FOURTH TURNING ECONOMICS

“In retrospect, the spark might seem as ominous as a financial crash, as ordinary as a national election, or as trivial as a Tea Party. The catalyst will unfold according to a basic Crisis dynamic that underlies all of these scenarios: An initial spark will trigger a chain reaction of unyielding responses and further emergencies. The core elements of these scenarios (debt, civic decay, global disorder) will matter more than the details, which the catalyst will juxtapose and connect in some unknowable way. If foreign societies are also entering a Fourth Turning, this could accelerate the chain reaction. At home and abroad, these events will reflect the tearing of the civic fabric at points of extreme vulnerability – problem areas where America will have neglected, denied, or delayed needed action.” – The Fourth Turning – Strauss & Howe

Image result for total global debt 2019

The quote above captures the current Fourth Turning perfectly, even though it was written more than a decade before the 2008 financial tsunami struck. With global debt now exceeding $250 trillion, up 60% since the Crisis began, and $13 trillion of sovereign debt with negative yields, it is clear to all rational thinking individuals the next financial crisis will make 2008 look like a walk in the park. We are approaching the eleventh anniversary of this crisis period, with possibly a decade to go before a resolution.

As I was thinking about what confluence of economic factors might ignite the next bloody phase of this Fourth Turning, I realized economic factors have been the underlying cause of all four Crisis periods in American history.

Debt levels in eurozone, G7, US and Germany

The specific details of each crisis change, but economic catalysts have initiated all previous Fourth Turnings and led ultimately to bloody conflict. There is nothing in the current dynamic of this Fourth Turning which argues against a similar outcome. The immense debt, stock and real estate bubbles, created by feckless central bankers, corrupt politicians, and spineless government apparatchiks, have set the stage for the greatest financial calamity in world history.

Rather than taking the bitter medicine of purging the system of bad debt and allowing zombie banks and corporations to die, the ruling class has chosen to ramp up the debt orgy and reward themselves and their cronies with ill-gotten riches, while impoverishing the masses. Their arrogance and hubris have grown to vast proportions and will eventually result in a bloody backlash from those they have screwed over.

The election of Donald Trump over the hand-picked candidate of the oligarchy, was a reaction to the raping and pillaging of Main Street by the greedy soulless psychopaths in suits on Wall Street and in the halls of the Eccles building in Washington D.C. The average hard-working American has seen eight years of “government of the bankers, by the bankers, for the bankers”.

Wall Street was bailed out and rewarded with the ability to borrow at 0% from their captured Federal Reserve. Zombie corporations were kept alive with low interest debt, with no adjustment for risk. The cowardly politicians drove the national debt from $11.5 trillion to over $20 trillion, while accomplishing minimal GDP growth (negative growth using a real inflation rate), and enriching mega-corporations and the top .1%. Meanwhile, risk averse senior citizens, depending upon some interest income to survive, were thrown under the bus by Bernanke, Yellen and Powell.

It was the deplorables in flyover country, the blue-collar workers in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio, and senior citizens in Florida who voted their wallets, which had been picked by establishment politicians for the previous eight years. Good paying manufacturing jobs with health benefits have been replaced with low paying retail and service jobs with minimal benefits.

Retail store closings continue to accelerate, while credit card debt hits all-time highs, surpassing the 2008 levels. A critical thinking individual might conclude millions of Americans are running up their credit card balances by paying their utility bills, property tax bills, medical bills, and other necessities on credit. Thousands of retail stores wouldn’t be closing if people were still buying shit they didn’t need on credit.

After campaigning as if he would be a fiscally responsible president, Trump has been a disappointment regarding the budget. His “best economy ever” is nothing but a government spending driven, low interest rate, stock market boosting bubble. After promising to eliminate the debt during the campaign and railing against the low interest rate driven stock market bubble, Trump and the Republicans have added $2 trillion to the national debt, thus far.

The original projection for FY19 was around an $800 billion deficit, but the economy is “booming” so much, it will now reach at least $1.1 trillion. The rate of growth in the debt is outpacing the rate of growth of GDP, therefore we are regressing fiscally. Pointing this out is considered traitorous among Trump can do no wrong acolytes.

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Deficit-Tracker-Update-6.10.2019.png

The two parties proved they have absolutely no interest in reducing or even slowing spending. They agreed to a two-year deal that will add at least $200 billion more to the annual deficits and increased the debt ceiling so they can keep borrowing. And this is even before the mandatory spending for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid kick into high gear in the coming years.

The fact doubling the national debt in the last ten years has not caused a catastrophe – yet – has created an arrogant hubristic ruling oligarchy who are sure they can run the debt to infinity with no adverse consequences. They have bought off the politicians, control the media, and use their Deep State surveillance assets to insure their continued control of the system and obscene riches. Meanwhile, the average American continues to be screwed and ripped off by both parties.

Political Cartoons by Michael Ramirez

“Wherever we’re headed, America is evolving in ways most of us don’t like or understand.  Individually focused yet collectively adrift, we wonder if we’re heading toward a waterfall. Are we?”Strauss & Howe

The president and congress no longer even pretend to be fiscally responsible. They didn’t even pretend to try and pay for the increased spending. Trump’s tax cuts were sold as a way to have mega-corporations repatriate hundreds of billions from overseas and reinvigorate the economy with a surge in job creation.

With half the working public already paying little or no taxes, the tax cuts heavily favored the .1% and put $200 billion more into the coffers of the biggest corporations with the most powerful lobbyists. So, the politicians keep spending more on the military industrial complex and corporate tax revenues have plunged by two thirds, which will leave us with a $1.3 trillion deficit next year, even if we don’t fall into recession.

Image

The three previous American Fourth Turnings were all initiated by economic issues. The American Revolution began due to a decade of increasing tax repression by Britain over the American colonies. The Navigation Acts forced all trade on British ships, making it easy for British authorities to tax and regulate trade by cutting down on smuggling. The Stamp Act of 1765 was designed to increase revenue for the British, to pay their debts from the Seven Years War. The Sugar Act was designed to closely regulate the trade of products such as rum, molasses, and sugar. The Colonists became upset at such taxation without sufficient representation in Parliament.

Rebellious patriots began to boycott British goods.  The Townsend Acts led the Sons of Liberty to dump British tea into the Boston Harbor, known forevermore as the Boston Tea Party. In retaliation, the British passed a series of acts later known as the Intolerable Acts, all designed to punish and reshape the colonial governance system to make it easier for the British to control the colonies. Ultimately, the economic warfare devolved into a shooting war that led to the existing social and political order being swept away.

The Civil War is commonly seen as a conflict only over slavery, but there was a huge economic component to the war. The industrial revolution in the North, during the first few decades of the 19th century, brought about a machine age urban economy that relied on wage laborers, not slaves. At the same time, the warmer Southern states continued to rely on slaves for their rural farming economy and cotton production. In 1805 there were just over one million slaves worth about $300 million; fifty-five years later there were four million slaves worth close to $3 billion.

In the 11 states that eventually formed the Confederacy, four out of ten people were slaves in 1860, and these people accounted for more than half the agricultural labor in those states. In the cotton regions the importance of slave labor was even greater. The value of capital invested in slaves roughly equaled the total value of all farmland and farm buildings in the South. More than two-thirds of all urban counties were in the Northeast and West; those two regions accounted for nearly 80 percent of the urban population of the country. By contrast, less than 7 percent of people in the 11 Southern states lived in urban counties.

Southerners viewed any attempt by the federal government to limit the rights of slave owners over their property as a potentially calamitous threat to their entire economic system. The South’s economic investment in slavery explains the willingness of Southerners to risk war when faced with what they viewed as a serious threat to their “peculiar institution” after the electoral victories of the Republican Party and President Abraham Lincoln the fall of 1860.

