Donald Trump’s speech on Orlando shooting and national security

Thank you for joining me today.

This was going to be a speech on Hillary Clinton and how bad a President, especially in these times of Radical Islamic Terrorism, she would be.

Even her former Secret Service Agent, who has seen her under pressure and in times of stress, has stated that she lacks the temperament and integrity to be president.

There will be plenty of opportunity to discuss these important issues at a later time, and I will deliver that speech soon.

But today there is only one thing to discuss: the growing threat of terrorism inside of our borders.

The attack on the Pulse Nightclub in Orlando, Florida, was the worst terrorist strike on our soil since September 11th, and the worst mass shooting in our country’s history.

So many people dead, so many people gravely injured, so much carnage, such a disgrace.

The horror is beyond description.

The families of these wonderful people are totally devastated. Likewise, our whole nation, and indeed the whole world, is devastated.

We express our deepest sympathies to the victims, the wounded, and their families.

We mourn, as one people, for our nation’s loss – and pledge our support to any and all who need it.

I would like to ask now that we all observe a moment of silence for the victims of the attack.

[SILENCE]

Our nation stands together in solidarity with the members of Orlando’s LGBT Community.

This is a very dark moment in America’s history.

A radical Islamic terrorist targeted the nightclub not only because he wanted to kill Americans, but in order to execute gay and lesbian citizens because of their sexual orientation.

It is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation.

It is an assault on the ability of free people to live their lives, love who they want and express their identity.

It is an attack on the right of every single American to live in peace and safety in their own country.

We need to respond to this attack on America as one united people – with force, purpose and determination.

But the current politically correct response cripples our ability to talk and think and act clearly.

If we don’t get tough, and we don’t get smart – and fast – we’re not going to have a country anymore — there will be nothing left.

The killer, whose name I will not use, or ever say, was born to Afghan parents who immigrated to the United States. His father published support for the Afghan Taliban, a regime which murders those who don’t share its radical views. The father even said he was running for President of that country.

The bottom line is that the only reason the killer was in America in the first place was because we allowed his family to come here.

That is a fact, and it’s a fact we need to talk about.

We have a dysfunctional immigration system which does not permit us to know who we let into our country, and it does not permit us to protect our citizens.

We have an incompetent administration, and if I am not elected President, that will not change over the next four years — but it must change, and it must change now.

With fifty people dead, and dozens more wounded, we cannot afford to talk around the issue anymore — we have to address it head on.

I called for a ban after San Bernardino, and was met with great scorn and anger but now, many are saying I was right to do so — and although the pause is temporary, we must find out what is going on. The ban will be lifted when we as a nation are in a position to properly and perfectly screen those people coming into our country.

The immigration laws of the United States give the President the power to suspend entry into the country of any class of persons that the President deems detrimental to the interests or security of the United States, as he deems appropriate.

I will use this power to protect the American people. When I am elected, I will suspend immigration from areas of the world when there is a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe or our allies, until we understand how to end these threats.

After a full, impartial and long overdue security assessment, we will develop a responsible immigration policy that serves the interests and values of America.

We cannot continue to allow thousands upon thousands of people to pour into our country, many of whom have the same thought process as this savage killer.

Many of the principles of Radical Islam are incompatible with Western values and institutions.

Radical Islam is anti-woman, anti-gay and anti-American.

I refuse to allow America to become a place where gay people, Christian people, and Jewish people, are the targets of persecution and intimidation by Radical Islamic preachers of hate and violence.

It’s not just a national security issue. It is a quality of life issue.

If we want to protect the quality of life for all Americans – women and children, gay and straight, Jews and Christians and all people – then we need to tell the truth about Radical Islam.

We need to tell the truth, also, about how Radical Islam is coming to our shores.

We are importing Radical Islamic Terrorism into the West through a failed immigration system — and through an intelligence community held back by our president.

Even our own FBI Director has admitted that we cannot effectively check the backgrounds of the people we are letting into America.

All of the September 11th hijackers were issued visas.

Large numbers of Somali refugees in Minnesota have tried to join ISIS.

The Boston Bombers came here through political asylum.

The male shooter in San Bernardino – again, whose name I won’t mention — was the child of immigrants from Pakistan, and he brought his wife – the other terrorist – from Saudi Arabia, through another one of our easily exploited visa programs.

Immigration from Afghanistan into the United States has increased nearly five-fold in just one year. According to Pew Research, 99% of people in Afghanistan support oppressive Sharia Law.

We admit many more from other countries in the region who share these same oppressive views.

If we want to remain a free and open society, then we have to control our borders.

