Submitted by Hardscrabble Farmer
-----------------------------------------------------
It is my sincere desire to provide readers of this site with the best unbiased information available, and a forum where it can be discussed openly, as our Founders intended. But it is not easy nor inexpensive to do so, especially when those who wish to prevent us from making the truth known, attack us without mercy on all fronts on a daily basis. So each time you visit the site, I would ask that you consider the value that you receive and have received from The Burning Platform and the community of which you are a vital part. I can't do it all alone, and I need your help and support to keep it alive. Please consider contributing an amount commensurate to the value that you receive from this site and community, or even by becoming a sustaining supporter through periodic contributions. [Burning Platform LLC - PO Box 1520 Kulpsville, PA 19443] or Paypal
-----------------------------------------------------
To donate via Stripe, click here.
-----------------------------------------------------
Use promo code ILMF2, and save up to 66% on all MyPillow purchases. (The Burning Platform benefits when you use this promo code.)
It is my sincere desire to provide readers of this site with the best unbiased information available, and a forum where it can be discussed openly, as our Founders intended. But it is not easy nor inexpensive to do so, especially when those who wish to prevent us from making the truth known, attack us without mercy on all fronts on a daily basis. So each time you visit the site, I would ask that you consider the value that you receive and have received from The Burning Platform and the community of which you are a vital part. I can't do it all alone, and I need your help and support to keep it alive. Please consider contributing an amount commensurate to the value that you receive from this site and community, or even by becoming a sustaining supporter through periodic contributions. [Burning Platform LLC - PO Box 1520 Kulpsville, PA 19443] or Paypal
-----------------------------------------------------
To donate via Stripe, click here.
-----------------------------------------------------
Use promo code ILMF2, and save up to 66% on all MyPillow purchases. (The Burning Platform benefits when you use this promo code.)
Click to visit the TBP Store for Great TBP Merchandise
Excellent video…
“A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth” —Joseph Goebbels
Remember that 50’s 60’s college debate game show? I would pay good money to watch a debate between the “flat earthers” and the “hollow earthers”. That could make for some hilarious moments of pure stupidity.
You think that people who consider alternatives to the narrative are stupid? As in low IQ or some sort of genetic flaw?
Serious question.
I think anyone entertaining disc worlds is either ignorant or irrational. I don’t think narratives have anything to do with objective reality. With enough classical physics and theorem based geometry, there are no questions about the general geometric shape of Earth.
IQ has not much to do with how silly or serious a person is. I have witnessed many people with higher than my 95th percentile be at least as stupid as I can be. Smart people are capable of constructing more elaborate lies for themselves, but I think the pattern recognition still edges that out eventually.
I think it is interesting how this “debate” seems to draw out the solipsism in people. Solipsism doesn’t seem very satisfying to me. It’s like declaring yourself the loser in a game of solitaire.
Were you unable to suss out the pattern recognition of the media clips in that piece or are you going to be solipsistic about it?
Yes.
But seriously, the video speaks for itself. I was addressing topics of objective reality and its verifiability and then commenting on how reliable “intelligence” is.
I agree with your sentiments.
We could be living on an Alderson Disc, constructed by a lost civilization, the Silurian Hypothesis.
It is only through one’s own experiences which defines his/her reality. I can tell you I see an invisible, omnipotent divine being in the sky, okay, that no, I can’t really see, but He’s there, I can assure you, and He knows what you know before you know it, so don’t try anything. I may tell you this story innumerable times; in fact, others may tell you the same story, as they heard it from others. It’s like the old Faberge’ split-screen commercial: “You’ll tell two friends, and they’ll tell two friends, and so on, and so on…”
But what if you don’t feel what those storytellers do? I mean, they obviously do. They are unafraid to state it loudly and in mixed company; virtue signaling, by definition. But what if you think everything they believe is wrong, and its adherents both misinformed and proudly ignorant? It has to feel like being the one trout who’s swimming downstream, or drowning in the shallow end of the pool. Just with the comparison I’ve made using religion I expect some will take it as an attack on their faith. This is what happens when you challenge narratives. Nobody likes to think, “What if everything I’ve been told has all been lies?” but if you live long enough the thought will occur to you when you discover truths.
Personally, since every picture of every planet, including our own, is done using lenses, it is perfectly reasonable to say, “That’s not really what we’re seeing here.” Lenses are curved and thickened, meant to be a representation of our human eyes in order to see very far or very close — but they alter the reality of whatever it is which is being observed. It’s like looking through someone else’s eyes. And you may not see what they see.
But if enough people say they do see it, even if they don’t because they just want to get along, that still doesn’t make it real. The pLandemic is the most recent, perfect example. No country on this platter (ha!) has a sample of CONVID, no tangible evidence of its existence; yet, we have been told it not only exists but that it will kill your grandma if you don’t take an experimental genetic cocktail, and if that doesn’t work well you just better wait, buddy. And there is that rather vocal minority of whom I spoke earlier, who took the Official Narrative™ and removed their masks long enough to vomit it on anyone available, who proudly lined up for the Holy Jab® at their Fire Department because that’s where they could get the most attention, and who won’t talk to me anymore because I said if there’s a God, He just put an exclamation point on this whole George Floyd controversy, didn’t He?
