The Wall, the Sound and the Fury: And Not Much Else

Guest Post by Fred Reed

Some of the prototypes.  Though I am not a construction engineer, it seems to me that 2,000 miles of any of these is more of a job than their proponents are telling us.

With regard to Mr. Trump’s  Border Wall, I am skeptical. Now, I freely concede that I am not an authority on Border Walls. In fact, I have never built a Border Wall. This may surprise readers. Yet it is true. So all that follows is in the nature of speculation. Be warned.

Still, though I may be horrifically wrong, and different numbers can be obtained by assuming different types of wall, I suggest that the following represent the kinds of questions that need to be answered. Further, it should be incumbent on those promoting the Wall to produce prices and times that make sense.

-----------------------------------------------------
It is my sincere desire to provide readers of this site with the best unbiased information available, and a forum where it can be discussed openly, as our Founders intended. But it is not easy nor inexpensive to do so, especially when those who wish to prevent us from making the truth known, attack us without mercy on all fronts on a daily basis. So each time you visit the site, I would ask that you consider the value that you receive and have received from The Burning Platform and the community of which you are a vital part. I can't do it all alone, and I need your help and support to keep it alive. Please consider contributing an amount commensurate to the value that you receive from this site and community, or even by becoming a sustaining supporter through periodic contributions. [Burning Platform LLC - PO Box 1520 Kulpsville, PA 19443] or Paypal

-----------------------------------------------------
To donate via Stripe, click here.
-----------------------------------------------------
Use promo code ILMF2, and save up to 66% on all MyPillow purchases. (The Burning Platform benefits when you use this promo code.)

All right, Mr. Trump has eight prototypes, but they run to 30 feet high, made of concrete, and go six feet underground to prevent tunneling. According to rumor among the border authorities, some go considerably deeper, and some prototypes are made of other materials. Here we will assume a hypothetical concrete wall thirty feet high and six feet deep.   In other words, thirty-six feet in vertical dimension.

Let us assume a thickness of six inches. Much less would be insecure, one supposes. We will ignore rebar. Actually, a glance at the photograph shows that, of whatever they be made, they are more than six inches thick, but we will ignore this.

The volume of concrete in the entire wall would thus be 2,000 miles x 5280 ft / mile x 36 ft x .5 ft, or 190,080,000 cubic feet.

Now, the wall presumably will have to be built in prefab sections at a remote factory or factories, and trucked to the Wall site on flatbed eighteen-wheelers. Donkeys would seem inadequate, helicopters excessive. Fabricating each section in situ  with some sort of traveling factory, requiring the trucking in of phenomenal amounts of concrete (or metal or whatever the Wall was made of), would be crazy even by the standards of federal contracting.

To be carried on a standard semi rig, sections could be no more than 8.5 feet wide. Each section would measure 36 ft. x .5 ft. x 8.5 ft, or or 153 cubic feet. Since concrete weights 145 pounds per cubic foot, the section would weigh 22,185 lbs.

Given that a semi can carry only about 45,000 pounds, each truck could carry only two sections. With special permission, not unusual for outsize loads, a semi might carry a section 10 feet wide. Then a single section would weigh 36 ft  x .5 x 10 ft  x 145 or 26,100 lbs, but then only one could be carried as two would weigh 52,200 lbs, way over the max weight for a semi load. Some other sort of Wall would weigh something else, but you would need a lot of trucks.

Since I don’t know the weights of the prototypes, the foregoing  calculations may be off. Show me how, and by how much for each prototype.

A mile being 5280 feet, each mile of wall would require 5280/8.5, sections, or 621. The entire wall would need 2000 miles x 621 sections per mile, or 1, 242,000 sections. That’s 621,000 truck loads.

Assume that the sections were manufactured exactly in the middle of the 2000 mile border. Each section would then have to be trucked an average of 500 miles to its place of installation. If built in California, an average of 1,000 miles. Buy trucking stocks. Of course more factories would mean fewer miles per section. So I figure Mr. Trump must be asking Congress for money for a bunch of factories. Otherwise I wouldn’t think he was serious.