Yet, Hillary Clinton – for months and despite so many attacks – repeatedly refused to even say the words “radical Islam,” until I challenged her yesterday to say the words or leave the race.

However, Hillary Clinton – who has been forced to say the words today after policies she supports have caused us so much damage – still has no clue what Radical Islam is, and won’t speak honestly about what it is.

She is in total denial, and her continuing reluctance to ever name the enemy broadcasts weakness across the world.

In fact, just a few weeks before the San Bernardino slaughter, Hillary Clinton explained her refusal to say the words Radical Islam. Here is what she said: “Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people, and have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.”

Hillary Clinton says the solution is to ban guns. They tried that in France, which has among the toughest gun laws in the world, and 130 were brutally murdered by Islamic terrorists in cold blood. Her plan is to disarm law-abiding Americans, abolishing the 2nd amendment, and leaving only the bad guys and terrorists with guns. She wants to take away Americans’ guns, then admit the very people who want to slaughter us.

I will be meeting with the NRA, which has given me their earliest endorsement in a Presidential race, to discuss how to ensure Americans have the means to protect themselves in this age of terror.

The bottom line is that Hillary supports the policies that bring the threat of Radical Islam into America, and allow it to grow overseas.

In fact, Hillary Clinton’s catastrophic immigration plan will bring vastly more Radical Islamic immigration into this country, threatening not only our security but our way of life.

When it comes to Radical Islamic terrorism, ignorance is not bliss – it’s deadly.

The Obama Administration, with the support of Hillary Clinton and others, has also damaged our security by restraining our intelligence-gathering and failing to support law enforcement. They have put political correctness above common sense, above your safety, and above all else.

I refuse to be politically correct.

I will do the right thing–I want to straighten things out and to Make America Great Again.

The days of deadly ignorance will end, and they will end soon.

As President I will give our intelligence community, law enforcement and military the tools they need to prevent terrorist attacks.

We need an intelligence-gathering system second to none. That includes better cooperation between state, local and federal officials – and with our allies.

I will have an Attorney General, a Director of National Intelligence, and a Secretary of Defense who will know how to fight the war on Radical Islamic Terrorism – and who will have the support they require to get the job done.

We also must ensure the American people are provided the information they need to understand the threat.

The Senate Subcommittee on Immigration has already identified hundreds of immigrants charged with terrorist activities inside the United States since September 11th.

Nearly a year ago, the Senate Subcommittee asked President Obama’s Departments of Justice, State and Homeland Security to provide the immigration history of all terrorists inside the United States.

These Departments refused to comply.

President Obama must release the full and complete immigration histories of all individuals implicated in terrorist activity of any kind since 9/11.

The public has a right to know how these people got here.

We have to screen applicants to know whether they are affiliated with, or support, radical groups and beliefs.

We have to control the amount of future immigration into this country to prevent large pockets of radicalization from forming inside America.

Even a single individual can be devastating, just look at what happened in Orlando. Can you imagine large groups?

Truly, our President doesn’t know what he is doing. He has failed us, and failed us badly, and under his leadership, this situation will not get any better — it will only get worse.

Each year, the United States permanently admits more than 100,000 immigrants from the Middle East, and many more from Muslim countries outside the Middle East. Our government has been admitting ever-growing numbers, year after year, without any effective plan for our security.

In fact, Clinton’s State Department was in charge of the admissions process for people applying to enter from overseas.

Having learned nothing from these attacks, she now plans to massively increase admissions without a screening plan, including a 500% increase in Syrian refugees.

This could be a better, bigger version of the legendary Trojan Horse.

We can’t let this happen.

Altogether, under the Clinton plan, you’d be admitting hundreds of thousands of refugees from the Middle East with no system to vet them, or to prevent the radicalization of their children.

The burden is on Hillary Clinton to tell us why she believes immigration from these dangerous countries should be increased without any effective system to screen who we are bringing in.

The burden is on Hillary Clinton to tell us why we should admit anyone into our country who supports violence of any kind against gay and lesbian Americans.

The burden is also on Hillary Clinton to tell us how she will pay for it. Her plan will cost Americans hundreds of billions of dollars long-term.

Wouldn’t this money be better spent on rebuilding America for our current population, including the many poor people already living here?

We have to stop the tremendous flow of Syrian refugees into the United States – we don’t know who they are, they have no documentation, and we don’t know what they’re planning.

What I want is common sense. I want a mainstream immigration policy that promotes American values.

That is the choice I put before the American people: a mainstream immigration policy designed to benefit America, or Hillary Clinton’s radical immigration policy designed to benefit politically-correct special interests.

We’ve got to get smart, and tough, and vigilant, and we’ve got to do it now, because later is too late.