The point is, believe in what you perceive and let no others tell you you’re wrong. Especially if they’re all a bunch of SFM’s.
So, if I see a photograph of you, by your reasoning, I can conclude that you are flat.
But. You’re not.
That’s what we’re supposed to take from pictures of anything. Pictures are not true representations of an object. There’s a thing in art called photorealism, when an artist takes a picture and transfers it onto another medium to make it “realer.” Why would you need to do that if photos are already “real?”
However, based on the photographic interpretation you see of me it would appear to you that I have no dimensions, so yes, I would seem flat (unless it’s a 3-D photo, in which case I would look flat in 3 dimensions). If you never actually saw me, that’s how you would remember me, as an image… but that’s someone else’s interpretation of how I look.
Reality is what we take to be true. What we take to be true is what we believe. What we believe is based upon our perceptions. What we perceive depends upon what we look for. What we look for depends upon what we think. What we think depends upon what we perceive. What we perceive determines what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What we take to be true is our reality.
That’s my “take” on it.
You sound like Barry Gibb. Just watched the documentary with my son, it was actually fascinating. His last words at the end of the film were almost exactly the same thing you said.
Apophenia in effect.
Well this is awkward.
What do you imagine those two things around Saturn and Neptune are?
But more to the point, why can’t we have a discussion about this topic without immediately resorting to calling someone stupid? Do you do this with every person you encounter who isn’t in lockstep with everything you happen to believe?
That must make life fairly unpleasant.
I saw this last night and thought it quite funny and immediately thought of you. I was going to hold it until Friday, but could not miss the opportunity to throw it into this discussion. It was not meant to be a discussion, but merely a lighthearted poke.
I somehow come across as pretty didactic in writing, my sincere apology.
I posted this more to point out the echolaic behavior of the mockingbird media and the way they condition a response from viewers when faced with anything that contradicts The Narrative. Their strange fascination with the Flat Earth- in reality a ‘I reject your explanation about Earth Theory’- and in dismissing any discussion of it whatsoever, a very compelling reason to discuss it.
Believe me this isn’t done as a means of provoking ridicule, I’m not a masochist and the truth is I have been so heavily indoctrinated over the course of my lifetime that I can’t fully give up on the globe theory either, but I absolutely reject anything coming from officialdom without a much deeper dive than anything I have previously considered. Add to it their weird obsession with these freaky Tony Stark characters like Branson and Musk trying to convince us with their space larks. It’s beyond suspicious. And their proof- that retarded Tesla floating in space video for example- are insulting to our intelligence. But they continue to pump it, like the Artemis program. It’s just PR for their money laundering operations using the same kind of juvenile pandering they’ve been pushing for decades now.
Have you seen this one?
Between 19 and 24 seconds the Earth is clearly concave. What are we to make of that? That you can’t trust the view through the windows? Then you can’t trust them when the Earth is convex either.
Yes. This^^^^^^
And, also, in the (Richard Branson in space) video, there appears to be a UFO shown at the 29 second mark.
Bizarre.
Healthy skepticism remains an effective antidote to both illusion and delusion.
Pretty sure that was an air bubble. There are a lot more of them in the longer version and oddly enough they all defy the weightless environment of the cabin and rise upward.
Strange.
Can air bubbles exist in the vacuum of space?
It’s space poop .
They are not high enough orbit for zero g. Gravity, like electromagnetism still has implied infinities in its equations, because it appears to keep going forever.
That is the nature of the rich people’s mendacity with “space”. They aren’t really in it, but it sounds cool to say they are.
Down here where I live we call that a lie.
We should talk about gravity next. That one fascinates the hell out of me.
Pretty sure gravity holds the secrets of perpetual motion.
I agree. You can ask my wife about what I have to say about people not calling liars what they are. That’s why she doesn’t listen to the news around me.
Ditto!
Interesting thing is that gravity is not native to our universe. It leaches out from an adjacent universe either adjacent to ours or close in proximity to it in the cosmic multiverse string
Makes perfect sense to me… 🙄
If the last year and a half has taught us anything it’s that we can’t trust the scientific and medical communities or the corporate media, and any facets of the government, and numerous faith leaders.
The vaccine is a death jab, and they know it. HCQ and Ivermectin are curative treatment for Covod, and they know it.
Masks are worse than useless and indeed harmful, as were lockdown s and they knew that.
The covid narrative was largely a lie, no worse than the flu unless you were in elderly or obese category, and yes people outside that category died, but they also die of the flu, and; knowing the depth and breadth of the flagrant obvious lies to trust them is foolish.
Not only would it be logical to question every past as well as present narrative presented by these cancerous blighted people, but it would be illogical not to do so.
That’s all anyone could ask for.
Thanks for confirming my bias.
It’s been shown that people with deficiencies of Vitamin D are more vulnerable to experience more sever symptoms so that may explain the people outside the risk category dying.