Now, a concrete sail 30 feet high would presumably require a strong foundation to resist the enormous forces created by, say, a forty knot wind. In fact, a high, heavy wall presumably needs a strong foundation just not to collapse sideways in soft earth. Simply placing it in a six-foot ditch would not work. No?

Let us assume a foundation a foot wide on each side of the wall section  and, as noted, six feet deep to force migrants to dig a seven-foot hole. Again, just a guess from one who seldom builds international walls. The required volume of concrete will thus be about 2000 miles x 5280 feet/mile x 6 ft x 2 ft, or 126,720,000 cubic feet.

All of this would have to be trucked to its place of use from its place of mixing, and quickly enough to prevent premature hardening. If some stretches of border are too distant or the terrain not adequate, roads will have to be constructed and concrete mixed nearer to the Wall.

Adding the volume for the wall proper to the volume for the foundation, we get 126,720,000  plus 190,080,000 cubic feet, or 316, 800,000 cubic feet. This will weigh x 145, or 22,968,000 tons, all of which will have to be carried to the site of installation. Buy more truck stocks.

What will the Trump Wall cost? Dunno, but would NBC lie? I find:

” White House officials have suggested that the entire wall project could cost between $8 and $12 billion. And, internal DHS assessments suggest the cost could be higher — as much as $21 billion.“

I can think of no greater authorities on heavy construction than a pack of ideological yoyos in the White House who have probably never seen a shovel. The New York Times says $70 billion, and $150 million a year to maintenance.

So, $8 to $70 billion. The government doesn’t know how much the Wall will cost within a factor of about  9, or else is lying. Both are  consistent with federal practice. Note that federal projects typically involve very large overruns. Note also that in federal contracting a common tactic, which I saw often in my years covering the Pentagon, is to low-ball your bid and then, when the project is too far along to be cancelled, to discover that the cost will actually be, heh, rather more.

Over 2,000 miles, the $71 billion figure comes to  $35,500,000 per mile, or  $57,165 per section. The $21.7 billion figure gives $10,850,000  per mile, or $17,472 per section.  At $8 billion, $4,000,000 per  mile, or about $6,441 per section. Do you really think the government can buy a 36 by 8.5 by six inch reinforced concrete wall section, truck it a long distance, and erect it for…$6,441? Do you think that even the cheapest of the prototypes would cost so little?

How long will it take to complete this cement F-35? Wall, I mean. Wall. Press reports put time for completion at three years. That’s 660 miles per year. Uh...yeah.

Putting up 621 sections a month, or one mile a month, looks ambitions—over twenty a day. These are hugely heavy concrete slabs requiring a massive crane to set them in place, after which they would have to be tied to neighboring slabs in some manner and, presumably, a foundation poured.

Of course putting up 621 per month requires that the factories manufacture 621 per month. This is certainly not impossible, but will take rather more commitment than we see, which is almost none.

Let us be charitable and assume a mile a month for 2000 months. The Wall will take 167 years. Ten construction crews working at the optimistic rate of a mile a month would take 16.7 years. Mr. Trump has at most 84 months left in office, which would, again at a mile a month, come to 4.2% of the Wall.

Now, I do not know whether Mr. Trump could find the Pacific Ocean on a map of Hawaii. Perhaps so. I have no information on the matter. However, a developer of real estate can reasonably be expected to know something of costing construction.

If I were a cynic, which of course I am not, I might suspect the President of using the Wall to excite  his rubes while  not actually doing much about immigration, their chief focus.  Trump may be a trifle scattered, but he is one hell of a politician. Do we really expect him to send federal marshals to chase away illegals from businesses that depend on them–to shut down agribusiness in California, leave citrus crops to rot, shutter slaughter houses, and put CEOs in slam? Nah. Let’s talk the Wall, a distracting sparkle toy.