The media talks about “homegrown,” terrorism, but Islamic radicalism, and the networks that nurture it, are imports from overseas.

Yes, there are many radicalized people already inside our country as a result of the poor policies of the past. But the whole point is that it will be much, much easier to deal with our current problem if we don’t keep on bringing in people who add to the problem.

For instance, the controversial Mosque attended by the Boston Bombers had as its founder an immigrant from overseas charged in an assassination plot.

This shooter in Orlando was the child of an immigrant father who supported one of the most repressive regimes on Earth. Why would we admit people who support violent hatred?

Hillary Clinton can never claim to be a friend of the gay community as long as she continues to support immigration policies that bring Islamic extremists to our country who suppress women, gays and anyone who doesn’t share their views.

She can’t have it both ways. She can’t claim to be supportive of these communities while trying to increase the number of people coming in who want to oppress them.

How does this kind of immigration make our life better? How does this kind of immigration make our country better?

Why does Hillary Clinton want to bring people here—in vast numbers—who reject our values?

Ask yourself, who is really the friend of women and the LGBT community, Donald Trump with his actions, or Hillary Clinton with her words? Clinton wants to allow Radical Islamic terrorists to pour into our country—they enslave women, and murder gays.

I don’t want them in our country.

Immigration is a privilege, and we should not let anyone into this country who doesn’t support our communities – all of our communities.

America has already admitted four times more immigrants than any country on earth, and we continue to admit millions more with no real checks or scrutiny.

Not surprisingly, wages for our workers haven’t budged in many years.

So whether it’s matter of national security, or financial security, we can’t afford to keep on going like this. We owe $19 trillion in debt, and no longer have options.

All our communities, from all backgrounds, are ready for some relief. This is not an act of offense against anyone; it is an act of defense.

I want us all to work together, including in partnership with our Muslim communities. But Muslim communities must cooperate with law enforcement and turn in the people who they know are bad – and they do know where they are.

I want to fix our schools, roads, bridges and job market. I want every American to succeed. Hillary Clinton wants to empty out the Treasury to bring people into the country that include individuals who preach hate against our own citizens.

I want to protect our citizens – all of our citizens.

The terrorist attack on the Pulse Night Club demands a full and complete investigation into every aspect of the assault.

In San Bernardino, as an example, people knew what was going on, but they used the excuse of racial profiling for not reporting it.

We need to know what the killer discussed with his relatives, parents, friends and associates.

We need to know if he was affiliated with any radical Mosques or radical activists and what, if any, is their immigration status.

We need to know if he travelled anywhere, and who he travelled with.

We need to make sure every single last person involved in this plan – including anyone who knew something but didn’t tell us – is brought to justice.

If it can be proven that somebody had information about any attack, and did not give this information to authorities, they must serve prison time .

America must do more – much more – to protect its citizens, especially people who are potential victims of crimes based on their backgrounds or sexual orientations.

It also means we must change our foreign policy.

The decision to overthrow the regime in Libya, then pushing for the overthrow of the regime in Syria, among other things, without plans for the day after, have created space for ISIS to expand and grow.

These actions, along with our disastrous Iran deal, have also reduced our ability to work in partnership with our Muslim allies in the region.

That is why our new goal must be to defeat Islamic terrorism, not nation-building.

For instance, the last major NATO mission was Hillary Clinton’s war in Libya. That mission helped unleash ISIS on a new continent.

I’ve said NATO needs to change its focus to stopping terrorism. Since I’ve raised that criticism, NATO has since announced a new initiative focused on just that.

America must unite the whole civilized world in the fight against Islamic terrorism, just like we did against communism in the Cold War.

We’ve tried it President Obama’s way. He gave the world his apology tour, we got ISIS, and many other problems, in return.

I’d like to conclude my remarks today by again expressing our solidarity with the people of Orlando who have come under attack.

When I am President, I pledge to protect and defend all Americans who live inside of our borders. Wherever they come from, wherever they were born, all Americans living here and following our laws will be protected.

America will be a tolerant and open society.

America will also be a safe society.

We will protect our borders at home.

We will defeat ISIS overseas.

We will ensure every parent can raise their children in peace and safety.

We will make America rich again.

We will make America safe again.

We will make American Great Again.

Thank you.


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251 Comments
Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
June 14, 2016 4:22 pm

Oh yeah

1000+ for Unconstrained. I’m not holding my breath for Dookie’s response…

reason..

I think I just witnessed a drive-by shooting of a Pepper!