How do we know the planets, sun and moon are not also flat discs. As hardscrabble farmer suggests look at those things around Saturn and Neptune. Our sense of sight only sees three dimensional for a very short distance. Our sight cannot determine three dimensions in so called space. If you think of yourself in a two dimensional world and this world was penetrated by a three dimensional object then you can understand what I am saying here.
Look at the UN symbol. Does it not look like a flat earth map? This begs the question: Why did the UN choose this symbol?
For a long time I have believed that the earth is a globe. Then I heard the flat earther’s story. This caused me to think about why I believe the earth is a globe. Then I realized that I have no direct proof that the earth is a globe. I realized my belief has been developed by information in the form of pictures by others and told the object of the earth shown me was a three dimensional globe.
Did you know that geometry is a flat plane mathematical construct?
The interesting thing about the flat earth construct is that it cannot be debunked by reason and logic while we observe the earth around us with our inherent limited senses. Our elements of experience is guided by sensation (sense experience) to perception to reasoning to abstraction to concept. Flat earth concepts follow this pattern while globe earth concepts don’t.
Our science is not as developed as we would like to think. Look what quantum physics is telling us about our world. “Beyond Weird” a book about quantum physics written by Philip Ball is an interesting read.
Flat earthers have a legitimate argument that needs to be further investigated.
While we all have opinions derived from our experiences I would be shocked if mankind knows one percent of what is ultimately knowable.
Meanwhile, I am still waiting for the fuel cell powered 2000 Toyota RAV 4 we were promised 25+ years ago and the flying cars. Can’t forget that GE home fuel cell power plant/furnace/AC BS promised at the same time either.
Can Science Cure Death? It Sure Looks Like It.
The first unified theory of aging might be the key to humans living forever.
BY JACQUELINE DETWILER
JUL 15, 2021
This is what Popular Science prints now, not the old flying car in your garage stories.
One can find the story on Drudge Report sown amoungst the other drivel.
Riiiight.
Aren’t you a Christian?
Maybe you missed Hebrews 9:27.
“It is appointed for men once to die …”
Humans will NOT cheat death this side of heaven.
And here I thought you were TBP’s Master of Sarcasm, must have got you mixed up with Win 22.
Great comment!
What about a debate over the preference for a Alderson disk vs a Dyson’s Sphere?
They are both worthy of discussion in a truly rational world, especially since the one thing no human is capable of doing is to leave the planet to see for themselves.
All I have ever wanted- for myself and for those who think for themselves- is the right to have these discussion without having to rely on “experts” as the baseline for any inquiry. We are all capable of considering anything and in following wherever our thoughts take us absent constant ridicule for not accepting things a priori. The parrot-like behavior of the establishment is an indicator of those who do not think or speak for themselves and that is always a good indicator of bad faith.
I wonder if it is a matter of the topics. Some require depth and breadth of knowledge and due to the objective nature of the question, people don’t want to argue it, because you can look it up and test it for yourself. All of it. You don’t need a Large Hadron Collider or anything.
It’s not an argument, it’s a discussion. And I have tested it for myself and the things I have been told are true don’t match my observations. There is no curve and their is no perceptible movement. Sometimes gravity works and sometimes it doesn’t. And in science observation has always played a larger role than theory.
Therein lies the rub.
Of course in the larger context, none of this matters on a human level. As far as we’re concerned the world is stationary and it is flat, the Sun rises and sets rather than we spin at a thousand miles an hour while sailing through the solar system at 67,000 mph, chasing the Sun that is moving at 828,000 mph as the galaxy flies ever outwards at 1.3 million mph.
I’m getting carsick just typing it out.
YMMV
Not me in this situation- I think everyone’s reactions to this topic are really illuminating, and even Funny. Like almost everyone I watched my first flat earth video on a whim, then went oh crap, and dove deeper. Showed my husband, thinking he’d think I’m crazy, but he said oh crap.
On the other hand people get really angry AT THE EVIDENCE, then at the person, when Very interesting to watch.
I feel no need to convince people to believe or even be open minded about it. I think this topic is viral now and there’s no stopping it. It will just take awhile. I think anyone who is curious would examine the topics closely.
Once again the two things that tipped me over (with a lot in between) were number one, the curvature formula we all learned is not correct (and all that implies), and they lost the moon visit data, can’t get through so called van Allen belt, etc. Give me a break. These should alert any idiot there is something very fishy going on. And there’s much more.
This topic is visceral. A possible impenetrable dome over us… lies this big…
A FAKE GLOBAL PANDEMIC should be wake up call enough for those who know it. Itmay be easier for those who sussed out the macro evolution lies to accept, in general, although creation scientists are rabidly against any part of it. But those guys are slow to give up years of phd level work.
We’re going to get a flat earth poster to hang in our shop to spur conversation. It’s fun. I’m not saying these illustrations are what everything is, but think it’s much more complex.