The industrial power of the North virtually insured victory, the longer the conflict extended. This may explain Lee’s aggressiveness in trying to strike a knockout blow during the early years of the war. The clear delineation of states based on their beliefs in 1860 sure resonates today when you view how the country voted in 2016. Will the drastic discrepancy in beliefs about how to govern this country lead to a similar outcome?

Image result for 2016 vote by county

The last Fourth Turning, from 1929 until 1946, was most certainly propelled by economic disaster. The Great Stock Market Crash of 1929 and subsequent Great Depression followed five years of reckless credit expansion by the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve credit expansion in 1924 was in reaction to a business downturn and to assist the Bank of England in its wish to maintain prewar exchange rates. The strong US dollar and the weak British pound were to be readjusted to prewar conditions through a policy of inflation in the United States and deflation in Great Britain.

The credit expansion led to the Roaring Twenties. The volume of farm and urban mortgages expanded from $17 billion in 1921 to $27 billion in 1929. Large increases occurred in industrial, financial, and state and local government indebtedness simultaneously. This Federal Reserve spurred expansion of money and credit led to skyrocketing real-estate and stock prices. Sound familiar? The Federal Reserve is good at one thing – creating bubbles and subsequent busts. Notice how politicians always tell you everything is great. Best economy ever!!!

“No Congress of the United States ever assembled, on surveying the state of the Union, has met with a more pleasing prospect than that which appears at the present time. In the domestic field there is tranquility and contentment…and the highest record of years of prosperity. In the foreign field there is peace, the goodwill which comes from mutual understanding.” – Calvin Coolidge December 4, 1928

The politicians in Washington exacerbated the recession and created the Great Depression by trying to reverse the economic cycle. The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act raised American tariffs to unparalleled levels, virtually closing our borders to foreign goods. American exports fell from $5.5 billion in 1929 to $1.7 billion in 1932. Our main exports were agricultural. The main creditors of American farmers were rural banks. When agriculture collapsed, the rural banks closed their doors collapsed.

Some 2,000 banks, with deposit liabilities of over $1.5 billion, closed their doors between August 1931, and February 1932. The whole nation, in fact, the whole world, fell into the cataclysm of despair and depression in 1931. American unemployment jumped to more than 8 million and continued to rise. Economic conditions collapsed and unemployment in 1932 surged to over 12 million. Again, politicians spewed happy talk as the situation worsened.

“While the crash only took place six months ago, I am convinced we have now passed through the worst — and with continued unity of effort we shall rapidly recover. There has been no significant bank or industrial failure. That danger, too, is safely behind us.”– Herbert Hoover, President of the United States, May 1, 1930

Three years later a new president closed all the banks and confiscated gold from American citizens.

Image result for franklin d roosevelt confiscation of gold

“All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed… and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S.” – President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933

The causes for World War II are many, but the underlying source for the deaths of 65 million people was economic. The Treaty of Versailles, blaming the Germans solely for the First World War and demanding crippling reparations, was the nexus of World War II.  Germany was forced to surrender colonial territories and militarily disarm, creating German resentfulness of the treaty. In 1923 the Weimer Republic delayed reparation payments, leading France and Belgium to occupy the Ruhr Valley, effectively appropriating the coal and metal production that took place there.

As much of German manufacturing was dependent on coal and metal, the loss of these industries created a negative economic shock leading to a severe contraction. This contraction, as well as the government’s continued printing of money to pay internal war debts, generated spiraling hyperinflation. This economic suffering and humiliation ultimately led to the population turning to Adolf Hitler as their savior.

The global trade contraction exacerbated the mistrust and anger building throughout the world. Tariffs and counter-tariffs made the Great Depression greater than it had to be. The protectionist policies of countries around the globe denied key raw materials to countries dependent upon imports. While the British, French, Soviets and Americans had large colonial empires to turn to for access to much needed raw materials, countries such as Germany, Italy and Japan did not.

“Have-not” nations found it increasingly necessary to use military force to annex territories with the much-needed resources. Such military force required extensive rearmament and, the case of Germany, meant a direct violation of the Versailles Treaty. This ultimately resulted in war breaking out in Europe. The American oil embargo on Japan ultimately resulted in the attack on Pearl Harbor and the start of the Pacific war.

Image result for attack on pearl harbor

In Part Two of this article I’ll ponder how the coming years will play out, based upon the dynamics of Fourth Turnings.

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Ghost

It is almost obvious we are in the middle of a geopolitical realignment of the 4th Turning kind.

This might be a good Primer on 4th Turning for some, a review for others.

22winmag - Q is a psyop and Drumpf is lead actor
22winmag - Q is a psyop and Drumpf is lead actor

Funny how economic shock and household economics play into this spooky-as-hell paper:

http://www.coalitionoftheobvious.com/SILENT_20WEAPONS_20for_20QUIET_20WARS.pdf

Ghost

I dunno… some looks legit and spooky. Some looks a bit made-up. Could it be a combination?

Anonymous
Anonymous

Brilliant synopsis of some causes of the past three Fourth Turnings. Can hardly wait for Part Two!
Oh, and by the way, looks like they’re trying to come and get your guns, again.

llpoh
llpoh

Admin – many thanks! you have those juices flowing I see!

Some random responses from some points made in the article:

“Meanwhile, risk averse senior citizens, depending upon some interest income to survive, were thrown under the bus by Bernanke, Yellen and Powell.”
This is a goddamn travesty, and the people that have lowered the rates to these ridiculous levels need to be horsewhipped. These low interest rates are a damn scourge.

“Good paying manufacturing jobs with health benefits have been replaced with low paying retail and service jobs with minimal benefits.”
As I have sad many times, this was inevitable. The trend line goes back to the fifties. The US was both dominant and in manufacturing, and hence were able to pay high wages in this field, as output was so vastly superior to world-wide competition. However, it was unsustainable. Many manufactures (GM as exhibit A), believing that their exalted position would last forever, became bloated and paid wages that were far beyond reason, simultaneously allowing quality to fall. This allowed Japan, in particular, and also Germany, to get their feet in the door. The US lost its relative productivity advantage, and the natural decline owing to automation accelerated, and hence it became impossible to pay the premium manufacturing workers had been receiving, at the same time as manufacturing employment continued its rapid decline.

“Retail store closings continue to accelerate, while credit card debt hits all-time highs, surpassing the 2008 levels.”
The effect of online shopping has been very significant. Retail is very volume sensitive. Even a few percentage point drop in sales can send a retail shop broke.

“With half the working public already paying little or no taxes, the tax cuts heavily favored the .1% and put $200 billion more into the coffers of the biggest corporations with the most powerful lobbyists.”
1) half the working public paying no tax is a severe issue – as is the fact that almost forty percent of the working age population does not work. This is a reflection of the welfare state at work, and I believe it is a major, if not the major reason, that the country, indeed the world, is heading south. The idea that the top 10% paying 90% of the tax in now way seems reasonable to me. Come to think of it, all tax seems unreasonable to me. 2) I do not believe that corporations should pay income tax – rather that tax should be paid at marginal rates as the money, via dividends and capital realization, flows to shareholders. Taxing the job creators makes no sense to me, and the untold billions spent on accountants and lawyers could be eliminated, as would the incentive to offshore business to low tax nations.

“All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed… and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S.”

The 4th Amendment to the Constitution addresses this. “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated”. This fucking shit, along the current practice of asset forfeiture, is clearly a violation of the 4th.

Thanks again, Admin. great stuff.

Lars Emilsson
Lars Emilsson

“All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed… and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S.”

For the sake of historic accuracy…this verbiage does not appear anywhere in FDR’s Executive Order 6102. No safe deposit boxes were sealed or monitored by IRS agents under this order.

The one case in which gold was physically seized from a safe deposit box, owned by a wealthy foreign national, had to do with tax evasion IIRC. Also massive bank failures, especially those in rural areas, resulted in many safe deposit boxes coming under various court jursidictions IIRC.