Stubb
Stubb
June 14, 2016 4:48 pm

I had to look up “pepper”. This is what I found on the online urban dictionary website: “a situation where a guy finds it hot to have someone put a finger in their butt, but the other involved party finds it disturbing and stinky”. The sentence example was “Doug was all cool until he asked me to pepper him.”

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
June 14, 2016 5:15 pm

Stubb

That definition is much funnier. I was being reasonably nice to Dookie last night until he insulted Nova Scotians. Anyways the Quebecois are an odd bunch. Even their swear words suck donkey balls., Peppers believe it or not it has to do with soda pop. Now Dookie might be an Anglo but he likely has a bit of french in him.

Yeah and Dookie can blow me!

Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 14, 2016 5:28 pm

In response to Unconstrained, you have lived up to your name.

That was LONG! So many words that amount to nothing…

Here’s Occam’s Razor in effect:

Every reported incident of mass bad stuff is related to some ‘outsider’ group. Then, the characteristics of the ‘outsider’ are viewed as causal to the carnage.

The killer claimed allegiance to ISIL as well as sympathies and allegiances to various other violent extremist groups, some of which are diametrically opposed to ISIL. This is from the various agencies investigating the crime.

So Trump makes the argument (a stretch) that even being of parents who are from countries hostile to us is what truly motivates the killer. Then he double-tracks and says that all people from some country of origin are surely hostile to us if their country is.

The point remains a fact: This guy was American. He was also very angry at GAYS, and that’s who he killed. You can take your Islamophobic nonsense to another horrible incident, in this one the glove doesn’t fit.

This was also the case (if there ever is one) for LEGAL IMMIGRANTS being accused of a crime that only ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS could be accused of going forward. Nice one.

Why would I care if a person facing federal charges could help us? Making assumptions much? It’s called a false dichotomy or bifurcation, you should look those up.

If I make a call to the New York Yankees and claim that I am a great baseball player, does that make me a New York Yankee? I asked if this guy was a wannabe, which I feel is not yet proven but neither is his ties to extremists (except in his own mind and those who want to convict on shoddy evidence.)

My defense of my education and profession came after unsolicited attacks, much like the reaction of the protesters at the Trump rallies. OOOH, I am going to get a REACTION for that one 🙂

I will never hide my education, nor will I back down from an honest debate. Regarding this one, I ma make an exception.

Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 14, 2016 5:53 pm

Rob, study culture much?

French swear words are derived from liturgical terms used out of context and setting.

This is why “Hostie” is the most offensive word in the language, because it context is so particular to Catholics. It is “vulgarized”.

English swear words have to do with the foulness of some substance (usually organic and liquid) or the juvenile giddiness about certain parts of the human anatomy (usually female) and an adolescent attitude towards sexual contact or acts.

A far cry from your explanation, non?

Unconstrained
Unconstrained
June 14, 2016 6:15 pm

Dung @ 5:28 pm says: “nor will I back down from an honest debate”

Yet, you are NOT being honest. This is my point.

You say: “Every reported incident of mass bad stuff is related to some ‘outsider’ group. Then, the characteristics of the ‘outsider’ are viewed as causal to the carnage.”

What was the outsider group for Sandyhook? What was the outsider group for the Charleston Church killings. When you say “every reported incident of mass bad stuff”, you are wrong, dumbass. Admit this and check your premises.

The only thing ALL OF THESE mass causality events had in common with all others (including Orlando) was the common desire of the American political left (and elite globalists) to plunder the guns from all American citizens who were NOT involved. Never let a crisis go to waste, right? Yet, politicians like Obama and Hillary Clinton require armed security for themselves while mandating “gun free zones” for the rest of us. Can you see this connection? Do you approve? Be honest.

You also say: “The killer claimed allegiance to ISIL as well as sympathies and allegiances to various other violent extremist groups, some of which are diametrically opposed to ISIL. This is from the various agencies investigating the crime.”

What agencies? What other groups? Post the link describing the agencies as well as the “other groups” diametrically opposed to ISIL. If you don’t, then you are dishonest in this debate and merely spouting what you “wish” to be true. Prove it.

And, above all, you yourself concede the Orlando killer claimed allegiance to ISIL.

How does this make me Islamaphobic?

Furthermore, why would a follower of Islam kill gays? Can you think of any reason? Why does the “Islamic glove not fit” in your mind? Why are you contorting yourself, and using word games, to diminish Islam as a motive in the mind of the Orlando killer? Why Doogie? Why? Inquiring minds what to know!

Moreover, why are you attempting to differentiate between radical followers of Islam born in America as opposed to those born elsewhere? Why is this separation so seemingly important to you?