 

Note: I see about as well as a cave fish, so will probably have made arithmetic shiitakes which will bring howling mobs of commenters down on my head.  Hey, close enough for government work.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest
58 Comments
John Prokovich
John Prokovich
January 4, 2018 11:18 am

wall needed are the ones that are put around prisons. they work good,

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
January 4, 2018 11:19 am

So Fred doesn’t want to believe the guesstimate of our builder president or DHS, but wants to use the figure of the not-at-all biased and Carlos-Slim-controlled New York Slimes. Big surprise there. So what if it proves to be $70B? Big fucking deal. It’s a one time expense. Little Israel built 225 miles of its wall in three years. We’d recoup the cost quickly in reduced law enforcement costs and reduced social costs – not to mention a tax on remittances.
Opponents of the wall aren’t afraid it won’t work – they’re afraid it will.

prusmc
prusmc
  Iska Waran
January 4, 2018 1:36 pm

Israel’s wall goes much deeper and is much thicker. But Israel was serious about border security. Fred probably is correct and a wall is a non-starter. The idea of a tax on remitances makes sense. When the remitter files a 1040 any excess paid at time of remitance will be a tax credit to the filer and will be source of a refund. Furthermore, what prevents demanding EVerify being enforced days notice? I like the idea of troops guarding the areas between established border crossings.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
  Iska Waran
January 4, 2018 9:36 pm

225 miles in 3 years. That would mean the Iska wall of 2,250 miles could be completed in a mere 30 years. And this is not even concrete, I think you are referring to a wire mesh fence. The Iska fence doesn’t have that ring to it.

Anyways, for the reading impaired, let me summarize as only I can and have summarized since oh, 2011:

Fred is making dinner napkin calculations that should show the wall cannot be completed in our lifetime using currently unavailable cement plants. The logistics of it would strike fear in the heart of a Nazi general. It will cost mucho dinero, freedom isn’t free and neither is the new Iron Curtain.

Trump is pulling your pud, he can’t be serious if he is rational and he can’t be rational if he’s serious; this is no Schrodinger’s cat in the White House. Has anybody ever dated a liar? If your a man, surely you must have done so several times before catching on that you are the enabler of the liar, you make excuses for her, you blame your jealous nature, you believe every tear and snuffle proves she really was at home sound asleep when you stopped by to pick her up. Then one day you decide your tired of her playing 44DD chess; entering those other dimensions just to keep up with her fabrications taxes your ability to suspend disbelief.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  EL Coyote
January 4, 2018 11:17 pm

our GDP is 60 times that of Israel.

MrLiberty
MrLiberty
January 4, 2018 12:05 pm

Until the government welfare state (including “free” government schooling) is abolished FOR ALL, the parasites will continue to come in droves, wall or no wall. A multi-billion dollar wall is just more cost, while abolishing the welfare state would put hundreds of billions back in everyone’s pockets (or provide monies for repair of infrastructure, etc. – not my libertarian preference). Nobody wants to talk about all the freebies because SO MANY are helping themselves, and SO MANY are buying votes with these giveaways.

A wall big enough to keep everyone out, is also big enough to keep everyone in. And you know how upset Uncle Sam gets when one of his slaves decides to run away from the tax slavery plantation.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
  MrLiberty
January 6, 2018 1:05 am

Not to mention if Trump goes through on a deal on DACA and allows the illegals to stay. Sure, it will keep the illegals out. Just like Kennedy’s deal kept them out, which is the result we’re dealing with today. Send all the illegals back home and maybe a message will get sent as well.

sionnach liath
sionnach liath
January 4, 2018 12:08 pm

I have said for the past several years, the best wall will be a human wall. Bring all those troops home from places in the world they have no place being, and station them along the border. Let the Border Patrol and ICE handle the legal crossing points. The troops can handle security in the open border areas.
Bringing the troops home would do several positive things:
-all that money not being sent overseas can stay here and help revitalize the economy of many border communities.
-Getting troops out of places they don’t belong should reduce tensions between us and other countries.
-Combat casualties will be reduce to virtually zero.
We may again be able to say that our military is primarily a DEFENSE force, instead of the aggressor overseas.