Nonetheless, your overall point remains. FDR was a lackey for the international banking cabal and his dictate at the behest of the Fed was an outright massive theft of private property, plain and simple…as are all taxes on homestead and income, for that matter IMHO. If an entity with a monopoly on violence can seize all or a part of our labor and property at a rate and time determined by it and only it, and can seize them entirely should we refuse consent, then we are neither owners nor free men.

My mom, who was born in 1920, often recalled that, even though she did not understand its significance at the time, many folks in her small riverside town in Pennsylvania quietly refused to comply with the edict and put their gold and silver coins in hiding.

Ghost

” theft of private property, plain and simple…as are all taxes on homestead and income”

I’m curious about something. My son has obviously been talking to people like you recently. He informed me that income taxes are an inefficient way to collect money for the public good. Then, the brat refused to elaborate.

You appear to be both tech savvy and have business acumen. What WOULD be the most efficient way to collect for the “common good.”

MOST of us agree there really is a “common” good, like roads and, well, like roads.

Schools are the job of the community as chosen by the family, in my opinion.

RS
RS

Roads are primarily funded by gasoline taxes.

Schools are primarily funded by real estate taxes.

Jim
Jim

One of the dilemmas one faces in the impending implosion is what to do worth one’s savings and more specifically cash. Will it become worthless or more valuable? And should one put it into land/farm now or just stash as much cash in a suitcase and hide away? I just don’t buy the goldbug scenario as working out, I mean if the SHTF either the Feds or robbers will come for your gold. And as to the notion of just burying it, that doesn’t appeal to me or seem like a viable solution. There is no doubt we are in the early stage of the Fourth Turning but I have seen little or no viable solutions being posed as to what the average believer can do to protect himself. It may be that there are no viable solutions. And if that is the case so be it. Out.

mark
mark

“There is no doubt we are in the early stage of the Fourth Turning but I have seen little or no viable solutions being posed as to what the average believer can do to protect himself.”

Check it out Jim,

Stash some cash in your possession it will be valuable for a while…I would say no less than a normal three to four months’ worth to be safe. At some point it will be inflated away, but many/most won’t have it during the transition as the banks & ATMs will be shut down, credit cards long useless.

Stash some silver, especially FDR Dimes (14 make up an ounce) and other pre-64 junk Silver, then American Eagle 1 ounce coins. Right now Silver is dirt cheap.

If you have wealth, stash some gold, you can buy it with no paper trail. Keep your mouth shut and be creative hiding it.

Have you seen this thread? More advice in the comments:

Congress to Make 401(k)’s Riskier For Your Retirement Savings

TS

“If you have wealth, stash some gold, you can buy it with no paper trail. Keep your mouth shut and be creative hiding it.”
Aye, Laddy; in all things in this era, not just precious metals, keep the mouth shut!

mark
mark

To Paraphrase the Rough Rider,

‘Speak in Silence and carry a M1A (and a .45 for close work)’

Payola the Gun
Payola the Gun

Interesting stuff gets tucked away here at times.

Ghost

Saw this most excellent advice last night but could not reply.

Wanted to just add that when we were introducing new folks to the idea of prepping, I always encouraged the women to really think about how they would shelter in place for three days. Just three days.

Because the end of the world as we know it seems intimidating to someone who had hoped to pay off their mortgage and settle down for some real vacationing fun. Three days is manageable and doesn’t overwhelm. It is baby stepping into prepping.

I encouraged them to set their goal as preparing their family and home for three days without power or outside contact, as if a big wall of ice had sealed them off for just three days. (Please don’t start the questions about the wall of ice. It is a metaphor, Quetzacoatl.)

I came up with the idea when we first started listening to Chris Martenson after attending his crash course hosted by the group of “like-minded” families who held FF (family of families) meetings monthly for years. And, by the way, they still do, albeit in more rural settings, some underground. I’d planned to attend one but, as always, plans go awry.

So, I actually have a lesson plan from those sessions and will see if it is “updateable” since it was created more than ten years ago. I won’t post it original, nor will I put it here but I will share it in commentary for others to peruse, when I find it.

And, by the way… For a LONG time, for training and sentimental reasons, I kept my family’s “3-day stash” for TEOTWAWKI bugging out in my son’s closet.

He says he was embarassed about it, but I think he is revising his own memory. I DID notice a giant package of toilet paper in his apartment last trip and have to think something sank in. Giant packages of TP probably haunt his nightmares.

I still insist on TP being in the supply. And I STILL use it to cushion breakables in packages to send a little extra something for those I care about.

Here’s why.

(Since the new 4th T post is up and I’ve not time to really ready and enjoy before daylight, I think I shall ramble a bit here to you. Well, to a pal or two who may or may not want to read it and to one asshole who can’t master self control.)

Everytime I have faced a crisis, and there’s been at least one or two in most of our lives, so I am not special, but when it comes, crisis just happened without a real warning.
Edited after parenthetical…
(And now, I will just close this out. My son lent me his old laptop until he “fixes” my old one. This is a nice little notebook, but it overheats after a half hour or so. Several times, I have lost several pages of copy because of my forgetfulness. I have been forced to relearn how to SAVE. So, if this is the end for no reason… it is because his little notebook got hot and stopped.) I managed to edit and finish this comment, so…

The Lesson plan was along this line of thought…

Three Day Crisis Preparing… (Baby Steps to Preps)

The first thing is water, of course. Have a drink and calm down to assess the crisis.

So, since water is FIRST on the list and you think about how much your family needs for three days and how to store it.

Get your water bricks (I recommend the military style bricks for many, many, many reasons and repurposing) or jugs lined up or stacked. Don’t even worry about cups or pots for cooking. There will be cans.

Next? Well, duh. I’m a woman and after having that glass of cold water, I am gonna need to go to the bathroom to pee. So, of course toilet paper is the next item to concern ourselves with.

Is why it is on the top of the list. It is after water.

Do you understand now, MM?

mark
mark

Got it!

Have two outhouses on the farm…with a giant pack of TP in each one and the hay loft is full of shitpaper. Will be putting in a wool blanket in each outhouse in the fall for those coming Solar Minimum freezing cold shits.

Lots of bags of lime stored too…to sprinkle over the shit.

They are both really deep, had them dug with a back ho when I put in our underground tornado shelter room. CThey are so deep could also use them to toss in a few Millennials (DJ’s buddies) who get stupid and aggressive after TSHTF.

Have plots of lime for them too as there are/will be plenty of zombie Millennials wandering around looking for a safe space after we turn the 4th corner.

Grog
Grog

mark,
You might want to rethink the lime for uses OTS (other than shit). Seems calcium hydroxide prevents decay. As it absorbs water, it creates a high Ph solution. That’s good for dissolving soft tissue, but retards or prevents microbial action.
Just a thought.

mark
mark

Thanks Grog…will look into that.

I was just kidding about the stuffing the shitter with the Golden Horde…don’t want to fill it up! I was thinking about getting a wood chipper, clearing land now for a house and instead of burning the trees going to mulch them for future black gold…could toss in a starving DJ type future zombie from the local Blue Bubble just a well.

If the time comes…I’m a creative guy, I’ll figure it out.

Jim Thomas
Jim Thomas

Seems likely to me that, even if I have a stash of 1-ounce gold coins safely hidden away, the politicians that rule us will make sure that, every time I take one to the bank to convert it to $20,000 or $50,000 or whatever it’s worth at the time in order to pay the mortgage and buy groceries, they will tax the transaction such that I lose all that hoarded wealth on the spot.
Can’t win, even when you win.

mark
mark

Two words Jim: BLACK MARKET

Plus Silver will be for small day to day purchases, 14 pre 64 FDR dimes make up an ounce of silver, gas, food, bread, for the guy down the street who makes fantastic homemade beer in his garage?