You also say “I asked if this guy was a wannabe, which I feel is not yet proven but neither is his ties to extremists (except in his own mind and those who want to convict on shoddy evidence.)”

If the evidence is so shoddy, then why are you so confindent in your stated positions?

In other words, what are you selling, Dung Pecker, and why? Be honest.

We are still waiting for your wisdom with breathless anticipation.

Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 14, 2016 6:44 pm

In all intellectual honesty, I grant Unconstrained the that the point that I made about “all” mass killings being done by outsiders was wrong. He is correct and he was only required to provide one instance; I made an error by using a universal premiss.

I did not ever bring up the issue of gun control, since I see these as separate issues deserving of separate debates.

However, on multiple allegiances I was asked to provide a source: http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKCN0YY08B

He claimed allegiance to ISIL the same way that I claimed to be a New York Yankee.

Perhaps he wasn’t a follower of Islam then, and killed gays because he had a lunatic fantasy about them, having seen two homosexuals kiss the night prior. That too is motive, but it doesn’t feed your invectives. You’d rather it be a stretchy Religious war than a fairly obvious attack on lifestyle by someone who likely couldn’t differetiate between the two.

If you think that I support Radicalism, then hear this: It would be absolute insanity for me to support radicals and I support your antipathy towards them. We differ on what makes one a radical, or what constitutes a radical in the first place.

Using ones religious beliefs is a lousy indicator, scientifically. You’ll find that your indicator worked 100 000 times in 15 000 000 000. That’s one in one and a half million. Pretty lousy indicator, and that’s just math.

So I have to ask this question in response to yours|: Why are you so desperate to tie this to religious faith? Does his threaten yours? Is this a religious pissing contest?

Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 14, 2016 7:24 pm

Administrator: Post hoc, ergo propter hoc is a fallacy.

So many causes, so little time.

But I’m sure you have that fallacious reasoning handy for cut-and-paste convenience.

The whole of the Fundamentalist-Literalist-Puritan foundation of the principles you and certain others in this group hold are principles found also in the KKK and any other supremacy group. Does that make you one?

Only your actions and arguments will, and if you keep thinking that because it comes after or with X, it is therefore caused by X.

Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 14, 2016 7:48 pm

When I wall at night and there’s a full mooname, it seems to follow me.

That is an example of the post hoc fallacy. Should be easyour to understand yet you have no comeback to it…

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
June 14, 2016 7:54 pm

Oui Dookie

Juvenile, Organic WTF!

Yeah I know a bit of French. I know your swear words. And now you want to tell us that your swear words are more refined than ours. Well boy howdy ain’t that something to be proud of. Never heard that before from a pea souper. Man you were standing in the wrong line when they were handing out common sense. You need to really pick up your game. Anyways ROC is tired of you whiners next time you decide to leave have a referendum make it for good instead what happened last time.

I’ll have to get transcript of the bold declaration of Independance. For now I’ll paraphrase

We are done non.
Today we are free Oui
Free of the Evil Anglo Overlords…

But Friday nous retournons
with Blowjobs for everyone
Parce que it is the end of the month and we need our cheque from Alberta…

Unconstrained
Unconstrained
June 14, 2016 8:00 pm

Doogie, it is obvious for all to see that you drink the Koolaid served to you by the Mainstream media and our fearless Government leaders. You seem to believe you are a critical thinker, discerning, and defending, truth. Yet, all you do is believe and repeat what you are told. You don’t question motives, understand what is at stake or even recognize what is happening before right before your very eyes.

This is why you consider “gun control as a separate debate”.

It’s why you don’t understand the global elite’s goal of world government, the Hegelian Dialectic, Ordo ab Chao or that the fact there are 500 newspapers, 1,100 magazines, 9,000 radio stations, 1,500 TV stations and 2,400 publishers: all owned by only 6 corporations.

It’s why you don’t understand the overt attempts at obfuscation in the statement below (from your post above):

“Mateen had made comments favorable to multiple armed Islamist movements and people, which adds a little bit to the confusion about his motives. President Barack Obama said Mateen was likely a homegrown extremist.”

You don’t see the need for the Powers That Be to “add a little bit of confusion” to the Orlando massacre or Obama’s usage of the term: “homegrown extremist”.

In truth, you are a sheep being led to the slaughter. A lemming walking over a cliff. You are the quintessential blind man who refuses to “see”. Indeed, you will do anything to ignore the obvious even if means close-mindedly focusing on individual plastic “trees” within the proverbial “forest” of geopolitics.

It’s the reason why you posted: “Post hoc, ergo propter hoc is a fallacy” in response to Admin’s post above. It’s why you cannot connect what is written in the Koran with the examples of Islamic violence regarding Admin’s posts above.

