kick you in the fuck!
Israel today is fallen.
Romans 11:11-13 KJB… “I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:”
God is not yet finished with them.
That’s true. He promised to make a “total destruction” of Mt. Seir and the Edomites (modern day Jewry). Even so, Heavenly Father, come quickly.
He will destroy ALL the kingdoms of this world. It will begin with modern day jewery as they are the ones who will introduce anti-christ to the world “as god” incarnate. They are the ones who were deceived enough to miss His first coming to them specifically.