Here is a post from the past on Gold and the Government (FDR 1933) I like:
Mustangmanbob
09-21-2012, 03:29 PM
Blah Blah Blah

Tired Story, Reseach your history.

Gold coins were AVAILABLE and CIRCULATING in the 1930’s and you could buy them EASILY from coin stores all the way through the 1970’s when BULLION gold was legalized again.

Simple example: Read the history of the USS Enterprise Aircraft Carrier. Just before it shipped out to Pearl Harbor, it was ported in at San Francisco. There was a sailing & rowing regatta, which both Naval and civilains participated.

1 prize for each race: a $20 gold coin.

Read an old RED BOOK (Coin Values) from the late 1940’s. My issue is 1947. Several points: Gold coin prices are just above spot for common dates, and there is verbage about coins must be Uncirculated because CIRCULATED GOLD coins are common and that the cost of COMMON gold coins is high (Think about what a $20 coin was worth in terms of monthly pay), that collecting of GOLD COINS was a RICH MAN’s hobby. What is NOT in the Red Book: Any reference or statement about confiscation. I guess it was a secret back then to the coin world.

There was a lot of information on silver dollar melts, but not on gold melts, because the quantity was not significant, compared to the silver dollar melts.

My grandfather held onto GOLD coins he received as normal payment for stuff, and this went on until the early 1950’s.

Go to a coin show in the 1960’s, and there were boatloads of gold coins not much more than spot.

It is hard to believe today, but COMMON DATE CIRCULATED gold coins were not wanted because they did not have a collector base, and did not change in value, so most people ignored them.

Accurate history can be very mean to imaginary history.

Was a lot of gold turned in? YES

Yes WAS A LOT OF GOLD NOT TURNED IN? YES?

Did Gold coins freely circulate in the US after 1933? Yes

Could Joe Average Citizen buy as many gold coins for roughly spot from 1933 to 1973 as they had cash for: Yes.

Anonymous
Anonymous

Dollars will be printed to oblivion. Hyperiflation will leave them worthless except as TP or for starting a fire.

The two parties are the same
The two parties are the same

Your scenario may very well happen. But there should be another HUGE growth in productivity coming, which will help keep the “value” of the dollar “somewhat.” In the same way the world’s productivity massively grew since we were taken off the gold standard (and since the FED was created), with the coming of robotic production, productivity should soar again.

Despite massive growth in the world’s productivity, as you say, inflation has been rampant the last 50 years. Prices should have been going down… and a lot. The money printing presses are destroying the world’s gains in productivity. In other words: Our standard of living should be ten times higher.

Harrington Richardson
Harrington Richardson

A Gold Standard is deflationary and rewards savings while encouraging careful consideration before deploying capital. The Ivy League Shitheads hate it because as Ron Paul always says they get “first use” of newly created fiat which lets them act before their new paper depreciates your fiat. There is no Gold Standard “FED Window” for an Ivy League Shithead to be handed newly created Gold at 0-.25% interest while J6P is selling his shit on ebay for depreciating fiat.
The fiat regimen actually creates and reinforces kakistocracies in the economy in BIG industry and BIG finance. During the crash, if the bigs had been taken to bankruptcy court and had their assets auctioned, those players who did not go broke and had superior models of operation would have been able to move up and a stronger economy and system would be the result. The fiat regimen controlled by Ivy League Shitheads holds the inferior, less capable managers and models in place, (members of the club, right sort of chaps etc.) actually kicking those with superior skills and models in the face while they attempt to scale the ladder.
I have no idea why anyone other than economic illiterates would be down voting “two parties” accurate statements above.

Anonymous
Anonymous

you need to save your cash in metal money, quarters, dimes, nickles, so that when they burn your house down, you will still have enough cash to go out and get drunk one last time…

and if you bury it, make sure you map it, and then salt the ground with pounds of nails, old copper and scrap aluminum, so you neighbor with the metal detector will go insane before he finds it.

Constitutional Cong
Constitutional Cong

Anonymous,

Yea, anybody can be ambushed by anyone anytime. Already found that out the hard way 50 years ago.

But, that doesn’t mean you accept defeat or not develop layered defenses, and multiple plans to survive and protect your family, especially if you have likeminded neighbors and attend a small local Church with about 50 armed men and many armed woman.

Use 2 foot long rebar to drive the metal detectors crazy…pound them in with three hits and you can create endless false positive fields all over the place quickly and inexpensively.

Then if needed after TSHTF, alert your Minuteman neighbors, and as the old saying goes…do what you have to do…when you have to do it.

PS: I have 10 Fire extinguishers and will be buying more.

Ghost

Make sure you FIREPROOF it. Fires in Oklahoma turned a friend’s silver rounds into a silver blob.

mark
mark

Anonymous,

I agree but not at the very beginning of the popping of the ‘Everything Bubble’ during the 4th Turning World Series.

No one knows the exact timing of the burst or the ‘exact length of time’ TPTB will wait before they try and shove Special Drawing Rights (SDRs) or whatever else they come up with, their own block chain, backed by? Down our throats. (I think they will wait until the masses are suffering and screaming for relief).

If the banks are closed, Credit cards will only be useful for opening a cheap lock, the ATMs will get cleaned out quickly and will not be refilled. What are Joe Six-pack and Jane Grocery Store (who have almost no Prep, Barter, PMs or serious weapons) going to use initially to buy with that would be accepted at first?

STASHED CASH! (That won’t last long but it will be a bridge).

Fiat currencies internationally are just for the top of the first inning of the first game of the real World Series.

Harrington Richardson
Harrington Richardson

They can take your Gold if they know you have it or can find where you hid it, but only if they know. A half million in Gold only weighs about twenty pounds so it is highly portable and thus highly concealable. The land is completely incapable of being hidden and can be taxed silly or taken for some “grand public purpose” such as sold to a developer who can be taxed more for the parcel than you can pay. A good homestead with an acre or two for gardens with capability of having a well if TSHTF is always a great idea, but buying a hobby farm or raw land in a bad downturn period carries tax risk. When everybody is broke the government still insists you must pay taxes on property or give it up.

mark
mark

Harrington,

They can take your freedom/liberty (and have) gold, silver, land, digital currency, and your guns from your cold, dead hands, but not necessarily in that order.

Eventually for some it’s going to come to that.

I guess each individual has to decide what they are really going to do, not type, when the time comes, and prepare accordingly.

Harrington Richardson
Harrington Richardson

Crunch time will be a bitch. As Warren Buffet says, “when the tide goes out we get to see who is swimming naked.”

Ghost

All typists can claim to be the Great Wizard until the curtain is pulled back and we all fall to our knees and cry Holy is the One.

mark
mark

I have not waited to fall on my knees…come to Him as a child daily.

Montefrio

Said it before, will say it again: productive tangibles. This, of course, after one has a”wholly-owned” land and dwelling; perhaps land seizure for non-payment of taxes will finally and justifiably become illegal, as in such taxes cannot lead to seizure, but only a lien against a sale or succession.

Our family productive tangible is well-drilling equipment, for water and “pre-perfs” for oil. Two years of struggle (my son the engineer runs ops) and it appears the corner has been turned. This is in South America, mind, so I can’t speak to its potential elsewhere, but having always been a nuts and bolts investor, I’d imagine that there will be a greater need for these lines of activity should a major recession or outright collapse occur. My first great investment was in Lindsey Manufacturing, the folks who made (maybe still do) those overhead rotating irrigation sprinkler monsters that worked very well. What a wonderful invention!

Water, food, machinery… they´re not going out of style and neither AI nor robots will take over everything.

Hillary
Hillary

Good comment and advice Monte.

I’m copying this from above only to amuse and make a few think…

In a lengthy comment to mm, (any and all of them), I mention the lesson plan for a three-day in place shelter prep.