It’s why you cannot calculate the “math” regarding Radical Islam. It’s why you would rather conflate the New York Yankees to ISIS, and the cause of 50 dead people in Orlando, to “Homophobia” sparked by the killer allegedly seeing “two men kissing”.

Indeed, you are a definitely a caliphate loving towelhead’s wet dream.

And, to answer your question: I am not “desperate to tie this to religious faith”. I believe my comments show zero desperation. Especially in comparison to your own (+ the mainstream media’s and political left’s) obvious desperation in removing any “ties” to what happened in Orlando with Islam.

You still haven’t let us know why you are so desperate to spin the Orlando shooter’s clearly self-admitted motives. He admitted them, dumbass!!! Why are you so reluctant to take him at his own word? Why is it wrong, in your mind, for me to do so?

Regardless, it all really is very noble of you.

And I fully understand. I do. Because, if Christian bakers received such leniency on behalf of people like you, the press and our Government, then, the LGBT community would have a few less options to where they might purchase cake.

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
June 14, 2016 8:03 pm

In case you Yanks don’t believe me here is the bold declaration of independence from 1995

“Do you agree that Québec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Québec and of the agreement signed on 12 June 1995?.”

Aint’ exactly “We the People” prose.

So fuck you Dookie!

Full Retard
Full Retard
June 14, 2016 8:42 pm

Unconscionable, you’ve come a long way, baby!

Unaltered
Unaltered
June 14, 2016 9:08 pm

Sobriety helps. 🙂

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
June 14, 2016 9:09 pm

“Post hoc, ergo propter hoc”

Doug,

I don’t think it applies in this case and just spitting it out doesn’t give it validity. If you understand it then you should be able to explain to EXACTLY what it applies and why.

Awaiting a reasoned response.

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
June 14, 2016 9:36 pm

There is a lot more to this thing than we are being told. There are now several reports of multiple assailants of some type. Here is another.

Unconstrained
Unconstrained
June 14, 2016 9:57 pm

If this is the case, all of the alleged assailants must have seen men kissing other men, eh?

Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 14, 2016 10:10 pm

So Rob in Nova Scotia… Did you miss that I simply explained the origins and etymologies of both sets of swear words, in response to your crappy explanation? Then you misheard my explanation and attributed some sort of normative evaluation to it? They’re both pretty crazy, that was my point (but you missed it seeking to paint me as an élitist.)

Because I’m from Québec I must be a separatist, just like all people from Muslim countries are terrorists I guess. Did you notice my name is Doug Becker? I’m English, a-hole!

Unconstrained – thanks for the lesson in conspiracy theory. If you have to place all those actors and elements in their particular order so that they fall like dominoes precisely as you predicted, it’s a conspiracy theory. The issues today all resolve down to Jefferson versus Hamilton, or do you not know your own history?

Ah, but then you move beyond the post hoc argument and get to actual causality. It’s their scripture that is corrupt and corrupting them! In this you see a reflection of yourself and your kind though, the Puritans and the Fundamentalists and the whole “American Exceptionalism” crap. At best, 100 000 people read the scriptures that way, same ration as we have here. And yet you’re saying that is the correct interpretation? You, sir, are the same as them in your beliefs.

Why do I not take a crazed killer’s man at his own words? Because he’s crazed, that’s why. I’m not trying to defend Muslims, I don’t give a shit about them and they (on the overall) don’t need defending anyway. I certainly would not defend the exceptions or any other deranged homicidal for that matter. Bifurcation, son!

Francois, I did explain post hoc ergo propter hoc. It is the fallacy of believing that since something always seems to accompany something else, it must cause it. Ergo, the (mistyped) analogy: I always get followed by the moon when I walk at night. Yet I am neither the cause of the moon’s movement nor is it’s movement special to me. The two are associated, not causal.

A bunch of instances of association, even a million of them would be disqualified by one simple alternative explanation of cause.

Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 14, 2016 10:23 pm

The killer gained access to radical idea through the internet.

So let’s build a wall around that too, and prevent future attacks….

Sound like a dumb plan that would restrict our freedoms? Ya gotta be careful what you wish for.

Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 14, 2016 10:27 pm

And STILL absolutely no rebuttal of my evidence of the “doctoring” of the speech in this post… That’s telling.

We all know The Donald needs help expressing himself.

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
June 14, 2016 10:31 pm

Up above Doogie said:
“You always ignore any points I make anyway, so you’re like a dead mouse. I had my fun.”

The last four words say it all. He’s just a pathetic little troll craving the attention his mommy didn’t give him. Sounds like hammer time to me.