KaD
KaD
  sionnach liath
January 4, 2018 12:24 pm

I agree. Make the border and inland 20 miles a militarized zone. Plant some land mines. Guard towers.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
  KaD
January 4, 2018 9:43 pm

San Diego, no problem.
El Paso, are you crazy?
It could be cheaper to put some guard towers around KaD’s shack.

GilbertS
GilbertS
January 4, 2018 12:14 pm

Ever hear of 3d printing buildings? You could erect the wall much faster on site with a mobile construction unit (remember Command and Conquer? Well, MCUs are plausible tech now.)

This is a TED talk about 3d printing buildings. The speaker claims an average 2500 sq foot family house can be printed in 20 hours. The speaker even describes how you can set up a printer to install plumbing and electrical conduit simultaneously with construction.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
  GilbertS
January 6, 2018 1:07 am

But the wall is also supposed to be a jobs program (sarc).

Anonymous
Anonymous
January 4, 2018 12:21 pm

Agreed Iska.
Costs need to be controlled, true. Remember Art of the Deal? I like to think a blank check for it won’t be issued, if T has any input. But I kept thinking Fred comes across as a micro management bean counter projecting an unachievable economic black hole, crunching #s with a calculator. No offense to significant accountants around here. Maybe Fred’s pissed at some cement contractor who fucked up his new driveway and overcharged him. Good thing he wasn’t the feasibility inspector when they were thinking about building the Hoover dam. It would not have happened, but there’s probably some who think it shouldn’t have. Sigh…back to work. There’s income tax bills coming due in April, & property taxes in June. Have to get back on the damn hamster wheel. Livin’ the dream. Edit: nightmare.

Anonymous
Anonymous
January 4, 2018 12:26 pm

Land mines are cheaper and more effective.

GilbertS
GilbertS
  Anonymous
January 4, 2018 1:41 pm

Bully! I was thinking about the same thing. I wish the repubes had been smart enough to take Bathhouse Barry at his facetious offer of a moat with aligators. I would have doubled down and said, “Mr. President! Finally, we know how you feel about border security! And we agree! We will take the moat and aligators, but also please put in landmines, flamethrowers, and sharks with freakin’ laserbeams!” I would love a Berlin Wall with landmines and pit traps and military patrols (great training, huh?) and aerostats with IR and Thermal coverage 20 miles into the opposite side. And let’s learn a few things from our South Korean friends, who know a thing or two about detecting sub-surface digging. And declare any “activiiiist” or “humanitaaaaarian” who goes out to put food and water jugs or maps and whatnot in the desert aiding and abetting criminal activity and lock them up, too.
https://youtu.be/XaaWd1G8M9A?t=30
The Coneheads had the solution 20 years ago

GilbertS
GilbertS
  GilbertS
January 4, 2018 1:43 pm

Coneheads also had the proper response to the terd world.

Gilnut
Gilnut
January 4, 2018 12:46 pm

The wall Trump was most worried about is already built. As soon as he was elected and started slapping Nieto around with his Tweets, illegal immigration dropped off a cliff. (Have a good friend who’s worked Boarder Patrol for years, he confirms) Sure, he’s still pushing for the physical wall to try and keep the future libtard POTUS’ from opening the spicket too wide, but that wasn’t the real game.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  Gilnut
January 4, 2018 1:37 pm

Yeah, that lasted about two months. Border apprehensions are back up to 45,000+ per month and 2017 removals were – somehow- lower than in 2016. We need to build the fucking wall. $25B is two days’ federal spending. “Oh the cost, the cost… lets use landmines… hardy har har”. I don’t have a problem with E Verify or the National Guard on the border – or landmines, but do those things in addition to the wall, not in lieu of. $25B – we could find that in the fucking couch cushions.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
  Iska Waran
January 6, 2018 1:12 am

So what’s wrong with temporary concrete plants at the site? They do this at SRP, the local tritium plant, when called for. For the desert areas, throw some gravel off the back of a truck (jobs program) and move the trucks on through.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
  Gilnut
January 4, 2018 9:46 pm

spicket is actually spelled spigot, look it up in the man’s dictionary- Home Depot.com

Dysmas The Thief
Dysmas The Thief
January 4, 2018 1:24 pm

Fred: If you like your Mexican, you can keep your Mexican.