I am not including all of it, but this is the way I approached it…

Three Day Crisis Preparing… (Baby Steps to Preps)

The first thing is water, of course. Have a drink and calm down to assess the crisis.

So, since water is FIRST on the list and you think about how much your family needs for three days and how to store it.

Get your water bricks (I recommend the military style bricks for many, many, many reasons and repurposing) or jugs lined up or stacked. Don’t even worry about cups or pots for cooking. There will be cans.

Next? Well, duh. I’m a woman and after having that glass of cold water, I am gonna need to go to the bathroom to pee. So, of course toilet paper is the next item to concern ourselves with.

Is why it is on the top of the list. It is after water.

M G is who she wants to be to avoid the noid.

TampaRed
TampaRed

i’m not an economic guru but if the shtf really bad,you can’t hide land–plus,during the depression,govts & investors bought tax deeds 4 practically nothing–
spread it out,and if you have multiple tracts of property,title them all under different names–

Curtis Miller
Curtis Miller

I always enjoy Admin’s 4th Turning essays. There is so much depth to the concept, and so many ways to interpret it.

I look forward to Part II!

mark
mark

Admin,

If I could I would use Redd Pepper’s deep, rich, husky, booming bass tones from his unforgettable movie trailers that pop with a crystal clear rumbling low growl…to a building crescendo…describing a coming international blockbuster, a coming popping of the Everything Bubble, a coming American Civil War 2, a time like no other since the 1860’s or the Great Depression and WW2.

In the background I would have flashing pictures of masses of Americans waving torches and ARs or M1As in the air while screaming in finally released righteous rage. Exactly what the TPTB deserve.

The voice would describe men and women strapped onto rails being run out of DC, tarred and feathered, a line of them hanging from a gallows, a long line of politicians, lobbyists, government bureaucrats, ALL CONVICTED TRAITORS…all heading to the stairs of the platform, and the razor sharp guillotine standing on the corner of 4th and S.H.T.F.

The huge basket on the other side of the gleaming blade would be labeled: DON’T THREAD ON U.S.

Talk about a cliffhanger…I await part two with righteous anger and anticipation.

You are the man!

The U.S. is a Donkey Show
The U.S. is a Donkey Show

Why do I get the feeling this 4th turning will be the mutha of all 4th turnings? Or at least as far back as whatever led to the dark ages.

As I’ve suggested before, I think many problems get solved with billions, yes with a “B”, purposely killed.

Mygirl...maybe

I used to know this old lady, Mrs. Platz. She was in her nineties and going strong, mind sharp and body still reasonably agile. I asked her what she thought it was that helped her to get to her age and still be able to get around. She smiled at me and said ” I never worry about stuff that I can’t control and I can’t control the future.” Essentially what she was saying was don’t sweat the small stuff. Now ask me how well I’ve managed to let go of stuff I can’t control? Only when forced or so when I’m so tired and burnt out that I no longer give a good rat’s ass what happens and I’m at that point these days.

Anonymous
Anonymous

I thinks it’s foolish not to have basic survival preps. Having access to water, food, protection and perhaps most importantly a community of people who are in the know and are willing to help each other.

Mary Christine

“I’m so tired and burnt out that I no longer give a good rat’s ass what happens and I’m at that point these days.”

Girl, they have you where they want you.

Maybe they have me there, too. I am at a point where I’m not sure what I need to do next. I have too many loose ends to tie up.

Enjoy the relative quiet while you can. It’s not going to last much longer.

Mygirl...maybe

“They’ don’t have me where they want me, life has me and while I fight the good fight there are days it becomes a little too much…comment image?w=629

Mary Christine

Ok, I’ll bite. What is that mess in the skillet?

Ghost

It is whipped egg whites, isn’t it mygirl? For a yolkless (tasteless) omelette.

Or, you burned the bacon and those are suds to scrub it out.

Fire or ice… either will suffice.

Hey, Mary… on a fly by… guess what? KC boy came HERE for a change of pace. Still a brat, but forgiven. Like the rest of us.

Mygirl...maybe

Noooooo. It is all the spilled salt from a container with a too loose lid.

Mary Christine

Girl, I been out for a couple days. I was thinking baking soda because a small flame erupted. But I’ve had that happen to me, with salt and other spices. Then you have to dump it all out and you are left wondering “What the hell am I going to cook now?”

That’s what you call a “known unknown”.

Mary Christine

Hope you are enjoying time with your kid. I spent yesterday swimming with my daughter and grandkids.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote

What constitutes a good rat’s ass?

Mygirl...maybe

Succulence…

mark
mark

EC, Mygirl…maybe,

How about this?

"Rat's Ass" Single Coin

TC
TC

We know Bannon was aware of the Fourth Turning because Admin talked to him about it. Do you think Bannon is the only operative who knows about generational cycles? Of course not. The next few elections (and in hindsight, the one in 2016) are going to provide the people a relief valve – an outsider. At least that’s what we think we’ll be voting for. Of course the string pullers won’t let any actual outsiders on the stage who might actually make a change, but if this token illusion of an alternative keeps the masses from burning down the place for another 4 years, then it’s a win-win for them.

Anonymous
Anonymous

…and now Trump,the Trojan horse, is taking one more step to dis arm us. Never disarm. Overthecliff

pyrrhus
pyrrhus

The article misses the fact that the Civil War was fought over the Morrill Tariff, pushed through by Northern manufacturers, which turned the South into 2d class citizens, not slavery…It also misstates the cause of the Depression, which was sovereign defaults not Smoot Hawley, which didn’t even go into effect until 1932….

llpoh
llpoh

pyrrhus – you do not read well, do you. Your revisionist bullshit will not play well here with, you know, folks that are educated and actually know how to read.

1) the Civil War was not fought over the Morrill Tariff. Secession had begun before it was passed, and the primary issue at play was indeed slavery.

2) The Admin does no say that Smoot Hawley caused the Depression, he only says “The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act raised American tariffs to unparalleled levels, virtually closing our borders to foreign goods. American exports fell from $5.5 billion in 1929 to $1.7 billion in 1932.”

So do us a favor, and jam that crap back up your ass.

Mygirl...maybe

So sorry, pyrrhus is somewhat correct regarding the causes of the Civil War: while slavery was an issue, it was not the sole or only issue, rather, it was the tariffs that were the cause of the south’s push for secession and not just the Morrill Tariff but several other earlier tariffs.

Money and economics were the key and cause of the Civil War, slavery was endemic to Southern agriculture and the South was agrarian, relying on cotton and other crops for their sustenance and income. Slavery as a moral issue wasn’t really germane to the reasons for seeking secession, rather it was the economic aspects of slavery along with the tariffs and other union states practices that concerned the south. They needed the slaves to work the large plantations. The tariffs that benefited the industrial north placed serious and unfair financial burdens on the south and also negatively impacted Great Britain’s ability to buy Southern cotton, killing the southern markets by destroying customer base.

Lincoln was opposed to secession not because of the slavery issue but rather, because he decried the loss of tax revenues for the union.

‘While the issue of slavery was, in fact, a primary concern for the South, the secessionist movement began decades before the Civil War.
In 1828, Congress passed a tariff of sixty-two percent which applied to nearly all imported goods. The purpose of the tariff was to protect Northern industries from low-priced imported goods. But it effectively increased the cost of goods for the South, which sans manufacturing capacity, relied heavily on imported goods.
At the same time, the tariff reduced the amount of British goods sold to the South, effectively making it more difficult for the British to pay for Southern cotton. It’s no wonder the South would refer to the Tariff of 1828 as the “Tariff of Abominations.”