A good place to go to get caught up is the flat earth clock app- got to get the real one though. It’s free and has most of stuff because it’s hard to find now
What do you globe earthers think about thOSE clips of that NASA guy saying straight out they lost the moon visit data, and that they are now trying to figure out how to get through the supposed van Allen belt?
My eyes literally bulged out when I saw these clips.
Have you seen the clips? If so, what do you think? Genuinely curious.
Does this look real?
If you want to laugh real hard look at the whole story on Zerohedge.
Begs the question. Can you lose something that you never had?
I would like to offer a compromise between Round Earthers and Flat Earthers.
I knew that North was up.
There you go; proof that compromise is ALWAYS the best solution.
(Do I need to add the /S ?)
That’s a racist picture. Making the Afro’s claw their way to the top while one little slip and they fall off into space.
The one from Cincinnati (Rob Braun) made a strangely cryptic retirement after this ..
https://www.citybeat.com/movies-tv/tv/blog/21074266/departing-local-12-anchor-rob-braun-i-dont-feel-i-fit-well-with-the-sinclair-news-model
More “Tin Foil” ?
Breaking News!: Kamala D. Harris failed to disclose her relationship to Sir Nigel G. Knowles, her husband Douglas C. Emhoff’s former boss at DLA Piper Plc (London, UK).
Sir Nigel is a fellow director of SGO Smartmatic with Lord George Mark Malloch-Brown that controls NV, WI, PA, GA, MI, WI voting machines from Dominion, Smartmatic, ES&S, Sequoia, Premier, Diebold and OpTech voting machines responsible for the massive 2020 voting fraud.
Could only do 3 minutes. That accent grates on me.
I feel the same way about NPR.
Sometimes you just grin and bear it.
Just for you.
WTAF?
I felt like she was trying to get in my pants. What a weird person to choose as your mouthpiece.
Bookshelves without the books. I guess most people relate better to tchotchkes.
It wasn’t for you, it’s for Melty. I should have refreshed the page after watching the whole video.
BTW, I did the test with Aliens, Bigfoot, Flat earth and Pizza gate for shits and giggles.
THE BOXES DON’T LIE.
“THE BOXES DON’T LIE.”
What does that mean?
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=flat+earth
See the context box at the top, BTW that was in the video.
I don’t google.
So was it true or was it false?
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Bigfoot
You don’t have to log on, I’ve never logged on to Google with this computer. Just click on the link and discover the truth yourself.
Alright back to Solitaire, I hope I don’t lose.
I visited the link… I got distracted by this amazing young woman from North Korea.
Well HSF that won’t Google want’s to know what the answer is. So what is the answer?
The Frequency IMPLODED with this chick. WTAF x 1000.
You want to see something really coincidental?
Her very first tweet-
Victoria Ward, MD
@victoriacward
·
Mar 5, 2020
Turns out funding for science is important. And vaccines protect from worldwide illnesses. https://nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-close-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago-then-money-dried-n1150091
Opened her account in December of 2019.
Didn’t see that coming, did you?
How much you want to bet that the check that paid off her student loan with Stanford was postmarked Langley, Va.?
It is pretty curious to have your whole academic and professional career in San Francisco.
Pediatric patients, children who are 50 times more likely to die from the jab than the virus. She needs a front row seat in the Nuremburg II trials
If she came on to me, I would social distance and self isolate.There’s crazy and then there’s Covid cult crazy, and she is probably both.
I would like to pray for her, my enemy. So, I will;
“Dear God, please smite this creature and send her to the depths of hell. Amen.”
Question: I’m vaccinated now what?
Answer: Make sure that your will is in order and updated not to include any other vaccinated people. Otherwise the government will.get the money for their unclaimed funds department.
Her facial expression at the 1:25 min mark when she says “death” is more that of an “oopsie” or one of disgust. She is not a physician, or at least not one who has ever dealt with sick and dying people.
I thought at first she was just trying sell the “Well Health Safety Seal”…
So now you use the fact that we’re being lied to about the pandemic as proof that the earth is flat. I’m beginning to think you actually believe that nonsense; Wow Unbelievable.
If that’s what you got out of it then I can’t help you.
Thanks for proving the point.
Once you go flat, you never go back.
ET TU See Bee?
Totally not the point, which ironically you just proved.
I can’t watch the whole 40 minutes right now. But, my first impression is that the video is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
You have the makings of a very solid joke writer.
Excellent find. I plan to review and share widely.
The Facebook origins is interesting.
Around that time I worked with government databases to analyze financial and schedule data.
I saw great potential for data sharing via FB but was late to realize sinister potential.
Thaks for this astounding video.
Real life is very much more interesting right now than any novel or movie or video game, whatever. I mean it always has been to me but now it’s really overwhelming.
I mean my husband is right now checking out our water and I’m nervous he’s going to have a bear confrontation because of fruit on trees and we have many many bears of. Both kinds. Exciting enough.
Thanks for the vid link, I have followed along for years now and find myself solidly on the edge. I think it’s Crow 777 that has produced a number of vids relating to this, the new Nikon IR equipment can apparently “see” way too far into the Pacific off the CA coast.