Clayton
Clayton
January 4, 2018 1:42 pm

All we have to do is CANCEL just O N E ” Defense ” budget Item ( How about the DISASTER called the Raptor ) and we can can get a REAL GOOD
start on the Wall. For every job lost, in the Raptor program, you could pay for 50 new jobs building the W A L L. One WARTHOG, at the giveaway price of about One 1/100th the price of a Raptor, is what the guys
on the ground want anyway. Just ask the guys that have been there.

wdg
wdg
January 4, 2018 1:48 pm

An electric fence with 240 volts and big signs in Spanish should do the job. It doesn’t even have to be that high. Of course, this assumes they can read which may not always be true. Never mind, the word will get around after a few “accidents” while breaking the laws of the US.

Llpoh
Llpoh
January 4, 2018 2:30 pm

I would be looking at pouring the walls in situ. Make a gazillin moulds, bring in rebar, rock, and cement, mix, pour, demould, stand up in place.

RiNS
RiNS
  Llpoh
January 4, 2018 3:29 pm

Tilt-up panels are easy to build and place. The company I work for is involved in this type of work all the time. In fact wasn’t too long ago that a local prison was built using this method.

If it is good enough to keep those convicts in then it can keep the rapists and moochers out..

Llpoh
Llpoh
  RiNS
January 4, 2018 3:32 pm

Rob – right you are. Which is why in situ might be a good option.

GilbertS
GilbertS
  Llpoh
January 4, 2018 3:50 pm

3d print it right on site. Set up some kind of mobile computerized gantry and you could spit out the walls in one section while you’re digging the foundation next to it. Another gantry could be installing the electrical wiring conduits and installing other fittings and whatnot on the just-finished wall section. It would be amazing to see and showcase a new technology.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
  GilbertS
January 4, 2018 9:53 pm

Gilly you sound like the deluded economists trapped on a remote island. “First, assume we have a boat…”

GilbertS
GilbertS
  EL Coyote
January 4, 2018 10:50 pm

Negative, EC. With all due respect to you, I think you’re being closed-minded.
This concept could work.
The tech exists. They built a test home, Apis Cor, in Moscow a few months ago. https://all3dp.com/apis-cor-3d-prints-small-house/ They printed it for 10K in under 24 hours. They have test built some other structures. Check out the TED talk I linked above. It’s not pie in the sky; it’s finding the will and the funding to do it. https://all3dp.com/1/3d-printed-house-homes-buildings-3d-printing-construction/

[imgcomment image[/img] Here’s a graphic illustration of the process. EC, tell me this is not feasible. Explain how this could not work. Minimal resources, minimal work crew, very little waste of resources compared to traditional construction, higher completion speed, and very durable.

[imgcomment image[/img]
This is a view of a wall being printed!

[imgcomment image[/img] Here is the Russian 3d Apis Cor house. Here’s the video.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  GilbertS
January 5, 2018 1:21 pm

Gilly, I give no respect and expect none (even if I like you, which, I do). The idea of placing do-dats in place is what sounded fantastical so I made a joke about it. As far as smarts, your smarter than me. Thank you for the visual aids, I was able to understand your concept better!

I agree with RiNSe because there is no pouring mud on site. But Fred already discussed the logistics problem there. I think building a highway through Alaska was easier. Heck, even the Panama Canal was a breeze. But you guys are the wizz kids that can figure this out.