Charles Dickens even wrote about the Morrill Tariff stating: “The last grievance of the South was the Morrill tariff, passed as an election bribe to the State of Pennsylvania, imposing, among other things, a duty of no less than fifty per cent on the importation of pig iron, in which that State is especially interested.” (1)

Of the eleven seceding states, only six cited slavery as the primary cause for leaving the Union. (2)

https://medium.com/@jonathanusa/everything-you-know-about-the-civil-war-is-wrong-9e94f0118269

llpoh
llpoh

Mygirl – so when you post “While the issue of slavery was, in fact, a primary concern for the South” what you are really saying is that I am right. When you say that it was the tariffs in general, and then follow it up with “Of the eleven seceding states, only six cited slavery as the primary cause for leaving the Union”, you are again saying I am right.

The fact is, I am right, and no matter how you parse it, I am right. The PRIMARY issue was slavery. I never said it was the ONLY issue. And your source material simply confirms what I said is correct, and what py said was bullshite.

Mygirl...maybe

You said the primary issue was slavery, you neglect to mention the effects of the tariffs and those were EQUALLY if not MORE important than the issue of slavery in the beginning of the secessionist movement. The tariffs created the inequality that forced the south to have to consider not only the costs of slavery but also the loss of customers while having to pay far more in materials. Your implication is that slavery caused the initial secessionist movement which is wrong, it was the tariffs, NOT SLAVERY in the beginnings of the secessionist movements.

Llpoh
Llpoh

Mygirl – historians disagree almost universally. Even your quote substantiates what I wrote. Primary does not mean exclusively.

And no, the other issues were not of greater importance. A quick search will show you that, and the quote you posted foes as well.

Saying something over and over in the face of overwhelming evidence does not make it any more true.

Mygirl...maybe

There are many causes for strife and war, simplistic and terse answers brush the surface but never the underlying causes which can be legion. The real issue was states rights vs. the federal government. Who determined state autonomy vs. federal control.

‘Yes, slavery was of course the central point of contention, but as an example of state sovereignty versus federal authority. The war was fought over state’s rights and the limits of federal power in a union of states. The perceived threat to state autonomy became an existential one through the specific dispute over slavery. The issue was not slavery per se, but who decided whether slavery was acceptable, local institutions or a distant central government power. That distinction is not one of semantics: this question of local or federal control to permit or prohibit slavery as the country expanded west became increasingly acute in new states, eventually leading to that fateful artillery volley at Fort Sumter. ‘

What I got from the article that most disturbed me wasn’t the Civil War issues, rather it was the parallels to the Great Depression that I see happening at present. I wonder what historians will say when they look back on this time in history? Will they content themselves with surface platitudes and ignore the real causes of what I think will be another Great Depression?

As to slavery vs. tariffs, the causal factor in the southern secession movement was and were the tariffs. I am concerned with what started that entire ball rolling and not content with one blanket slavery statement. ‘ The war was indeed about protecting the institution of slavery, but only as a specific case of a state’s right to declare a federal law null and void. ‘

I think we are talking at cross purposes about a subject that led to a very major war, n’est-ce pas? We are both right. It is a floor wax and a dessert topping..comment image

Llpoh
Llpoh

The primary factor was slavery, and the desire of the north to abolish it, given that a huge proportion of the south relied on slave labor. It was not tariffs, and as I said even the most cursory search willquickly show that the vast majority of historians list slavery as the primary issue for the civil war. You saying otherwise does not change those facts.

For the south slavery was an economic issue, as slaves provided the farm labor that the south required, given ot was an agrarian economy as opposed the the manufacturing economy.

Would you like me to post link after link where slavery is listed as the primary cause of the civil war? Tariffs will appear as a secondary issue, but not as the primary issue. And certainly tariffs, and certainly not the act specified by py, which happened post succession, were not THE cause of the civil war.

Llpoh
Llpoh

And isn’t this fun? Your commentary re the parallels to the Depression are excellent.

None Ya Biz
None Ya Biz

Ah yes, the definitive authorities pushing the approved by the victors slavery narrative. As everyone knows, the victors are the ones that write the approved government history/propaganda. All push the Lincoln man good, the Southern man bad narrative.

If you want to know what started the war against the southern states look no further than Lincoln’s first inaugural address. He as much as stated the states could leave the union as long as they continued to pay tribute to the united States government.

Fort Sumter was custom’s house. A point of tariff collection in the harbor, no one was injured during the artillery barrage. The limited military presence there was allowed to leave the south with their weapons. There were no prisoners taken.

Slavery was an auxiliary issue. Lincoln himself stated he would not change the status of slavery where it already existed. Fact is the issue was collection of revenue for the northern interest. Lincoln was pissed at the loss of a major avenue of tariff collection when the southern states refused to pay the tribute to the united States government. For this affront to his power, he waged a war where 700 thousand plus people were killed. He illegally suspended habeas corpus, swore out a warrant for the arrest of the chief justice of the supreme court for his ruling against Lincoln’s actions and deported a citizen of the united States for railing against the war. Also, Lincoln jailed in excess of 10 thousand individuals for their stance against the war. Closed newspaper and publishing houses that dared to print anything sympathetic to the south. In short, Lincoln was guilty of treason (where treason consist of levying war against the states) and a tyrant. His sole contention at the beginning of hostilities was to make the south pay for their refusal to turn over tribute to the united States government. You can say the main cause was slavery all you want but you are incorrect in that matter.

Mygirl...maybe

Lincoln was probably one of the worst presidents to grace the office, bar none. He placed the Southern states in an untenable position and his conscription of the immigrants straight off the boats to fight in his war was nothing short of crimpin or Shanghaiing since they couldn’t pay the egregious fees required to avoid service. In fact those fees led to the worst riots in the history of the country with shoot-to-kill orders issued by the army.

Martha Derby Perry: Eyewitness to the 1863 New York City Draft Riots

Llpoh
Llpoh

The abject stupidity of the people that vote thumbs around here has reached never before seen depths . It is sad the way revisionists try to fit their narratives into historical records.

Extraveritas
Extraveritas

My friend, you’re behaving just like a Leftist. Resorting to calling names when you appear to be losing a debate. Did it ever occur to you that it is possible you may be wrong? It is possible you have been fed erroneous or incomplete information? I know, from personal experience, how difficult it is to admit one’s own error. We fear not being taken seriously if we admit we’re wrong … and there’s the pride thing, too. I stand ready to listen to your argument and to consider it with an open mind. I’m always willing to change my position based on additional input. However, I will not insult or name call my opponent. And before you accuse me of such based on the first sentence of this reply, I did not call you a Leftist. I merely point out that you are utilizing one of their primary tactics.

Llpoh
Llpoh

Lots of folks disagree. But not a person other than me has posted anything to support their ridiculous claims. Ignorance abounds these days, even on TBP.

Ghost

I am late to debate, but have put Dred Scott on the plate.

Findlaw is a good research tool for people needing to educate themselves on what the law says and how it actually works.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/60/393.html

United States Supreme Court

DRED SCOTT v. SANDFORD(1856)
No. 38
Argued: Decided: December 1, 1856

[60 U.S. 393, 396] THIS case was brought up, by writ of error, from the Circuit Court of the United States for the district of Missouri.

It was an action of trespass vi et armis instituted in the Circuit Court by Scott against Sandford.

Prior to the institution of the present suit, an action was brought by Scott for his freedom in the Circuit Court of St. Louis county, (State court,) where there was a verdict and judgment in his favor. On a writ of error to the Supreme Court of the State, the judgment below was reversed, and the case remanded to the Circuit Court, where it was continued to await the decision of the case now in question.

The declaration of Scott contained three counts: one, that Sandford had assaulted the plaintiff; one, that he had assaulted Harriet Scott, his wife; and one, that he had assaulted Eliza Scott and Lizzie Scott, his children.

Sandford appeared, and filed the following plea:

DRED SCOTT
v.
JOHN F. A. SANDFORD.

Plea to the Jurisdiction of the Court.

APRIL TERM, 1854.