If true, Id like to get your opinion on a couple of queries that come to mind. as i value your opinion and intuit that you have spent time formulating it.
1. The big obvious as fuck question: What is the nature of the edge? The spherical model has a tight package in this regard, that lays the foundation for all minds to settle on. Not that I expect fireworks here, any thoughts would be appreciated, regardless of content.
2. Why? Why would The Powers that Be, whomever they be, promote such? What do they have to gain?
Thanks in advance if you choose to respond and thanks again for the post if not.
Also DITRH (deep inside the rabbit hole) on youtube. And Owen Benjamin, who “went flat” right on air.
Ah, the good old times when I looked into these things about 7 years ago. Got bigger fish to fry now, like how to live a good life. But still have not found any definitive proof of curvature.
1. Ice
2. To remove GOD
Concise, and correct.
Gatts, how does a spherical earth remove God?
To Ottomatik, asking why would TLPTB promote the Heliocentric/vast beyond comprehension model of our universe, and to Anonymous, who asks how would the Heliocentric model remove God.
Let me expand on gatsby1219’s correct but succinct reply.
If we truly existed in a mind-bendingly vast universe rather than a large but humanly comprehensible abode clearly made for the children of Adam to live and thrive, it is easier for mankind to believe that in such a vast arena, random chance might allow for life to arise out of non-living material. No need for a God creator when both time and distance are crazy vast. Heck, random chance will do.
Same thing for the age of creation.
Us humans do not see evolution in progress.
Where are the large fauna at the halfway point of transitioning into a completely different organism? It’s so slow the universe MUST be billions (13 to 16 is the current fashionable number) for the unobservable processes to have taken place. Otherwise the great THEORIES of the great professors would be wrong.
God indeed. Pish-tosh as any modern Major General would tell you.
The Bible states the Sun and the Moon and the stars are inside a dome (the firmament) which covers the stationary Earth.
“Scientists” like politicians, can be bought. “Science” like critical race theory can rest on absurd foundations. It’s the rare person who can go against the grant money.
I go with the Bible. You are free to take your choice.
It can be easily demonstrated, with science, Physics in fact, that the Earth we live on is NOT spinning.
Thanks HSF for posting on the subject. It gets a little less ridicule each time it’s brought up.
PSbindy, you commented so matter of factly as though you were the infallible Vicar of Christ many might be tempted to accept it as gospel. I would like a little evidence that can be traced and evaluated.
I say this because I just spent quite a bit of time pouring over Strong’s exhaustive concordance in the Hebrew and 7 different translations including quite a lot of commentary from early Chruch and Synagogue Bible experts and cannot find anything nearly as concrete as your statement.
Here is a link to the Concordance I used.
https://biblehub.com/concordance/
Here is a very interesting commentary on the subject of
Genesis 1:1- 1:19 concerning the earth and heavens.
Concerning the Heaven.
Exposition of the Orthodox Faith — John of Damascus
The heaven is the circumference of things created, both visible and invisible. For within its boundary are included and marked off both the mental faculties of the angels and all the world of sense. But the Deity alone is uncircumscribed, filling all things, and surrounding all things, and bounding all things, for He is above all things, and has created all things.
Since [1683] , therefore, the Scripture speaks of heaven, and heaven of heaven [1684] , and heavens of heavens [1685] , and the blessed Paul says that he was snatched away to the third heaven [1686] , we say that in the cosmogony of the universe we accept the creation of a heaven which the foreign philosophers, appropriating the views of Moses, call a starless sphere. But further, God called the firmament also heaven [1687] , which He commanded to be in the midst of the waters, setting it to divide the waters that are above the firmament from the waters that are below the firmament. And its nature, according to the divine Basilius [1688] , who is versed in the mysteries of divine Scripture, is delicate as smoke. Others, however, hold that it is watery in nature, since it is set in the midst of the waters: others say it is composed of the four elements: and lastly, others speak of it as a fifth body, distinct from the four elements [1689] .
Further, some have thought that the heaven encircles the universe and has the form of a sphere, and that everywhere it is the highest point, and that the centre of the space enclosed by it is the lowest part: and, further, that those bodies that are light and airy are allotted by the Creator the upper region: while those that are heavy and tend to descend occupy the lower region, which is the middle. The element, then, that is lightest and most inclined to soar upwards is fire, and hence they hold that its position is immediately after the heaven, and they call it ether, and after it comes the lower air. But earth and water, which are heavier and have more of a downward tendency, are suspended in the centre. Therefore, taking them in the reverse order, we have in the lowest situation earth and water: but water is lighter than earth, and hence is more easily set in motion: above these on all hands, like a covering, is the circle of air, and all round the air is the circle of ether, and outside air is the circle of the heaven.
Further, they say that the heaven moves in a circle and so compresses all that is within it, that they remain firm and not liable to fall asunder.