RiNS
RiNS
  GilbertS
January 4, 2018 10:49 pm

3d printing is Ducking Fumb. With tilt-up panels all ya gotta do is move the forms. Only limitation is how fast the concrete gets made. Easy peasy.

A Big Beautiful wall is easy to build. Just needs the will and power of the Governnent and with a crew of a couple hundred it would be done in no time…

GilbertS
GilbertS
  RiNS
January 4, 2018 11:01 pm

I’m no expert on 3d. I’m not going to pretend I’m an engineer or architect. I’m just fascinated by the tech. Why is 3d fucking dumb?

RiNS
RiNS
  GilbertS
January 5, 2018 12:03 am

He sez… I’m no expert on 3d. Go on the interweb and google tilt-up panels yourself. Once you do tell me what is easier to stage in butt fuck nowhere….

[imgcomment image[/img]

Would you want to tear down an industrial sized 3d printer in a place like that… leaving aside the logistics of all the inputs that would be required..

The easiest money in reinforced concrete is this type of work..

You set up the forms.
Tie the rebar.
Pour the concrete
It sets
and ya tilt them up

Come on Gilbert. Use your the brain Odin gave you! 3d printing certainly has applications in building stuff but where it shines is making complex shapes. With a wall it is flat panels. It is the stuff of dreams for the company where I work. As small as we are as a company, we can build 10 or so a day.

Give me a portable concrete plant, several hundred men and this wall would be done in no time at all.

Yours of course in Odin,

RiNS

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
  RiNS
January 6, 2018 1:17 am

Don’t forget the razor wire on top, like in Israel.

starfcker
starfcker
  Llpoh
January 4, 2018 7:22 pm

Yeah, Tilt-con Construction. Half the buildings they build here is done that way. Pour a wall and stand it up. Fred is a retard. If you’re going to write an article about construction, it pays to know something about construction. Oh, by the way Fred, do you know Trump was a builder of tall buildings? A f****** wall should be a real challenge

Desertrat
Desertrat
January 4, 2018 3:13 pm

Remove the economic incentives for illegals to be here and they won’t be here.

“Hire an illegal? Lose your license to do business.” And, no public assistance for illegals.

WRT tunneling under the wall: I had a wetback working for me, back in 1983, who was digging a five-foot diameter water well by hand. Bucket, rope and windlass. He told me he’d dug wells in Mexico in clay formations to as deep as 400 feet.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  Desertrat
January 4, 2018 3:20 pm

And then a democrat becomes president and that policy gets reversed on day one. Hell, George W Bush would have reversed that policy. President Paul Ryan (God forbid) would say “it’s not who we are”. Can’t you guys discern the benefit of a permanent physical structure over a temporary policy – no matter good that policy might sound?

GilbertS
GilbertS
  Desertrat
January 4, 2018 3:46 pm

Declare any illegal alien, as a habitual offender who breaks the law every day they’re here, to be operating a continuing criminal enterprise. Then, sic RICO-style asset forfeiture on them. The cops and federales would be all over that shit. It would be a land race to grab and loot as many illegals as possible. Offer citizens 500-1000 a head for every illegal identified, arrested, tried, and deported.

It would be ridiculously easy to do, too. I had a coworker who used to catch illegals wanted by the govt with a PI firm and it was ridiculously easy. They just got a list every month of the wanted illegals, called their last known address, and told whomever answered they were XYZ company and the dude had won a TV in a contest and they jsut wanted to get him to come pick it up at their “shop” (a rented storefront) at a scheduled time. The person on the phone always said they had no idea where the guy was, but inevitably he always showed up at the scheduled time to get his TV. They would arrest him, reset the rented storefront for the next one, and wait for the next scheduled sucker to show up. They made good money on that one!