Stucky
Stucky
June 14, 2016 10:41 pm

Doug Becker is the king of assholes. But, he’s a sneaky bastard;

1. He never directly responds ro ANY of your arguments.
2. He keeps piling on more and more bullshit.
3. You will never convince him of a single point you’re making.

You’re being played.

wip
wip
June 14, 2016 10:53 pm

Aaaaaaaaand, the winner is Unconstrained by a knockout!!!!!

Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 14, 2016 10:56 pm

A fictitious exchange, since you insist I comment on guns:

– They want to take away our guns.

– What do you need the guns for?

– To protect ourselves against bad guys.

– Do bad guys sometimes have guns?

– Yeah, that’s why we need the guns.

– Why does the bad guy want a gun?

– Because I got my freedom.

– The freedom you need a gun to protect?

– I’ll protect my freedom by any means necessary.

– So you’ll protect yourself, but not anybody else?

– Of course I will. I will protect my brothers and sisters.

– Those that share the same values as you. And I guess you’ll protect that freedom against anyone you feel doesn’t share the same values as you. What values might those be?

– Freedom.

– Is that it?

– Well, there’s life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness…

– Don’t you think others might have those same values?

– They don’t, and not because I took them away either. Don’t you twist my words now!

– You subscribe to a theory of ‘natural’ rights, rights that come not by way of government but by virtue of being human.

– Yep.

– But not all humans have those rights.

– All men are created equal they tells me, ‘cept them foreigners and blacks and women and people who don’t own no land.

– So you protect the rest?

– Yep, against those who got jealous because we got freedom.

– But you also got, (as a result of freedom,) life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

– I didn’t take those away from anybody, they just ain’t got those values naturally.

– So now, because of inequality, you need guns. Your pursuit of happiness made you need guns to protect your happiness. Guns don’t bring happiness though, do they?

– Depends what end of the barrel you lookin’ at!

This is an example of a straw man. I deliberately drew the characters as I needed them for the presentation of that particular view.

This is what has been going on in this forum since its inception.

An echo chamber of pure constructed narrative, nothing more.

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
June 14, 2016 11:06 pm

Dookie

You are the one who said, “despise the rest of Canada”, or words to that effect.I can now be assured that you are an apologist for political correctness. Not only do you drop to your knees for Radical Islamic terrorists you do it for Pequistes as well! And yeah I already surmised that you are an Anglo. I even mentioned it in an earlier post. You have proven over and over again that you are not going to address the substance of anything posed by anyone bothering to put forward reasoned facts. You are a troll! So it’s either you are continuing to insult us with your ignorance or you are too stupid to see it for what it is. So what is it?

There are now reports of more than one shooter at that night club. Does it concern you that nobody in government or MSM wants to address this. Sounds a little fishy to me that one man would be able to shoot over one hundred people without being brought down by someone while reloading. See that is point of Trump’s speech. Why is it soo hard for liberals to even utter the words Islamic Extremist. I think I know why. 30 years of indoctrination at so-called schools of higher education. We now have a zombie army marching around spouting 3rd wave intersectional oppression dogma. Anyone who disagrees is labeled a rascist or backward. It is a dogma of shit piled on shit. Then you smug assholes when confronted with facts do as you have in all of your posts.

You deflect. But you graduated with a Soc degree. Why should I be surprised. You folks would likely debate that 2+2 equals 5 and write a paper about it.

Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 14, 2016 11:16 pm

Rob, where or when did I say “despite the rest of Canada”?

How do I drop to my knees for anyone? That sounds like a quote from Donald to me (He’d get down on his knees for me.) What’s this obsession with male-on-male fellatio?

Everyone here is pissed-off because I made rebuttals to most of their arguments, so how do you support “You have proven over and over again that you are not going to address the substance of anything posed by anyone bothering to put forward reasoned facts.”?

The solution to all this is to reduce education down to a semester’s worth of investigation that could be summarized on a matchbook cover? Why does that sound like Trump U?

I deflect (which really is broadening the discussion) while you project. Most of your views are identical to those of the fanatics on the other side of the world.

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
June 14, 2016 11:21 pm

Doug,

I didn’t ask for a definition. Most people on this board know what it means. I asked where you think it applies and why you think it is valid in that instance.

Still waiting. Please explain.

Thank you.

Francis

Maggie
Maggie
June 14, 2016 11:22 pm

Sometimes, when I’ve been offline for a few days, I like to come here and see how the discussion on certain articles played out. The place is interesting in that way. This comment thread is a jewel.