They say also that there are seven zones of the heaven [1690] , one higher than the other. And its nature, they say, is of extreme fineness, like that of smoke, and each zone contains one of the planets. For there are said to be seven planets: Sol, Luna, Jupiter, Mercury, Mars, Venus and Saturn. But sometimes Venus is called Lucifer and sometimes Vesper. These are called planets because their movements are the reverse of those of the heaven. For while the heaven and all other stars move from east to west, these alone move from west to east. And this can easily be seen in the case of the moon, which moves each evening a little backwards.
All, therefore, who hold that the heaven is in the form of a sphere, say that it is equally removed and distant from the earth at all points, whether above, or sideways, or below. And by below’ and sideways’ I mean all that comes within the range of our senses. For it follows from what has been said, that the heaven occupies the whole of the upper region and the earth the whole of the lower. They say, besides, that the heaven encircles the earth in the manner of a sphere, and bears along with it in its most rapid revolutions sun, moon and stars, and that when the sun is over the earth it becomes day there, and when it is under the earth it is night. And, again, when the sun goes under the earth it is night here, but day yonder.
Others have pictured the heaven as a hemisphere. This idea is suggested by these words of David, the singer of God, Who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain [1691] , by which word he clearly means a tent: and by these from the blessed Isaiah, Who hath established the heavens like a vault [1692] : and also because when the sun, moon, and stars set they make a circuit round the earth from west to north, and so reach once more the east [1693] . Still, whether it is this way or that, all things have been made and established by the divine command, and have the divine will and counsel for a foundation that cannot be moved. For He Himself spoke and they were made: He Himself commanded and they were created. He hath also established them for ever and ever: He hath made a decree which will not pass [1694] .
The heaven of heaven, then, is the first heaven which is above the firmament [1695] . So here we have two heavens, for God called the firmament also Heaven [1696] . And it is customary in the divine Scripture to speak of the air also as heavens, because we see it above us. Bless Him, it says, all ye birds of the heaven, meaning of the air. For it is the air and not the heaven that is the region in which birds fly. So here we have three heavens, as the divine Apostle said [1697] . But if you should wish to look upon the seven zones as seven heavens there is no injury done to the word of truth. For it is usual in the Hebrew tongue to speak of heaven in the plural, that is, as heavens, and when a Hebrew wishes to say heaven of heaven, he usually says heavens of heavens, and this clearly means heaven of heaven [1698] , which is above the firmament, and the waters which are above the heavens, whether it is the air and the firmament, or the seven zones of the firmament, or the firmament itself which are spoken of in the plural as heavens according to the Hebrew custom.
All things, then, which are brought into existence are subject to corruption according to the law of their nature [1699] , and so even the heavens themselves are corruptible. But by the grace of God they are maintained and preserved [1700] . Only the Deity, however, is by nature without beginning and without end [1701] . Wherefore it has been said, They will perish, but Thou dost endure [1702] : nevertheless, the heavens will not be utterly destroyed. For they will wax old and be wound round as a covering, and will be changed, and there will be a new heaven and a new earth [1703] .
For the great part the heaven is greater than the earth, but we need not investigate the essence of the heaven, for it is quite beyond our knowledge.
It must not be supposed that the heavens or the luminaries are endowed with life [1704] . For they are inanimate and insensible [1705] . So that when the divine Scripture saith, Let the heavens rejoice and the earth be glad [1706] , it is the angels in heaven and the men on earth that are invited to rejoice. For the Scripture is familiar with the figure of personification, and is wont to speak of inanimate things as though they were animate: for example [1707] , The sea saw it and fled: Jordan was driven back [1708] . And again, What ailed thee, O thou sea, that thou fleddest? thou, O Jordan, that thou was driven back [1709] ? Mountains, too, and hills are asked the reason of their leaping in the same way as we are wont to say, the city was gathered together, when we do not mean the buildings, but the inhabitants of the city: again, the heavens declare the glory of God [1710] , does not mean that they send forth a voice that can be heard by bodily ears, but that from their own greatness they bring before our minds the power of the Creator: and when we contemplate their beauty we praise the Maker as the Master-Craftsman [1711] .
Taken from the same link..
The commentary aside, the Hebrew when looking up the number of each key word like Vault or heaven or firmament
etc. the evidence leans toward a sphere.
If it were a dome where did the waters for the springs of the deep in the flood come from and where does Haleys Comet go when it hits the alleged ice wall if the celestial bodies are trapped inside the dome of ice.
Well done. Looks like nobody really wanted a reasonable discussion of flat earth after all.
Psbindy said it gets less ridicule each time it’s posted. That doesn’t make it true it just means you repeated an unproven statement often enough to make it seem legit.
AnonI, Do you feel your comment is contributing to a “reasonable discussion” of the topic? I don’t.
You mention a comment I made: “Psbindy said it gets less ridicule each time it’s posted. That doesn’t make it true it just means you repeated an unproven statement often enough to make it seem legit.”
I agree less ridicule doesn’t make it true. That’s why I didn’t say less ridicule made it true. It was a simple observation of better reception from people who’ve only heard the unproven statement of a spherical Earth often enough to believe without examination.
It’s the spherical model that doesn’t withstand observation.