So declare their businesses, cars, property, bank accounts, etc forfeit and sic the cops on them. They know where they all are, really, but they also knew the Soetero regime-era ICE wasn’t going to pick them up. I knew a cop who told me they gave up when ICE wouldn’t come for entire truckloads full of 50+ illegals caught on the Baltimore-DC expressway. Also, all illegal anchor babies can stay here with legal guardians or they go with their parents, where they should be, until age 18. Just don’t let them chain migrate their whole damn village in with them.

Also, make all benefits and freebies citizen-only. No more free anything for non-citizens. No in-state tuition, no free food, free education, free housing, free barry fonez, heating, etc. No more public school, which is just daycare for them. The parents in my area all hate the public schools here because they’re full of illegals, primarily from South America, who don’t speak the language, don’t know how to behave, and don’t even eat breakfast at home. They show up to school and eat breakfast in class. The teachers spend so much time trying to deal with these kids, the actual citizen children have no chance to learn. They’re also violent and freely bully the other kids, who are blamed if they respond.

And let’s not forget the disgusting liberal trick of them putting 20+ year old “children” in class with actual kids, who they apparently assault and rape with little fear of any retribution/competition. It makes me feel really jealous I graduated normally, like everyone else. If I had been a 20 year old Freshman, I probably would have been the BMOC, too. My Cajun neighbors used to really complain about their 9 yo daughter getting in trouble for responding to the boys bullying her. The homeschooling community here is huge. It seems like most of the families around here are into it, while the immigrants, legal and not, are in the public schools. The city council president hilariously claims we have a great education system, while all the local citizen parents believe otherwise. So does the state public school ratings site, which lists the public school up the street as one of the worst in the state! The others nearby are hardly better.

With no freebies and no way to own property, watch them self-deport.
Call me heartless and a meannie if you want, but as a spouse of a legal immigrant, I’ve been through the long, painful uncertain process and the expenses and paperwork and the stupid interviews and if it’s good enough for me, it’s good enough for everyone else.
And let’s cut off immigration in general and only accept educated, civilized, useful individuals with a focus on Western European Civ, since those are the people most likely to come here and actually embrace our system. Why do we pretend terd world savages will somehow be better just being here with us?
Oh, and I don’t know if you know this, but when I sponsored my spouse for a visa, I had to swear I would support them as their sponsor and they would not go on any form of public assistance, otherwise they would be deported. So why do we let illegals and even legals on welfare? I heard a stat on the radio that said 75% of all legal aliens and 95% of all illegal aliens go on the dole. WTF’nF is that shit? I can’t help assuming it’s a monumental fuck you to those of us who actually follow the rules instead of just trying to get over on the system.

So that’s why I fucking hate illegal fucking aliens.

If you’re a legal, law-abiding upright uptight citizen, carry on.

Llpoh
Llpoh
January 4, 2018 3:18 pm

But I think machine gun nests every 200 yards and a barb wire fence would be easier and cheaper.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  Llpoh
January 4, 2018 3:21 pm

Stop. Not either or. Both and.

Llpoh
Llpoh
  Iska Waran
January 4, 2018 3:29 pm

Of course I meant both.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
  Llpoh
January 4, 2018 9:56 pm

LLPOH, don’t let Iska push you around, man up and tell him you want both, dammit!

BL
BL
  EL Coyote
January 4, 2018 11:28 pm

There are numerous tunnels under the border, how does a wall stop the influx?

starfcker
starfcker
  BL
January 5, 2018 12:40 am

Just drop a couple sticks of dynamite down the tunnels. They would stop pretty quick

AC
AC
January 4, 2018 7:08 pm

We should cut the fiber optic lines leading into Mexico, too. This would make Fred’s work significantly more palatable.

Rdawg
Rdawg
January 4, 2018 10:25 pm

“The volume of concrete in the entire wall would thus be 2,000 miles x 5280 ft / mile x 36 ft x .5 ft, or 190,080,000 cubic feet.”

Hoover Dam has a concrete volume of about 119,000,000 cubic feet. The concrete work took less than two years; and that was back in the 30s.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
  Rdawg
January 4, 2018 10:37 pm

One location, one giant pour of mud vs pouring mud into molds all along 2,000 + miles.