Somewhere in the mix
Fabulous says:

No republicans or Christians shot anyone at the nightclub. However their hate distaste or whatnot motivates them, it didn’t motivate them to mass murder Saturday night. However, a Muslim man born of Afghan parents whose father supports a group that kills queers, motivated by his hate , fueled by his religious faith, whose imam was connected to terrorists, in fact killed a whole bunch of happy dancers in a thriving nightclub Saturday night. No more, ” but they hate you too” arguments. That’s what’s known as a straw man argument. It has no merit.

You are interesting, Fabulous.

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
June 14, 2016 11:31 pm

Only a fuknut like Doogie would argue endlessly about shit that does not affect him and that he has no effect on.

He reminds of of the SouthPark depiction of Canada where they have square wheels and tires and their mouths have no hinge point.

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Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 14, 2016 11:31 pm

Francis, just because a person has certain characteristics doesn’t make those characteristics causal.

I’ll anticipate a possible rebuttal: It’s not that they’re (for example) black, it’s that they live in inner cities and have poorer educations.

That is a deflection. Count the number of Blacks from inner cities who did not commit any crimes and you’ve proven that there’s no causal relationship. Same for education, same for multiple wives and children or any other non-causal factor.

Explanation enough for you, or did I need to use Muslims in my example?

Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 14, 2016 11:34 pm

In the spirit of intellectual honesty, I think both sides are using opposing ‘patsy’s’ for their debate.

One side says that the number of guns is causal. Not provable.

The other says the number of immigrants is responsible. Not provable.

The American Sheeple truly are being played by their government, especially at this time.

But indenturedServant, if you think this doesn’t matter….

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
June 15, 2016 12:23 am

There ya have it folks, Dung Beetle has figured out that every person at TBP is a anti muslim, gun loving, tRump supporting republican that has no idea they’re being played by their government. Only took him a little over 24 hours to figure it out too.

He deserves a chocolate dildo and a coveted spot next to bb up on the Village Idiot Pedestal plus a ticket to see The Great Egress.

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
June 15, 2016 12:34 am

“just because a person has certain characteristics doesn’t make those characteristics causal.”

Doug,

You have been fucked with. You are not a stupid human being which is why I’m kind of surprised that by this stage in the game you haven’t fully figured it out. But then, maybe I shouldn’t be.

You complained about being dogged about your education that it was not your fault you brought it up and that the only reason you did so was because you were accused of having none. You were attacked in an ad hominem manner because you displayed a lack of understanding of your environment and the people in it. Then you responded in the exact manner that your attackers wanted. You revealed yourself. You showed weakness and things spiralled downward into more and more absurd directions. Admin’s characterization of a cat playing with it’s food is an apt characterization of what has happened here. Not because you are stupid but because you failed to understand the dynamic you waded into right out of the gate. What you lack is perspective and wisdom. Most of us who post here were lurkers for a very long period of time. When I first came to this web site I wan’t sure what the hell to think of it. It was months before I understood what was really happening and what the blog represents.

This is why it went sideways for you. You waltzed in and made assumptions without understanding the players or the context in which we play here. This is a play zone. We mess around with one another and when fresh meat walks through the door and makes assumptions based on a moments glance then more the better.

As for your explanation it is still inadequate because it lacks context. You made a statement that one does not follow the other. One what? What does not follow? There was a lot talked about in the preceding posts.

Your example of inner city whatever is fair. A geographical or physical characteristic does not preclude a certain type of behaviour. But an ideological bent does exactly that. How one thinks determines how one acts. “Post hoc, ergo propter hoc” does not apply in this instance. A radical Islamist (and for all intents and purposes this how the shooter appears to have defined himself regardless of how you may choose to psychoanalyze him) will kill gay people and other infidels because this is what he believes is right and proper. Your denial of this suggests you are either intellectually dishonest or you have an agenda.

The problem with Trump’s speech and with a lot of what Trump proposes is that A) It is like closing the gate after the horses have bolted and B) There is no guarantee that any of this will stop if he is able to implement any of his directives. That being said the idea that we should do nothing is equally as bad which means that in the end it is likely things will simply deteriorate until the entire system breaks down. Because that is where we are headed. A complete and utter break down of western civilization. Moreover, and as stated earlier, your dishonesty and abuse of logic does not help.

Have a good evening.

Doug Becker
Doug Becker
June 15, 2016 3:11 am

Francis, thanks for the helpful advice. But the cat example was mine, I did understand the dynamic but couldn’t believe it was possible, and apologized for assumptions even though I was surrounded by intellectual imposters.

We are now at the stage where we introduce terms like ‘ideology’ which is so fuzzy neither of us could determine its meaning. I think it’s at this point where polite conversationalists call it a night.

Doug.

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