My comment was reasonable. Here’s your words
“Let me expand on gatsby1219’s correct but succinct reply.
If we truly existed in a mind-bendingly vast universe rather than a large but humanly comprehensible abode clearly made for the children of Adam to live and thrive, it is easier for mankind to believe that in such a vast arena, random chance might allow for life to arise out of non-living material. No need for a God creator when both time and distance are crazy vast. Heck, random chance will do.
Same thing for the age of creation.
Us humans do not see evolution in progress.
Where are the large fauna at the halfway point of transitioning into a completely different organism? It’s so slow the universe MUST be billions (13 to 16 is the current fashionable number) for the unobservable processes to have taken place. Otherwise the great THEORIES of the great professors would be wrong.
God indeed. Pish-tosh as any modern Major General would tell you.
Gatsby’s comment was only correct to you.
How does the rest of your comment contribute to reasonable discussion when you’ve injected enough conjecture for 10 Greek Philosophers. Is your God that small.
Being at sea in the S. pacific in the dry season and looking up it’s easier to count the black spots than the stars and it filled me with awe and I realized how puny I am compared to God.
Did you ask God what is humanely comprehensible for humans to to thrive? Did you ever look up the Hebrew words for the ‘Dome”?
You make no sense. You can debate anonymous tomorrow.
Ok person who cannot be bothered to pick a unique commenter name so the rest of the TBPers can have some idea of your commenting history, I’ll be a sport and play your silly game.
Hint: His mom probably didn’t name him Hardscrabble, but when you see his user name on a comment you have a general idea of where that person is coming from.
In any case, you said “PSbindy, you commented so matter of factly as though you were the infallible Vicar of Christ many might be tempted to accept it as gospel. I would like a little evidence that can be traced and evaluated.”
What the heck is an “infallible vicar of Christ”? Are you a cult member of some stripe?
As far as me responding to the extensive cut and paste body of your comment, you’ll have to condense it in your own words for me to bother considering a response.
If you wish to believe that the Earth is but a micro mote of dust orbiting a non descript star located between radial arms of a non descript galaxy among billions of other galaxies, I won’t fault you. After all it’s what has been presented as ‘science’ for hundreds of years.
But the gist of the flat Earth movement is that observation does not support a spherical Earth. Some people are investigating. You do whatever makes you comfortable.
His symbol or Icon is easily recognizable to me. He left the reply a long time ago so maybe hes asleep by now.
I thought it was a good reply and his opening remarks were loaded with information unlike yours. His copying of “Concerning the Heaven.
Exposition of the Orthodox Faith — John of Damascus” who was esteemed highly enough to speak for them is way beyond your paygrade.
Your own reply is a full of holes as your first and to pretend to not know what or who the Infallible Vicar Of Christ is was pretty lame.
Furthermore, he did not say or imply the earth is a mote in a nondescript galaxy. He presented a biblical response from a neutral position after spending a lot of time with the Hebrew and concordance which he linked. No mean feat but you blew it off because it didn’t fit your own “But the gist of the flat Earth movement is that observation does not support a spherical Earth” when I would say the opposite.
He closed by saying the scriptures lean toward a spherical earth and ended with two very serious questions that you blew off as well.
Scripture always proves real science and has never supported the junk science you mention or implied he was supporting.
All in all you took some cheap shots and presented nothing outside of your own personal opinion.
You appear to have gotten upset that someone challenged your opinion presented as knowledge.
anonI, thanks for the heads-up about the unique to each poster icon. I hadn’t noticed that.
You say: “Exposition of the Orthodox Faith — John of Damascus” who was esteemed highly enough to speak for them is way beyond your paygrade.” Well that certainly could be. Maybe that’s one of the reasons I didn’t expound on it. I DID mention that it was an EXTENSIVE cut and paste which needed to be much more concise and in his own words because of the inordinate length. I didn’t mention that it was an appeal to authority logical fallacy, so I’ll mention it now. If the great professor Fru Fru or John of Damascus says so, then it must be so, is not solid logic.
Then you say: “Your own reply is a full of holes as your first and to pretend to not know what or who the Infallible Vicar Of Christ is was pretty lame.” I won’t ask you to point out the “holes” in my reply but I’ll read them if you care to list them. Of course I know what or whom “the Infallible Vicar (representative) of Christ is. I just don’t hold with either his vicarage and even more so his infallibility. I was hoping to prompt a defense of that title bestowed on a jewel bedecked human.
You further post: “Scripture always proves real science and has never supported the junk science you mention or implied he was supporting.” I agree Scripture supports science. Science corrects past scientific errors such as spherical Earth. That is what is happening now. I am merely agreeing with Eric Dubai’s video in general. He has some orbital physics wrong but for the most part is demonstrating that the spherical theory can be refuted by observation. Calling it “junk science” without examination is pretty much a cheap shot on your part. What I did imply he was supporting, is the vast universe theory which I described correctly.
You finish with:”All in all you took some cheap shots and presented nothing outside of your own personal opinion.
You appear to have gotten upset that someone challenged your opinion presented as knowledge.”