Rdawg
Rdawg
  EL Coyote
January 4, 2018 10:47 pm

Yeah, I get it. I was drawing a comparison that highlights the fact that we have taken on very large projects before successfully; and over 80 years ago at that.

It certainly gives some perspective on the idea that it would take 30 to 167 years to build.

Vodka
Vodka
  EL Coyote
January 4, 2018 11:07 pm

And how many tens of thousands of miles of concrete Interstate Highways are there? The logistics of building The Wall are not a big deal.

I’m against building The Wall only because it won’t stop the influx of desperate third-worlders if we still refuse to enforce immigration laws after they make it here. If they know this, then they will simply find another way in (think: coastlines).

Rdawg
Rdawg
  Vodka
January 4, 2018 11:20 pm

Good points. I’m not that keen on the wall, either. I would rather make it very, very undesirable to be caught employing illegals, and make it impossible to collect any public assistance.

Do those, and the problem solves itself.

The logistical arguments about constructing such a thing are poorly thought out, which you aptly exposed.

starfcker
starfcker
  Rdawg
January 5, 2018 12:38 am

Rdawg, it’s the smuggling issue as well. It’s control of the border, for the good of the country

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  Vodka
January 4, 2018 11:23 pm

That’s like saying “don’t lock the door because they can still kick in the window”.

Vodka
Vodka
  Iska Waran
January 5, 2018 12:03 am

Maybe that’s true, but the overlooked and obvious weakness of the “window” still remains. Should we put our hope in them not noticing the “window”? That they might be so awe-struck at the sight of a $10,000 lock on the front door that they wouldn’t give thought to a “window”, but just immediately give up?? Don’t think so. You need to give your Wall idea a better ‘think’.

nkit
nkit
January 4, 2018 10:47 pm

Today’s legal American-born children have dreams too.. Everyone has dreams. Fuck DACA.. why are they special? There is no free lunch..especially for those illegal cockroaches that disrespect this country…

MMinLamesa
MMinLamesa
January 5, 2018 4:26 am

Cost for the wall is irrelevant. $7B or $30B, so what. It’s estimated illegals cost us well north of $100B/year so by summer, we’re ahead of the game. The point a wall makes is serious, build the damn thing.

overthecliff
overthecliff
January 5, 2018 8:58 am

They will not use it but logic tells me that a lead reinforced wall would be stronger than any other kind. Vigorous enforcement and severe penalties would do the job. That won’t happen either. There are to many traitors in USA. Employers who use illegal labor have bought control of congress and the executive branch. We have the best government money can buy.

Montefrío
Montefrío
January 5, 2018 1:48 pm

Mr T, his progeny and their mates are most likely a wholly-owned subsidiary of Finance, Inc., and plays the role of Knucklehead Smiff very much to the liking of the puppet-masters who pull the strings that govern nearly everyone, y’all included. The so-called “wall” is a smokescreen, a masturbatory mirage for the gormless who fail to understand that the only “wall” that works derives from the will of the citizens with respect to showing that they’re serious about forbidding any further invasion of their country by those who have no business being there or coming there; no steenkin’ concrete wall is necessary.

GaryD
GaryD
January 5, 2018 10:34 pm

The United States Southern Border Wall will be one the most beautiful things this country has ever done in it’s entire short history. It should be named the Liberty Wall, and each section should have it’s own commemorative name or title. There could be the “SAM HOUSTON”, the “MIGUEL HIDALGO”, the “CABRILLO”. Incidentally, all 6 of the proto-types could be used, and would be needed in different areas for each of their different attributes. We could have a functioning wall within 3 to 5 years. 800 miles can be finished in 3 to 4 years in the easy to build “high speed” areas, and the other 300 miles in the more difficult time consuming areas in the next 2 years. We will not just start at one end and build to the other, but build different sections of it all at once.