And the said John F. A. Sandford, in his own proper person, comes and says that this court ought not to have or take further cognizance of the action aforesaid, because he says that said cause of action, and each and every of them, (if any such have accrued to the said Dred Scott,) accrued to the said Dred Scott out of the jurisdiction of this court, and exclusively within the jurisdiction of the courts of the State of Missouri, for that, to wit: the said plaintiff, Dred Scott, is not a citizen of the State of Missouri, as alleged in his declaration, because [60 U.S. 393, 397] he is a negro of African descent; his ancestors were of pure African blood, and were brought into this country and sold as negro slaves, and this the said Sandford is ready to verify. Wherefore, he prays judgment whether this court can or will take further cognizance of the action aforesaid.

JOHN F. A. SANDFORD.

To this plea there was a demurrer in the usual form, which was argued in April, 1854, when the court gave judgment that the demurrer should be sustained.

In May, 1854, the defendant, in pursuance of an agreement between counsel, and with the leave of the court, pleaded in bar of the action:

1. Not guilty.

2. That the plaintiff was a negro slave, the lawful property of the defendant, and, as such, the defendant gently laid his hands upon him, and thereby had only restrained him, as the defendant had a right to do.

3. That with respect to the wife and daughters of the plaintiff, in the second and third counts of the declaration mentioned, the defendant had, as to them, only acted in the same manner, and in virtue of the same legal right.

[In a nut? Dred was freed by virtue of his owner moving his family into free territory. Dred Scott lived free with his family, then his owner tried to move him back into Missouri. Dred did not want to go.

Thus, Dred Scott versus Sanford.]

Further proof may be given on the trial for either party.

It is agreed that Dred Scott brought suit for his freedom in the Circuit Court of St. Louis county; that there was a verdict and judgment in his favor; that on a writ of error to the Supreme Court, the judgment below was reversed, and the same remanded to the Circuit Court, where it has been continued to await the decision of this case.

It was an interesting case to study.

Mygirl...maybe

One thing about the internet is how readily one can find articles to support their claims and assertions. I posted my source for one argument in my first post. I had other bibliographies in the post with the floorwax gif. and the gif overwrote them…I am pedantic to a fault BTW…forced academia pre 1980’s did that and I am grateful I got that level of education. Today academia is all about gender studies and hating white people.

The notion that slave labor for cotton fields caused the Civil War has been reinforced by textbooks and fictional narratives for more than a century. Historians, however, argue for a more nuanced, complex understanding. The Civil War was fought for many reasons, not solely or even primarily because of the growing importance of cotton on southern farms. Moving away from economic differences and cotton as simplistic causes leads to a more complex and far more interesting story.
https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/beyond-the-textbook/23912

The cause of the secession was yankee greed. The South was paying three-fourths of the taxes when a new tax went in effect in September of 1860, increasing the amount they paid. These taxes were being used only to help the North. But when the South seceded, most of the North was willing to let them go; therefore, there should have been no war.

When Lincoln found out the South had seceded his first statement was “then where shall we get our revenue?”
https://www.galvnews.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/article_d110fc6c-b360-5a0a-8c26-6670192e9023.html

When I read Professor Thomas DiLorenzo’s article “The Lincoln Myth: Ideological Cornerstone of the American Empire”, the question that leapt to mind was, “How come the South is said to have fought for slavery when the North wasn’t fighting against slavery?”

Two days before Lincoln’s inauguration as the 16th President, Congress, consisting only of the Northern states, passed overwhelmingly on March 2, 1861, the Corwin Amendment that gave constitutional protection to slavery. Lincoln endorsed the amendment in his inaugural address, saying “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2017/08/26/how-we-know-the-so-called-civil-war-was-not-over-slavery/

Mygirl...maybe

Want to discuss the causes of the Great Depression? Smoot-Hawley cemented the depression and the parallels today are Trump’s tariffs with China, et al.
https://www.history.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_860/MTU3ODc4NTk3ODc4MDMxNjg5/image-placeholder-title.webp

llpoh
llpoh

I eviewed that original source. From a non-historian, best I can tell. Who also clearly states ““While the issue of slavery was, in fact, a primary concern for the South”’

Do you red the stuff you post? Because that guy you said was a source to disagree with me, you know, actually point blank agrees with me. Too funny.

Mygirl...maybe

Wikipedia? PBS? Britannica? All mainstream. The victors get to write the history….and be more precise about which reference agrees with you…

llpoh
llpoh

So your first link is to a letter to the editor by some guy named Robert Hart, credentials unknown. Amazing. Yep, that sure is credible.

The second link, to Paul Craig Roberts, is far more credible. Yet that article concentrates more on why the north went to war, and less on why the south seceded. Even PCR says this: “South Carolina saw slavery as the issue being used by the North to violate the sovereignty of states and to further centralize power in Washington.”

The north needed the south economically, while the south needed slavery, which they believed the north was going to take from them.

Mygirl...maybe

Did you catch the first sentence of my comment?

llpoh
llpoh

Don’t try to disrupt a good argument with facts! The entire point is to ignore anything that might interfere with the shitfest.

(Yes I saw the sentence. But I was on a roll.)

Mygirl...maybe

Well,damn son, let us continue…or not. I love having an intelligent fella to spar with.
I’m way more concerned about some disturbing news which, if true, signals some bad mojo….
https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/05/graham-gun-confiscation-red-flag/

TampaRed
TampaRed

i’m getting a bad feeling that the last part of trump’s 2nd term is when we gunowners are going to get it & get it good–
llpoh,what was the stated cause of the 1st gulf war vs the real reason?

Extraveritas
Extraveritas

“It was necessary to put the South at a moral disadvantage by transforming the contest from a war waged against states fighting for their indepdence into a war waged against states fighting for the maintenance and extension of slavery…and the world, it might be hoped, would see it as a moral war, not a political; and the sympathy of nations would begin to run for the North, not for the South.”
Woodrow Wilson

Read: https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/clyde-wilson-library/why-the-war-was-not-about-slavery/

Ghost

I believe the Dred Scott decision by SCOTUS caused an uproar in the Abolitionist Press. There was outrage in Northeastern Hoity Toity Ville, and also, in KANSAS, which was a territory of soon-to-be statehood.

So, LLPOH, I agree. There were a great many maneuverings ongoing in the country in the years leading up to the Civil War and Lincoln, as anyone should realize, was first and foremost from Illinois.

I am a great fan of Lincoln’s, NOT for the great ideals he held (I am not sure he left enough of a body of writings to determine that… while he was a quality orator and debater, I am not sure I’ve seen enough of his personal philosophy (his own words) to judge. However, I read a book ABOUT his childhood, well written/researched, and I learned that the man really did have a passion for reading that would NOT quit. He walked miles and miles to borrow books and return them to people, reading by candlelight.

I admire that.

Lincoln probably did not care one way or another… as you have pointed out many times, slavery was on its way OUT anyway. Mechanized farming was just around the corner and the inefficiencies of slavery were obvious.

Slave Territory versus Free Territory is about all anybody cared about around here, my girl. It is why Missouri was a border state. The Pilot Knob Civil War Reenactment is coming up in September… My cousins participate, but I just watch. It’s really fascinating.

https://civilwaronthewesternborder.org/essay/kansas-territory-election-1860-and-coming-civil-war-national-perspective

States’ rights? Sure. States’ rights to keep slavery as a legal institution.

llpoh
llpoh

Jonathan Clark (whoever he is) said this “While the issue of slavery was, in fact, a primary concern for the South”.

Bwahahahahahahahaha! I iz right again!