You seem upset. In my opinion, Eric Dubai made a fine summation of the currently ongoing investigation of what appears to be a long held, long unexamined, incorrect model of God’s creation .
You are entitled to your opinion.
Thanks Anon, that was…detailed.
watch the video
The United States Of America is a Democratic Republic of Independent States not a democracy so are they all that ignorant or are they in lock step with the overthrow of the US and the control and subjugation of free independent citizens making them slaves to the oligarchs that own and operate the state !
To my knowledge every State but one gave up their independence when they accepted the administrative procedures act in the latter part of the 20th century. They gave up their representation in Congress with the 17th amendment to the constitution. The United States is a corporation that replaced the original federal government which was the United States of the America. There is no Senate as it is specified in the constitution.
Taking back the government means kicking all the lawyers out of political office that are members of the BAR which is not recognized in the constitution.
We have a constitutional republic. Doesn’t it annoy the crap out of anybody else these shitheads breathlessly bleat nonstop about “our democracy?”
All the cookie-cutter conservatives feel your pain of untenable narrative orthodoxy. Bask in your rectitude and carry on.
It bothers me. Perhaps we should make it a requirement that those who want to vote should sign a paper that says they have read, understand and support the constitution.
Text worship must be a hopeless genetic condition.
We could make our office holders and military swear an oath to it. Then they would stop violating it.
It’s late. I’ve found myself caught up in rather tedious replies to several posters who are having an emotional reaction to a world view different from the one they are comfortable with and are invested in. I say their response is emotional because they are not arguing the points of observation contra a globe Earth presented by the people who espouse flat earth. Points fairly posited should be refuted with data and differing observation which would/could refute the position of the other side. I’ve seen no such refutation.
One guy says I must think I’m the Grand High Poobah of absolute incontrovertible infallibility. Now there’s a rational, scientific response. His buddy says I’m taking cheap shots. Dayum!
I didn’t establish this thread but was glad HSF did. My views are fairly well summed up by Eric Dubay’s video brought up in the comments section.
There are many discrepancies in our space program that simply would not be existing if it were straight forward as presented. Little head scratchers like where are the stars in pictures and videos of the space station? It’s always a black background. No stars like Star Trek. Why? Where are the stars in the photos and film from the moon landings? Where are they? Can’t the stars be photographed from space. Hubble says they can. Please don’t ask me my view of Hubble.
Where are the photos of earth from orbit? There are (supposedly) 500+ geo-stationary satellites 23,000 miles above the equator. There are THOUSANDS of satellites in non geo-synchronous orbit. Why don’t we have a daily, real time, feed of video of every square inch of the earth? We could match them with the weather radar over most of the land masses of earth. Instead we get computer generated images (CGI) of supposedly long exposures where all clouds are totally stationary for hours. Stationary all day everywhere across the Earth. When confronted, NASA ADMITS they are CGI. When I was young we called that: “Artist’s Conception.” WE HAVE NO PICTURES FROM SPACE! But don’t let that arouse curiosity or trouble you. Trust them. Mock those who question the “scientific” orthodoxy.
Werner von Braun, the NAZI scientist who headed the German V-2 rocket program and who was brought to the U.S. after WWII in operation paperclip to head NASAs rocketry program, had Psalm-19 graven on his tombstone. Look up Psalm-19.
My personal theory, which I’ve not seen elsewhere in the flat Earth community is there was no long time conspiracy dating back to Bruno speculating that stars were distant suns like our sun. No. I think astronomy developed legitimately with theories and mathematics containing the suppositions of gravity and orbital dynamics. I think, as soon as we had rockets capable of achieving very high altitudes, say very late 1940s/early 1950s, we began bumping into things. At that same time Admiral Byrd’s last expedition to Antarctica bumped into something too.
Like most people I had no reason to doubt the globe Earth model. It was presented as established fact for centuries.
So if anyone would like to have a discussion, pro or con, I’d be delighted to participate. Please don’t post a multi thousand word middle ages theology treatise and expect me to read it. C’mon man!
There are real discrepancies regarding the physical topology of our living space. Let’s explore. Let’s agree/disagree.
What is most appealing about the flat Earth for me is if correct, it blows away the theory of evolution and big bang creation.
EDIT TO ADD: If true, and I think it is, the flat Earth theory points to God.
Perfect summary, psbindy.
Thank you SL. Far from perfect though. Far from complete.
Please don’t post a multi thousand word middle ages theology treatise and expect me to read it. C’mon man!
All 70 full lines of type. Did you notice how long your comment is. 3 or 4 times that and then you tell me to read Psalms. Anon I covered Psalms 19 quite well with his description of sailing the pacific and being awe struck by the night skies. If you can squeeze all those stars under an ice dome you really are God.
I never once mention Space programs or evolution. Both dubious if not silly.
Meanwhile you completely disregard the 3 hours I poured over Genesis in Hebrew and 7 translations while saying I didn’t document anything why trying to discount the commentary of John of Damascus nor did you answer the simple questions I posed while presenting many of your own.
Horton hears a Who.