Mygirl...maybe

Nope, all quotes and hypotheticals aside, what REALLY started the Civil War was southerners being sick and tired of officious yankees telling them what they could and couldn’t do. It was Yankee bullying that started it. No one wants some other asshole messing in their business, hell, read all the comments here, theme numero uno is don’t fuck with me, leave me alone to get on with my business. Those Yankees then are like liberals and asshole democraps running for office today. Telling folks what to do, demanding and threatening to get them to do it and then taking (stealing) via taxes and tariffs and shit to give to themselves and their cronies. And that’s the truth!!!! ?Dammit! And Lincoln was a murderous rat bastard…

Extraveritas
Extraveritas

“and Lincoln was a murderous rat bastard …” God bless you for knowing the truth!

Anonymous
Anonymous

IIpoh … Read The Real Lincoln by Thomas DiLorenzo before you go on the attack. Oh, and did you know that General Grant wrote to the War Department, “If I thought for one moment that this war is being fought to free the slaves , I’d draw my sword for the other side.”? And of course you can’t have missed that Lincoln agreed to accept slavery “in perpetuity” to maintain the Union. These facts and many more are available to anyone willing to go beyond the government school history books which are, in and of themselves, revisionist in that they spin history to the benefit of the victor.

Robert Gore

That was a good article, I just posted it. I anxiously await Part 2.

Uncola

Forget Howard Zinn’s “A People’s History of the United States” – I’ll go with Quinn’s geographically expanded version. Looking forward to the next installment

ursel doran
ursel doran

Your ability to connect the dots, and express it so well is absolutely genius level, IMHO. Thanks for all the superb work Sir.

credit
credit

good chance that Trump is strategically maxing out the country’s credit cards in his first term. if he wins again, he has a free hand to reorganize the debt (post spending splurge), and if he loses, the mess is left for a democrat.

Anonymous
Anonymous

this is exactly what obama did, so, your point is, that all politicians are evil, and we should hang them all from lamposts.

The only recourse is to pass a law that only allows for single term, and make politics a civic duty, akin to jury duty or draft/military service, so that no politician can have a career, as it is obvious they all come in with great ideas, and get corrupted within the first year.

oh, and also, only people born in this country are allowed to serve.

Mary Christine

Admin, thank you for keeping this place a beacon of free speech. I am happy to contribute to keeping it that way as long as possible. If we were made of money, we would throw more at ya.

I look forward to part 2.

Btw, this was up at Quayles site first thing this morning. Over at Dollar Collapse your essay is posted in the “Best of the Web” section.

ursel doran
ursel doran

The Delusion in the youngsters running the money around the world is the Central Banksters will guarantee no serious devaluation of Equities with their manipulation of interest rates, and other machinations. The delusion is revealed again in this article of interest.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-05/real-reason-us-central-bankers-cannot-raise-interest-rates-rest-2019

ottomatik
ottomatik

If I were allowed but 1 author to subsist on, it would be Quinn.
Never to disappoint, always to inform, your journalism has added immense value to my life and I will always be thankful.
And there is truly no other place on earth compared to the Platform, to enjoy journalism as it was meant to be enjoyed.

Mustang
Mustang

Get out of debt people and stop wasting your hard-earned money!!!!!!

Stucky

“In Part Two of this article I’ll ponder how the coming years will play out, ..”

Please write something about Social Security. How long till it really goes belly up? I wanna know if I should take it now, or wait another 5 years until I’m 70 (and it’s about 40% higher). TIA.

Mygirl...maybe

Grab it now….

mark
mark

Stucky,

I agree, five years from now, the way we are headed, there will be a different world…plus I don’t think the dollar will still have reserve currency status by then.

Take it now at say $2,000.00 a month x 5 years = $120,000.00.

Start collecting ASAP and put as much of it as you can into hard assets.

It will be interesting to see what Admin thinks and predicts.

Just my two American Eagles.

Ghost

My husband took his ASAP. He looked into it and said he was grabbing while the grabbing was good.

Seriously, there’s a calculator on the web that will tell you, in fiat dollar amount, how much you would profit by waiting. It didn’t seem worth it, but when my Nick is 84 (that is when the break even point is supposed to be), I’ll tell you if we regret it.

That is, Stucky, if you aren’t hunkered down at my pond eating bullfrog legs.

And, by the way? I’m a full five years younger than my Nick.

Mygirl...maybe

Why, ya’ll is just whippersnappers, lil’bitty grasshoppers. I’m not venturing my age, but the earth was finally cooling when I was born:)

TampaRed
TampaRed

stucky,imo if world events don’t interfere too much the fed will be able to print enough to kick the can indefinitely–

mark
mark

Tampa…I never realized what a man of FAITH you are!

This everything bubble must be different? (snarky marky)

Iconoclast421

Once again I called this one on my gab. Homerun after homerun. I’ve nailed every major move since may.

Montefrio

I’m not a believer in cyclical history, but if anyone were to be able to persuade me, it’d be Mr. Q., (NOT “Q”!). Once again he’s written a very readable essay on topics that too often are made abstruse. The material flows smoothly, is intelligently analyzed and presented… It’s a hell of a good essay worthy of wide readership. Kudos with the oak leaf cluster, Mr. Q.!

r
r

OK, so what was the conclusion? What are we suppose to take from some sophomoric history everyone already knows? There were certainly no new insights. No new prescriptions, so what am I suppose to do with this other than make a contribution to send you back to school? As for your warning to emigrate before it’s too late. Once again I’ll bite. Where would you have me emigrate to, Belize?

Ghost

Or Timbuktu.

Josh
Josh

The problem with “turnings” is the existence of central banks and their owners. The central banks recognise no “turnings” and can and do manipulate currency to their will, they proved it in every bank run and collapse so far.

D J
D J

You’ve got this 4th Turning all wrong. The 4th Turning is always won in the image of the Civic Generation. That is the Millenials. Trump and the autocratic oligarchy he represents is the flashpoint which the Millenials are rejecting and replacing with an economy that works for the average person.

Just like FDR did last time but this time with civil rights, tolerance, and equality.

The old folks who read this site and fume with Trumpian rage will hate this message but if you know your Strauss-Howe, you know the Millenials own the future of America.

Bye, bye Boomers.

Mygirl...maybe

Millenials? Those who cannot operate a can opener or sew on a button or boil water? Psst. Just so you know, everybody dies, each generation is succeeded by another and it all rolls along endlessly, just like how shark’s teeth roll forward when a tooth is lost….

mark
mark
TS

You’re funny. Do some more.

mark
mark

Ok TS…this is funny and even DJ will like it!

THE ARK-HIVE PROJECT

Rounding 3rd and heading for home plate.

TS

Wow, Admin. Read it through this am and then again just now. And then the comments.
Impressive research and dot-connecting.
What impresses me most of all, as excellent as this essay is, is the readers here. An article such as this, presented with this much depth and analysis, would daunt many people. And yet here we are with a whole trove of people who not only read the whole thing, but have something of relevance to say. Well, most the time. Some of these side-threads…
Over to Part Two.
Maybe I’ll comment tonight, maybe not. I might have to let that one simmer for a bit, too.

ordo ab chao
ordo ab chao

“The election of Donald Trump over the hand-picked candidate of the oligarchy,…..”

Change to:

“The Selection of Donald Trump AS the hand-picked candidate of the oligarchy,….”

There, I fixed it for me….now I’m happy

annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum- founded to return to the days when gods co-mingled with men.

Extraveritas
Extraveritas

The author’s mention of an economic component to the War Between the States (Civil War) was largely misdirected as is the ‘commonly understood’ reason for the war being slavery. If one reads the words of Lincoln and Grant, if one reads The Real Lincoln by Thomas J. DiLorenzo, one will quickly learn that the Southern states seceded over the issue of unfair tariffs and that the cause of the war was the invasion of the South by Northern Armies. Slavery was only an issue with the Northern abolitionists and the Southern fire-breathers. The institution, itself, was never in danger at that point. Lincoln said so. Slavery as ‘the cause’ was only invented after the war to justify the unconstitutional actions of the victor. Don’t just believe me, do your own research.

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